Fighting in Peace

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Assalamalaikum!

To everyone who contributed to the article:

First, let me apologize for the errors in the article, I am pretty bad when it comes to the technical part in English. I never believed in the concept of proof reading and since my thoughts are much faster than the fingers that type it, I guess I become inefficient.

Second, thank you so much for providing this valuable insight to my ideas on Kashmir. I got exactly what I was searching for. Though it was really tempting to explain my intentions to those who misunderstood them, I resisted it and I am glad I did because I learnt much more. And to those who encouraged me, thanks again. I hope I can apply what I learnt form them to some constructive and practical endeavor. The persistence some people had was highly admirable.

I believe that a person should honor what they feel. I am glad everyone does that on Chowk.

One last thing, for those who were out to put me down, I don`t listen to people like you. Its very simple to point at what`s wrong and blow it out of proportion, a few solutions would have added a little more value.

``AROOJE AADME KHAKI SE ANJAAM SEHAME JAATE HAI

KE YEY TOOTA HUA TAARA MAHE KAAMAL NA BAN JAAYE``

[ The stars tremble at the progress of man,

And in this progress, the tiny star shall attain

The radiance of a Full Moon ]

ALLAMA IQBAL



Wassalam.

-Aisha

Pennanthur

That is why I was telling you. Don`t forget the past. Also don`t forget the future.

A very small example will suffice.

Sun would never set on British Empire. Now it hardly rises.

Just look at the history of your country and other countries of Asia.

This boom in IT is as much luck because suddenly a need has arisen which world was not prepared for and South Indian invested correctly.

As simple as that.

Why the need of Air in head.

Just to tell you my brother got a good job after self studying Oracle for three or four months and passing exam.

The market is so short that probably anyone with technical degree and know how to use PC can be accomodated.

Penthaur:#143

Perhaps Tamils deserve that proverb which only you can understand and go about revealing such buddhi laden cerebulums.

Why do quote this so often in Tamil.You do not seem to be one because I know some a lot of Tamils who do not seem to agree with you.

Then again,the exception proves the rule.

Keep sharing you might evolve!!!.

Farangi Kush

We have a proverb in Tamil which says, suitably translated ``How much ever you try to dress it up, a donkey can`t become a horse``

Kee your half-baked notions to yourself.

No. On second thught air them here. It is good laugh!!

KRASHID #139

Well I am not boasting. And besides it better to have air in your head rather than grasmoke or ....

Don`t ask me to keep quiet about India. Tell McKinsey, Fortune magazine, Kerry Packer, Microsoft, Oracle, Sun, RedHat, GE, Juergen Shroeder (German Finanance Minister who is falling at our feet to invite software engineers to Germany). Or the NASDAQ and NYSE chiefs who are camping in India to woo Indian companies to list with them.

In any case Wipro`s MCap is mre then that of the entire Karachi Stock Exchange.

Forget the past! Get real!!

Aisha:

You wrote a very good article.`Discussions` never resolve issues of such nature.What they really accomplish is that they give us a peek into the mindset of the adversary.This you have been able to extract out very admiringly.

Please continue your mission.The more of such `ha ha kars`(squeals & screams) your are able to get flushed out,the more succesful your mission will be.

If Indoos have to use oppression & force to call muslims theirs then it is proof enough that it is not so.

``Naa muskurai ga ghuncha bahaar aanay tuk

voh laakh noak e sinaan sey kali ka dil cheerayn``

Ahmad Nadeem Quasmi

tr: The flower shall not blossom till spring.

Mighty hard they try,to pry open the bud with a bayonet.

__________________________________________________

PS:Bring more & more young muslims to chowk.

__________________________________________________

wassalaam.

pennanthur#137

Too much air in the head makes it burst or keep it non functional.

Don`t forget before this IT boom to which you should be grateful to luck, Indian economy was in shambles.

There is a saying. A barren tree remains head high and a fruitful tree bends.

may i say that u are as confused about the kashmiries as they themselves are. in fact the kashmiries accepted as much when in 1992 u could oftenly find them saying `` asi aes theek ase kyah gav`` meaning -we were fine why did we get fooled by the pakistani`s slogan of freedom and land ourselves in a position of slavery to the two penny street goonda masqurading as a mujahid.

we kashmiries were confused primarily by insecurity fed to us by the thekedars of islam.

we did not ask ourselves that if so many pakistanis can live peacefully in america and england (mind u both are kafir lands. and a pakistani will give his right hand for a kafir visa) then why cant we live peacefully in india. we were taught to cleanse out the pandits quietly while crying about human rights. we were excited at the burning of our most revered shrine of nund rishi. we could`t probably fall lower than that.

i hope u know now why we kashmiries are suffering.

we asked for it- and got it.

Dear Ali1,

You asked for it. Re Saxena. You are suffering from a bad case of Aesopis Foxitis Souris. In other words SOUR GRAPES!!!

Wit half of Silicon Valley being run by Indians and what with Oracle serving Idli and Sambar every morning for breakfast you sure must be feeling left out.

The reasoning at the US Consulate going by your logic must be pretty simple.

1 Indian with fake certificates is better than 10 Ali1 types with certificates from Jehad Madrassa and Cutthroat College!!

Pipe down buddy. If you can`t beat us, don`t worry, we won`t let u join us either!!

Umairr

{{US foreign policy is dictated more by US national interests than anything else, including morality. The same situation and the same people will be viewed differently by the US depending on how advantageous they are to the US. This is true for most countries` foreign policies. The big difference in the case of the US is that it has to put a moral picture in front of its own population, before it can take any sort of action against another group of people. The actual motivation of those actions is always US national interest, not what is right and what is wrong.}}

India has known that since the cold war, esp since the 70`s. So what`s new?! I`m surprised Pakistan is finding that out just now. In 71, Pakistan held an election & Sheikh Mujib won. The army kicked democracy in the face & conducted a genocide in E Pakistan. America, the self proclaimed champion of democracy, tilted towards Pakistan because Nixon didnt want to jeopardise his foreign policy victory in China.

However, before we thrash the US, tell me which country behaves differently as far as foreign policy is concerned? The US maybe a superpower, but that doesnt mean it should be the moral guardian of the world. There is plenty of hypocracy in every country, so nobody has the right to point fingers at the US.

There is one reality that is more painful to Pakistan than the US betrayal. In fact it is so painful that not a single Pakistani ever brings it up--because the mere acknowledgement will cause unbearable anguish at the very core of what Pakistan holds so dear. That is the great betrayal of the OIC--esp the Arabs. 70000 muslims in Kashmir have been slaughtered, countless more have been brutalised, raped & tortured-- right!!?? no Pakistani will ever dispute that. Well, what have the other muslim nations done about it? This is a slap in the face for Pakistan.

Only the oil rich Arabs & Iran have the clout to arm twist India. Why blame the US? US sanctions did`nt faze India one bit. An oil embargo--well thats a different story. Pakistan`s inability to convince its fellow muslim bretheren of living up to their moral duty is its GREATEST diplomatic failure. Nobody in Pakistan has the guts to admit that.

There is an elephant in the room. But nobody wants to see it.

Pakistan a ``safe haven`` for terrorists : US congressional report

WASHINGTON, June 5 (AFP) -

A US commission on Monday accused Pakistan of supporting and offering a safe haven for international terrorists, in a report which urged President Bill Clinton to censure the Islamabad government.

The National Commission on Terrorism, set up by Congress two years ago after bombings at US embassies in East Africa, found Pakistan had ``cooperated on counter-terrorism at times, but not consistently.``

``Pakistan provides safe haven, transit, and moral, political and diplomatic support to several groups engaged in terrorism,`` said the report.

The Clinton administration should consider designating Pakistan, along with Greece, as ``not cooperating fully`` in the fight against terrorism, it added.

``The US government should vigorously use the ``not cooperating fully`` category, naming countries, even friends and allies -- whose behavior is objectionable but does not justify designation as state sponsor of terrorism,`` said the report.

Nations which fall into this ``not cooperating fully`` category face a US embargo on arms sales.

The report named the Islamic Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HUM) as a terrorist operation. The group, which has been blamed for kidnapping western tourists, is believed by officials here to be based in Pakistan and Afghanistan and is active mostly in Indian-controlled Kashmir.

The HUM ``operates openly and with the apparent support of the Pakistan government -- at least it hasn`t been closed down,`` commission chairman L. Paul Bremer said as he presented the report at a news conference Monday.

Pakistan, a traditional friend of the US, ``should take account of these recommendations,`` if it wants to avoid censure, Bremer said.

Despite its criticisms, the commission praised Pakistan for arresting and extraditing Ramzi Ahmed Yousef, who masterminded the New York World Trade Centre bombing in 1993.

Islamabad`s cooperation was also ``vital`` in heading off terrorist attacks planned last year for the turn of the millennium, according to the report.

US Secretary of State Madeleine Albright reacted to leaked copies of the report on Sunday, saying that the administration was ``not considering sanctions`` against Pakistan and Greece but wanted them to take more action against terrorism.

The report was issued less than two weeks after the US told Pakistan it must convince Afghanistan`s ruling Taliban to hand over terrorism suspect Osama bin Laden.

US Under Secretary of State Thomas Pickering said in Pakistan last month that it was ``clearly known and established`` that bin Laden was behind the African embassy bombings.

The Taliban have refused to hand over the wealthy Saudi dissident, saying that Washington has failed to provide any evidence against him.

Afghanistan is assigned by the United States the status of ``not cooperating fully`` with anti-terrorism efforts. It has not been added to the US list of ``state sponsors`` of terrorism purely because Washington wants to avoid recognising the Taliban government, the commission`s report stated.

Beyond talking tough on terrorism

Arthur H. Davis

WASHINGTON

http://www.csmonitor.com/durable/2000/06/05/fp9s2-csm.shtml

Christian Science Monitor

This time last year, hundreds of Pakistani Army regulars and trained militants were discovered entrenched deep inside the high mountain peaks of the Kargil area in India`s state of Jammu and Kashmir. The three-month, high-intensity conflict that ensued between the two nuclear-armed states shocked the world into realizing that a post-cold- war nuclear exchange remained possible.

Aside from stern warnings and a presidential lecture, the administration has done little to sanction the root causes of last year`s near-disastrous conflict. A reflection of this has been the administration`s decision last month to leave Pakistan and Afghanistan off of the United States` list of state sponsors of terrorism. This decision constitutes a grave soft-pedaling on terrorism and a victory for political expediency over grim security realities.

In its defense, State Department coordinator for counterterrorism, Michael Sheehan, cited ``friendship`` and ``a very explicit definition of terrorism,`` as reasons for not declaring Pakistan a terrorist state. Despite ``credible reports of official Pakistani support for Kashmir militant groups that engage in terrorism,`` shown by daily assaults on Indian security forces, such attacks ``constitute criminal acts`` and not terrorism.

Contrary to that definition is a reality on the ground in Kashmir. Peaceful civilians are just as often the victims of market-place bombings and mortar fire exchanged across the line of control as are Indian forces. In 1998, the latest available figures, the Indian home affairs ministry reported 773 civilian deaths in Jammu and Kashmir compared with 776 militant fatalities. Since civilians weren`t the intended targets, the perpetrators of terrorist actions are allowed to continue to carry out their aggressions without fear of reprisal or sanction.

Meanwhile, Pakistan`s current military junta pays its own ingenuous lipservice to the fight against terrorism in their country. Since President Clinton`s personal castigation of Pakistani efforts to stem the tide of terror and fundamentalism emanating from Pakistan, chief executive Pervez Musharraf has issued a series of paper-tiger directives that threaten to rein in the influence of Pakistan`s fundamentalists. Musharraf went on to indicate that he would seek a dialogue with the Taliban over Osama bin Laden.

So far the directives have achieved their intended goal of mollifying international observers while allowing indigenous fundamentalist groups to maintain a business-as-usual approach in their fight against the West. To this end, Pakistan`s foreign ministry issued a statement last month saying that ``Pakistan cannot be expected to interfere in the internal affairs of Afghanistan.``

Ironically, Pakistan`s current regime is coming to the somber understanding that after letting the Islamic fundamentalist genie out of its bottle, any attempt to put it back in will be met with increased sectarian violence among Pakistanis and against the government. In a recent meeting of the United Jehad Council, an umbrella group of over 500 fundamentalist and terrorist organizations based in Pakistan, leaders warned Musharraf that, ``Jehad cannot be stopped. The whole of Pakistan is involved in it; the issue does not concern just one or two groups.`` Clearly, while these groups are often used and co-opted by state intelligence agencies, they can also function outside the realm of government consent. This should be of particular concern to US policymakers who continue to pressure the Pakistani leadership to rein in rogue terrorist elements.

To have achieved any progress, the Clinton administration needed the courage and commitment to employ its most powerful form of leverage against Pakistan by declaring it a state sponsor of terrorism.

Only the mandatory sanctioning and increased isolation such a designation carries would have compelled the military junta to crack down on those elements which have made South Asia the world`s newest haven for terrorist activity.

Unfortunately, adding the designation of ``terrorist state`` to a state already possessing nuclear weapons would constitute a resolute failure in the administration`s already weak security and nonproliferation policy. For the administration`s tough talk on terrorism to earn any credibility, its genuine security priorities can no longer be subject to the whims of political opportunism.

Arthur H. Davis served as US ambassador to Paraguay and Panama. He served as an adviser on this subject to the US Mission to the UN at the 40th General Assembly.

The URL for this page is:

http://www.csmonitor.com/durable/2000/06/05/fp9s2-csm.shtml

Ali #128

Sorry to interrupt your friendly match with RSax but here`s a song for you -

Dil jalta hai to jala ne de ....

Instructions on use

1. Add anatomy as required.

2. Sing to right tune.

3. Look sufficiently morose.

4. For best results sing when alone and do not use accompaniments

Have fun.

ylh

In general, you and other Pakis talk about a ``principled`` stand on Kashmir. Perhaps, you would then like to comment on Layman`s post, in which he points out that China has more troops posted in Tibet than India does, in Kashmir.

China`s human rights violations are perhaps matched only by some dictator regimes in sub-saharan Africa.

I would be really interested to you if you and others would condem China.

Looking forward to your reply.

AD

Umairr 124,

As usual an intelligent analysis of US foreign policy. Could I suggest reading ``Necessary Illusions: Thought control in democratic societies`` by Noam Chomsky on how the US represents its foreign policy (based on hard-core realpolitik) to the domestic audience as a moral crusade.

good luck

SMN