The Imperatives of Power
Haider Nizamani October 4, 2000
#182 Posted by nair on October 25, 2000 2:22:58 pm
Mohajir #181
The interview cracked me up.No wonder Pakistan is in the gutter.
The interview cracked me up.No wonder Pakistan is in the gutter.
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#181 Posted by mohajir on October 25, 2000 1:00:13 am
http://www.nation.com.pk/inset.htm
Interview with Pakistani CEO Parvez Musharraff
Q. You claim the final word.Genetically speaking, are Indians and Pakistani`s the same?
A. I think that they are very different in many ways.
Q. Physically or character-wise, the two nations are different?
A. I think both ways. Physically and also character-wise.
Q. How many children do you have?
A. Two. A son and daughter.
Q. If your daughter would come and tell you that she would like to marry an Indian .... a terrific Indian. ``A doctor``, Would you object?
A. If it`s a Muslim Indian I wouldn`t. If it`s a Hindu Indian I would certainly object.
Q. You would object? If she would be willing to marry, let`s say, a Catholic American, Irish American?
A. I would again object.
Q. You requested international mediation of the UN Aren`t you concerned that just because of India`s reputation as a democratic country, (``the greatest democracy in the world``) This mediation will tilt in favour of India because its a democracy?
A. Well, we have demanded mediation, but mediation does not mean that we will automatically accept whatever the mediator concludes even if it is wrongfully tilting to the other side. We will certainly not accept it.
Q. Do you think that Pakistan, in general, Pakistani society, treats its minorities or different ethnic groups better or worse than India treats it own?
A. 200 times better! Q. 200 times better? A. If not more. I`m very sure of that and this is, again, an unfortunate wrong perception that Indians create against Pakistan, of our being not accommodating enough against the minorities and our having extremist attitudes towards the minorities. There is nothing farther than the truth.
Q. With the risk of irritating you, you said a short time ago that you would not be happy to see your daughter marrying a Catholic or a non-Muslim. Doesn`t this reflect some kind of intolerance towards,...
A. No, I would beg to differ. This is not intolerance. I would love to interact with anybody of any religion and I have been interacting. I have been abroad and I`ve been interacting, in fact, let me tell you that when I was at the Royal College of Defense Studies, I respected the Israeli officer very much and my interaction with him and also with his wife was very pleasant. So I have no intolerance against any kind of interaction. But when it comes to marriages that you are talking of, now this is a totally different issue. There are cultural differences involved and there are societal differences involved and therefore that is the reason when I said that I would not like my daughter to be married to a Hindu Indian, that doesn`t mean that I am intolerant. I interacted very well with the Indian Hindu officer who was there on the same course. He was my neighbour and we interacted very well with him.
Q. You point a finger at the media, saying that the media tilts strongly toward the Indian side?
A. Yes. Certainly. I strongly believe that this is the case. There are a lot of Indians in the media, controlling the media and that is the unfortunate part, they distort facts. Actually perceptions that are not the reality.
Q. You are speaking about Indians who work as English journalists in England, and American journalists in America? Are you claiming that their heart is really with India? A. First of all there are a lot of Indians in all places in the international media .... television, newspaper .
Q. Sure. There are talented Indians.
A. These Indians do have actually an interest themselves, and they also influence others, those who are around them, those of other nationalities.
Q. A plebiscite was offered in Kashmir by the United Nations in 1948. Do you still want it?
A. Yes. Certainly. That is our position.
Q. Now, going back to what you said before, If the results would be pro-India, would you still accept them?
A. Well, I am more than hundred percent sure that the (plebiscite-R.L.)results will not be pro-India.
Q. What if the people of Kashmir will vote for independence?
A. There`s no room for that. They have to vote either for India or for Pakistan.
Q. Kindly mention to me the four countries that are good friends of Pakistan.
A. Okay. Number one, China. Turkey. Saudi Arabia. Abu Dhabi.
Q. Abu Dhabi is not a very big country.
A. (Here the Pakistani Ambassador suddenly joins in, and corrects his chief executive: ``UAE, United Arab Emirates, and the chief executive accepts.)
Q. You don`t count the United States as one.
A. Well.
Q. I said ``good`` friends.
A. We have been good friends but not all that. ..
Q. Do you think that the nuclear weapons now present in both India and Pakistan make the sub-continent more, or less secure?
A. More secure, I think.
Q. The people of India and Pakistan have shared a history of several thousand years, shared language, shared cuisine, music and common culture. Yet, there are more Muslims remaining in India than there are in Pakistan. Is that true?
A. Population wise, is this true. I don`t think it is true that India has more Muslim than we have. But I would like to comment on the first part when you talked about our history and our commonality. I do beg to differ. Our history is totally different. Our heroes are their villains and vice-versa. Our culture is absolute the opposite. They consider cows as their gods. We slaughter cows and eat them .
Q. Didn`t India`s culture stem partly from the area of what is Pakistan now?
A. No. The Buddhist culture originated from Pakistan. But the Hindu culture did not originate from Pakistan.
Ranan R. Lurie is a Senior Adjunct Fellow with the CSIS, The Washington based think tank, the political cartoonist for FOREIGN AFFAIRS magazine, and an internationally syndicated political analyst/cartoonist
http://www.foreignaffairs.org
http://www.csis.org
Interview with Pakistani CEO Parvez Musharraff
Q. You claim the final word.Genetically speaking, are Indians and Pakistani`s the same?
A. I think that they are very different in many ways.
Q. Physically or character-wise, the two nations are different?
A. I think both ways. Physically and also character-wise.
Q. How many children do you have?
A. Two. A son and daughter.
Q. If your daughter would come and tell you that she would like to marry an Indian .... a terrific Indian. ``A doctor``, Would you object?
A. If it`s a Muslim Indian I wouldn`t. If it`s a Hindu Indian I would certainly object.
Q. You would object? If she would be willing to marry, let`s say, a Catholic American, Irish American?
A. I would again object.
Q. You requested international mediation of the UN Aren`t you concerned that just because of India`s reputation as a democratic country, (``the greatest democracy in the world``) This mediation will tilt in favour of India because its a democracy?
A. Well, we have demanded mediation, but mediation does not mean that we will automatically accept whatever the mediator concludes even if it is wrongfully tilting to the other side. We will certainly not accept it.
Q. Do you think that Pakistan, in general, Pakistani society, treats its minorities or different ethnic groups better or worse than India treats it own?
A. 200 times better! Q. 200 times better? A. If not more. I`m very sure of that and this is, again, an unfortunate wrong perception that Indians create against Pakistan, of our being not accommodating enough against the minorities and our having extremist attitudes towards the minorities. There is nothing farther than the truth.
Q. With the risk of irritating you, you said a short time ago that you would not be happy to see your daughter marrying a Catholic or a non-Muslim. Doesn`t this reflect some kind of intolerance towards,...
A. No, I would beg to differ. This is not intolerance. I would love to interact with anybody of any religion and I have been interacting. I have been abroad and I`ve been interacting, in fact, let me tell you that when I was at the Royal College of Defense Studies, I respected the Israeli officer very much and my interaction with him and also with his wife was very pleasant. So I have no intolerance against any kind of interaction. But when it comes to marriages that you are talking of, now this is a totally different issue. There are cultural differences involved and there are societal differences involved and therefore that is the reason when I said that I would not like my daughter to be married to a Hindu Indian, that doesn`t mean that I am intolerant. I interacted very well with the Indian Hindu officer who was there on the same course. He was my neighbour and we interacted very well with him.
Q. You point a finger at the media, saying that the media tilts strongly toward the Indian side?
A. Yes. Certainly. I strongly believe that this is the case. There are a lot of Indians in the media, controlling the media and that is the unfortunate part, they distort facts. Actually perceptions that are not the reality.
Q. You are speaking about Indians who work as English journalists in England, and American journalists in America? Are you claiming that their heart is really with India? A. First of all there are a lot of Indians in all places in the international media .... television, newspaper .
Q. Sure. There are talented Indians.
A. These Indians do have actually an interest themselves, and they also influence others, those who are around them, those of other nationalities.
Q. A plebiscite was offered in Kashmir by the United Nations in 1948. Do you still want it?
A. Yes. Certainly. That is our position.
Q. Now, going back to what you said before, If the results would be pro-India, would you still accept them?
A. Well, I am more than hundred percent sure that the (plebiscite-R.L.)results will not be pro-India.
Q. What if the people of Kashmir will vote for independence?
A. There`s no room for that. They have to vote either for India or for Pakistan.
Q. Kindly mention to me the four countries that are good friends of Pakistan.
A. Okay. Number one, China. Turkey. Saudi Arabia. Abu Dhabi.
Q. Abu Dhabi is not a very big country.
A. (Here the Pakistani Ambassador suddenly joins in, and corrects his chief executive: ``UAE, United Arab Emirates, and the chief executive accepts.)
Q. You don`t count the United States as one.
A. Well.
Q. I said ``good`` friends.
A. We have been good friends but not all that. ..
Q. Do you think that the nuclear weapons now present in both India and Pakistan make the sub-continent more, or less secure?
A. More secure, I think.
Q. The people of India and Pakistan have shared a history of several thousand years, shared language, shared cuisine, music and common culture. Yet, there are more Muslims remaining in India than there are in Pakistan. Is that true?
A. Population wise, is this true. I don`t think it is true that India has more Muslim than we have. But I would like to comment on the first part when you talked about our history and our commonality. I do beg to differ. Our history is totally different. Our heroes are their villains and vice-versa. Our culture is absolute the opposite. They consider cows as their gods. We slaughter cows and eat them .
Q. Didn`t India`s culture stem partly from the area of what is Pakistan now?
A. No. The Buddhist culture originated from Pakistan. But the Hindu culture did not originate from Pakistan.
Ranan R. Lurie is a Senior Adjunct Fellow with the CSIS, The Washington based think tank, the political cartoonist for FOREIGN AFFAIRS magazine, and an internationally syndicated political analyst/cartoonist
http://www.foreignaffairs.org
http://www.csis.org
#180 Posted by jay on October 19, 2000 12:49:33 pm
Power of govt,
Reading the chowk one might be misled to believe that all pakistanis are devoid of ideas, can only repeat jihadic interpretations and versions of kashmir war, but there are real smart pakistanis back home, who can come up with a clanker or two to solve the countries problems. From dawn of today,
``The second way to induce Pakistanis earning their livelihood on work permits is to put a condition on renewal of passports or replacement of identity cards at the embassies. Anyone who has a work permit and has dependents here must show proof of US$ 500 per year remittance through the official banking channels otherwise the passport would not be renewed.
Thus, if only one million workers out of the 4.5 million get their passports renewed every year, the government would get a confirmed amount of US$ 500 apart from other remittances. This would ``motivate`` Pakistanis working outside to avoid the non-banking system to remit money here.``
///Now the chowkwallahs , how many of you have paid the 500 bucks so that you can treasure the passport which you got by condemning the ahmadias, any way.
Reading the chowk one might be misled to believe that all pakistanis are devoid of ideas, can only repeat jihadic interpretations and versions of kashmir war, but there are real smart pakistanis back home, who can come up with a clanker or two to solve the countries problems. From dawn of today,
``The second way to induce Pakistanis earning their livelihood on work permits is to put a condition on renewal of passports or replacement of identity cards at the embassies. Anyone who has a work permit and has dependents here must show proof of US$ 500 per year remittance through the official banking channels otherwise the passport would not be renewed.
Thus, if only one million workers out of the 4.5 million get their passports renewed every year, the government would get a confirmed amount of US$ 500 apart from other remittances. This would ``motivate`` Pakistanis working outside to avoid the non-banking system to remit money here.``
///Now the chowkwallahs , how many of you have paid the 500 bucks so that you can treasure the passport which you got by condemning the ahmadias, any way.
#179 Posted by krashid on October 19, 2000 1:17:24 am
Pennanthur #171
Drink for your BRAVE 600 soldiers who laid their life gloriously to defend the secularism in Kashmir last year. (In Kashmir only secularism is defended and democracy messed up. May be you know it?)
Drink for your BRAVE 600 soldiers who laid their life gloriously to defend the secularism in Kashmir last year. (In Kashmir only secularism is defended and democracy messed up. May be you know it?)
#178 Posted by Awakening Hopef on October 18, 2000 8:57:32 am
Re: Tahmed # 942
Yes well, you see this is what happened....
I was the first born to the Pharaoh who was cursed by the sun gods to die at the hands of his first offspring so unbeknownst to the great Pharaoh who would have rather allowed destiny to take its course, his more pragmatic second queen found it more expeditious to instruct her favorite maid to swath me in a bundle of blankets, stuff me in a straw basket and float me down the Nile which traces its way through the upper delta that houses the fisherman village which had a Chieftain named Salim Chappu, a name appropriately derived from his trade and his glorious possession of the Golden Chappu that had been passed on to him down the generations to sanctify his rightful position as the village chieftain that gave him first right to any discovered assets in the region which he judiciously used to commandeer my cherubic self that was one misty morning floating down the river and named me Latif Chappu and taught me the lessons of life and war which I later greatly utilized to slay my biological father the Pharaoh and slaughter his army in the mother of all wars at Al Kahira after which I migrated to the united states and am currently and ironically employed at a sea food restaurant on the fisherman`s wharf bussing empty bread bowls that used to contain shell fragment infested New England Clam Chowder!
So in a nutshell therefore, it is a tribe of some kind and yes... it has something to do with boating.
Yes well, you see this is what happened....
I was the first born to the Pharaoh who was cursed by the sun gods to die at the hands of his first offspring so unbeknownst to the great Pharaoh who would have rather allowed destiny to take its course, his more pragmatic second queen found it more expeditious to instruct her favorite maid to swath me in a bundle of blankets, stuff me in a straw basket and float me down the Nile which traces its way through the upper delta that houses the fisherman village which had a Chieftain named Salim Chappu, a name appropriately derived from his trade and his glorious possession of the Golden Chappu that had been passed on to him down the generations to sanctify his rightful position as the village chieftain that gave him first right to any discovered assets in the region which he judiciously used to commandeer my cherubic self that was one misty morning floating down the river and named me Latif Chappu and taught me the lessons of life and war which I later greatly utilized to slay my biological father the Pharaoh and slaughter his army in the mother of all wars at Al Kahira after which I migrated to the united states and am currently and ironically employed at a sea food restaurant on the fisherman`s wharf bussing empty bread bowls that used to contain shell fragment infested New England Clam Chowder!
So in a nutshell therefore, it is a tribe of some kind and yes... it has something to do with boating.
#177 Posted by scout on October 17, 2000 9:38:51 pm
Awakening Hopeful,
NO MAN HAS THE POWER TO HURT ME!
Maybe physically but not mentally.
But thanks for showing concern :).
That was very sweet of you.
NO MAN HAS THE POWER TO HURT ME!
Maybe physically but not mentally.
But thanks for showing concern :).
That was very sweet of you.
#176 Posted by rsaxena on October 17, 2000 11:41:07 am
Re: Awakening Hopeful
``If a flame throwing match lights a fire to continually make scout feel hurt and angry, why do you continually throw those flame lit matches?``
Don`t worry, the flames are thrown both ways.
``If a flame throwing match lights a fire to continually make scout feel hurt and angry, why do you continually throw those flame lit matches?``
Don`t worry, the flames are thrown both ways.
#175 Posted by Awakening Hopef on October 17, 2000 10:51:50 am
devkant #945 ``i can also safely assume that in your formidable years`` You meant ``formative``, not ``formidable``. I will have to report this to Sir Temporal.
A Paki would never make such a dumb mistake: Now write back ten posts to refute this baseless allegation (as the formidable South Asian foreign office babus would put it). Help us achieve a 1000 posts on this board.
A Paki would never make such a dumb mistake: Now write back ten posts to refute this baseless allegation (as the formidable South Asian foreign office babus would put it). Help us achieve a 1000 posts on this board.
#174 Posted by Awakening Hopef on October 17, 2000 10:51:50 am
latif chappu #934 I second the motion. We need some ylh machine gun posts to take us to a thousand. Ylh, you heard what he said - so go for it. Permit me to add that the Gray Wolf was actually a bit Pink, if you know what I mean. Hopefully this will spur you to action.
In the interests of fairness, allow me to say this to what-his-name jay: We Pakis are ten feet tall, we proclaim complete and utter superiority in everything, Pakistan`s GNP is actually 28% and you dont know it, we can beat you in cricket any day. So: write back and humiliate us and put us in our place. Send not one letter but many. Cross the thousand before this dumb board is history.
And as your you latif sahib, is chappu a tribe of some kind. Anything to do with boating?
In the interests of fairness, allow me to say this to what-his-name jay: We Pakis are ten feet tall, we proclaim complete and utter superiority in everything, Pakistan`s GNP is actually 28% and you dont know it, we can beat you in cricket any day. So: write back and humiliate us and put us in our place. Send not one letter but many. Cross the thousand before this dumb board is history.
And as your you latif sahib, is chappu a tribe of some kind. Anything to do with boating?
#173 Posted by Awakening Hopef on October 17, 2000 10:51:50 am
Re: all, esp. Yawaah Latifay Hamdani:
All right people... we are at interact no. 931 here.
Bilal Musharraf`s `My pappi is a good munchkin` article holds the record at 1189 replies. That means we have only 258 more interacts to go. Now shake it off get your asses in play!
Lets take it one interact at a time and give our 110% people... move it, move it, move it!!
For my part I am going to double post this message and issue the following statements that might `inspire` our superstar to bring his A game:
Hey YLH:
1. Gandhi is far more respected and revered compared to Jinnah.
2. Secular Islamic governance in an oxymoron.
3. Pakistan will never be a moderate state.
4. Imran will never be the leader of Pakistan.
Whaddaya haveta saytadat?
Now go ahead and give us hell sport. Do it for the gipper!
LC
All right people... we are at interact no. 931 here.
Bilal Musharraf`s `My pappi is a good munchkin` article holds the record at 1189 replies. That means we have only 258 more interacts to go. Now shake it off get your asses in play!
Lets take it one interact at a time and give our 110% people... move it, move it, move it!!
For my part I am going to double post this message and issue the following statements that might `inspire` our superstar to bring his A game:
Hey YLH:
1. Gandhi is far more respected and revered compared to Jinnah.
2. Secular Islamic governance in an oxymoron.
3. Pakistan will never be a moderate state.
4. Imran will never be the leader of Pakistan.
Whaddaya haveta saytadat?
Now go ahead and give us hell sport. Do it for the gipper!
LC
#172 Posted by manoj on October 17, 2000 1:42:31 am
Dear krashid,
I thought 90,000 of your jehadis soiled their pants in 1971 , siachen, kargil ( Nawaz and Mushy soiled theirs) :-) it still smells awful
I thought 90,000 of your jehadis soiled their pants in 1971 , siachen, kargil ( Nawaz and Mushy soiled theirs) :-) it still smells awful
#171 Posted by pennathur on October 17, 2000 1:42:31 am
If ``ethnic suppression`` means wiping out a few greasy thugs and cut-throats from Pakistan masquerading as ``freedom fighters`` I am all for it.
It`s good to hear of a turkey-shoot where a few thugs are butchered every now and then!
I will drink to that. And that`s the onle language cut-throat duffers understand.
As for the rest out here, rant and rave till you are blue in the face. It doesn`t make a darned difference!!
It`s good to hear of a turkey-shoot where a few thugs are butchered every now and then!
I will drink to that. And that`s the onle language cut-throat duffers understand.
As for the rest out here, rant and rave till you are blue in the face. It doesn`t make a darned difference!!
#170 Posted by rsaxena on October 16, 2000 10:54:24 pm
Re: scout
``Did I say anything about India`s secularity?``
Yes, and I quote those two lines from your previous message: (1) ``Has your ``jhanda`` (flag) of secularism stopped ethnic/religous violence in India?`` and (2) ``Leave freedom, democracy, and secularism to the United States. India has a longggggggggg way to go``
``(by calling me Ms. Maulana for no reason)``
Sorry about that. That`s just my easily excitable personality flaw.
``It`s not even a discussion on your part, it`s plain out bullying.``
Not really. It`s a typical flame throwing match no different than the ones from before.
``Did I say anything about India`s secularity?``
Yes, and I quote those two lines from your previous message: (1) ``Has your ``jhanda`` (flag) of secularism stopped ethnic/religous violence in India?`` and (2) ``Leave freedom, democracy, and secularism to the United States. India has a longggggggggg way to go``
``(by calling me Ms. Maulana for no reason)``
Sorry about that. That`s just my easily excitable personality flaw.
``It`s not even a discussion on your part, it`s plain out bullying.``
Not really. It`s a typical flame throwing match no different than the ones from before.
#169 Posted by krashid on October 16, 2000 10:54:24 pm
RSaxena #159
I remember you left your Dhoti near Brooklyn Bridge and City has to call whole department to clean the mess.
Manoj#
Sermon to Indians:-). It is given to people who have a tendency to understand. For closed minds we only give our Jihadis.
And off course the Indian gutter is spreading its smell to all of south Asia.The thing which your smelling from Pakistan side is basically a spread from your own backyard, with its origin in India.
I remember you left your Dhoti near Brooklyn Bridge and City has to call whole department to clean the mess.
Manoj#
Sermon to Indians:-). It is given to people who have a tendency to understand. For closed minds we only give our Jihadis.
And off course the Indian gutter is spreading its smell to all of south Asia.The thing which your smelling from Pakistan side is basically a spread from your own backyard, with its origin in India.
#168 Posted by krashid on October 16, 2000 10:54:24 pm
Scout #162
The point I was trying to present is that instead of justifying killings, suppressions and ethnic and religious violence in the name of democracy and secularism. These incidences should be condemned forcefully as wrong.
What is democracy.It is not voting into power of a fascist party to curb the minorities and states by the majority group. It is Fascism.
On another Board someone was telling that Hitler was not voted into power. What if Hitler was voted into power (which he did) does it make him and his party less of a fascist.
The point I was trying to present is that instead of justifying killings, suppressions and ethnic and religious violence in the name of democracy and secularism. These incidences should be condemned forcefully as wrong.
What is democracy.It is not voting into power of a fascist party to curb the minorities and states by the majority group. It is Fascism.
On another Board someone was telling that Hitler was not voted into power. What if Hitler was voted into power (which he did) does it make him and his party less of a fascist.
#167 Posted by scout on October 16, 2000 9:43:33 pm
RSaxena #whatever,
Did I say anything about India`s secularity?
Why are you so obsessed with religion and Islam (by calling me Ms. Maulana for no reason), that you have to bring it into every discussion of yours?
It`s not even a discussion on your part, it`s plain out bullying. I remember teenagers like you from high school.
I`m keeping ``my trap shut`` as you rudely put it, for now, because I have some important matters to take care of, not because you`ve bullied me and I`ve run away.
Don`t you forget that!
That will be all from me to you for a couple of months.
I hope you`ve recovered from your prejudices/racism by then.
scout
Did I say anything about India`s secularity?
Why are you so obsessed with religion and Islam (by calling me Ms. Maulana for no reason), that you have to bring it into every discussion of yours?
It`s not even a discussion on your part, it`s plain out bullying. I remember teenagers like you from high school.
I`m keeping ``my trap shut`` as you rudely put it, for now, because I have some important matters to take care of, not because you`ve bullied me and I`ve run away.
Don`t you forget that!
That will be all from me to you for a couple of months.
I hope you`ve recovered from your prejudices/racism by then.
scout
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