Lucky

Bina #12:

Besides being invited to participate here (#9 below) you are being modest (Can I participate, even though I`m not a literary mind?) If you are not a literary mind then what is there in your web pages?

I have been to two less workshops.

When I incidentally gave Jhumpa Lahiri’s workshop example, in parenthesis, I was emphasizing we must never stop learning. I think it was Ghalib who used the word ‘saiql’ – in English it would be perhaps ‘burnishing’ --- sort of continuous process of honing the skills till it becomes second nature.

Yes, it is all marketing and contacts. The publishing climate is favourable for South Asians (and other third world writers) because their exotic ethnicity is the in thing.

And then you say, “And I guess that brings me to another point: that would we write only if there was hope of being published or would we do it even if our work would never see the light of the printing press?”

Without being modest, let me acknowledge I consider myself a creative person who will fit in this category. Whether I am great, average or mediocre we will never find out. Why? Because I do not submit my efforts. And because they are not published, the reader will not vote with their cash or charge cards. I write because there is an urge. I enjoy the process. I share it with a few friends. And then it is buried in the hard drive. As long as I can quell the creative rages and fires I will write but not submit it to a publishing house. A little off the beaten track, I know, but true. Don’t know if it helps your query, but that’s me.

Lve

t

PS: Jonty: in #9 I made a slip. Should have said ‘half empty’.Since it is important thought I’d mention it.

Can I participate, even though I`m not a literary mind?

I`ve been to two writing classes in my life: Creative Writing, in eleventh grade, and Advanced Poetry, in college. No high powered workshops held by famous writer who can get me contacts into the New York/London literary scene. I suppose that`s why no one will ever review my books for the New York Times!!! (never say never though).

Not having been to a workshop, I`m not qualified to comment on their usefulness. But I find that some prose is labored and overwrought and just has that ``workshop`` feel. Some parts of Moth Smoke, case in point. I do believe that you can kill something by working too hard on it. Yes, writing and rewriting is part of the formula, but just like meat that gets too tough when you overcook it, the same thing tends to happen to one`s writing! The freshness can die.

But I do agree that these days, it`s all contacts and marketing and who you know and who you don`t. If a publishing company decides to take you on (And they usually won`t unless you have a literary agent that kicks ass), then they`ll go all out for you in terms of marketing etc. Otherwise, it`s obscurity for you. Kind of hard when you`re working on that novel to think that it may never find a home but you still have to try.

And I guess that brings me to another point: that would we write only if there was hope of being published or would we do it even if our work would never see the light of the printing press?

Bina.

Jonty #10:

Nah, it is Mr. Theroux, if you insist! :)

You say, “... the sort of person who tends to become an writer is usually dysfunctional” and “how hard can it be to write about nice things?” Have to drag Jawahara in this. Recall her saying it is well nigh impossible for her.

And when did your preference switch from ‘artists’ to ‘writer’?

As far as prizes are concerned, usually the best packaged (read marketed) books win prizes.

Others? Does it remind you of AI? And I don’t see them thrashing Kashmir, religion or politics elsewhere either.

regards

temporal

t

First name basis with Mr Theroux I see...have you been doing some hobnobbing with the literati you`d like to tell us about? ;-)

I don`t think Theroux is saying that the only great writing is of the `half-full glass` variety. Rather, the sort of person who tends to become an writer is usually dysfunctional (which, as you know, has always been my contention.) And what else can we expect the dysfunctional writer to write about, or at least, have as his underlying drive, but dysfunction? The dark side, the abnormality, the horror? (Theroux`s own vision of a doomed utopia in the Mosquito Coast comes to mind.)

Of course there are writers who can be `sweet`, can write on less weighty subjects. (Theroux mentions one, Angus Wilson.) But these are the exceptions. To produce great art one must suffer, go through hell, as it were. That is what abreaction is. How hard can it be to write about nice things?

Take a most current example- JM Coetzee`s novel, Disgrace, which has just won the Commomwealth Prize in Delhi (poor Salman Rushdie, makes his first trip to India in 12 years only to be beaten) to go along with the Booker it collected last year. Disgrace is as bleak and as dark as they come. But that`s the way Coetzee sees it. The way it is.

`Lesser mortals can certainly burnish their talents from workshops or other great Universities of Life and Perspiration.`

Agreed...as far as the universities of life and perspiration go (though I wouldn`t go so far as to capitalise them.) There`s no substitute for life, as there is no substitute for reading. But I still maintain my opposition to workshops- though one may find the odd workshop that may be of some value. But let`s see what others have to say.

Jonty

Jonty #8:

We were in the middle of a similar discussion on the Roses and Broken China board.

Paul’s ‘sweet person’ is too subjective. Why must a great artist always describe the glass half full?

Why must the abreaction be limited for repressed emotions only? And even though it may be ‘quite hard’ it is not entirely rare.


Yes, I agree that “ Writing is serious business and, like marriage, it`s not for everyone.” But one has to begin somewhere. Writing. (Marriage --- any fool can blunder in -- or out of.)

Specifically, in KA`s case this is his/her first effort here. Kudos for being free of typos. I am sure Jawahara, Futema and others will nod with me when I say, some of the regular contributors here often make us wince with easily avoidable typos and errors.

If a writer does not care enough about what s/he writes, why must we? But we do. Correction -- let me speak for myself. I do. Effective usage of language being one of my passions.

Great writers are natural exceptions. Like Hemingway. Lesser mortals can certainly burnish their talents from workshops or other great Universities of Life and Perspiration. Caveat: if they are receptive.

Jawahara? Bina? Shandana? Sameer? Zehra? Saima? Uzma? Manail? Rehan?

regards

t

t, this one`s for you. It`s from Paul Theroux, novelist, travel writer, and VS Naipaul`s best friend.

`It`s quite hard to find a great writer, or even a very good writer, who is not a dysfunctional individual. It`s rare to be a sweet person and a wonderful writer...writing is a process of discovering what your dysfunctions are and harnessing some kind of creative energy to all that yearning and desire and fantasising.`

Sounds like he`s talking about catharsis there, wouldn`t you say?

As for this piece...well perhaps Molko was a bit harsh. But I too agree with his other sentiments. Writing is serious business and, like marriage, it`s not for everyone.

Don`t talk to me about writing workshops, though. Awful things. Do more harm than good. An American invention that promotes the lie of literary egalitarianism. You never saw Hemingway in one.

Jonty

Zehra # 4:

Catch 22? Damned if you do and damned if you don’t?

Recently some posters were irked by my comments on ‘creative’ pieces.

You know I always welcome and encourage new writers. Perhaps by inviting them to write to me directly, I would spare the rest trivial boredom. And the new writer may perhaps be more receptive away from the public glare.



Molko #5:

You are right, if I had nothing positive to say I would have refrained.

“With the greatest respect to temporal and his decision to be diplomatic, I have one thing to say to that. Bollocks. Thinking like that allows all manner of wrong-doing and atrocities to be committed and pass undetected, whether they be in the name of God, country, or in this case, literature.”

Wow, Molko! God, country, life and death I understand. But aren’t we a tad overboard when we bring in a first effort into the equation?

I fully agree with you “Writing is serious (pretentious) business.” (See Zehra, it is not entirely catharsis, it IS serious business!)

“I suppose I`ll get some flak for what I`m saying, but I won`t be surprised. True literary minds on Chowk are few and far between- just look at the number of replies a poem or short story on this site gets, as opposed to a political or religious or social piece, especially if it`s a `controversial` one.”

I don’t understand why you should receive any flak at all. You spoke your mind. And well...
I don’t know if a certain writer I have in mind is a ‘true literary mind on Chowk’ or not. But I do know the amount of time and effort s/he put into a certain short ‘piece’ --- and in its entire front page exposure not one reader commented. Not one!

Now if that was an investigative piece on the Popularity and Preference of the Missionary Position: Empirical Evaluation between the BJP and Congress or better still between the PPP and PML, or yet better still between the Deobandis and Barelvis it would have crossed the elusive 10,000 interaction level. Sex sells; sex and politics sells; sex, politics and religion is a win win formula.

First time writers take note.


K: #6:

All right, if you insist.

For a first time submission this was remarkably free of spelling errors and typos. I could only spot ‘thou’ and ‘gonna’ and they were in quotes. This indicates as a writer you care; who knows, you maybe passionate about writing. Attention to detail is a good beginning.

The plot had an O. Henry twist. To pull off it should have been totally unpredictable. This wasn’t.

If you write about things you have personally experienced you will avoid certain mistakes that have crept up here. Also the reader will wallow in the passion you will describe.

When you write, “Robert pulled on the jackpot lever absentmindedly.......” and walked away toward the neon exit sign you betray a certain lack of foreboding.

Most of the ‘One Armed Bandits” that I have seen in casinos on the land or in ships are, as it were, designed to produce maximum ruckus when the player wins. The sounds emanating is almost deafening. As if egging on other players with gods of greed and payout.

My conclusion -- Robert And Frank must have been deaf to walk away from such a cacophony of sound. And they were not, as you inform us.

I don’t know if they teach creative writing in Lahore. (Jhumpa Lahiri, 30 something recently won the Pulitzer. She is a UK born, US raised of Indian extraction. She has been writing since she was twelve or thirteen. After BA she drifted off to do a Ph D. But her career took off after she attended a seven month workshop at Fine Arts Work Center in Provincetown, Ma. She found an agent, had her first story accepted by the New Yorker, and sold her first book Interpreter of Maladies.) It always pays off to never stop learning.

Keep on reading, writing and learning. Good luck.

love, Z
regards all

temporal

t:

ki howa jo yeh howa?

omar..say it aint so..you didnt really like the story did you?

ka: too many movies and mystery novels...

z.rizvi

temporal:

Reviews and critiques were what i was looking for :) Most welcome.

K

It is often said that if one has nothing good to say, one should say nothing at all.

With the greatest respect to temporal and his decision to be diplomatic, I have one thing to say to that. Bollocks.

Thinking like that allows all manner of wrong-doing and atrocities to be committed and pass undetected, whether they be in the name of God, country, or in this case, literature.

This piece of writing is nothing more than a boys` own adventure story. Fine for eleven year olds, but totally out of place in a forum such as this. (I can see it now, though: someone is going to submit a post calling this piece of juvenilia a `breath of fresh air` and a welcome change from the pretentious nonsense that usually finds its way onto this site.)

I see no reason why we should coddle the authors of bad writing. Writing is serious (pretentious) business. It`s not for everyone. Writers are not served by misinformed plaudits, but by constructive criticism, no matter how cruel it may appear to be. If the writer cares at all about the quality of his work, he will take it all in stride, and hopefully be a better writer for it. Or in some cases, decide his talents lie elsewhere and put his quill to rest.

I suppose I`ll get some flak for what I`m saying, but I won`t be surprised. True literary minds on Chowk are few and far between- just look at the number of replies a poem or short story on this site gets, as opposed to a political or religious or social piece, especially if it`s a `controversial` one.

Good one, but not so interesting as compared to the other pieces over here.

But, I`ve to say that if this is the first attempt, then you`ll definitely improve with time.

For the end, gotta agree with Omar1974, loved the irony!

-----

K:

Welcome to Chowk. Interesting first effort.

rgds

t

PS: Some folks are irked if I `review` or `critique` a literary submission. If interested, please write care temporal3@hotmail.com.

Loved the irony of the ending!