Chowk, Jay, a Ditch and I

I don`t know why but I found this article very relevant today.

Also some little bit of . . .

Sorry Alia, your passionate and rational article became one of the cusalty of recent international terrorist events. The replies to your article broke all the records at chowk.com and surely heading for 2000 replies. Anyway what you said so beautifully still holds true and it is more urgent need of time than ever before given the current geo-political situation.

Best wishes and regards,

Sameer

Ylh

When I spoke about a fool, you did not have to answer.

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Gowardhan

As I am sure there are better Hindus than you too.

Re Aamir (#1758):

In my earlier posts I have tried to show that Hindus and Christians generally do not make nearly as much effort to integrate religion in their lives as the Muslims do. The problem is that Muslims of this day and age have generally misinterpreted Islam at a scientific, social, as well as a personal level. Some examples are belief that Issa-ibne-Marriam resides in the sky, his much anticipated descent at the time of the dajjal, Blasphemy Laws in Pakistan, persecution of Ahmadi-Muslims, and more. Such ideas are based upon misinterpretation of Quran, hadith, and more.

It is this thought process that has kept the general intellectual progress of the Muslims in check for centuries now. Making efforts to correctly understand Islam before blindly integrating it in their lives will serve the Muslims well. Now, this is a very simple point I am making, and should not be so difficult to grasp. Right …?

On the issue of persecution of Ahmadi-Muslims, you mentioned that you are sorry. I appreciate your honesty here. You are right that there are many different types of discriminations in operation … on basis of language, social status, race, and more. Hateful discrimination is an act of sin in the eyes of Allah and should be condemned by all. Whether it is Holocaust against Jews, or killings by a dictator, or massacre of Bosnians, or the recent “World Trade Center” event, or persecution of Ahmadi-Muslims, or Shias, or others, or any other hateful event. These events need to be acknowledged, their motives need to be understood, and steps should be taken by all to prevent such acts of hate and violence.

So let me ask you this: As an Ahmadi-Muslim I believe in Quran and sunnah and hadith and all the elements of faith. So why is it that I am declared a “kafir” by the Paksitani government, and why should I be imprisoned for merely saying assalam-o-alaikom to others, or saying bismillah, or giving aazan? Ahmadi-Muslims are often martyred in Paskistan and their mosques are destroyed by the “jehadi” types … but no action is taken to stop this behavior. There have been hundreds of such incidents in Pakistan, but they go unnoticed. Is this what Islam has become in the hearts of the Muslims of the world today?

I do not intend to use this board to start bashing ant-Ahmadi elements, but to illustrate that the Muslim ullema of this day have become corrupt and are no longer qualified as leaders. Muslims would do well by getting rid of these hate-mongers and turning towards true teachings of Islam. Then only Muslims can, and surely will, excel in all the fields that require skill, knowledge, and wisdom. Otherwise they will continue to exist as a group which is at best mediocre.

Separating religion from science is the same as separating Word of Allah from Creation of Allah. These two cannot be separated as they fully complement each other. Reflection and understanding of science only serves to strengthen my faith in Quran and its teachings. After all, Quran challenges the reader to ponder over the details of Allah’s creations and that one cannot find any incongruity in the universe. Separating the two is a bogus argument and runs counter to the message of Quran. It shows one’s “jihalat” and lack of faith in the message of Islam.

On the issue of dajjal, you may only believe in the principle of evil of the dajjal, but this issue does not end here. Ahadith have set the timing of the arrival of dajjal and Issa-ibne-Marriam at 14th century Hijri (

Reply Shammi #470

“…Kake Da Hotel`s appearance is a blot on the once-magnificent Connaught Place.”

Shammiji, this is true, but yeh tho Dilli ki kahani hai, na?

Zafar

Sattar

You are wasting time with a fool who thinks he is lucky to be born muslim and has no need to think. He doesnt realize he cant think.

You must be truer muslim than this fool without a mind and a foul worldview.

Re: Zafar

``The little stall in Connaught Place used to be a favourite before Karim came along``

Zafar, I can testify to the fact that Karim`s food is lajawaab awesome (http://www.karimhoteldelhi.com/index1.html). Also, is Karim`s (estd. 1913) not much older than Connaught Place (estd. 1920s)? Karim`s atmosphere and ambiance (its location in the narrow bylanes behind Jama Masjid) rekindles for me the glory of Old Delhi, whereas Kake Da Hotel`s appearance is a blot on the once-magnificent Connaught Place.

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Re Aamir (#1742):

You are missing the point. You are taking my comments personally and comparing yourself to Hindus. To clarify this, let’s say you have a sprained ankle. Despite this limping problem, with some effort you manage to outrun a normal person. This may be due to the fact that normally you run much faster than this person. This does not mean that a sprained ankle does not impede one’s running capabilities. It is obvious that people with sprained ankles will generally have difficulty in running and are likely to be outrun by those who do not have this problem. Although individual results may vary, but on the whole this principle will hold valid.

Similarly, without drawing individual comparisons, it is understandable that generally Muslims will have a more difficult time fully appreciating some of the scientific principles if they believe , for example, that Issa-ibne-Marriam still resides in the sky, even after two thousand years of his birth. Similarly, on the issue of crime and punishment, which involves one’s fundamental understanding of human rights and dignity, Blasphemy Laws in Pakistan are a clear sign of misinterpretation of Islam by overzealous mullahs. Persecution of Ahmadi-Muslims in Pakistan also underscores this problem. Also remember, that these are just a few of many examples. Mainstream interpretation of Islam is full of such absurd examples and beliefs, which Muslims of the world continue to integrate into these beliefs into their daily lives.

On a similar issue, you insist that one should not mix religion and science. I strongly disagree with this. Quran makes clear references to scientific principles that were discovered much later. These principles include planetary motion, water cycle, various biological and astronomical facts, and if understood correctly, only strengthen one’s faith in Quran. In Quran Allah challenges the reader to look at the details of this universe, and to look again, and again, and one will not find any incongruity in Allah’s creation. Correct understanding of Islam and science complement each other. On the other hand you think that Allah’s Word (Quran) and Allah’s creation (this universe) are not consistent and should be separated. This shows that you are unable to reconcile your faith with realities of life. This reflects poorly, not on Islam, but on your interpretation of Islam. Now recall the dark ages in Europe that I mentioned in my earlier post.

Moving onto the issue of the Dajjal … so you think that looking at people like Stalin, Hitler, it is conceivable that the most viscous villain, the dajjal, may evolve over time. Now, people like Stalin and Hitler are not unique to this era … such people have long existed … so how much longer will it be before this dajjal finally evolves?

It gets more interesting from here on. My understanding of the mainstream Muslims belief is that this dajjal, the one-eyed monster, will be riding a huge donkey … a few hundred feet in length … which will consume fire. This donkey will move in giant leaps … with one foot in the east and one in the west. When riding this donkey, the head of the dajjal will be above the clouds. Anyway, at this time, Issa-ibne-Marriam will descend on the shoulders of two angels, from the sky, where he has been residing in flesh and blood for more than two thousand years. Issa-ibne-Marriam and the Mahdi will kill the dajjal after a fierce battle. There is going to be bloodshed of non-believers. Then Issa-ibne-Marriam will kill the pigs, break the crosses and more. He will convert all the people to Islam, get married and settle down.

So Sahib, the question is that how and when will all this happen? You say Islam is rationality … so explain to me all this in a rational, reasonable way. You will soon realize that there is no rational explanation for all this. These are fairy-tales spun by “jahil” mullahs and are in clear violation of Quranic teachings. A rational mind cannot reconcile these beliefs with realities of life, and will forever remain puzzled over these inconsistencies. This remains a major dilemma faced by Muslims of the day …

Asad Sattar

Gowardhan

How old are you? 5 or 6?

Dibbi shah

Dibbi, dont get mad only because you have been outwitted. This dabba can make your dibbi`s day any day.

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#: 870

sadna

There is a Rafi song which goes this way, if anyone remember the rest.

Maine pi sharaab, tum ne kya piya?

Tum ne kya piya, aadmi ka khoon

Tum kaho tho such, ma`in kahoo`n tho jhoot

..(?)

Well apparently, one can drink khoon AND sharaab AND claim to be acting pious all at once, going by the incidents hamidm #862 has quoted.



SADNA :-)

May be you couldnt find better literature book than bollywood to shape your identity ,but we have many better ways to prepare ourselves to tackle trial & tribulations of life than drugged to numbness feel nothing, see nothing, think nothing nonsense !!!!!