My Identity

Re: # 11

I think the question of identity is presently the most mind-boggling issue for the people of Indo-Pak subcontinent. In this please see my e-mail to a cyber friend in Cannada below:-

``So far as the sub-continent is concerned, it is in my view simply the problem of identity which is bedevilling the relationship among various political entities of the region. I tried to solve this problem rather simplistically by the concept of ‘Dual Citizenship’ in my article published in the newspost of Daily News recently as reproduced below:-

“ Dual Citizenship

I saw a report in the press, which says, “Pakistan excluded from India’s new dual citizenship laws”.

It raised many questions in my mind about the citizenship of those who were born on either side of India before Partition. According to the international law, if I am correct, all such people should have primarily been treated as citizens by birth of India, the mother country. No option was taken from such individuals at the time of Partition whether they wanted to adopt citizenship of Bharat or Pakistan. In fact a lot of people who migrated on the eve of partition and even sometimes afterwards to either side of the Divide were treated, ipso facto, as citizens of the country whereto they had migrated. I don’t know as to when this chapter was closed. However, even today Kashmiries are enjoying dual, or perhaps, triple citizenship – one of Azad Kashmir, second of the Indian Kashmir and the third one virtually of Pakistan as well.

Then there arose the question of stranded Biharies in Bangladesh who wanted to retain their Pakistani citizenship. The government of Pakistan have agreed to accept their claim in principle and even arranged to settle a sizeable number of them in Pakistan. But lots of Biharies are still suffering in Bangladesh due to this muddle of citizenship laws.

I think that among the plethora of issues consequential to the partition of India which defied solution the question of citizenship is the one which has not been given due attention commensurate with its importance. And that is why we now hear this paradoxical report about exclusion of Pakistan from India’s new dual citizenship laws, despite the fact that of all the world Pakistan is the most closely related country to India, geographically, historically, culturally, politically and what not.

In fact the grant of dual citizenship to the people of all the states in the Indian sub-continent would evidently prove to be the key-solution of all the problems resulting from the partition of India. It would in fact render even the core issue of Kashmir as irrelevant as with dual citizenship people of Kashmir would be able to go to either side without any visa, etc.

It therefore defies one’s comprehension why India as a mother country should take such a negative step, which, prima facie, is opposed to its current avowed policy of establishing friendly relations with Pakistan and its people.”

I was disappointed to find no reaction to it; not even a negative one, which I most expected. May be it’s a positive sign. Or perhaps I could not put the idea explicitly and lucidly as Tandan could have done. I intend to float this idea on Chowk for discussion. But before that I would like to have comments from friends like you and Tandon to see whether it is worthwhile.``

I would appreciate and vaue your comments thereon.

Regards

teshah

Howard stern ..

first of all ... let me clarify when you speak about Muslim seperatism .... Pakistan was made as a political solution for a communal problem and not for religion ...

If you go to Pakistan you willl see that there are no Medieval laws in practice ..

Secondly ... if you had cared to read .. I said that Farakhan is not even considered Muslim by most Muslims....

and he is fighting for a seperate black state not a seperate Muslim state ..

Cheraym !

Thanks for the advise.

Because it is America which is feeding me.

Because my life is dependent on CIA.

First of all working of American system is not like yours (everybody thinks in his/her frame of reference).

Second even if it is. What is the worst scenario. They will tell me to go back home. Or kill. What more they can do.

Do you know the sign of cowardice.

Ruthless on weak, afraid of strong.

Think many times on this with a coin in front of you as advised by some sage on this board.

krashid: In your euphoria, you forgot the population of US, it is not billion. So 240 millions of them are murderers as you may want to say!

By the way, is he really Howard Stern that you guys are after? I wonder whether real Howard Stern is interacting in Chowk.

Cool down a bit, looks like all these hot exchanges with several people on different boards may take a toll in your blood pressure. Imagine if Howard Stern reports you and YLH to CIA. There goes your American dream!

Good luck

Howard stern!

Since you did not comment on my points raised regarding the role of America in Vietnam, etc etc.

Can I presume that you are peed up by few Muslim terrorists students. Although, I don`t know of any. I take your word as gentlemen.

But with the same token whole American nation of billions of people is a terrorist. Billions of terrorist.

Do you still differentiate between National interest and terrorism.

Killing of people in any name is bad.

ylh

No answer, so you call me names. This place chowk won`t let me call you names otherwise I would. Call me on my show sometimes.

How about answering my concerns and those of a million other secular people around the world. Sooner or later Moslems all over the world start demanding a separate homeland for Moslems with medieval Moslem laws. And you start with terrorism.

So, how are the plans shaping up for the US of A ?

American identity ???? Read the statistics on Moslem terrorist threats to the USA.

A ha ...

what do we have here ... another ignorant American .... well Mr Howard stern ... maybe you forget that Farrakhan is considered a Non Muslim by most mainstream Islamic groups in the US and around the world ... he is not the leader of the Muslims ...

Most Muslims wish America best of luck and prosperity and are loyal to it.

and me ... I am a Pakistani plain and simple who is just studying here and will go back ...

Now enough with your babbling ... go play your Nintendo ...

art_wart reply#49

I said we have some of our own terrorists in the the mindless middle of the country. I don`t think you understood that.

krashid reply #50

The article is about this guy ranting about his identity being American and all. Loyalties to America blah blah blah.

When we all know he would be the first to support a separate United States of America for Moslems. The secular world is not stupid. We are just too secular to deny entry to Moslems in this country. And yeah, a lot of the ``lucky`` ones are simply terrorists. How about yourself ?

Am I provoking you enough for you to go and assert your Moslem identity in America, yet ? Are you a terrorist yet ?

art_wart reply#49

I said we have some of our own terrorists in the the mindless middle of the country. I don`t think you understood that.

krashid reply #50

The article is about this guy ranting about his identity being American and all. Loyalties to America blah blah blah.

When we all know he would be the first to support a separate United States of America for Moslems. The secular world is not stupid. We are just too damn secular to deny entry to Moslems in this country. And yeah !! a lot of the ``lucky`` ones are simply terrorists. How about yourself ?

Am I provoking you enough for you to go and assert your Moslem identity in America, yet ? Are you a terrorist yet ?

Howard stern #47

What the student visa and terrorist has to do with identity as explained by Godot.

Second you know who steals a penny is thief, who steals millions is businessman.

A few terrorist on student visa.

How about killing of wholesale Vietnamese people, killing of Iraqi chiladren. Putting palestinians out of their country to make Rothschild happy.

Don`t talk big American sh-it on this board. Leave it for CNN and NBC.

To Mr. Howard stern,

talking of muslim teerorists..... what do you have to say about ``oklohoma city bombing``?

Did skin heads aloso came here on student visas....?

Reply ..... plzzzzzz.

very thought provoking.....& raises questions about issues/terms such as identitiy-nationality.

Godot and krashid

All this talk of American identity and loyalty is making me sick. The fact is that in the last 10 years almost all Moslem terrorists in the US have come on student Visas. And I don`t remember too many other types of terrorists (except Moslem ones that is) coming to the US. Yeah we have some of our own crazy ones in the mindless middle of the country.

And we also know that you would be the first to support a separate Moslem America. Farrah Khan has already been screaming for it.

Beautifully said Sameer JB ..

yes our minorities deserve our attention more than our Co religionists any where in the World !

Godot #43

May be you don`t realize, that you getting lucky is an American policy to keep their economy going and keeping the work force.

Initially they did it without concern for crime. But now they are letting people get lucky as long as they are not involved in crime.

It is a two way benefit. We benefit materially. America benefits by keeping the number of people constant. I think Nafta and trade with other countries, where America imports a lot of stuff is also to overcome this problem. Like China usually sells stuff with basic technology. So is Malaysia and now Mexico and Canada which fills all the large chains all over US. Although theoretically America can do it herself, but with around 4% unemployment to keep the economy running, it cannot provide the manpower.

But all in all it still benefits us as a family.

As a reminder your father migrated in 60`s and my father in 50`s. Even Ghanwa Bhutto, recently Pakistanized (like Christianized) is playing an active role in Pakistani politics. Dr. Iqbal Ahmed (Hoodbhoy`s favorite) passed his life in India (born), Pakistan(raised) and all over the world(his adult life). But when he decided to pass the last days of his life in Pakistan, he was considered one of the most original Pakistani. Although, there are some problems recently because of rise in crime, mostly by migration from Bengal, Burma etc (Afghanis are dealt seperately) Pakistan has traditonally accepted newcomers as long as they feel it is their own. It might be related to the history where waves of invasion have to pass through current Pakistan (particularly NWFP and Punjab) before going to East or South.

I will not blame you to claim as a Pakistani. Anybody coming to Karachi, even from Punjab, NWFP, Baluchistan, ultimately absorbs in its culture and claims it as their own.

You can take a Pakistani to America and he remains a Pakistani. If you take an American to
Pakistan, he remains an American.
We are mostly Americans of Pakistani or Indian
origin here on CHOWK. Our identity should remain
a source of pride to us ``Desis``. But our children
on the other hand are Americans period.
Anyway, I enjoyed this article, as a
``Pakistani``-American in America and I`m damn well still proud of being one.

Ras