A critical look at Indian telecom policy in the ’90s

dost-mittar #40 With this board off the front page, I guess our discussion too can end. Thanks for providing your perspective on this important question of democracy vs. dictatorship and hope to see your posts on some other board.

PS I cant resist noting how Ayub Khan, whom you mention, is a good example of how even the most benign of dictators can in the long run pave the road to hell: Ayub had the right priorities (he felt very strongly about things like mass education and population control) and strong administrative skills. And yet all this proved useful to the country for only four years (1960-65). He started the precedence of military coups in Pakistan which gave us perhaps the most evil ruler the subcontinent has seen in a thousand years (Zia). It was his ego (and that of his foreign minister, Bhutto), not popular consensus, that led to the war to liberate Kashmir (as we Pakistanis saw it) in 1965. It is still to early to tell where Pervez Musharraf takes us, but I fervently pray that he has the good sense to step down next year as called for by the Supreme Court. If he can fix a few things while he is around, that is fine.

dost-mittar #36 Your point concerning the difficulty in opening up free markets is well taken. However, I think the introduction of dictatorship (even one of the most well-meaning and intelligent kind) in order to fix problems of investor apathy or power theft is a bit like burning the house down in order to roast your chicken.

In any case, I dont think that undue government meddling in the economy can be attributed to democracy: the US has been a foremost champion of democracy (certainly for it`s internal politics, and to a very large extent - though not fully - for the rest of the world as well) for over two centures. And the US has also stood for private enterprise during this time. In fact, it was a dictatorial form of government - communism as practiced in the Soviet Union - which confused more people than anything else almost throughout the 20th century in this matter, and provided the intellectual underpinnings for nationalization in the newly liberated third world of the mid-20th century. Something that many third world leaders found very convenient - they gained more power over the country`s resources and at the same time could equate these actions with freedom from European colonization.

dost-mittar #35 Democracy may not be the optimal form of government for India at it`s current stage of development. However, it is said that the best is the enemy of the good. Also, remember that the real engines of growth in any economy are the entrepreneurs, who are all in the private sector and so the form of government is only indirectly relevant to economic progress in South Asia today. And right now, India is chugging along quite well in this area.

There will always be corrupt politicians of the kind you mention in India - look at the US and what Bill Clinton was doing in the Oval Office while everyone thought he was worrying about global issues :-), and look at all the efforts at campaign finance reform in this country. So, I suspect you will have corrupt politicans in India and Pakistan and other countries for a long long time to come.

However, in a democracy, there will always be a free press and political opposition ready to properly expose and humiliate corrupt pols as well. Difficult to do this with a dictator.

Asim Hayat Reply # 33

(Though in all earnest I have to admit that I deliberately changed the punch line from being a jibe at Pakistani inference skills to an indian one to suit the article being discussed.. I dont think that was too wrong...:))

aae hae..saaara mazaa kharab hogyaaaaaa

dost-mittar #32 You write ``As long as Indians continue to delude themselves that parliamentary democracy is a substitute of good governance,``

Someone (I think it was Churchill) said that democracy is the worst form of government - except for all the alternatives.

My own view is that while in the short run (ten or fifteen years) a non-democratic government may get countries moving (like Korea under Park, or Malaysia under whatshisname), at some point they must be replaced by democratic governments if society is to continue progress beyond the middle income level to the front ranks of the developed world. This is because, lacking checks and balances provided by democracy, those in power tend after some time to become corrupt or (worse) become arrogant in their own wisdom and therefore a block to further change. As India is showing to the world today, you can have democracy and 7% growth rates as well: I think this is a wonderful development that will ultimately have a very beneficial impact on the entire world (including other countries in South Asia, including Pakistan, as Burki recently pointed out for example).

So, if it aint broke, dont fix it: Democracy has worked well for India, just make sure it stays that way. The rest of us will catch up some day.

``Asim Hayat Reply # 30

LOL..funny funny man...``

Anny,

Adaab. Yours truly was also ROTFL after reading this one. I m aglad you liked it too.

Though in all earnest I have to admit that I deliberately changed the punch line from being a jibe at Pakistani inference skills to an indian one to suit the article being discussed.. I dont think that was too wrong...:)

How is that for honesty!

Asim

Asim Hayat Reply # 30

LOL..funny funny man...

dost-mittar #27 I am not in favor of quota systems since, while providing jobs to some people (there being a few million government jobs in India, and about a million in Pakistan, all told) it detracts from the fact that government jobs are there for the benefit of society and not for the benefit of the job holder. This then becomes the root of many evils, and ultimately the entire society pays a heavy price for providing jobs to a few million. Better to just give these people the amount of their monthly salary each month and tell them to stay at home. This way at least society does not have to suffer at their hands as well pay them for it.

On Indian Telecoms and the value of scientific reasoning!

In December 2000 after digging to a depth of 100m, Russians discovered

copper wiring dating back 1000 years and came to the conclusion that their

ancestors already had a telephone network one thousand years ago.

In the weeks that followed, Americans dug 200m, and headlines in the US

newspapers read:- ``US scientists have found traces of 2000 year old optical

fibers, and have concluded that their ancestors already had advanced

high-tech digital telephone 1000 years earlier than the Russians.``

Later that month the Indian press reported the following:- ``After digging

as deep as 500m(thanks to ONGC drilling expertise), Indian scientists

have found absolutely nothing. They have concluded that 5000 years ago,

their ancestors were already using wireless communication``.

tahmed,

sorry to confuse you so much. When a liar says that `he is a liar`, is it a lie or is it truth.

Please respond to me only when you have an answer.

regards and best wishes for weeks of sleepless nights.

jay.

jay: you write ``So when I say that I am sitting on river bank on this rainy day, it is either `true` true, or that is what I would like you to believe as truth or other wise.``

So, in additional to being hate-filled and irrational, and proud of it, you are a liar (as you proudly explain above) as well. As I just responded in my post on the other board on chicken hawks, I pity the people (particularly your spouse who must be really suffering now that you are retired and gracing the house with your wisdom all day long) who have to associate with you in real life.

And dont confuse your single-track hate-filled posts with ``exchange of ideas``. You wouldnt recognize an idea if it came and kicked your hiney.

re anamika #20:

One needs to look outside the traditional avenues of direct foreign investment to understand the potential for Pak-India economic cooperation. There has been talk of Pakistan selling its excess electric power to India(of course nixed by the army). The gas pipeline from Iran to India thru Pakistan is a distinct possibility. Energy is probably the most promising arena for possible collaboration between the two countries. The communication area is another possibility. Pakistani communication infrastructure is much superior to India`s. One can use metrics like number of telephone lines/per person to make a comparison. Once foreign entities realize that the two countries have an economic stake in each others prosperity they wouldn`t hesitate in putting money that encompasses both of them.

India cannot become a major power unless it allows its region to share in the economic bounty. Look at regional alliances like the NAFTA or the European union to get a grip on why there is strength in numbers. These regional alliances are never one-way. The benefits accrue not only to the dominant players but other paraticipants also.

later

-sac

Here is an interesting link for Indian telecom buffs:

http://www.kpcb.com/files/bios/STANFORDINDIANOV2000.doc

Vinod Khosla talks about his ideas on how to bring telecom to the masses.

Regards,

tvarad

Arun,

Wake up, Arun, phones are ringing, time to read todays indian express

Andersen benchmarks Indian cell cos against European firms

New Delhi, May 16: Indian cellular companies have overtaken their European counterparts in maturity level related to development, pricing and marketing of products, even as it lags far behind in terms of management of network infrastructure and billing operations, Arthur Andersen said.

According to a benchmark comparison exercise carried out by the international consultancy firm, while Indian cellular companies have attained a maturity level of 2.8 reflecting regular communication and involvement for development and pricing of products (tariffs), European cell firms are still hovering at 1.7 with no formal involvement. ‘‘On a maturity scale of one to five, where one stands for initial and five for optimised maturity level, Indian companies have achieved a level of 2.6 for marketing of products, beating European firms which have scored 2.5,’’ said Sanjay Mehta, partner, Arthur

///pathetic authors home in on chowk

tahmed 123,

Dont take yourself so seriously, and also try to understand the medium. Let me repeat my views on the medium again.

When I respond to `you`, it is not really to you alone, in which case I should have got your e,ail address, rather it is addressed to a larger audience, and `you` just become a focal point.

Chowk is a trading place of ideas, most of the originators are hidden behind psuedonyms and details when provided is at best has to be accepted at face value with no tangible means of varifying. So when I say that I am sitting on river bank on this rainy day, it is either `true` true, or that is what I would like you to believe as truth or other wise.

There was one instance, some pakistani had some brain wave of a [roject to help his country and solicited help on chowk and the response he got was abysmal. A medium that cannot raise a few bobs has no hope of acting as a fountain spring of peace even of the track 100 order

Now this post has a one hell of a lot more of personal `you` content than any I have written in the past. A typical chowk response is on another thread.

regards

jay

Jay #17 ``it comes to me as no surprise that you are disowned``

That was a joke. Hobbyty obviously overlooked my post, and I was obviously kidding. I dont think that despite months of being on chowk, I have had a single Pakistani disagree when I have written about the need to get our priorities straight and use chowk to build up some understanding between Indians and Pakistanis rather than using it as a forum for mudslinging. Nor has any Pakistani disagreed when I have talked about working for peace and prosperity for all, for respecting everyone`s religions, and so forth. Indeed, many chowk posters have written to compliment such posts. And indeed many Indian posters have expressed appreciation as well. So I dont feel isolated at all in talking about respect between Indians and Pakistanis for one another and for other people on this planet as well. You may like posts by hamidm since he, like you, loves to insult Pakistan and Islam. Solitude also spoke out strongly against Islam in the beginning, although he has shown more substance in recent posts (something I cannot say for hamidm).

So: when I talk of respect, I talk about all countries and religions and rest assured that that includes my own country and religion as much as any other. I hope this clarifies my earlier post: it was meant as a joke.

Thanks for the invitation to kerala (I thought you lived in the US, incidentally). I am sure it is a wonderful place - I have a good friend from kerala, and my neice visited that place last year. I must admit now to something very confusing: You are obviously a retired person, well off, living in a nice place like kerala as you indicate. Yet you say that it is ``Nice to spend a well earned retirement, bashing a few pakistanis, other wise giving the words of wisdom to the relatives and friends.`` These words would be in character if you were a good for nothing skinhead, a frustrated young man or something. But I always thought South Indians in general were too far removed from Pakistan to have strong feelings one way or another, and were also more focussed on economic activity than the less educated people of the north (both Indians and Pakistanis). How come you, of all people, seem to hold such a deep hatred for Pakistan and a Pakistan fixation? Even if you hold a grudge, do you seriously think your posts ``bash`` Pakistanis in any way? All they do is provoke similar nasty posts from a few like-minded individuals on chowk. I hope you will think about this, and would look forward to what I hope will be a serious answer.

Thanks again for the invitation to kerala, incidentally. I have to date spent only one full day in India (Delhi) and it was a real treat. I hope to some day visit our ancestral village in East Panjab where some people still remember our family and they responded very warmly to a letter that my aging father sent them a couple of years ago.

You are welcome, if you have any wisdom to share.