Duck, Man, Duck!

DRUMZ #64,

indian movies these days are unoriginal, superficial, shallow, hyped up garbage......can`t believe young `intelligent` people like you are actually watching them with interest.

DRUMZy:

re:Your gonna have a good laff/cry when u figure out who my parents are.

--Ah! why for is that? Something tells me that if I should ever figure that out, I will just smile. I`ve done enough laughing/crying `bout my own parents, thank you very much, and I still haven`t figured out who they are! *grin *

KKKG was `bout the supposedly `perfect Indian family` this couple adopts a boy. The boy finds out by accident that he was adopted but once it is known it`s never brought up again, and he`s treated like their very own (`specially by the mother), UNTIL..dum dum dum...he falls in love with someone Papa thinks is unworthy of being in the family because of her lower status in society. They get married, and take refuge in England (of all places), and his baby brother and her baby sister attempt a reconciliation between Papa and beta. Any bells ringing? :)

One of my favorite scenes, if not the favorite scene in the movie is when the mother (played by the lovely Jaya B.) finally speaks up to her husband and uses the line he always did to make his authority known, `Bas keh diya!` To which I said `dair aaye, durust aaye!` Peace and luv!

``The articulate will deliver well chosen slurs in English, Urdu or Punjabi as the occasion demanded.``

Robert Maxwell, the founder of Pergamon Press, was a naturalized citizen of the UK. He was often reviled in the national press for less-than-ethical business practices. A Czech-mate of his told me an anecdote a few days ago:

On Maxwell`s election to the House of Commons, much was made of him not being British-born. An unfriendly MP asked him one day: ``Mr. Maxwell, what do you think of our freedoms in the UK. You have been allowed to serve in the Parliament, although you were not born in the UK?``

Replied Maxwell: ``I am British by choice, unlike you, who is British ny accident of birth. And may

I say, how unfortunate an accident!``

Sadna: Look, ur justifying the opinion that swearing is wrong. 99% of us would automatically agree with u (ur arguing a side which is so easy that its considered an unwritten rule). Based on this, the least u should do is show some sort of thinking.

``Im askin u to look within and find out WHY u correlate (automatically) curse words with vanity/stupidity cuz ur logic doesnt add up.``

You had no answer for this, just a justifaction for ur silence. Since when does introspection only involve looking at confortable and happy ideas? Introspection deals with analyzing and sythesizing ALL of ones reactions to the external world (not just concepts everyone else may agree with). Ever heard of meditating on something everyone else considers ugly until u consider it beautiful? Didn`t the Gita KEEP STRESSING the point that things are not simply Good and Bad? Why do u correlate swearing with vanity?

Ana: IF im being judged, I believe it would be IDEAL for me to be judged SOLELY on what I do.

Mohobatien was good, itz a parallel to our other discussion-the concept is flawless and perfect. Hum tumare hain sanum was very easy to dissect as the concept was shallow (they just didnt communicate). I saw KKKG but i forgot what it was about. Im just seeing Dil to Pagal hai which is very much like mohobatein (only cornier). Your gonna have a good laff/cry when u figure out who my parents are.

DRUMZy

re: I dont think any saint is in need of my prayers. If they were alive now, they would probably ask us to live by their words, not worship (FOR) them.

--I`m not exactly sure that was what I implied..`course we don`t worship for the saints. And yes, saints are not in need of yours or even my prayers, we are in need of THEIR prayers and intercessions (at least this particular sinner is :))-par mein ne ye kaha nahin tha kya?!

Chalo..to move to another topic for the time being, did you watch `Mohabbatein` and the other film you said you were going to watch? Didja like them? What`s next on the NDN movie menu?! Dunno what kind of movies you like, but try `Kabhi Khushi Kabhi Gham` if you haven`t already..and watch it with your parents. Though I don`t think I could watch it with mine, `cause I cried through most of the movie. The caption below the title on the posters/cd says `its all about loving your parents`. I would add,...`and your children.` Peace and luv!

DRUMZ #61

``Im askin u to look within and find out WHY u correlate (automatically) curse words with vanity/stupidity cuz ur logic doesnt add up.``

Excuse the engg. metaphor, but its sort of like a son designing a machine simply to do the opposite of what his father`s invention does(like say putting water back into the well instead of pumping it out) instead of bulding a better machine or thinking up a better paradigm(like say drip irrigation or water harvesting).

The case for using curse words is like the case for building the opposite machine, its both vain and stupid for the son to think he has been more instrospective OR innovative when he is only being contrary-minded.

Sadna: ``Vain partly because the use of curse words is premised on someone being shocked(like rebellion needs rules to break).``

Im askin u to look within and find out WHY u correlate (automatically) curse words with vanity/stupidity cuz ur logic doesnt add up. If one is in an environment in which they are used frequently, wheres the shock? U assume that the hearers would be so uptight that they would be shocked at hearing curse words...

``and when its done to win appreciation. Stupid because it often sounds stupid, though I didn`t mean present company :)``

Appreciation? Like ``wow he can swear, hes cool!!!`` Come on, i dont know anyone over age 12 that thinks like that. And WHY does it sound stupid? A word is an approximation of a thought. For SOME situations, curse words are more EXACT approximations of ur thoughts. They are not used because people let CUSTOM think for them.

``Not so fast Mr young. Experience often means one has rethought something a greater number of times :).``

Which would make being wrong even worse, rite (remember, most chowkies are old and dumb too, lol)?

aNA: ``I wondered if you had meant wishy-washy because I`ve never heard the word `wishy` alone! But hey, the way English is employed these days is becoming more of a foreign language than it already is :-).``

Sorry it was a typo. About the saints, im just of the opinion that we can commemorate them by carrying their torch. While burying ourselves in mosques and temples, we dropped the torch of buddha, mani, mahavira, asoka etc. U can commemorate them by listening to ur conscious and living `righteously.` I dont think any saint is in need of my prayers. If they were alive now, they would probably ask us to live by their words, not worship (FOR) them.

Temporal#54 and Sameer

Temporal, the first para that you translated from ``In defense of the left`` was great :). But if I happen to write it in my words, it would be closer to Samir`s style. The reason is that Sameer is a scientist, and scientists often suffer from what I call ``journal (scientific)paper writing style``. Though active voice that you use in your sentence construction is the norm in literary writngs, scientists and engineers prefer passive voice in journal articles. Also the perspective from which scientist/engineers write is that of a ``detached third person``, which makes the article seem dull. Sameer, however, often uses subtle humor in his writings; sometimes by creating ``redundant`` characters, at other times using a particular style of narration which is not obvious to the uninitiated on some occasions.

DRUMZ #56

``the lower class, being uncouth, uneducated``

I didnot say all that. Uncouth perhaps, but not necessarily. `Lower class, uneducated` its hard to say that when we read Kabir the julaaha in school. I just said vain and stupid. Vain partly because the use of curse words is premised on someone being shocked(like rebellion needs rules to break) and when its done to win appreciation. Stupid because it often sounds stupid, though I didn`t mean present company :)

``Of course INTELLECTUAL LAZINESS prevents the old, rigid desis from RE-THINKING.``

Not so fast Mr young. Experience often means one has rethought something a greater number of times :).

DRUMZ:

re: Gibran usually will leave us with something to think about, something new and controversial.

--He was definitely hard on his contemporaries, he was hard on `patriarchs` and priests (which is why he was excommunicated) for killing the idea of LOVE and GOD with their practices. Beautiful powerful words...I would learn (or relearn) Arabic just to read how he expressed it his language.

re: 9/10 desis/chowkies believe in either religious chauvanism or patriotism. If this is not IDIOCY, then what is it? Of course some of these IDIOTS will accuse me of being arrogant (to which gibran said ``A truth not clearly stated is a half truth``). If I act humble, then i wont be HONEST.

--It is idiocy, I agree. And it`s not arrogant to say that, and it is my opinion that one can be humble and honest.

re: Tempy said his whirling thing has to do with Rumi and the dervishes (the nerve!). --oh yeah, the whirling dervishes...duh! why didn`t i think of that reference!!! (the nerve indeed!) tempoo`s definitely employing a range of references to make his point, which doesn`t necessarily make it any less `analytical`. In uttering this phrase, you may well ask again what `the point` was.

I wondered if you had meant wishy-washy because I`ve never heard the word `wishy` alone! But hey, the way English is employed these days is becoming more of a foreign language than it already is :-)

re: To commemorate involves looking back, resulting in not going forward. --oh, but Drumzy, I disagree. I guess it`s all in the interpretation of the word, hai na? For me, commemoration can help immensely in moving forward. To look back does not necessarily mean to be stuck there, or to be static.

Continue growing! Peace!

temporal #126 On avoiding undue wordiness, on the passage you provide: ``Sahir, Faiz, Habib Jalib, and Sardar Jafri another stalwart of leftist idealism Kaifi Azmi passed away recently. In the sub-continent they kept the flame of idealism burning. They fought for the rights of the peasants and the dis-enfranchised.

In the twentieth century Urdu Poetry they provided a resilient counter point to those advocating status-quo and favouring the conservative values like Iqbal.

Their immense popularity brought them fame and recognition but not power. This provided an ironic silver lining. They could not be blamed for the continued poverty and plight of the masses.

Arguably, Islam created Pakistan and the Talibanised Afghanistan and failed them in 1971 and 2001. We cannot say the same for Communism in South Asia.``

How`s this for making the same point with even fewer words:

``Leftist urdu poets like Sahir, Faiz, Habib Jalib, and Sardar Jafri and the recently deceased Kaifi Azmi never had the chance to implement their vision.`` (25 words).

And of course the point is not earthshaking - no one expects a poet to be given the chance to implement his vision anyway. And thank God for that.

Sadna: ``One possible way to stop young `uns from using colorful language is not to get sidetracked into the moral/aesthetic debate but to point out how STUPID it sounds, st like my elder sis did to my superfluous `damns` in school days :)``

It would greatly help if old people (not just u) would actually start introspecting. It iz not my problem if people want to MENTALLY ASSOCIATE a cruse word with ``stupidity, the lower class, being uncouth, uneducated, vain etc.`` These correlations would be wiped out in the minds of the old if they ever sat down and thought about WHY they AUTOMATICALLY link a curse word with stupidity. Of course INTELLECTUAL LAZINESS prevents the old, rigid desis from RE-THINKING. Its much easier to blindly accept what weve been socialized to believe. .

It is foolish to LIMIT ones vocabulary, specially cuz (for some instances) curse words are the most efficent way of gettin ur THOUGHT across. Of course i dont expect much of a debate-old people have NEVER has anything to bring to this discussion.

Ana: Gibran usually will leave us with something to think about, something new and controversial. To be honest, the reason i bring him up a lot is cuz he sometimes says the same thing as me. Because desis tend to ignore the rule MESSAGE not the messenger, they think my statement will be more true if its linked with his name. Just playing their game. Moreover, he was TOUGH as nails on his contemporaries. He said orientalists want everyone to know their past and use it as a bed to justify their intellectual/moral slumber. They want everything coated with hunny, so if u try calling em stupid, they wont read u. 9/10 desis/chowkies believe in either religious chauvanism or patriotism. If this is not IDIOCY, then what is it? Of course some of these IDIOTS will accuse me of being arrogant (to which gibran said ``A truth not clearly stated is a half truth``). If I act humble, then i wont be HONEST.

Tempy said his whirling thing has to do with Rumi and the dervishes (the nerve!). And I meant wishy washy, like he doesnt use his analytical skillz cuz he has this passive poet persona to rep (my opinion).

As for ur thingy on devdas... I believe that all spiritual people must rethink all that they have known. Analyze why they have their opinions, how many are due to socialization, which would be tru if they were born in a different time/place... To commemorate involves looking back, resulting in not going forward. Compare meditation with namaaz. One has results (u help urself), with the other u ask form an external source using someone elses words which one often timez doesnt understand (Why would a Muslim say ``Qul Allahu Ahad?`` Are we telling Allah to say there is none?). Anyways, i by no means want to change ur opinions. I do think these builds are fruitfull cuz they leave both parties with something to consider. Such iz growth. Peace.

Sameer #30:

I envy those who talk eloquently with economy, persuasion and conviciton. My reasoning is simple. Once those words are uttered they are history. There is no instant `recall`.

The written word is an entirely different ball game. We can write, rewrite and keep on revising and rewriting till we have got our point across in a personally satisfying way.

You are wrong in humbly assuming a position between me and madani! It is just a question of visualisation and trying to see things from a different perspective. Once you have ‘trained’ yourself to see things from a different perch, and then rewriting your own words, you will see a tremendous and pleasant change. Visualise, change the perch, read aloud, pause, change words, drop four words if one will do and keep hammering at the text. Once you do this the results will please you. And then you will look forward to the magic of rewriting.

All my emphasis is on rewriting because I would not tinker with anyone’s writing process. Whatever works for you is fine for the first draft. Here is an example from the first paragraph taken from ‘In Defense of The Left’.

______________________________________________


The recent demise of Kaifi Azmi has practically closed an era of left idealism in Urdu poetry; other notables of this era included Sahir Ludhianvi, Faiz Ahmed Faiz, Josh Maleehabadi, Habib Jalib and Majrooh Sultanpuri. They idealized what was more or less communism and Marxism: detesting bourgeoisie, concerns about the plight of workers, farmers, students, artisans and others at the bottom of socio-economic ladder and highlighting miserable conditions of the poor masses. In fact, at least in quality, Urdu poetry during twentieth century was dominated by the left or progressive idealism. The widespread popularity of their poetry (lyrics, poems and ghazals) brought fame and recognition, though never translating into similar widespread mass appeal for their political ideals. Therefore, by virtue of powerless and unpopular politically, they do not share any blame for the continuous plight of the masses or poverty of South Asian nations. In order for them to share blame, the communism had to succeed in South Asia and then failing, just as Islam succeeded in creating Pakistan and Taliban’s Islamic government in Afghanistan and then failed in 1971 and 2001 respectively.


(word count 183)

_________________________________________________

(now my re-write with minor liberties)

After Sahir, Faiz, Habib Jalib, and Sardar Jafri another stalwart of leftist idealism Kaifi Azmi passed away recently. In the sub-continent they kept the flame of idealism burning. They fought for the rights of the peasants and the dis-enfranchised.

In the twentieth century Urdu Poetry they provided a resilient counter point to those advocating status-quo and favouring the conservative values like Iqbal.

Their immense popularity brought them fame and recognition but not power. This provided an ironic silver lining. They could not be blamed for the continued poverty and plight of the masses.

Arguably, Islam created Pakistan and the Talibanised Afghanistan and failed them in 1971 and 2001. We cannot say the same for Communism in South Asia.

(word count 118)


This is just a cursory attempt. Am sure we can express the same thoughts, with a smoother presentation in under 100 words.

Try this. You may like it. Articulation means using the right word/s: not necessarily using obscure or archaic word out of the thesarus. Leave that for minor obscure poets like temporal:)

regards,

temporal

Subroto #41 And of course those of us who played cricket have at one time or another been sent back to the pavilion with a duck. Some of us scored a duck in the secondary school math class too.

hamidm: ``Yeah, there are 400,000 words in the English language, and there are seven of them that you can`t say on television``

That was then (some decades back) and this is now, and the figure thrown around nowadays is closer to 2 million words. Compared to French, which has only 90,000. (Of which, perhaps 80,000 have to do with l`amour and petit derriere). No wonder the French hate the Anglos and English speakers generally.