Islam vs. Islam

Indeed a very good analysis.
The only way left for the right minded people now is to shun silence and indifference and pay these b******s in the same coins. I do not think any other measure will restrain these illiterate beasts. They chop off heads, people do the same to them.
When people start eliminating and bombing off madressas and breeding grounds for Islamic terror, these people will immediately realize that now the real business has started. If the lawmakers, politicians, army and the administration cannot do it, it has to be done by the people.

Thats brilliant and again spot on!!!!
Though I dont think that soul searching has begun in Muslims. We are just digging up new conspiracy theories for psuedo justification of our state of denial.

This is not an apology for what Muslim-people do.
My name sake has committed the same mistake which he attributes to the Swati minister. The author accuses the minister, and quite rightly so, for not giving any proof for his statements.
Yet the writer himself makes statements about ‘Islam’ without giving any reference from the source book, the Quran. As an example the following quote:
“Yes. Flogging a girl in public is Islam and those flogging the girl believed that they were the most pious and the holiest of the holy Muslims�.

Flogging of adulterer and adulteress is indeed allowed. But in the context of the Book this is a State function, that is. The courts/ justice system are responsible to punish the culprits, BOTH MAN AND WOMAN and according to the given procedures, that is, with credible witnesses etc. Incredible witnesses are to be punished accordingly.(eg 24: 2 on wards)

Hence it is NOT a Church’s function or that of the ‘piety brigade’ to carry them out—-akin to say Sati, preventing a widow from remarrying, burning daughters-in-laws for not bringing in more wealth or ‘stoning’ as in other religions and primitive societies, even though it may not be practiced today, (as it is claimed in some quarters)!

The important issue here is to point out that what some ‘Muslim people do’ under the canopy of their church, their Religion, culture or societal norms is NOT Quranic.
Taliban (or Tele-ban) are people too, though illiterate and brain washed by their clergy.

In order to justify them the illiterate clergy attribute them to Islam, a Code and not a RELIGION as it is claimed.

The code is only given in Quran and NOT in the apocrypha—peripheral documents of doubtful authenticity 45-6). (of all religions)
It is not “defending� this graring anomaly in any shape or form when high lighting this point to the enlightened readership.
Rashid

Re: # 29
Well, Sanatani, for one thing the war record and the human rights organizations working in the ME can provide some details. Newspapers clippings, video footage, internet archives, documentaries. Probably a visit to the occupied territories may help you realize just how many families have lost their members to Israeli brutalisation. Common sense and some open eyes. Remember this is going on for the last 60 years..and still counting.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

Rashid, a very good article and certainly what we all need nowadays. However, I feel you have fallen into the same trap of wanting a revolutionary change right away in not only our attitudes but the entire structure itself. Like wanting Pakistan State to take out the word Islamic from its masthead? Isn't that a bit too much? Something like asking all the countries of the world to erase their cultural nomenclatures and identifiers in order to embrace universal brotherhood and humanity. And while we are at it, why not insist upon Israel to wipe off the Star of David from its flag? Afterall they are about a religious ideology as well and, Lord knows, have killed more people than the Taliban. While no one is advocating that the Taliban be allowed to go scot free, no one in their right mind would want to jump starightaway onto a Turkish model. Accepting tolerant diversity and being sensitive to others even, and especially, when thay have a different view point can alone bring about the mild change that you so very fittingly emphasised.

Rashid malik:
"..The first time in history, a real soul-searching has begun among Muslims around the world....". I hope this is true and is badly needed.
Congrats. for your bold writing.
kamath

Re: # 21
catchy....
yeh, that everybody else ( non muslas) is experiencing.....btw, is Islam saving your a** from hellfire missiles or it is more islam, the more missiles?......
here is the beakon of light of islamic nations ( Pakistan) is doing....asking 10bn US$ to contain islamic menace....
you may be right in one account....islam is definitely saving Pakistani economics....

#20 Posted by Cachy on April 8, 2009 9:46:00 am

"swat flogging falls under Ignorance of islamic rules."

Is there any punishment prescribed for the above vulgarity? If yes, is that to be meted out only after or on the day of qayamat? If yes, could not have the punishment meted out to the hapless girl waited for the same day?

Also, as per your infallible user manual, who has given the authority to ignorant momeen to deal with the case in the way as he understood islaam? Why is he not being declared an infidel for his failure to understand the 'right islaam?

I would not wish it to happen. But only the time when you will understand that it is wrong is if you have a daughter and she faces the same situation and cries for help and you stand like one of those ball-less elders in swat.

What a shame! Either your religion is wrong or the practitioners of that relegion are wrong and yet they go scot free when the likes of cachy are busy defending their religions without saying a word about the delinquents.

Re: # 21

Catchy .. you have opened my eyes .... I always knew that Quran is the right way ....
Now I know why JAPAN is chaotic (put favourite non-katwa society here)
and Afghanistan/pakistan/ (put favorite katwa society here).
are not chaotic.

#21- It doesn't look like it, but please yourself.

Re: # 21

I'd like to believe that as we evolve, learn and discover more about ourselves and the world around us, we use the wisdom of the people who came before us and try to adapt their findings to our times. To claim that our search for spirituality should have ended some 1300 years ago because the entire truth was somehow revealed once at that time is galactically stupid.

Re: # 18

islam is a product without any expiry date. this is the final manual for mankind and any deviation from it will bring chaos and all chaos can be resolved by following it.

Quran is a savior of mankind until end. All other methods to operate this product will fail.

Re: # 9

nb - flogging is a islamic punishment for adultery by unmarried male and female. there are certian conditions for awarding this punishment and a set way for executing this punishment. If not followed accordingly, then it could be called non-islamic punishment.

swat flogging falls under Ignorance of islamic rules.

Re: # 11

harish - the Manual is quite simple and "complexity" is not a valid excuse for being ignorant.

#7, your opinion and feelings are shared by many but there does not seem to be an urgency or resolve to fight it. Pakistan military killed hundreds of intellectuals in Dacca, in cold-blood, just before surrendering to the Indians and mounted a nine month campaign against the Bengalis killing, raping and robbing, but when it comes to Taliban, they claim sensitivity for collateral damages.
#8 Sanatani is right about the Sikh religion, but the point is to get off the high horse of self righteousness and reasonably accept individual responsibility. The creed of reason could take us farther than all religions and individual responsibility could ensure a peaceful living.
#5, the manual applied to the models in 700AD, Arabia, and it did not take long for the manual to come up short for the
later models. The rationalists were branded Moatizala and casted out of the fold of Islam.