Unquestionable Changes?

Does any one remember another kind of ``Sehra``, I am talking re: the poem that used to be read on the occasion of nikah . It was becoming extinct even in the days when it`s flower and foil namesake was alive and well. Another casualty of the times I suppose.

Re: the article, Hmmm....I think temporal has said it quite well.

Amit #25

I couldn`t agree more about ``no one in the Indian subcontinent had any notion of the big picture`` part that you alluded to. True, India didn`t even need to build a wall because of the mountains. But look what good the wall did the Chinese? It took them over three centuries to complete the damn thing and when the time came it didn`t work because the gate keepers were bribed. While the Chinese were focused on construction, somebody in the ministry of finance must have forgotten to give the guards a pay-raise. The poor guards had families to feed so they were easily bribed by the invading mongols to open the gates. What a joke. Ten generations of labor for nothing. (Well, maybe it created jobs and stimulated the economy.)

My point is, yes, the Indians were disorganized and lacked strategic cohesion, but lets not give the Chinese undue credit for the wall. It is a feat of construction and thats all. It did less to enhance military security than the Taj Mahal did to enhance the cause of love.

...SR

SameerJB #19

Essentially, we agree. Since my personal life does not afford me the time to engage in serious interactions these days, I can only tread on the lighter side when I interact at all. So my earlier message was a toungue-in-cheek jib to your more sober comment about `foreign decoits` that have ravaged the sub-continent.

You see it the way it is. All invaders (whether they came from the mountain passes of the north-west, the sea shores of Makran or sailed around the globe to the Bay of Bengal) are the same to you, and I simply wanted to nod in agreement. It is customary in the Pakistani populist culture to make heroes out of some gold-stealers and beast-molesters, because they had arabic sounding names, or because they ``mooned`` the sky five times a day. Your comment was a refreshing break from that narrow view.

It seems that we view all events through the lens of our bias. The Arab invasion and subjugation of the Iberian peninsula and the European incursion into the Indian subcontinent a thousand years later share some remarkable parallels. Both are examples of brilliant political and military success by a small number of invaders who ultimately prevailed over much larger numbers of fragmented, in-fighting and disorganized local populations. Yet, we aggrandize the one while decrying the other. You, very aptly, pointed out this inconsistency.

Also, thanks for the illuminating historical notes along the way.

...SR

SameerJB #7

[“…This is what happens when you fail to defend your land and people … They impose their values and culture forcefully and in few hundred years down the road, Punjabi will fondly name their children after the homosexuals like Sikander (Alexander) and Babar and after thugs like Mahmud Ghaznavi and Ahmad Shah Abdali. To hell with any kind of slavishness be it western or Turkic-Afghan barbarism.

The Punjabis fought and died against Turkic-Afghan barbarism and now they are fighting and dying for it.

Stop this stupidity and keep talking about sehra, moustaches, bhangra and tehmed. At least none of these thing will kill you…”]

A person after my own heart. You forgot to mention that Arab maurader, bin-Qasim. He did reach Punjab from the south. Babur, Ghaznavi and Abdali were mere passers by who stopped for re-fueling, checked their maps, asked for fresh directions and moved on. The Punjabis have always been good about lining up along GT road, flower garlands and ladoo, barfee in hand, displaying cardboard signs with an arrow pointing to the east and the caption saying “Panipat this way”.

...SR

..................HAIN AUR BHI GHAM ZAMANAY MAIN ..........

This is becoming an annual tradition of sorts.

I can take this only so much and then I have to speak up and let the gentle folks known collectively as the Chowk Staff know that they have finally woken me up from my slumber. (E’gawd. do they try hard?)

Since this has therapeutic values for me as well, please bear with me. (Am tempted to send a copy of this to Aliya @ your shifa clinic as well.)

Beef: Seeing more than one contribution by the same author on page 1.

Solution: Avoid it. If certain situations demand it, yank the old piece out of page 1. Send it to the ChowkMorgue underneath page 1 where we can go anytime to offer ‘fatehas’ and lay wreaths!

Beef: Check the headings and teasers for faux pas on page 1 at the least. (Like the Amir Khusrau AUTOBIOGRAPHY or MILLENNIUM and SADI more recently).

Solution: Set up a commission by a person no less than a retired Supreme Court Justice, or under exceptional circumstances, a retired High Court Justice, to enquire into this and recommend some quick fixes. Perhaps, an Executive Senior Vice President for Page 1? In addition to ceremonial robes, she should have the password to enter the guarded premises and quickly changes the offending words.

Beef: Creative HaraKiri: CRICKET REPORTS AND THEIR EFFECTS ON SUICIDE RATE.

Solution: Have one Cricket header on Page 1, say WIAGARA CUP, DownUnder.
The by line or the ‘teaser’ should indicate the last match covered. Each subsequent match analysis should be ADDED to the same article.

Alternatively, if interest merits it, add Cricket Analysis under FEATURED writings or under FAVORITES or in the yellow bar (that says chowk@two) or in one of the four slots above it.

Driven by a creative death wish that is uncontrollable, AND in the interest of peace, prosperity and harmony in the world, particularly in Kashmir, in the madresas, between India and Pakistan, in our homes, particularly in the rooms used for horizontal recreation, in Checheniya and other trouble spots, where real men are fighting dumbos (thank you, Hoodbhoy) I will be posting this interact thrice. Beginning with the most current article on IMF by Zeemax and continuing with the next two articles. So help me God. (This last bit was an appeal, not a cliche! A dear friend is planning her wedding fall of 2001. She has ordered my presence at the wedding. And since skeletons can come out of the closet but are not known to walk........)

regards

t

PS Mofeez you do not come through as shoot-the-messenger type. But just in case.....I’ll hedge the bets and tell you that I occasionally do enjoy your comments. (the emphasis is on the 12 letter word in the previous sentence.) But too much of everything is........

PPS Zeemax: same as above.

(and if you don`t mind a ``commercial`` plug...)

PPPS: My latest creative effort is posted on my page here, under ``FINAL``
http://www.chowk.com/people/Tools/cc_printhome.cgi?temporal

Sobia:

Since you are twenty years old and this is your first effort here, I would welcome you at
Chowk. Your musings (essay?) are light hearted and devoid of any serious intellectual misgivings. Full marks for that.

Since you are in Mass Communications, I have to to point out a couple of obvious things.

1: Use paragraphs to break and marshall the thoughts.

2: Read English (literature) as much as you can and notice how writers use words. Proper word usage goes a long way in cummunicating a writer`s thought to the reader.

Good luck, and please don`t mind my next posting in these interacts; have to post it for its therapeutic effects.

rgds

t

Re:SameerJB#19

You wrote: {The irony is during all of Babar`s, Abdali`s and Ghaznavi`s attacks on the Indus valley, no force from, let`s say, Ganges valley ever came to assist. Instaed they waited for their turn at the hands of mauraders.}

You have hit the nail on the head. Throughout history, the subcontinent saw hordes of invaders attacking from the north west. You would think that after a while, our desi ancestors would be able to detect a pattern. Fat chance !! Compare that with China, where the Chinese built a wall to keep away invaders. We did not even need a wall, we had massive mountain ranges and we needed to protect a few mountain passes. Apparently that was a big deal to ask for, because there was never any attempt to build any sort of security structure in north west India.

Instead of uniting against an invader, we had the dubious distinction of collaborating with them as much as possible. Everybody knows that Ghori was able to beat Prithiviraj Chauhan because Prithviraj`s father-in-law Raja Jaichand was collaborating with Ghori. He had a score to settle with his son-in-law and therefore, he did not care that Ghori was an invader. Once Ghori finished Prithviraj, he also took care of Raja Jaichand. Similarly, some hindu kings advised Ghaznavi to loot the Somnath temple because they wanted to cut down to size their fellow hindu king who had Somnath in his territory and prospered from the rich temple. There were isolated pockets of resistance like the Rajputs of Mewar and Sikhs, but their focus was on protecting their own territory. No one in the Indian subcontinet cared about the big picture.

Given the above history, it is no wonder that Pakistanis mock Indian attempts to call for Akhand Bharath. When you don`t care about someone for millenia, you cannot expect them to care about you or feel kinship with you. India`s history for the past 1000 years is one of shame and dishonour that will take another 1000 years to redeem.

It is funny to see the RSS or Sangh Parivar lash out against muslims. Where were their ancestors when muslims invaded and conquered India ? They were busy with wine, women and song. Alternatively they were busy conspiring and fighting against each other. You see the same today in India where you can barely form a stable government, given the backbiting and fighting between various coalitions. The Congress cannot even appoint a desi president and shamelessly worships the Italian Sonia Gandhi.

farangi_kush:

Kindly define ``cultural frontiers``.

Thanks

PM and Sameer,

Apologies, I jumped the gun. My mistake. Next time I`ll re-read what I write. Nonetheless, PM: I never knew I could be ``subtle``. Thank you. An undeserving compliment.

Patrick: I went to your article and browsed through it. Seemed to be quite on track. I`ll print it out and have a good read of it later; and I`ll post my reply on the article site. But before that: Have you read any Gore Vidal (my current idol)? If not, get your hands on his essays. I`m sure you`ll find him very interesting.

Sobia: Apologies for mucking about with the replies.

Rafay

Lahore, a strong hold of BJP (Basant Jollities of the Punjabis)

From e.Khaleejtimes

Basant celebrations in Lahore

From our correspondent

LAHORE - Lahore turned into a city of colour and light as it started celebrating the annual Basant (spring) festival last night. The festival will conclude late tonight. The festival is being celebrated this time with full government patronage. A large number of people from other parts of the country and overseas Pakistanis are in Lahore to celebrate the cultural festival. Inside the Walled City and elsewhere, shopkeepers selling kites and string have been doing a roaring business for some days as people prepared for the celebration. On offer all over the city, and almost round the clock, are traditional spicy snacks of Lahore and the wholesome food the Punjab capital is famous for. Lahore Electric Supply Corporation (Lesco) has made elaborate arrangements to ensure an uninterrupted power supply during the festivities. The corporation`s Chief Executive, Brigadier Tariq Arshad, directed all line and field staff to remain on duty yesterday and today to attend to complaints regarding power interruptions. Today (Sunday) will be a working day at Lesco with staff directed to closely monitor the power supply position. The Services Hospital administration has cancelled holidays of its staff and deputed additional personnel in the casuality ward to handle emergencies. NNI adds: It is estimated that Lahore`s four million residents will spend over Rs1 billion during festivities. It was expected that around 400,000 visitors would participate in the festivities. Kites and twine alone will account for about Rs800 million, with travel generating another Rs200 million. Hotels having an average room occupancy of 35-40 per cent had already been booked to capacity for yesterday and today. A five-star hotel is said to have earned Rs2 million for renting out its rooftop to various corporate bodies. The 60 per cent increase in occupancy means an additional Rs5 million for the city`s hotels.

From e.Nation

Millennium`s first Basant night celebrated

LAHOREùThe new millenniumÆs first Basant night was celebrated in the City between 19th and 20th of February with full enthusiasm and fervour. The night scene of the City was worth watching as the sky was studded with white kites and illuminated houses with decoratory and search lights. The kite-flyers were upbraided by the popular songs at the decks with their volume touching the highest.

Before the festivity it was perceived that the Walled City would lead in respect of Basant festivity but it was seen on the night that the whole City was under a spell of the festival. Almost all the residential areas of the City, whether they were of the Walled City or the posh areas, were seen with a formidable gathering of young boys and girls who were raising slogans of ôbu kata, bu kataö amidst search lights and loud music.

Some houses were decorated in such a manner as if there was going to be a wedding party. Food arrangements were made on rooftops and the participants were served with snacks. The hotels presented picturesque scenes on their rooftops with live musical bands and dance parties. The kite-flyers were enjoying every moment of the night which was turned into day with search lights turned on. Prominent personalities of the City, foreigners and, showbiz celebrities had come to grace the occasions and participated in the official celebration of the Lahorites which has gained world wide popularity as a cultural festival of the City in particular and for the Punjabis in general. The interior æcityÆ which is associated with the festivity this time too, was up to the mark and the enthusiasm of the Lahorites of these areas has worth-seeing. They were dancing with joy and singing with fervour. The Sheranwala Gate, Delhi Darwaza, Masti gate, Taxali Gate and Mochi Gate were the hub of the Basant activities.

Some organisations had arranged musical evenings in the Walled City where leading singers of the country were invited to perform and entertain the audience. Abrarul Haq, Fareeha Pervez, Humaira Arshad, Naseebo Lal and others performed at various places in the City. The Race Course Park was the main open spot in the city after Minar-e-Pakistan. However, it was pertinent to say that the air was not suitable for flying kites, so the people were flying their kites with a great difficultly.

Most of the families in the Walled City had invited their near and dear ones. The Haveli of Dhrain Singh was jam packed with guests from the posh areas of the City to attend a musical evening here. The Basant show at a local hotel also attracted Basant lovers in big number. The rush was so great that the show was disturbed and later suspended. The Sri Lankan cricket team was also invited to this function. But the Sri Lankan team that white-washed Pakistan, in one-day series, could not beat the rush to reach the rooftop. The PTV World held Jashne Bahar musical show at a local hotel which was conducted by Moin Akhtar and Aysha Sana. Abrar ul Haq, Hadiqa Kiani, Shahida Mini,Nirma and Shahzad Roy performed on the occasion.

A large number of multinationals and national corporates had hired the rooftops of five-star hotels to hold their functions. One such function was held at the Pearl-Continental by a multinational company. A large number of people including politicians attended this function.

The influence of LT (Lashar-e-Toiyba---NOT, Lahori Traditions---YES) on the rise?

From e.Nation

Lahorites all set for Basant festivities



LAHORE-The preparations for celebrating the Basant in the City are in final stage. Be it the walled city or posh areas, Basant preparations seem to be the most popular activity these days especially for the young generation.

The Basant festival in Lahore has become so popular that it is attracting visitors from other areas of the country. The situation in the walled city is more interesting as there is not much room for the guests that are expected to crowd there. The Haveli of Mian Sali, Raja Dhian Singh and the Shahi Hamam are likely to be the main places attracting visitors. The Haveli of Mian Sali has been a source of entertainment for long and this year too it is going to provide with utmost enjoyment of which the people are usually deprived of. The Basant programmes at the Haveli Dhian Singh are organised by the Tourism Development Department, Punjab, which include the musical evenings, kite-flying and other entertainments. The music shows at Ali Park adjacent to the Lahore Fort provide the Lahorites an accessible entertainment as popular singers like Abrarul Haq, Waris Baig and Arif Lohar and others have so far enthralled the public.

The preparations in other parts of the city are also in full swing. A brief survey of Samanabad shows that over 80 per cent of families have plans to celebrate the festivity with full enthusiasm.

Most of the residents have plans to celebrate the festivity by going out to their relatives and friends in the walled city and celebrate the Basant over there.

Basant festivity in Iqbal Town will be worth watching. The rooftops of the Nargis Block, Kamran Block and Neelam Block indicate the Basant extravaganza which seems to be surpassing other areas of the city in celebrating the event. The shopping centres give a peculiar pictures of yellow dresses, Basanti dupattas, kites, strings, etc. The girls will wear yellow clothes on the occasion. The boys have bought kites, strings, bajas and other articles.

Rauf, a student told that they would celebrate the Basant at home and for the purpose they had bought kites, strings and balloons in a large quantity. Maryam, another student told that they would even cook their meals on their roofs on the day so that they might not miss a chance to see the kite - studded sky, Irum said that they would put on yellow dress on the day and enjoy every moment of the colourful festivity. The Basant day in Faisal Town, Garden Town, Johar Town, Gulberg and Defence will be celebrated with interests, but these areas will not be the hub of Basant festivity. It is also found that the residents of these areas, who are interested in the festivity will go to the walled city, which holds the maximum spirit of the festivity.

The educational institutions have also not lagged behind in celebrating the event. Thanks to the patronising of the government that Basant has become a part of the celebrations of the private educational institutions as a large number of institutions have plans to celebrate the festivity in their institutions.

The Basant fervour has done a great good to the street performers and Jhoomar parties as they already have good bookings to provide the people with fun and entertainment. The kite looters will also have an opportunity to grab the kites with the long sticks and ghantis.

Basant is going to be held on 20th of February, but the festival has its negative aspects too. The losses it causes to the economy of the country are yet to be assessed but one thing is accepted that the people celebrating the festivity should refrain from using metal wire or chemical strings and instead use the thread strings which are easily available. The metal strings may create serous problems by causing frequent power disruptions and risking precious lives.

Dear Rafay:

Now either I`m not picking up your subtlety or you

really are casting Sameer among the unenlightened,

unkinowing farangi-haters. I think Sameer`s post

(#7) was an example of complete irony. You can

expect him to be well aware of the extent of true

sexual liberation in the East for millenia before

we started buying into (Judeo-Christian) Western

morality.

Guys, you both might find my only other article

(search by Author-Name = ``Patrick``) on the chowk

of some interest.

regards,

Pat

DearSobia,

I won`t apoligize for using your board, because I

think this ties well into the issue of

``Unquestionable Changes?``

best regards,

Pat

==

To SammerJB (and Rafay_Alam)

Sameerji,

``I am sorry if my choice of words have hurt you

sensivities.``

Lighten up, will ya! My tongue was firmly placed

in cheek writing that reply. If there were little

jabs in there, they were directed at the likes of

the NGLTF who for the sake of PC and to win

mainstream accomodation, dishonestly distance

themelves from their legitimate history. That

wouldn`t be so bad a thing if not for the fact

that in doing so, they are cutting off their vital

cultural lifeline. The Love of the Boy, while

resulting in some instances of intitutionalized

exploitation, often defined and shaped the very

epitome of high culture and art through the ages

-- be it through Arab or Greek poetry, Greco-Roman

and Renassaince sculpture (remember `David`?),

Shakespear`s sonnets (I`ve heard we can throw in

Ghalib and Mir here, thoughI haven`t rea them

myself!), or Tchaivosky`s and Schubert`s opuses

(inspired by, and dedicated to their boy-loves).

For most present-day Western gays & lesbians, the

desire to be mainstreamed (``look-ee, we`re just

like you!``) has caused them to reject this part of

their heritage in the most denunciatory terms.

The NGLTF, not the Far Right, is the boylovers`

Enemy #1.

If I did take offence at all, Sameer, it was in

your doubting my seriousness on the issue. You

said: ``Are you really......or just kidding!!``.

Were you referring to my attitude in the article

or my last posts?

equally respectfully (but le`s stop this mushiness

now, okay!? :)),

Patrick

PS. Sameer, if your re-read my post (#35), you

will see that my question regarding

minority-treatment was not directed at you but at

`y1h`. That post wasn`t sent to this board,

anyway -- chowkstaff can be excused for the

mix-up, given the flood of replies coming in on

other boards. If you`d like to contact me

personally, write to postmatser@yahoo.com (please

note the spelling

To Whom it may Concern

I am in a tough spot. I have run into a baddtameez fellow in an exchange on the ``He had no Choice``, board (#1162-64). I can ``take care of his post`` myself, but I am afraid that in doing so, I may have to turn to a higher degree of `uncivility` than is acceptable to me.

Please help. Anybody, from Right, Left, Centre, or from out of the perihery and parameter. Column Masters: Please do not mind my post on your board.

Sincerely,

Shahzad C

The GLTB - whatever - through PM: Thanks for letting me in on SameerJB`s fear that our ``love`` for for the West will somehow translate to, horror of horrors, homosexual onsloughts.

In this and age it is rare to find a real bigot. How unusal. Someone should perform tests.

A man, much wiser than myself, one asked me who taught me how to procreate. Of course he wasn`t interested in how the Webster`s Student Dictionary was a revelation to a fourteen year- old. What the wise man was hammering on about was that it wasn`t the barbarian Westerners who taught us about the birds and bees. In fact, it turns out we were boozing and whoring - both homo and heterosexual boozing and whoring - long before the barbaric hordes of the West got in on the action. If SameerJB, for some strange reason, attributes ``the homosexual onslaught`` to Those Magnificent Men Alexander and Baber, then he is wrong. He need not cast his gaze Westward to find homosexuals, he merely need look the other direction: The East.

I`m off to get some more ammo on this topic.

Rafay

Dear Patrick: Thanks for a belated response. You are right about Alexander and Babar being pederastics(?) than homosexuals. My dislikeness of these two individuals has more to do with their unnecessary penetration into India than their favorite pastime and moreover, it was in response to a post by F_K where he commented about Punjabis. I am sorry if my choice of words have hurt you sensivities. I have read your article ``boylove`` recently and it was very informative. Are you really......or just kidding!!

I am not sure which of your post was referred to me and I did not respond. If you can please remind me, I will be glad to replly. It is one of my weakness to stay with one issue for a shorter period than I should have. I believe near Christmas time last year, I commented about my dislikeness of organized Islamic and Christian conversions in India and Africa and Organized Christian conversions in east asia because I think it disturbs the communal peace and tranquility of the existing major belief system in those areas. This, however, absolutely does not mean for me to dislike any minority individuals. Deep down if you keep breaking down any society into sub-roups and sub sub-groups, everybody is a minority. On the contrary, I am a strong supporter of diversity of not just humans but also of flora and fauna, both here in the US as well as in Pakistan. It enriches the culture and society. I actually wish there were more Christians, Hindus, Sikhs and Parsees in Pakistan than at present but not through organized conversions. This time, my serious apologies, if you feel being treated as ``a less than equal`` by me. I hope others feel the same way too.

Respectfully,

Sameer