The Clash Of Un-Civilizations And Osama-ism

Maybe Dr. Kevorkian would be the greatest authority on the subject. Why westerners are getting fed up with their lives. Why is their so much misery amid abundance. Why is there so much lonliness amidst canned laughter. Why the parents throw out children throw out parents throw out..ad nauseaum. Why the desire to kill millions in Vietnam Cambodia Iraq Bosnia Granada & hundred other countries to sow pseudo-prosperity at home.

Why America laughs so much , and yet is the unhappiest nation of all...given the % crime rate, Obesity, Cancer, heartattack, psychowhackos inluding psychilists like our Freedaho above, homelessness, destitudeness, apathy, plight of ``illegals`` & fear of the ``alien``.

Shielded by two ocewans for toooooo loooong; slave labor, virgin soil, itellectual-refugee pogroms, & decimation of the local populace enabled the thUGGs to amass so much capital to establish R&D ( the freedom for hit & trial & make mistakes--so ``invent`` & ``discover`` stuff).

America has been secure & smug for too long. It is time it gets included among nations with no special privileges & protocol.

The thUggs need major brain surgery--better still, it is advisable for them to commit suicide.

MEANWHILE, ELSWHERE IN THE WORLD, WHERE HAPPINESS IS SOUL_LESS PROSPERITY
World`s oldest person turns 115
21/08/2006 11:47:29 PM






World`s oldest person turns 115
21/08/2006 11:47:29 PM

The world`s oldest person celebrated his 115th birthday Monday in Puerto Rico, attributing his longevity to healthy eating and avoiding alcohol.

CBC News


Emiliano Mercado del Toro was feted at an outdoor party in the northwestern town of Isabela, where he was serenaded by his favourite singer, Iris Chacon.


``I never damaged my body with liquor,`` said Mercado, who was declared the world`s oldest last year by the Guinness Book of Records. An ambulance carried the wheelchair-bound man to an outdoor plaza where family, friends and the mayor gathered. Mercado has difficulty hearing and permanently lost his sight four years ago.


Mercado was a boy when the United States seized Puerto Rico from Spain in 1898. He trained in the U.S. Army in 1918, but the First World War ended before he saw battle.


As a young man, Mercado said, he worked for 50 cents US a day driving animals loaded with sugar cane to processing centres.


Mercado did have one vice in his life, but he kicked a 76-year smoking habit when he was 90.


According to Guinness, the oldest fully authenticated age belonged to Jeanne-Louise Calment of France. She lived 122 years and 164 days before dying in a nursing home in 1997.


With files from Associated Press

Truth indeed that is a consistent perspective. My argument is not that these three events were wrong or right, but my bone was Mr.Saxena who was picking and choosing.

I agree with you in certain aspects. However in spirit atleast the creation of Pakistan was better than the other two events because atleast in principle no transfer of populations was envisaged, hence Jinnah`s numerous pronouncements on the need of equality regardless of religion caste or creed. I contend that it was mass hysteria fired up by propaganda by the Hindu Mahasabha and leaders like Tara Singh that led to Hindu exodus from Pakistan, and then came retaliatory killings on both sides.

Sincerely

YLH

Re: ylh

yeah, whatever

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(No Im playing, but something tells me Ima be next, LOL)

Yahuda Goldsteen,

Kindly dont fib. Whereas I agree that Ahmadis have been discriminated against in Pakistan but that is a persecution of recent origin. One of Pakistan`s most impassioned pleaders, Sir Zafrullah Khan, Pakistan`s first Foreign Minister, was an Ahmadi. He had fought for Pakistan. Such discriminations which have been created will be undone one day. Maybe you will be interested to know that Sir Zafrullah Khan had advised extensively to the Zionist leaders in 1947 while taking a Public stance against Israel compelled by the overwhelming Public opinion in favor of Israel.

Your assertion about Shias is totally untrue. My mother is a shia, and Pakistan has had a lot of Shiite rulers... Indeed, Pakistan`s founder Muhammad Ali Jinnah was a shia not a sunni, Whereas there has been violence against the shias recently but there is nothing legally against Shiites... Indeed only a couple of hundred posts ago, one Mr. Ali Akbar Poonawala from India was accusing Jinnah of being too pro-Shiite which ironically he didn`t follow up with facts.

My mother is a high ranking bureaucrat in the Health Department in Pakistan and a doctor. She is a shiite. Her brother and sister are very active PPP politicians, and coming to PPP, its most famous leaders Zulfikar Ali Bhutto and Benazir Bhutto were shiites just like M.A Jinnah the founder of Pakistan. My father`s mother is an Ahmadi Muslim and proud of it ... she is also a very patriotic Pakistani.

Pakistan`s constitution in its original form has nothing discriminatory against any sect or religion ... let alone sects of Islam. Indeed the 5th Amendment is the one which seeks to define a Muslim. The other discriminatory legislation is almost entirely through provisional constitutional orders. Kindly see for yourself:

http://www.pakistani.org/pakistan/constitution/

No one is arguing that Israel is not better than Pakistan ... indeed the Israeli state commands my complete respect in many matters.. but my point was that Pakistan`s basis as a homeland for Muslims of South Asia cannot be called faulty just because someone happens to disagree with it. There is nothing absolutely nothing wrong with the Two Nation Theory as an Idea.... especially when it was espoused by people who had come to this conclusion have toiling for more than 30 years for the cause of Hindu Muslim Unity.

Sincerely

YLH

ylh:

the dissolution of palestine, india and the ottoman empire were all disasters. palestine - the suffering and refugee problems of the palestinians. india - the largest, most sudden and violent migrations in the history of man. ottoman - the expulsion/migration of the greeks from modern day turkey.

the big flaw in the creation of pakistan was the following - it was not a case of ``muslims are here, hindus are there``, lets split up. you were really drawing a political line between communities that lived side by side in villages and towns, peacefully or not. the challenge for a new generation was to meld the two communities together, not to say ``you worship cows, we eat it``.

re: romair

...tip: read before you respond...and read what`s written, not what you want to be written...

Rsaxena,

Dear sir, I have not argued with you about whether Pakistan has achieved much or not... that is a different matter entirely... I have only said that religion based Nationalisms cannot be decried simply because they are religion based... it is the democratic diplomatic political right of the people to group themselves according to any affiliation they may like. Hence while you can accuse Pakistan of many faults, by supporting Israel you forfeit your right to point fingers at Pakistan`s nationalism as being `religion-based` ... In any event, you have shown yourself to be an unworthy opponent in argumentation. You have sought to win the argument by changing the topic.

Like I said before you have a lot of issues in your life you should deal with. First and foremost you have to give up this false notion that somehow you are a God`s gift to mankind. Usually such people end up committing suicide on these boards.. look at your mentor `Latif Chappu`... Nobody even remembers him anymore... You have to keep in mind this world will continue to honor people like Bill Clinton, Larry King and Bill Press, but people like Bill O`reilly will pass away from the Public memory once their 15 minutes of fame is over.

Secondly you have to give up the notion that you somehow know everything better than everyone else. Let me make it clear to you. David Ben Gureon and Jacob Robinson Know more about Israel. It is a fact. There is no shame in admitting that the founders of the state of Israel know better than you,an Indian selling Hot Dogs on Wall street. Claiming that simply because YLH went to Rutgers while you went to an Ivy League school doesn`t make you more knowledgeable than Ben Gureon. This is true on other counts as well.

Third, you have to stop deluding yourself that your jokes are on some level actually funny.It is apparent that people here dont laugh with you but at you. For an allegedly Ivy League educated individual you show no class or education whatsover. Bill O`reilly went to Harvard but his Harvard education failed to change him. No school, no matter how good, can change your personality ... in other words if you stink ... You stink. Live with it, and use a deoderant.

Hope you will take this sincere advice and stop making a fool out of yourself and in process make India and Indians look bad. I personally dont suffer fools gladly so if indeed you wish to cross swords of argument with me again, please have something more than crass largely unfunny jokes that you seem never to run out of....

Sincerely

Your Friend

YLH

Ladies and Gentlemen typical Rsaxenian method of argumentation. Can`t fight logic facts and sanity (remember Rsaxena claimed he knew more about Israel than Jacob Robinson and Ben Gureon) respond with childish and stupid comments.

Jay, Goldsteen saga .....

Jay, sad to see that you just keep on lying and making strawman fallacies as if on energizer batteries. I hope that you leave this earth soon enough so that the hope for genuine and realistic peace is finally laid. Ironically the most fanatical and bigoted of Muslims, the deobandi fundamentalists (aka the forerunners of the taliban movement) opposed tooth and nail the creation of Pakistan siding with Gandhi and his entourage...

Let us not forget that the basic complaint of the deobandi fundamentalist (who according to Jay is the better of the Muslims selected by natural selection) to Pakistan was that according to them Pakistan was a product of misplaced `Muslim Zionism` and hence unIslamic ... indeed it is strange to see Goldsteen forging an alliance with Jay .. for the shameless and inaccurate claims that Jay makes can easily be turned around and made against the Jews of Israel. Interestingly enough the only politician in the annals of Indian History to earn the title of `Best Ambassador of Hindu Muslim Unity` was Jinnah the founder of Pakistan. This exclusive title was not even awarded to someone like Gandhi.

Yet I cannot in good conscience concede that Mr. Goldsteen is actually jewish and/or Israeli. Indeed he sounds more like a Keralite Hindu to me, for in my experience Israelis are some of the most educated and tolerant people. Ironically Goldsteen continues to bash Pakistan while targetting Shammi and Prem, two of the most educated and enlightened Indians I know of yet.

Ironically it was a Pakistani, tahmed321, who came to Goldsteen`s aid on this board. It is quite possible that Goldsteen is either Saxena or Jay ... if not, I stand disilluisoned by Israelis.

Sincerely

Yasser Latif Hamdani

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Ayaz Amir, in Dawn, put it clearly.

`But Pakistan`s guardians still do not say that the policies forged in the crucible of `jihad` and now abandoned under pressure were in themselves flawed. On the contrary, by insisting on the no-choice argument they imply that there was nothing wrong with those policies. Only the external environment changed in such a way as to make them untenable. This is shirking responsibility...`

The saner voices in Pakistan have realised the fact that jihadism is bad for Pakistan but the majority is still too much in love with their jihadi addiction.

Ayaz Amir, in Dawn, put it clearly.

`But Pakistan`s guardians still do not say that the policies forged in the crucible of `jihad` and now abandoned under pressure were in themselves flawed. On the contrary, by insisting on the no-choice argument they imply that there was nothing wrong with those policies. Only the external environment changed in such a way as to make them untenable. This is shirking responsibility...`

The saner voices in Pakistan have realised the fact that jihadism is bad for Pakistan but the majority is still too much in love with their jihadi addiction.

Something the Kanjar(munafique muslim)class of Pakistan & India can learn from....both men & women.

Peace and freedom for women

An American convert to Islam explains her choice

__________________________________________________

It puzzles me, an American Muslim woman, that non-Muslims rarely ask me about my religious beliefs and practices. Instead I am invariably asked something like this: ``How could a modem American woman be a Muslim? Don`t Muslims treat their women horribly?`` Most Americans believe that Islam treats women as spiritual and intellectual second-class citizens and relegates them to a life behind a veil in a secluded harem, denied rights and education in a state of semi-slavery to their husbands.

It is difficult to counteract such stereotypes and to fully convey the many blessings Islam holds for women. Like having a baby, taking an acid trip, or riding a bicycle it is difficult to describe to someone who hasn`t tried it. It is also important to distinguish between what Islam legislates and teaches about the position of women and how women are actually treated in various times and places.

A Muslim woman is first and foremost a Muslim. The beliefs and practices of Islam are the core of her life. Islam. or surrender to Allah, means following as perfectly as possible the din, the way of life outlined in the Koran and Hadith (traditional sayings of the Prophet). As I often explain it to children and to non-Muslims: ``If you sincerely believed that God was telling you to doI something- for example, to cover your head-wouldn`t you do it`,``` For a Muslim. it`s almost that simple. Islam means surrender. Surrender is surrender!

The Koran emphatically repeats that men and women are spiritually equal in the sight of Allah and that their religious duties are the same. Except for specific exemptions for menstruation and for 40 days after childbirth. a Muslim woman prays at least five times every day of her life. She fasts during the month of Ramadan unless she is sick, on a journey, pregnant, or nursing. Since she can own her own property (her husband cannot touch it without her consent), she must pay the obligatory zakat (the Islamic alms tax). She should make the pilgrimage to Mecca if she can.

Both men and women are encouraged to seek education and knowledge. They are both expected to hold to the moral virtues of purity, chastity, and modesty. For a woman this means being fully covered in public, except for face and hands, by clothes that do not reveal her figure. (Some also interpret this to mean that her face should be covered with a veil, but this is by no means a universally accepted interpretation or practice.) She may be less covered with her husband, .chil dren, and near family. it is unthinkable for a Muslim woman to display her body to men other than her husband in the way that Western women now take for granted as ``natural`` or fashionable.

The family and the raising of children occupy a central place in the moral and social legislation of Islam, and this is sometimes difficult for modern Westerners to understand and appreciate. It is from this concern for the stability and strength of the family that Islam creates different and complementary roles for men and women.

An example of this is inheritance rights, which are distinctly spelled out in the Koran. Before Islam, women had no right of inheritance. Under Islam, they receive half the share of men. Taken out of context this appears to be unfair, but men are clearly charged with the care and protection of women and children, and this often applies to an extended family. Having no such financial obligations, women are given the right to inherit, but they inherit less.

Marriage is an important part of Islam. Families often seek to arrange a marriage for their daughter with a suitable man, but the woman must consent to it. A Muslim marriage involves a contract between husband and wife, and the husband gives his wife a wedding gift (which is not a dowry or a bride price).

A wife is expected to obey her husband in all decisions, although he may well consult her; he is the head of the family and his is the final word. She is expected to care for and guard his home and property. She may keep her maiden name and may seek employment in any suitable field (although this is generally discouraged since the primary job of women is motherhood)

Most non-Muslims assume that since polygamy is permitted in Islam it must be common, but in fact it is rare. The conditions that make it allowable (being able to treat more than one wife, and up to four wives, absolutely equally) are difficult for most men to meet. It is socially necessary when war creates a surplus of widows and unmarried women or when a wife is unable to bear children and children are very much desired.

Similarly, although divorce is permitted and acknowledged to be sometimes necessary, it is discouraged and every effort is made to avoid it. Both men and women may initiate divorce, subject to waiting periods specified in the Koran. Men are expected to support wife and children during the waiting period, a period of separation. Wives who initiate divorce in many cases must give all or part of their marriage gift back as compensation. The men of the family support unmarried women, widows, and orphans.

This may sound like limitation and a loss of freedom to Westerners, yet most Muslim women perceive these standards as a great blessing; they create an environment of protection, honor, respect, and peace in which women may concentrate on bringing up their children. From this point of view, Western women appear to have the short end of the stick!

There is an inner freedom that can only be experienced when we freely accept limits and discard the illusion of a freedom that is merely slavery to our own whims, desires, and fantasies. This is the crux of women`s position in Islam. Certain rights are given and certain limits are set-in the context of Allah`s will. The benefit is not in the outward life, but in the possibility of the soul`s evolution.

I know many American women who have lived as Muslims, some of them for many years. Most of them are highly educated, widely experienced, and came to Islam from a ``liberated`` past. I don`t know of even one of them who would want to return to her former way of life. I believe that says a lot.

__________________________________________________

re: semipreciousme

``…yes, van gundy left you high and dry, didn’t he?….bad, very bad….as for the air god taking over the knicks…bite your tongue…..what blasphemy!…``

yes, he did...i don`t sense some glee there, do i?...i know `air god` would jump at the chance to be in the Big City...who wouldn`t want that ;)

``By the way it has been alleged by a jew, that the only country where jews have not been persecuted is india. Have you heard of it.``(jay)

By the phrase ``only country`` -- you mean -- you`re telling Mr. Goldsteen not to persecute the Ethiopian Jews in Israel?

I hope Goldsteen “understands” your sarcasm, Jay.

re: ylh

dude, doesn`t matter what i say or you say or any quotes you pull out say...or whether my school was kicked out of the ivy leagues to make room for rutgers...proof is in the pudding...look at what israel has accomplished and look at what pakistan has accomplished (nothing)...there was something clearly different about israel`s foundation which promoted success while pakistan`s promoted failure...