The Cling Effect

Re Asif Naqshbandi 20 / hamidm 22

Your quotes on taqdeer or destiny especially 4 just make me think that since God knows everything that Zaid would do in this world.. why on earth Zaid has to be born on this earth ??? why he isn`t sent directly to hell or heaven... whats the point of justifying if everything is extremely accurately written for him (because God is aware of what Zaid will do)... what I mean to say is why God has to justify it to Zaid that though God was aware of what he`ll do still He let Zaid do that bad stuff and now he is to be sent to hell ?.. and whats the point of creating all the human beings if they`ll do exactly the same thing as written in their fate and will end up in heaven or hell.. agreeing with u on this hamidm.. why is Mr. Asif feeling sorry for that person who was murdered?? it was his fate according to u.. isn`t it ??... it was God`s will and its God`s will too to create Taliban right ?... it was bound to happen. He was aware of it from the beginning of the Universe about Zaid and Tom, Dick and Harry... and by the way Kiran- unfortunately most of the scientific discoveries have been made by non-muslims but according to you God chose it to be revealed on them (muslims aren`t doing a good job but still they atleast think and fear God relatively more than those making discoveries.. so ?... and Mr. Asif how the suicide is justified.. is it destined too ??... waiting for these queries to be resolved

Regards

Farzee

An excellent article. You took age old questions and looked at them from very different perspectives. And finally, thanks for writting a cohisive article, logical arguments, and references!

The only question that comes to my mind is: How do you explain the scientific renaissance of the early Muslims?

krashid:

You just pointed the problem out yourself, when you said, ``Beyond Quran,`` that is the reason, for our endless troubles. Where in Quran, does Allah tell you to go and kill people of different sects? Umm, wait! Quran says NOT to create sects. Our problems are self-created, so why cry bloody murder now! When the base goes wrong, even sky-scrapers collapse, never forget that.

moidalam:

Aww, so you wanna fight? Well, I`m not going to give you the satisfaction. However to answer your nonsensical statement regarding my faith: I thought fourth-graders weren`t allowed to say Viagara.

And next time make an effort to come back with something intelligent; or I`ll just ignore your trite remarks.

Try to have a nice day! :)

krashid:

You just pointed the problem out yourself, when you said, ``Beyond Quran,`` that is the reason, for our endless troubles. Where in Quran, does Allah tell you to go and kill people of different sects? Umm, wait! Quran says NOT to create sects. Our problems are self-created, so why cry bloody murder now! When the base goes wrong, even sky-scrapers collapse, never forget that.

moidalam:

Aww, so you wanna fight? Well, I`m not going to give you the satisfaction. However to answer your nonsensical statement regarding my faith: I thought fourth-graders weren`t allowed to say Viagara.

And next time make an effort to come back with something intelligent; or I`ll just ignore your trite remarks.

Try to have a nice day! :)

kiran

``I wonder if blasphemy is the psychological Viagara? Hmm``

Good, striking line!

well if blashemey is really a VIAGRA, then it is perhaps against the impotence of ur faith.

:) how is that?

Kiran #

Why are Sipahe Sahaba Activist killing Barelvi activist and vice versa. Which Islamic way of life is complete.

And which is wrong.

Pray, fast, Give Zakaat, Hajj, refrain from evil, and incite good. Add Usury to list and apply family laws of Islam.

If you can show more to the complete way of life you will be killing each other because each way of life is different beyond Quran. Which incidently is Islam or Islamic way of life.

Wait for unleashing of wars between COMPLETE ways of life in the name of Islam.

Very well-said Asif Naqshbandi (Reply #20) I couldn`t agree more.

Mr. Tanweer Ahmed the problem with the human mind is a rather simple one: If it aquires a higher level of education and I mean higher than the ordinary, it begins questioning its surroundings in a negative manner, thinking it`s doing humanity a favor; though usually just making a fool of itself. You sir, are just that sorry example.

Islam, is a complete way of life, it has answers to inquiries, no other religion allocates. The Holy Quran provides us with those answers. Blaming religion has always been the weapon of feeble minds, whose impotency at solving social problems, reduces them to spew such bile. I wonder if blasphemy is the psychological Viagara? Hmm.

If alluding to Macbeth and Othello were a sign of education, junkies sitting outside the subway stations, would make great professors. Education, is the realization of the ultimate truth: that Allah has given us all free will, and we choose our paths. If only multi-lettered degrees helped one become educated, we wouldn`t have speculating fools such as yourself. And remember Science provides us with answers Allah CHOOSES for us to find out. Why haven`t we found a cure for AIDS yet? Inspite of all the so-called scientific advances why haven`t scientists eliminated genetic disorders? Need I go on.

If only for once people thought about Allah and the legions of the bounties he provides us with, maybe we would then just shut up and say Alhamdolilah, as many times as possible.

May Allah help you see the right path!

Very well-said Asif Naqshbandi (Reply #20) I couldn`t agree more.

Mr. Tanweer Ahmed the problem with the human mind is a rather simple one: If it aquires a higher level of education and I mean higher than the ordinary, it begins questioning its surroundings in a negative manner, thinking it`s doing humanity a favor; though usually just making a fool of itself. You sir, are just that sorry example.

Islam, is a complete way of life, it has answers to inquiries, no other religion allocates. The Holy Quran provides us with those answers. Blaming religion has always been the weapon of feeble minds, whose impotency at solving social problems, reduces them to spew such bile. I wonder if blasphemy is the psychological Viagara? Hmm.

If alluding to Macbeth and Othello were a sign of education, junkies sitting outside the subway stations, would make great professors. Education, is the realization of the ultimate truth: that Allah has given us all free will, and we choose our paths. If only multi-lettered degrees helped one become educated, we wouldn`t have speculating fools such as yourself. And remember Science provides us with answers Allah CHOOSES for us to find out. Why haven`t we found a cure for AIDS yet? Inspite of all the so-called scientific advances why haven`t scientists eliminated genetic disorders? Need I go on.

If only for once people thought about Allah and the legions of the bounties he provides us with, maybe we would then just shut up and say Alhamdolilah, as many times as possible.

May Allah help you see the right path!

HamidM #22

These Days if a Sharmilee from Chichon Ki Malyan gives a call of strike in Karachi against banning of Mujra, people of Karachi will come out with same fervor.

It has nothing to do with pious Maulana`s Islam. The temparature is already high and needs only a small push.

From traders, to industrialist to people sacked from jobs to prices of amenities to Governors rule in Karachi in previous regime to water and electricity crises to police and rangers ad infinitum.

Ai Karachi Marhaba, for showing the rest of country to fight for the rights instead of bowing down to every dictator.

I don`t know what happened to Lahore. It was very vocal against Ayub Khan`s dictatorship.

Asif Naqshbandi:

y weep over Saleem Qadri? if he was innocent, he would be in paradise, f/king the brains out of 70 whores (or `hoors`?). Good for him, isnt it?

naqshbandi

....``BTW will you guys join me in condemning those terrorists who martyred in cold blood a gentle sufi sunni scholar Saleem Qadri and his son``

.......... all you had to do was ask.... we, the faithful, have already responded to the call of the sunni tehrik and will make sure that the streets of karachi run red with the blood of shias, amhmedis and other assorted kafirs and heretics ......takbeer !.... we will also burn all the cars and busses and replace them with camels and jackasses to make the streets of karachi look like the streets of medina munawara in the time of the prophet and the streets of kabul in the time of mulla omar..... takbeer !

``Karachi was mostly closed today as residents obeyed a call given by Sunni Tehrik group for a one-day strike to protest against the murder of its leader. Shops, schools and businesses were shuttered, while public transport stayed off the roads, witnesses said. One person has died and about eight vehicles have been torched as strike gripped Karachi today, police said.``

hamidm...I have to confess that though i disagree totally with most things you write i do find your style extremely witty and amusing...

You said that the matter of Destiny IS confusing; well yes and no. The following is enough for us and beyond it we are not encouraged to delve. This is the Ahle SunnaH aqeedah:

[quote]

WHAT IS DESTINY (TAQDIR)?

1. Within the Knowledge of Allah Ta`ala, He wrote what was going to happen in the world and whatever His servants were going to do.

2. Allah Ta’ala wrote good in some people`s fate and wrote bad in another person`s fate.

3. He did not make the person helpless by writing this down, but wrote down what the servant was going to do.

4. An example of this is that if Allah Ta’ala wrote bad for Zaid, then it was because He is aware that Zaid is going to do bad, and if Zaid was to do good, then He would have written good for Zaid, thus His Writing and His Knowledge did not make any person compelled.

5. After performing bad deeds you should not say that this happened because it was Allah Ta`ala`s will and therefore it was in my destiny, but all good things are done with the Pleasure of Allah Ta`ala and all bad deeds are done with the pleasure of one`s desires.

6.To believe yourself as totally without will or totally helpless is a misguided belief. The Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) has referred to those who do not believe in Taqdir to be like fire-worshippers of his Ummah.

7. It is forbidden to discuss or debate the subject of destiny. A person should only think that they are not helpless like stones and therefore cannot do anything according to their will, but actually Allah Ta`ala has given humans the power to do as they please and the reward and sin is based upon this power of will. Hazrat Abu Bakr Siddique and Hazrat Umar-e-Farooq (radi Allahu anhuma) were prohibited from discussing Taqdir.

[/quote] from http://www.raza.co.za/20.1b.htm

BTW will you guys join me in condemning those terrorists who martyred in cold blood a gentle sufi sunni scholar Saleem Qadri and his son etc. These ``jihadis`` are a disgrace to all Muslims and a blot on Pakistan`s name. I, in my ignorance, many have supported some things they did in the past on Chowk but it is clear now that these extremists of the Deobandi and Wahabi (Taliban) schools are using the jihad cause as a cover to get money out of poor people and use it for their own murderous activities to kill off those righteous Sunni ulama who expose them. May Allah bless Allamah Saleem Qadri, an ashiq-e-Rasul (sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam) with Jannat ul Firdaws. ameen.

Though the author`s article was obviously well researched and written I could not help getting the feeling whilst reading it that he has already decided that the prevalent post-modern Western theory of existence and life and the history of human development is the correct one! Thus this argument is nothing more than an attempt to show--as others have noted--the conflict between (Western) ``Science`` and ``Religion`` and the respected author has fallen firmly on the side of ``Science``. (Why am I not surprised?!)

I am also a scientist but I do not agree that modern scientific rationalism is the answer to all oou questions; indeed by its very definition science cannot answer the really BIG questions of Life. Why are we here? Where do we come from? How was the Universe created? By whom? What happens after death? What is the purpose of Life? etc. etc.

The answer to all these questions of course is remarkably simple: Allah.

However since the Renaissance and esp. since the Industrial Revolution the whole gambit of Western philosophy and science has been to try to take God/Allah out of the picture!

As Rumi (may Allah sanctify his secret!) said, ``It is the fate of the Unbeliever not to believe in fate!``

Allah`s Beloved Messenger (sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam) informed us from his knowledge of the Unseen (which Allah had gifted to him) that a time would come when people will ask, ``Who created God?`` Subhan Allah! May I be sacrificed for the piercing knowledge and gaze of Allah`s Habib who informed us of what the non-Muslim, kafi, philosophers are asking!!

The very fact that all major religions are undergoing a big revival, esp. in the USA, (and Islam is making particular inroads--esp. Rumi!!) indicates that despite making amazing material and technological progress the people are finding a spiritual vacuum in their lives and are looking desperately for answers. They have realised what that great Prophet of Allah, Isa the son of Mary (alayhimusalaam) informed us:

``Man does not live by bread alone.``

It is a lesson those intent on aping and taking aboard all aspects of Western modern thinking out to remember.

Anyway please excuse me for I did say that I would only interact on Chowk very rarely a while back and I intend to stick to that. It is Rabi ul Awwal Sharif and the blessed date is not far now (the 12th) when Allah Ta`ala honoured this world with the Presence of His Unique Darling, The Beloved Of Allah, The Mercy to the Universes, The One Created from His Own Noor, The Sultan of ``Lawlak``, Our Sayyid and Mawla Hadrat Abu`l Qasim, Muhammad ibn Abdullah ibn Abd al Muttalib al Hashimi al Qurayshi sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam. Yes, The Blessed Month of the Milad is upon us and we must all rejoice at this greatest of blessings of Allah.

A verse which I heard at a Naat Conference yesterday--and it is relevant to this topic of the author`s too. The writer says:

Maana ke chand par jaana haqiqat hi sahi

Chand ko qadmon mein girana baRee baat hai!

This poem has a lot of meaning for the Ahle Ilm and Ahle Science especially if they but reflect a little.

Subhan Allah!

...this whole thing about free will, predestination, divine plan and so on is extremely complex and most people spend sleepless nights wondering if the chicken was predestined to cross the road or was it simply because he wanted to .... great philosophers have fretted and fussed over this ponderous question and popes, pontiffs and ayatollahs have dispatched many a heretic who didn`t agree with their answer to this question to hell.....

........... simple folk, like me, sometimes have a hard time grasping these profound and oracular arguments as put forth by kant who, as pointed out by shah, believed that `` a person must be free because freedom is a necessary postulate of the moral consciousness; the Kantian categorical imperative is beyond any theoretical analysis. The prevailing philosophical opinion has been that partial self-determination exists, and that,

although many considerations other than will are involved in the formation of moral judgments, in certain circumstances a core remains, however small, of creative decision``......... uh? ... come again ? ....... are we lost ? ... is there hope ?

........ not to worry .... there is another great philosopher who has explained this whole divine plan thing simply, yet eloquently .... george carlin says :

``.......I`ve often thought people treat God rather rudely, don`t you? Asking trillions and trillions of prayers every day. Asking and pleading and begging for favors. Do this, gimme that, I need a new car, I want a better job. And most of this praying takes place on Sunday His day off. It`s not nice. And it`s no way to treat a friend.



But people do pray, and they pray for a lot of different things, you know, your sister needs an operation on her crotch, your brother was arrested for defecating in a mall. But most of all, you`d really like to f//k that hot

little redhead down at the convenience store. You know, the one with the eyepatch and the clubfoot? Can you pray for that? I think you`d have to. And

I say, fine. Pray for anything you want. Pray for anything, but what about the Divine Plan?



Remember that? The Divine Plan. Long time ago, God made a Divine Plan. Gave it a lot of thought, decided it was a good plan, put it into practice. And for billions and billions of years, the Divine Plan has been doing just fine. Now, you come along, and pray for something. Well suppose the thing you want isn`t in God`s Divine Plan? What do you want Him to do? Change His plan? Just

for you? Doesn`t it seem a little arrogant? It`s a Divine Plan. What`s the use of being God if every run-down shmuck with a two-dollar prayerbook can come along and f//k up Your Plan?



And here`s something else, another problem you might have: Suppose your prayers aren`t answered. What do you say? ``Well, it`s God`s will.`` ``Thy Will Be Done.`` Fine, but if it`s God`s will, and He`s going to do what He wants to anyway, why the f//k bother praying in the first place? Seems like a big waste of time to me! Couldn`t you just skip the praying part and go right to His Will? It`s all very confusing. ..................``

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