Should Pakistan start a Virtual University?

This argument may be over but amen to SR #75

Zahra #124: ``Somehow, I have some doubts. If they were that enlightened, you won`t be complaining about their wives here``

Since you do not know the people I am talking about, you have two choices: you can take my word for it. Or you can disregard my word, in which case, you should also disregard everything else I have written.

There are actually quite a few Pakistanis guys who are more than willing to support the wives in their education and careers. I would say amongst the professional Pakistanis I have come across ( not only amongst my close friends) in the US, this group is in the majority. However, their wives have to take some initiative on their own first, before they ask for support from their husbands.

``Personally, I do not care what these wives do. Excuse my indifference. I am far more interested in the well-being of women back home.``

The only way, ``women back home`` will have the chance to progress is if well-off women here and in Pakistan take some initiative and end up as role models in influential positions. Until that happens, apart from the lives of the one odd women back home who gets a scholarship, nothing major is going to change.

``Majority of women, who come to the US after their medicine or engineering, will pursue their careers unless they are married to Pagal Ulloos[Mad Owls]!``

This is true. But how many Pakistani women in the USA have degrees in medicine and engineering. An overwhelming majority seems to come here after completing their B.A., etc. Until this overwhelming majority decides to join the mainstream, the doctors and engineers will not be able to do too much on their own. There just aren`t enough of them.

And an owl is generally regarded as oneof the most intelligent birds in America. It is only in Pakistan, that the owl is considered stupid.

``If your comment was a criticism towards the guest speakers who were invited, I am sorry I was not in the loop at all. And I think you should not hammer on that any more.``

Actually, my comment was not a criticism regarding the speakers. The speakers did a pretty good job. My comment was a criticism of the Pakistani women who did not show up to the function. And the fact that their aren`t any qualified Pakistani women available to speak. If I, a non-woman, could pay the money and take the time to show up for this function, then don`t you think many of the thousands of Pakistani well-off women in Silicon Valley could have shown up for this function. Who stopped them from showing up? Did their husbands tie them up or lock them in the bathroom? I have seen way too many of them line up, along with myself, to buy tickets to Junoon and Daler Mehndi concerts, when these singers visit Silicon Valley. Nothing wrong with that, but why don`t they show an equal interest on this side, as well.

They simple reason is that very few of them, despite having all the opportunity in the world, really care about technology, furthuring their abilities, getting into positions where they can help women in Pakistan, etc. The only ones who were present in the function were the ones from iopwe. However, to the best of my knowledge, this function was open to all men and women.

If out of the thousands of Pakistanis girls and women in Silicon Valley, all of whom are very well-off with well educated husbands, only ten (and seven out of these ten were themselves members of the organization that organized the function) bothered to attend this function, then don`t you think it is a pretty good indication that these women do not take interest. And until these well-off Pakistani women start taking interest as a huge group, I don`t think too much can be done for the not so well off Pakistani women. This, of course, does not mean that the few women who are making efforts should not be encouraged.

``I am no one to go and tell them what to do and how to do; I cannot impose my vision on someone and ask them to adopt that as theirs!``

I am not quite sure where you got the idea that I was requesting you to personally target these women. I was just pointing out the problem. Since you do represent an organization that is trying to solve these problems, and you had yourself requested my opinion (I did not volunteer it), hence I gave it to you, and pointed out an area which I felt needed to be highlighted.

gymno #72

(I do not shorten it to Paki because that is an offensive term usually associated with Paki-bashing.)

And calling Telugu`s `golti`, is not being offensive?

SN

well, well well - I knew gynosophist was good at writing things and may be on occasion is good at reading as well. But in this case he has not read anything and is quick at the draw - becareful you will shoot yourself and be missing those toes.

Read what I said - I said IT is a never never land even for India. Today it is IT tomorrow (as the Indians saying) it knowledge economy. If you cannot read think it time you went for a long walk Mr Plodder and took come course on reading comprehension.

Now lets see what you have to say about what I wrote.

If not take a blessed hike.

AS regards who am I - nationality does it matter. I am a baluchi with a nationality that is none of your business.

As far as I am concerned even you are a paindoo (a simpleton) - I do not use it in a pejorative sense unlike it appears you seem to be implying.

I am an uneducated baluchi who has had the good fortune of escaping from the mess that the elite (paindoos) in pakistan have created with my senses and faculties intact. I have missed the brainwashing of the curriculum, the people and the rest.

Now gymnosophist, an adrogynous name if I ever saw one, who the effing hell are you? What is your nationality, etc etc etc etc.

Now after the personal stuff - care to address some of the issues raised MR. For if you or many here cannot - I cannot forsee a future where pakistan can match India doings. It will forever keep trying to match it and believe its propaganda on the knowledge economy, IT etc - a never never land living where peter forever fighst the pirates and the crocodiles.

gymno,

[...I guess you now have even less of a leg to stand on when you defend the Golti Programmer...]

i was not defending anyone, golti or otherwise. i merely questioned the circumstances under which your story took place. your original post did not give any details about those. had it done so, i would not have bothered.

Nameles in his reply #52 talks specifics of Indian software companies` prowess and generalizes it to all Indian companies and by extension to Indians.

And in reply #62 claims he is not Indian and calls Pakistanis `paindoos`. (I do not shorten it to Paki because that is an offensive term usually associated with Paki-bashing.) He then goes on to extol the virtues of the educational system of India and how Pakistan cannot ever make it in IT -- another generalization.

But if I talk of a couple of specific cases and ask if I should generalize it to all Indians, he wants to talk about Virtual Universities.

And of course he hasn`t identified upto this point exactly what knowledge the Indians are going to be spreading in their knowledge-based industry.

Everybody generally tells you to wake up and smell the coffee. I merely ask you not to believe that your own sh *t doesn`t stink.

So, Mr. Nameless, what nationality are you? I remember an Indian who used to say his nationality was `Sindhi` while living in India and holding an Indian passport. Are you one of those? Or, even better, a Kashmiri? A Bodo, perhaps? It would be interesting to know.

gymno
Your predicament has been obvious for quite a while and I feel for you. I would recommend Diane Fienstein as the person for your money, literally and figuratively.

WHo cares whether gymnosophist sacked some programmer or not, or whether he paid the guy or not. whether some person can hack it or not....

{hhhhm it is an interesting question that last one - can anyone really hack it }

The question still remains - why a virtual university in a country where basic school education appears to be minimal? teaching someone how to use a computer is different from educating them through a virtual university.

With a virtual university there are a number of issues one needs to consider - e.g

(1) What would the reach of the university be

both in terms of (a) students and (b) courses of study available?

(2) How would the study material be delivered?

(3) How would you control the delivery and content

of the courses?

(4) How would you assess the outcomes of the

courses?

(5) Would the course be purely modular where by

the enrolled can take one course and forget

about the rest (aka credit based)? How would

string the modules/credits to gether to form a

coherent whole?

(6) Would the credits be transferable? (if they

are you would need a far greater degree of

uniformty across the institutions of the

country - which is sadly lacking right now.

(7) far more fundemental is - whether it is really

needed given the current rate of FS`s in the

country. CAn the existing institutions be

expanded to provide the extra palces? What can

be done to make these institutions more

uniform?

These and many more questions need to answered. Just by saying we want to do it and waving hands you will get it and there is no genie around who will do it for you.

gymnosophist #67

You are over dramatizing your situation. I have also been in this industry for many years. I have seen all nationalities abusing the software business. Please do not single out Indian programmers for that.

I was in New York with a team, working for top wall street firm. Got lot of resistance from resident chinese programmer. Our job was to clean up the programs created by him in last four years which he deliberately kept totally uncommented and undocumented. Finally when I could convince him that I am not trying to take his job that he came clear and told me that he wants us all make money and live like a ``big happy family``.

I am with best rated American consulting firm and majority of my colleagues are americans. These top rated consultants were arguing about use cases last week at a client location. Different suggestions were that use cases are flow chart/ interaction diagram/a two page text. This is when we charge $2500 per day.

these people routinely hide information from each other and from client.

I do not want to argue for the behaviour of your indian programmer. But let us not generalize that.

However, I will agree with you that routine software jobs do not need any skills and can be performed by any nationality.

Regards

Ref concerned #: 67

You ask {so you tell a guy that his contract would be terminated in two months time and he leaves you even before that! and what exactly is unethical/wrong/surprising in that? did he give a two weeks notice?}

My Indian programmer kept proclaiming how everything was on track in the project and left without any notice when I was away at a conference. I acted as his reference and gave him a very good reference when his potential next employers called, so it was not like I destroyed his income potential when the contract would come to its end. One would expect in such a situation that he would wrap up the project properly and complete his responsibilities. That did not happen. So you could say there was a lack of ethical behavior.

The SOB had the gall to call me back two weeks later to ask if he could come back full-time. That was because he found the other company too hard to handle.

Mr. Golti Programmer found to his chagrin that I had not signed his timesheet for two months and so was not going to be paid. So he came in during the weekends to finish the project to the level where Ali would at least have clean compiles to work with.

There are enough stories I know about these guys jumping ship that would make a manager`s hair curl. Another golti left on a Friday evening supposedly to visit a friend in Detroit (his room-mate had taken a two-bedroom apartment on a six-month lease to share with this guy just the previous week), disappeared into the thin air, and 2 weeks later called to see if his final paycheck had been received in the mail! Of course his company withheld the guy`s paycheck in retaliation.

You ask {and mr ali rescued you/project simply because of the goodness of his heart or there were other reasons, such as a desire to stay employed?}

As a manager paying a salary for value received, I don`t worry about people`s motivation, only their ethics or lack thereof.

I guess you now have even less of a leg to stand on when you defend the Golti Programmer.

gymno,

so you tell a guy that his contract would be terminated in two months time and he leaves you even before that! and what exactly is unethical/wrong/surprising in that? did he give a two weeks notice? and mr ali rescued you/project simply because of the goodness of his heart or there were other reasons, such as a desire to stay employed?

rgds

The ability of Indians to cut code is accepted everywhere in he world today. That doesn`t mean they are the only ones who can cut code. After all, while companies such as Netscape employ overeducated Indians by the boatload, the guy who walked off with a couple of hundred million dollars is Marc Andreesen. Thus most Indians are satisfied with the crumbs they get here because that is all they can get. The exceptions are those who start companies and are successful and then get written up in Fortune magazine.

But that doesn`t mean that other nationalities can`t cut code or become successful. If anyone wants to stereotype people based on their ethnicity, one could say that Tandon was successful in the disk drive business because he was a Punjabi. And at that time (some 20 years back), there weren`t any other major Indian success stories to talk about. So if today you find Indians succeeding in the hi-tech industry (and not just as engineers and software developers; a quick look through a Silicon Valley directory will show them as CFOs of several companies -- but then you can attribute THAT also to ethnicity as quite a few are South Indian Brahmins, a favorite ethnic group, I understand, of Dhirubhai Ambani of Reliance Industries for his companies` finance positions) don`t assume that it is somehow inherent in Indian genes to succeed. If so, that gene hadn`t manifested itself for the first 40 years of Indian independence.

The average Indian who comes to the US comes from a lower middle-class family and has a desperate need to succeed. On the other hand, the Iranians who used to come to the US were from very rich families. While there might have been no desperate need for them to improve their financial positions, you will find quite a few of them are successful enterpreneurs; I of course attribute it to their history as rug merchants (much to the dismay of those who have to be politically correct ALL the time). The same thing goes for people from a bunch of other countries.

There is no bar to Pakistanis succeeding in the software industry. I remember Crescent as a Pakistani body shop from some 15 years back. There is no doubt that there is a huge quantity advantage for India today. The quality, as measured by CMM certfication, comes from the efforts of the Indian software companies, not due to the excellence of the educational institutions because the vast majority of Indians do graduate from the equivalent of Podunk University. So if you want to talk about succeeding in IT, it comes from an analytical mind, the ability to understand and write in strange and artificial languages; not because an Indian`s brain is pre-wired for Java. Nothing prevents a Pakistan, a Sri Lanka or a Philippines from emulating India. When talking to a Pakistani programmer who worked for me, I had a glimpse of some of the nice programming work they are doing for the Armed Forces. Of course, they are not going to trumpet that because the nature of the work is confidential but at least it was obvious that they are not primitive the way some of us believe them to be.

Let us at least agree that Pakistan is in many ways similar to Bihar and UP. They may have a long way to go just like Bihar and UP have but Pakistan also started rather low on the education ladder. While we might all bemoan their single-minded fixation on Kashmir, at least they have shown they can plan and execute their military plans well. So be grateful they are not showing such determination yet in other fields.

By the way, that Pakistani programmer replaced an Indian who left me in the lurch when he was told his contract was going to be terminated in 2 months` time. The SOB never finished anything and Ali rescued me and my project. So, talk about work ethics! Should I generalize it to all Indians?

To: Umairr, gymno..., & the rest

`` body shoppers & body sellers of India``, from the Far East Economic Review, dated 7/20/00.

OVERVIEW

Building the New India

India has long lost its top talent to better jobs

overseas. Now the brains are returning to lead the

charge into the New Economy. For gutsy investors,

opportunities abound

By Henny Sender/BOMBAY

Issue cover-dated July 20, 2000

AFTER MORE THAN a decade working outside

India, Piyush Gupta returned to his homeland two

months ago, exchanging the security and prestige of an

international assignment with the Citibank unit of

Citigroup for the uncertainties and turbulence of a local

dotcom.

His return says much about how India is changing--and

more importantly about how the world is changing in a

way that benefits India. ``Indian companies couldn`t

make it in the industrial age,`` says Gupta, CEO of

go4i.com. ``But the knowledge economy plays to India`s

strength. India is evolving up the value-added chain in

the New Economy.``

There have always been two Indias, or at least two

types of Indians. There are those who live by their

muscle, a group that has always encompassed the vast

majority of India`s 1 billion-plus population. And there

are those who are fortunate enough to make their way

on the basis of their intellectual power. For the second

group, that generally has meant taking advantage of

opportunities outside India. Today, Indians hold top

posts at some of the most formidable organizations in

the world--institutions such as Citibank itself and

Lucent Technologies` awesome Bell Labs.

But now, for the first time, the brains of India are

returning and powering New Economy companies back

home. They are also transforming other parts of the

economy, taking traditional, low value-added

companies such as copycat pharmaceutical firms and

pushing them up the value-added curve.

As this new sliver of globalized India grows, the

increasing income of these professionals and the people

they employ is giving rise to a surge in domestic

demand for everything from Honda cars to Pepsi soft

drinks. Indians working in India--even in the most

globalized firms in the most globalized industries such as

finance--used to be paid a fraction of what their

counterparts in other countries earned. But as

competition for top talent heats up, they are swiftly

climbing the pay ladder.

Both foreign multinationals and local companies, even in

relative backwaters like Calcutta that are far from the

feverish centres of the New Economy such as

Bangalore, are offering salaries to top managers

equivalent to those paid in New York or Silicon Valley.

Gupta got a taste of the wage explosion as he searched

for employees for his start-up. In the several weeks

between the time he poached his first employee from a

pharmaceutical company to the time he went after his

second, he found salary expectations had shot up 30%.

The implications of this rapidly growing group of

well-off consumers are widespread. Their presence and

spending create economic opportunities for

entrepreneurs further down the food chain. And the

spreading wealth makes India a more attractive place

for multinationals to ply their goods--and even produce

them. The ripple effects are not endless or exhaustive,

but they are substantial. ``This is a new age which we

couldn`t have imagined even two years ago,`` says

Nanoo Pamnani, the Bombay-based head of Citibank`s

India operations.

Neither the new optimism nor the vast potential of

Indian companies, however, completely outweigh the

dangers of investing in India. The Bombay stockmarket

is volatile, even by the dizzying standards of Asia,

especially now that the technology, media and telecoms

industries account for 42% of Morgan Stanley Capital

International`s India index. When the Nasdaq market

dropped in March and then fell more violently in April,

the Bombay Stock Exchange plunged even further,

losing 25% of its market capitalization in weeks (and

taking the market to the level it was at six years ago).

``Appealing valuations, nerve-racking volatility`` is how

Ridham Desai, head of research for JM Morgan

Stanley in Bombay, describes the Indian market after

the violent fall.

Many macroeconomic indicators also remain dismal.

Foreign direct investment is declining despite all the

anecdotal evidence of South Korean computer makers,

Chinese television builders and American car

companies piling into the economy. Nonoil imports and

capital spending both remain subdued. That means

timing the Indian market requires great skill. But the

changes under way have convinced most analysts that

it`s only a matter of time before both the market and its

listed companies come of age.

NEW ACCESS TO CAPITAL

Gupta`s go4i.com highlights some of the factors

working in India`s favour. The portal was founded by

the influential Birla family, which runs The Hindustan

Times, one of the country`s main daily newspapers. The

start-up received $11 million in seed capital from Chase

Capital Partners, the private-equity arm of Chase

Manhattan Bank. Indeed, Chase is so optimistic about

the New Economy in India that it has made Bombay,

not Hong Kong or Singapore, its centre for Asian

technology investments.

And that`s part of the story as well. Money used to be

both a major constraint and a competitive disadvantage

for Indian companies. At about 27%, Indian savings

rates are low by Asian standards. That low savings rate

and the government`s voracious appetite for funds has

led to a combined state and federal fiscal deficit

approaching 9% of GDP and interest rates much higher

than those elsewhere in the region. But that was

yesterday`s drawback. Now, as equity investors

discover the Subcontinent, Indian companies have

access to another source of capital.

Nobody better understands just how dramatically

circumstances have changed than Ajit Balakrishnan,

one of India`s few and foremost serial entrepreneurs. At

the end of June, Balakrishnan`s rediff.com listed on

America`s Nasdaq market, becoming the first Indian

portal to do so. The initial public offering was 19 times

oversubscribed and the stock price rose 61%, to

$19.31, on the first day of trading. The timing of the

listing was especially noteworthy, coming when

dotcoms were universally out of favour with investors.

``The advent of all this capital is a wonderful thing. It has

unleashed an energy here which is unbelievable,`` says

Balakrishnan in his Bombay office. ``In the past, there

was no risk capital. There was no way to bring

innovation to fruition.``

When Rediff was founded in 1995, Balakrishnan

funded the company himself using profits from an

advertising business he had built up earlier. He later

raised $20 million from offshore investors including

Draper International, Intel, Citicorp, General Electric

and Warburg Pincus. The capital that Balakrishnan and

other entrepreneurs have raised is smart money.

``Investors like Bill Draper gave us a road map for how

a company evolves,`` he says. ``The capital we got gave

us both connections and insight.``

These top-flight investors are drawn to companies like

Rediff because they stand up to international

comparisons in a number of areas. These include

costs--the ``burn rate`` at which Indian companies spend

their backers` money is lower than elsewhere--as well

as product quality and the size of the potential market.

Rediff, for example, offers an English-language site in

addition to sites in Hindi, Gujarati, Tamil and Telugu, all

major local languages. That means it already competes

with Yahoo! and other international giants.

By the time Rediff listed, the combination of

Balakrishnan`s vision and his investors` experience had

created a world-class company. The company now has

a market capitalization of $600 million, despite the fact

that India has just 1 million Internet users. China, by

comparison, has 10 million Internet users.

Rediff is about content. But most companies that are

powering the New Economy are more about

technology. Many analysts expected them to be a

passing phenomenon, so-called body shops tuning up

Old Economy companies fearful of the millennium bug.

Instead they have upgraded themselves into

software-services companies that are increasingly

getting the crucial assignments that used to be kept

in-house. ``They can do the mission-critical tasks on a

timely basis,`` says Ajay Kapur, regional strategist for

Morgan Stanley Dean Witter in Hong Kong.

ATTRACTING FOREIGN INVESTORS

The magnetic pull of India`s software industry is

attracting more than just foreign investors. Some of the

world`s most impressive technology powerhouses, such

as Lucent Technologies, are now also on the ground in

Bangalore. And they are seeing results. The work that

Indians at Texas Instruments` Bangalore centre

pioneered on integrated circuits and software design

was the basis for several patents that TI applied for

back in the United States. Would-be competitors are

now flocking to Bangalore to learn the secret. ``Fifteen

out of the twenty companies which have received the

highest international recognition for software are

Indian,`` points out Lu Ke, head of the Bangalore

research efforts of Huawei Technologies, a Chinese

telecoms equipment maker based in Shenzhen, near

Hong Kong. ``The software-management process is so

good in India. We can improve so much if we study

why Indian software is so good.``

The changes aren`t just confined to the New Economy.

The traditional business families of India, urged on by

the cruel realities of the market, are also transforming

their Old Economy behemoths at a speed that makes

most of the tycoons of Southeast Asia seem

somnambulant by comparison. Two of India`s leading

families, the Tatas (with 80 group companies in

everything from steel to telecoms) and the Birlas (with a

conglomerate ranging from cement to financial

services), used to be arch rivals. Now they are working

together in select areas to take advantage of new

opportunities and inviting foreigners with strategic

knowledge to join them. ``If you aren`t forward-looking,

the market is penalizing you,`` says Desai of JM Morgan

Stanley in Bombay. ``That means no market cap and no

capital to restructure.``

Although the Indian government isn`t known for

business-friendly attitudes, it`s hard to see how it can

derail the promise of India. At this point, it can only

slow the growth or feed it. The Indian miracle is partly

built on the country`s fiercely competitive technical and

management institutes, which produce about 10,000

graduates a year. But that meets only about one-tenth

of current demand for hi-tech workers. The government

needs to upgrade and expand its other engineering

facilities and push forward in deregulating key areas of

the economy. Had it been speedier about deregulating

telecoms, for example, the nation`s Internet industry

would be more advanced than it is today.

``There is no comparison between a Shanghai and a

Bangalore in terms of infrastructure,`` says Narayana

Murthy, CEO of Infosys Technologies, a top

software-services firm that listed on Nasdaq in March

last year. ``But we can`t wait for the government. We

have found solutions despite the government. We`ve

shown we can succeed in spite of the environment.``

No firm in India has a better shot at future success than

giant Reliance Industries. As one of the world`s

largest and most competitive petrochemical and refinery

operations, Reliance accounts for 3% of the country`s

GDP, according to company data. It has started

implementing plans to automate its entire procurement

process and is considering how best to position itself in

a virtual chemicals marketplace. Moreover, Reliance

has announced a new telecoms strategy and has a $15

billion market capitalization to help finance its ambitions.

Reliance holds the right to provide booming Gujarat

state with basic telecoms services and has cellular rights

for a vast expanse of north and eastern India.

Perhaps voicing the hopes of the new professionals

returning to and being developed in India, Reliance

Chairman Dhirubhai Ambani told his company`s annual

general meeting in mid-June: ``We believe there is a

one-time opportunity for the Indian economy to

leapfrog from its current inadequate infrastructure to a

super, world-class digital infrastructure.`` Making that

leap and landing on its feet will take all the talent and

brainpower India can muster.

------The End.

The jist of the logic being, it is not just body selling. What started off as BS, fueled a host of industrial and infrastructure developments that could have a far-reaching implications. Remember the coming of the old wheel! The world has never, TG, been the same again.

Now, go back to your drawing boards to rationalise your professional, political, religious, WE, envies, biases and jealousies.

PS: Sorry,the paste job seems to have run into a formatting problem.

arios,

Kant..............

What`s the deal with all these self gratifying statistics?

There are enough statistics posted here by arrogant Indians to fill a whole new book.

Shall we call it

``We Are The Champions of Numbers?``

pathetic

There can be no better message than the line``Live and let live``. As a sensible Indian I am with you Ferozk, another sensible Pakistani.

Cheers

gymnosophist

A few misconceptions need to be cleared -

(1)I am not Indian.

(2)Body shopping sure thats what may be Indians are doing - but still you need good intelligent bodies to shop. Hey where do the bodies for this activity come from In Pakistan. the law of numbers and ability and training come into the picture.

(3) There are many good colleges in India producing far more than is required by India and substantially more than pakistan can dream of producing in the near future.

(4) The problem with you is that you need to take logic 101 course. Look at it this way - India said IT gaint and started reeling of figures and suddenly you have the paindoos from back home sitting up and saying hey this is the reason we got buggered in Kargil - see amreeka wants the Indian stuff - if they can why not us. And suddenly all the claim of TNT etc vanish - we are all of the same pool and hey they do it we do it too. So now the paindoos run after something which

is just a mirage. Now the Indians are talking of leading edge knowledge economy and sure they might even succeed at it in the future (in 10 years time - who knows - you are not a clairvoyant are you now). Suddenly after running af the IT mirage the paindoos in 10 years time when they get their arse kicked once again will start saying hey these Indians have again got the support of amreeka since they are providing the knowledge and bingo they go chasing after this

as I said - living in a never never land where realities get distorted and peter pans are forver young fighting the dreaded pirate and crocodiles in the swamps.

The present rreality is so distorted for the paindoos that anything however ephimeral is clung onto as a saviour. They are caught in a vicious cycle from which they do seem to be able to get out of (rather not willing to). A visit to the land of Pakistan will tell this as much.

The elite are the paindoos here not the poor uneducated masses. For them the reality is there everyday to see. Welcome to the world of Moth smoke and the air-conditioned life (as was else where on Chowk).