Halloween

Tahir Sahib, Yoiu have obviously cut and paste most of what you write (excluding the initial introductory couple of paras.) from somewhere, without attribution and made it your article. Now that (CHEATING) is something SERIOUS to be concerned with. That is unIslamic, not something like holloween, which (as I have explained below) is in fact very much in keeping with the spirit of Islam. I suggest you write another letter - this time to your own schoolteacher, complaining about something that is really serious: that no one taught you to be honest.
As for holloween, it is clearly a healthy community event, where grown ups in the entire neighborhood is for one day participate to let the children enjoy themselves. But I dont think you will understand this concept.

Rabb is a generic term, in Arabic, for a diety who feeds the living creatures. It`s not one of the 99 names of Allah. Prior to Islam one of the 365 idols placed in Kaa`ba was ``attributed`` (not named) as being Rabb. Allah, however, chose another name with the same attribute, which is Ar-Razzaq, meaning the one who feeds. Traditionally, the Muslim scholars have frowned upon the name Abdul - Rabb, which means the worshipper of a diety who feeds; they whoever urge people to change their names to Adul-Razzaq, which means the same but attributes the chracteristic of feeding to Allah, the Only, the ONE.

dost-mittar: acceptance of Rab among Punjabis owes it to Sikh religion. If you notice, Rab is not commonly used word among Sufis who came before Sikh religion. Rab is not as commonly used in Quran as Allah and it is translated into owner or maalik such as Rab-Ul-Alameen meaning ``dunya ka maalik``. Of course, now it is equivalent of God in Punjabi language as you gave many examples. Allah is considered arabic version, Khuda is Persian and Urdu version and Rab is Punjabi equivalent. One of the reason for unpopularity of Khuda in Punjabi is almost rare sound of ``Kh`` or khey of Persian in Punjabi. The ``Kh`` in Punjabi does not represent ``Kh`` of Khuda but ``kh`` of khudda (hole).

Okay – I’ll quote scripture for my own use here :-)

I googled “Allah etymology” and got a very few leads. One of them (url below) gives several meanings (according to different people). Of course I’m quoting the ones which seem most reasonable to me

http://www.voy.com/10734/13549.html

[``The name Allah, as the Quran itself is witness, was well known in pre-Islamic Arabia. Indeed, both it and its feminine form, Allat, are found not infrequently among the theophorous names in inscriptions from North Africa`` (Islam: Muhammad, and His Religion, New York: The Liberal Arts Press, 1958, p. 85). ]

[The word ``Allah`` comes from the compound Arabic word, al-ilah. Al is the definite article ``the`` and ilah is an Arabic word for ``god.`` It is not a foreign word. It is not even the Syriac word for God. It is pure Arabic. (There is an interesting discussion of the origins of Allah, in ``Arabic Lexicographical Miscellanies`` by J. Blau in the Journal of Semitic Studies, Vol. XVII, #2, 1972, pp. 173-190). ]

There are also some others which seem a bit odd. (One claims Allah is related to Bel…) Anyway, see for yourself and make up your own minds. My money is now on Ilah (modified from Lah, sorry Stuka).

Al-Ilah contracts to Allah. (Also makes sense if you think of “la ilaha” )

Buuuuuuuuut I have also heard in college of the Hebrew word El, which I think was presented as a proper noun rather than a generic one – sometimes it is hard to differentiate ideological from grammatical in these cases, and as it was a Church college I’m not sure which it was (they might not have been absolutely sure either).

El is also used in the Shema, a Hebrew prayer which is traditionally said by Jews before they die. It starts “Shema Yisrael, Elohu, Elohim…” and translates something like “Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one…” – though of course if you were observant you’d write El-hu, El-him, the L-rd our G-d etc. Something to do with the exile, I think...

??

stuka: Allah comes from a deity in Kaaba called Al or El which might or might not have been originated from Elohim of Jews. There were many other tribes in the history of middle east with their own dieties. El is more of a Sumerian or Babylonian origin than Jewish. Jews might have stolen their Elohim form the same source too.
Another term very acceptable to Sikhs in particular is Rab which was another diety in Kaaba or it was Al-Rab, perhaps same as Al. The Al was either a favorite of Quresh tribe or Khadija clan (I forget the details) and other tribes had their favorite deities too.

stuka #79:

{What is ``Allah``?? Is it the God of Muslims? Or is it a generic term for God? The Old Testament refers to God as Yahweh. Not Jesus, mind you, but God. That ``God`` is also God of the Chosen people ie Jews. Now is Allah therefore a god specific to Muslims? Or is it a generic term for god, as used in the English language?}

to which Zafar #82 replies:

{It’s just Arabic for God. Al-lah=The God. “The” because only one. Your Maltese friend (who, btw, speaks the only semitic language written in the Roman script, just FYI) is right.}

Stuka may be interested to know that the Hebrew Old Testament uses at least *two* words for the divinity of the Jews. The first is `Yawheh` or `Jehovah` (actually written as four symbols YHWH, with the vowel values presently unknown). The other name is `Elohim`, which is the *plural* of `Eloah`, which I believe is the exact cognate of `Allah` in a sibling Semitic tongue. (Why this word almost invariably appears in the plural is a subject of theological speculation.)

Yahweh/Jehovah is better known to the general public and is the name most closely associated with the jealous and vindictive tribal divinity of a chosen people. But the first chapter of the Book of Genesis has the role of the creator in the creation myth played by Elohim; Yahweh doesn`t show up until the second chapter! The Jewish Shema (the most common Jewish prayer) uses both words in juxtaposition to indicate that Yawheh is the Elohim of Israel. At various places in the OT other, presumably disapproved deities are also referred to as elohim.

Reply Stuka #79

“I had some honest questions on Islam and was wondering if you could answer them as correctly as possible.”

Me? You are asking an aadha Hindu? Parag ho ya pagal ho? HaiN? Sighhh….anyway, yes, of course I’ll do my best. (Tahmed, please jump in to correct.)

“What does the word ``Islam: mean? Some literature said ``Islam`` means ``peace`` and I have heard others say ``submission to God`` which is what you described it as…”

It might be useful to say here that semitic languages have this principle in which groups of three consonants convey a particular core meaning, with permutations of this meaning – ie specific words – being derived by the pattern of additional vowels and consonants you add on and how.

For example – SJD has to do with prayer. From that you get SaJDah (prayer poz), maSJiD (prayer place), and probably several more words. (My cousin, for example, is called SaJiDah.)

As far as I know, SLM has the meaning of peace (as opposed to war) – ie with the connotation of laying down your weapons, ie submission or surrender. Two words from this are iSLaM and SaLaaM.

The idea is that True Peace IS submission to God (or God’s will, if you like).

Contrasting the terms Dar ul Islam and Dar ul Harb may also be useful. Dar ul Harb means “House of War” – or colloquially, the condition of war/strife. Perhaps you can get the feeling of Dar ul Islam by the statement: you can FIGHT God, or you can SUBMIT to him and what is right. Is it all clear as mud now?

“What is ``Allah``?? Is it the God of Muslims? Or is it a generic term for God?”

It’s just Arabic for God. Al-lah=The God. “The” because only one. Your Maltese friend (who, btw, speaks the only semitic language written in the Roman script, just FYI) is right.

LadyAna,
I did not mean to be offensive in # 73 (although I probably was). I go out of my way to be respectful to traditions and people`s beliefs, whether I share them or not. For instance, my mother believes in a ton of religious stuff that is logically absurd. But I respect her right to hold her beliefs because I love her more than anything or anybody else on earth.

I extend the same respect to others` traditions. A dictum I evolved very early in life is: if people want to believe the moon is made of red and green pepper, they are welcome to do so. So long as they do not create suffering for OTHERS and stop them from launching lunar expeditions.

You are so right to say that religion is a personal choice. If we begin to promote ideas and indulge in activities that undermine that principle, we are BOUND to create a society steeped in misery, fascism, stagnation, and totalitarianism. Nobody can be expected to respect those beliefs.

Ask yourself: will you really ``respect`` the right of someone to refuse to offer you equal employment, a glass of water, or let his or her children play with your children just because you are a Muslim? Must your children respect those who tell them that they are headed to hell just because they were born Muslims?

An intelligent person like you knows all that. I just wanted to re-emphasize: I am never against religion; only its forms that are demonstrably harmful to humanity.

Religion is not a good enough excuse for bigotry.

Regards.

Shanzeh, Prem et al - my mind is reeling. I`ve ruffled some feathers that I like quite a bit, and I truly believe I shouldn`t have. Religion is a personal choice. So I`ll just leave it be. We all have our biases, no point arguing about them. I myself am still struggling to find out what Islam means to me.. if anything.. and it will in all likelihood be a life long learning and discovery process. So to each his own. Peace.

Zafar:

I had some honest questions on Islam and was wondering if you could answer them as correctly as possible.

1. What does the word ``Islam: mean? Some literature said ``Islam`` means ``peace`` and I have heard others say ``submission to God`` which is what you described it as...

2. What is ``Allah``?? Is it the God of Muslims? Or is it a generic term for God? The Old Testament refers to God as Yahweh. Not Jesus, mind you, but God. That ``God`` is also God of the Chosen people ie Jews. Now is Allah therefore a god specific to Muslims? Or is it a generic term for god, as used in the English language? I have some Maltese friends who are Catholic but the pray to Allah, and they insist that Allah is not the same as being Muslim coz Allah is part of the trinity ie Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

Yours confusedly...

Parag

(Its LONG, sorry!)

LadyAna:

Easy tiger!! No need to take this personally, like I said this is not a war between US. Anyhow, let me respond to some of your points.

Ok, personally I hate these religious discussions. I am not an Islamic scholar and I do not wish to be, BUT I don’t understand naïve people who are scared to experience the world around them. If God created this world, then I simply accept the world he has created. I have no qualms against doing what I feel is right. I have a problem, however, with the idea that everything should be black and white. If it’s not black, its white. If its not white, its black. Why can’t things just be….

Ok so let’s get a little philosophical!

Immanuel Kant said in his categorical imperative “"Act that the maxim of your will could always hold at the same time as the principle giving universal law.” That is what I do. What is so wrong with my actions? Do I harm anyone if I learn about another religion? Do I harm someone if I sing Christmas carols, which, mind you, I sing even if it’s not Christmas! “Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells!”

If it were universally and naturally accepted by human beings to respect and learn and take part in each other’s religions, the world would be much better off. However, its people like you, LadyAna, who ruin the world for people like me. If the Muslims and the Jewish people could learn to love each other’s religions, would it be so bad? If Muslims and Hindus could love one another’s religions and celebrate Eid, Holi, Diwali, etc together, would it be so terrible? If Christians and Muslims could learn about one another, would it really be horrible?! After all, the degree of one’s faith is known by God and ultimately judged by God. Eventually, it won’t matter how many times a day you prayed, but only how much faith you have. If God is to judge me, then let it be based on my intentions, let it be based on the goodness in my heart, let it be based on my love for him, or let him not judge me at all.

As for you being in “my league”, in the end it’s up to you who you want to be, how you want to live. Ridiculing me may make you somewhat stronger for a short while; it may reinforce your naïve views on how the world should be. However, I do accept all in this world. I accept that we have different religions in this world. I accept that people in this world do things which may not adhere to MY personal religion, BUT this is not something which I have to look down on. I have limits, too. The Netsilik, who are Eskimos in the Arctic region, are hunters and gatherers. However, they have a certain religious practice, which I would not take part in. They hunt seals, and before eating the seals, they participate in a ceremonial feast. They eat the seal’s liver raw, straight out of the body. Do I accept this? Yes. Would I want to see them do this?! DEFINITELY! Would I want to learn more about why they do this?! YES! Would I do it myself? No way! I do accept the way the world is and I do accept that this is the world God has created. I see nothing wrong with that. Anyhow, next point.

LadyAna: “The diwali and holi examples I gave, were to tell u that I too have been on that path that you are currently on, and I rejected that as well as many other paths, but retain the experiences, and therefore know what I am talking about. Unlike u, who have simply seen that one path and that`s it.”

I truly have no idea what you are talking about? In a childlike manner you have simply made an attack at my life without knowing the facts of my life. You don’t even know who I am or anything about my past. Anyhow, it is great that you have participated in Diwali and Holi! Now you should try making Christmas ornaments and lighting up a tree or how about going to a Buddhist temple. I can tell u all places to go in Sri Lanka; I can even arrange it for u! There’s a beautiful statue of sleeping Buddha there. It will just add to your list of wonderful retained experiences. I see nothing wrong with doing any of the above. Anyhow, why don’t you enlighten me as to what this “new path” is that you are on? How has it changed your life? Unless I know, how can I react? Unless you tell me the wonders of your new path, why would I even take it?
LadyAna: “U are upset because I have mocked your ``beliefs``. Yes, I have mocked them. From my experiences, this way of life is shallow and devoid of meaning, just like for you my thinking is shallow and devoid of meaning.”

No. I haven’t said that. You are allowed to live your life the way you want. See, YOUR life will not be shallow and devoid of meaning if it has meaning for YOU! My point is simple:

You can be the way you want to be, I have no problem with that; as a matter of fact, you SHOULD be the way you want to be. But why is it that I cannot be the way I want to be without YOU (and others) having a problem with it???

I also believe in many things supernatural, I believe in witches, in ghosts, in paranormal activities. I believe in aliens, in parallel dimensions, and things that go bump in the night! Will u hate me for all these also? Condemn me, just as we Muslims condemn all those who think for themselves, just as we Pakistanis condemned Abdus Salam, just as we condemned Salman Rushdie, just as we condemn those who are “madrunn and progressive” (quoting YOU), just as we continue to condemn the rest of the world. It will get us nowhere. Next:

“But I have seen a lot of people like you and Saminasha, who ``accept`` so much of the ``goodness`` and ``humanity`` in other religions, that they lose sense of themselves... and become disoriented. You ``love`` humanity, but have no idea where it starts and where it ends.”

I have not lost sense of myself, and I need not explain my life to you. Personal attacks I will not respond to. Humanity starts and ends with God. Is that what you want me to say? I will say it. I do not deny the existence of God. I have never said that I deny the existence of God. I believe in one God, Allah, and Mohammed (PBUH) as the Prophet. Though, I do not deny that Jesus existed, Moses existed, Siddhartha Gautama existed, the list is endless. However, to learn about these religions gives me satisfaction. What’s the big deal? The basis of Buddhism is this: “The Buddha referred to his teaching as simply a raft to leave this shore of suffering and impermanence, and to get to the other shore of bliss and safety, True Permanent Reality, Nirvana. Upon realization of Nirvana, the raft is no longer needed.” You cannot tell me you wouldn’t want to learn more? Anyhow, next point:

“And you cling on to the claim of being a ``Muslim`` but you do not make a point to state that you are NOT the regular run of the mill practicing ``muslim``, you have different views from the majority crowd.”

I have a mind of my own. I follow myself and my beliefs. No. I am not a regular run of the mill Muslim. No. I am an individual, not a cog in a piece of machinery. I am not 7 of 9(reference to Star Trek, couldn’t resist!). :)

“A religion is made by followers who hold sacred a set of certain values, ideals, principles… the majority. When one is not in accordance with the mindframe of the majority, one is either a minority, or still wanting to remain in and identify with the majority, one is a hypocrite. This hypocrisy is what irks me…”

I am a Muslim, plain and simple. I am not half-Muslim, part-Muslim, or trying to be Muslim. Why should I say I am not a Muslim because some other people choose to practice a more rigid form of Islam that I do???????? That is ridiculous!! I will agree that I am a minority, but I will not say that I am not a Muslim or I am half-Muslim or I am part-Muslim just to please you or the “majority”. My faith is between myself and my God, remember?
“there are differences, it is human nature, we must accept them. There are different religions, just as there are different people.”
Yay! You’ve hit on my key point! We must accept the differences and learn from other religions and explore the world around us. I’m sick of saying this!

“Saminasha did not have the gumption probably to respond to my comments directly. Her encouragement to you was instantaneous, but no word directly rebuking my post. I wonder why.”

Why are you taking this so personally? Maybe she didn’t have time??
Ah, you want me to say I am not a practicing Muslim……well I am a practicing Muslim. I practice my faith every second of my life. I practice it when I’m walking, when I’m breathing, when I’m sleeping, and when I’m jumping on my trampoline. I practice it because I don’t need to show that I practice it. I have my faith right where I want it and need it, and I’m not afraid to say it. You don’t just practice your faith when you’re praying or when you’re fasting. Faith should be practiced all the time, everywhere. Those who believe that faith is simply performed during prayer or during fasting don’t realize that that’s not true. This is not to say that faith is NOT practiced at those times. IT IS. However, one can reach an “Islamic Nirvana”, you could say, and this is when true faith is revealed. I will not say I am not a Muslim, I will not say I am no longer a practicing Muslim, I will not bend over backwards to please you!
Its not about you and me, or who’s right and who’s wrong. You are free to be the way I choose. Why am I not free to be the way I choose? You say that religion demands. Religion does not demand. Religion moralizes. Religion teaches us purity and decency and how to lead a good life. You want me to realize and accept who or what my God is? But for who? For you? Why would I even need to do that? A Christian who goes into a Buddhist temple or a Mosque is not asked by his/her fellow Christians to CHOOSE between one god and another. God is inside you. God is in your soul. Your faith should be deeper than that. My faith is.

Seems the madressah brigade is the not the real danger to Islam. Its the 25 year old hijab-wearing Mulismah looking to devour the unsuspecting knight on the shining camel.......................................

later
-sac

P.S: bushmush alias busharraf alias urstruly is baaack.......................

Just a general comment. While I cannot endorse it as a rolemodel, there is something to ponder over how US Christians reconcile with doctrinal/other differences among themselves in a way consistent with their principles of individual/group freedom to pursue religion, democracy AND private enterprise.

The method is simply this, if someone disagrees with some particulars of his church`s Christian principle or practice, he leaves it and joins another church group, more suited to his personal belief. In many of these groups, the congregation often votes on the specific religious guidelines of their church and those who dissent can leave if they wish like Mr Jimmy Carter left the particular branch of Southern Baptists he belonged to because he didnot agree with their injunctions on women in ministry.

Exercising diversity through this method of freedom of choice has led to a proliferation of different church groups and when people say the US has 2000+ religions, most of those 2000+ are Christian `religions`, with the whole range of doomsday cults to strict literalist Christians to the more traditional to more philosophical or borderline atheist represented among them.

And while some of these folks may consider their own choice of doctrine the only Truth and consider the others headed for hellfire, they coexist with civic harmony though with strong corporate competitiveness in many cases(such as when the Catholics fulminate over the increase of Protestantism in S. America for instance, or the well-funded corporate pushes for new converts in Asia).

Its a kind of unity in diversity and dissent which IMO in effect (though not with human deliberation) leaves it to the Person Above to decide who was actually right while also letting many people take a chance and live normal lives and die natural deaths inspite of their diverse beliefs, and it has kept Christianity alive in the US while it is on the decline in the rest of the industrialized world.

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Tahir Gul Hasan,
There is nothing wrong in giving honour to devil(s)? Are`nt they also created by your one and only Allah? There is a devil inside all of us and I find it a good idea to dedicate one day every year to allow those devils appear on our faces.
Infact, many well-known muslims including Saddam Husain, Usama Bin Laden and Yasser Arafat are great devils.
May devil bless you all.

HAPPY HALLOWEEN

Reply LadyAna

“You ``love`` humanity, but have no idea where it starts and where it ends.”

Behain, you are confusing humanity and Islamiyat - if you think about it I’m sure you’ll realise that they aren’t synonymous.

“If one cannot follow the majority views on a religion, one is not of it…”

I’m not sure I would agree. Islam is submission to God, not submission to the beliefs of any majority, right?

My point is, you might believe that this submission entails X, Y and Z, I might think this entails Y, Z and K and a third person might believe that it entails X and Z. We all believe sincerely that we are doing the right thing.

So long as we’re honest about what we are (eg saying that one’s beliefs are not necessarily those held by the majority of those who call themselves Muslim) I don’t think any of us really has the right to say that the other is DEFINITELY wrong, and therefore is not a Muslim.

Only God really knows, right? To believe that we cannot be wrong in our own understanding of faith is to pretend that human fallibility doesn’t exist, or that we are, when it comes to this, not human. Believing one is right is not the same as believing one cannot be wrong.

That’s why I really believe that WE have no right to decide who is or is not a Muslim – and that we are edging into dangerous territory when we start doing that. (Look at the social and political repercussions of that – declaring somebody to be non-Muslim has become a weapon of choice for some - I don’t believe that you’re approaching it like that AT ALL, but even allowing this kind of judgement to become acceptable is taking us all onto a slippery slope.)

Especially when there is no NEED to do that – should Muslims have different codes of conduct (in terms of honesty, respect, compassion) for Muslims and non-Muslims? I don’t believe that we should.

And please note: I am not questioning your right to disagree with people, only your assumption that it is not POSSIBLE for them to be right.

Best regards,

Zafar