LUMS -- Lahore University of mis-Management Sciences

IQRA UNIVERSITY IS THE WAY TO GO -

Come on...

You're talking about the number one management school in Pakistan.

being realistic NUST is a military university, its true they are prejudiced. IBA is semi-govt, they have that mentality too. LUMS is another extreme, most grads from LUMS simply dont fit in later. what all of these schools are doing is increasing their intake every year. IBA`s BCS is total unnecessary. LUMS` chsool of social sciences and mathematics is a burden on job market. the only motive of these unis is money making. many programs in these institutes have no scope in this country. LUMS is much better than any other uni as fas as image management is concerned. if its not fruitful today, it will surely be in near future. grads from both IBA n LUMS get good jobs. IBA`s BBAs are far better than LUMS` BScs. and even if someone claims its not so, still theres no point in paying 5 to 6 times more money for same result. no doubt LUMS` MBA prog is kickass. as such there is no competition as yet between the two schools. both have difff job markets. an IBA grad`s strongest competitors are his own batch mates. same goes for LUMS.

apparently IBA is not cutting into to LUMS` job market and LUMS is not doing that to IBA either. whoever wants a worthy job gets is. and even if they sometimes do which i say they dont, theyre not the only two players. think of it, the trade marketing dept head in PTC is a Greenwich grad!! their HR executive is an ex-PAF personnel and their HR manager is a ``dumb blonde`` MBA from NUST. Thats PTC - the BAT group multinational!!

so i dont think its wise to compare unis on the basis of how many ppl share a room in hostel, or how many humanitis courses are being taught, or whether things are handled by students or admin and so on. if a big FMCG multinational hires u, its not because your school has made u the best, its because ur employer doesnt have much choice!!

believe me a preston grad with one year experience in a big bank or MNC is better than all the fresh grads of IBA and LUMS. while hiring ur employer knows that u dont know jack and he has to teach u everything. the only reason its YOU and not anyone else is because IBA, LUMS and NUST sound way sweeter than Preston, Hamdard and Bahria!!

oh and by the way i not from any of the schools mentioned above. my analysis is free from all prejudice.

I went to IBA, and then to various universities in the US. I still find IBA at par and even better than most US school. Eat your heart out LUMS.

It is not just fancy equipment that makes a school. IBA`s greatest assets are its students.

Bilal u are 100% right. waise bhi there is not much difference left . when comparing LUMS and LSE, Lahore.. and u all know, where LSE, Lahore. stands..

Basically the only real advantage `universities` like LUMS, IBA, GIK, UET, NED provide to their students is that they are generally more well recognised abroad, an advantage for those who want to study for their masters outside the country, and of course, because of their exclusivity here you can expect more students to get jobs.

Mind you, I still dont think that all the above institutions even classify as proper universities. Almost all the educational institutions in Pakistan are schools- mostly business schools, computing schools, engineering schools, medical schools and a few art schools. Thats it. The only three places (PU, KU and GCL) which offer a broader range of disciplines, including those in the humanities, social sciences and fine arts, follow antiquated courses, their systems being rigid and the campuses underequipped and lacking good staff and administration. It is also surprising that these and the two really good art schools in the country, NCA and IVS, have almost no international recognition, and are incredibly underrated here.

So many of our really talented students really have no choice when it comes to going to university. Its either go to one of the former few top places to do something you don`t want to do, although it most certainly will get you a job or at least a place to do masters from abroad, or end up studying the subject of your choice under the most miserable circumstances and almost no hope of a secure future. Thus it is that so many talented students who wanted to do their bachelors in say, Sociology, or Political Science, or English Lit, or Comms Design are found wasting their time and talent at a myriad of both elite and not so elite `schools`.

We really need to develop and market our few `real` universities, and otherwise expand our horizons in terms of the choices we give our frustrated youth.

well well well...IBA this and IBA that....frankly my friends i am not in the least bit amused by IBA nor its so called ``prestige``..I do recognise and respect that it is a good University but the maturity of the students is a different matter, as can be seen by the patriotic rhetoric without any sound reasoning .LUMS may have its faults but to deny it the recognition and respect that it surely deserves and to reduce it to the level of other Universities is nothing more than a travesty of standards. LUMS has the best MBA degree in all of the country and its market value is very high indeed. I am not just sayin what i please but bare facts; my own sister was a LUMS graduate and she was offered a vocation by Arthur Anderson which is was at that time one of the most reputed organisations known. Her first job in Pakistan was at a STARTING salary of Rs 60,000. I think this ONE example is enough to dispel any apprehentions about sending ones children to this instiution.

Furthermore my first year at LUMS has been remarkable and despite some of the TEMPORARY constraints, i have learned more about my abilites and limits than can possibly be imagined. The faculty is world class with teachers from Harvard, princeton etc. Setting all this aside LUMS has been bold enough to introduce cutting edge law programmes and initiating an engineering department.

Yes the triple occupancy is the situation prevailing at present but that is to be corrected within this year as the new hostel is nearing completion. Also the story of hostelites not having door knobs and basic essentials is pure rubbish as i am from the batch of 2007 and i can account for the fact that we were accorded all the privilages and luxuries that we recieved at home. There is no truth in that particular tale.

I just wanted to clear these matters up as i believe that bashing an institution just for the sake of gaining some cheap points for ones own University is really immature. I hope no one minds this posting but i respect all other Universities but can not stand by to see mine disrespected.

i was a student of mechanical engineering in college of EME, NUST for three semesters and then i left NUST and came to IBA. the biggest problem that NUST had was they treat the civilians like commissioned cadets too, there are restrictions in NUST, yes. the authorities are very rigid. as a hostelite you cant go out of campus after 10pm, and that too with the written permission of company commander. there was prejudice in NUST. once a civilian does something wrong, hes in for it, but incase of a technical cadet, they wont let anyone know what happened, all the fees that theyre collecting from NUSTians theyre spending on teh Cadets, so there was lots of controversy on these issues.
but theres anotehr side to the picture as well, NUST doubtlessly has the better faculty by far than any otehr institute in the country. i dont know whats teh sourse of ijaz_guls statistics of a student teacher ration of 1-80, its totally incorrect. Let me make one thing clear that EME, MCS, MCE etc are not colleges or universities, these are basically military units. the mechanical, solar and electronic labs, the workshops (automobile, woodworking, welding etc) are all superior to labs in any other institute. they have teh highly skilled staff, and believe me they`re making a good use of it. yes, theres this scarf, dupatta culture, but then male to female ratio is something like one to humdred. what else do u expect to happen.
then theres iba. fortunately theres no such restrictions in iba, hostel is free of any authorities, all departments are under students, no study timings, no dress code ect.
There can absolutely be no comparison between NUST and LUMS or IBA, NUST is a military institute, u cant expect it to be like IBA or LUMS, there has to be all those restrictions and thats understandable.
By the way what extraordinary have LUMS graduates and students achieved living in that ``sans restrictions`` environment? IBA offers more professionalism, all departments such as accounts, hostel management, auditing, sports, conferences, publications, etc are under students. IBA has a much better job market than LUMS, not only in Karachi but all over the country. And thats the reason why i chose IBA over LUMS, it`ll take time for LUMS to get anywhere near IBA, ages i believe!

Please refer to # 172
WHAT ABOUT NUST.

i heard this stuff about LUMS from alot of people who study there. It is pretty sad. I hope the administration will make the due changes sooner than later.

I am extremely sorry to disappoint you, but you couldn`t be farther away from the correct interpretation of the text.

By no means, I was comparing LUMS to IBA... and even if I do, I`d rate it much higher than IBA. This is not because of any bias that I have but due to many reasons.

All the other institutions in Pakistan (besides LUMS) treat you like a bunch of kids, imposing restrictions on you like attendacne, campus timings, hostel timings, what to wear, what not to wear. LUMS is the only place where you can seriously experience the diversity and tolerance- diversity especially in terms of intellectual discourse.

LUMS was the ONLY university in Pakistan that has a somewhat respectable Liberal Arts programme, latest addition being the Beaconhouse National University. Although it is nowhere compared to the world standards, but it is a bold initiative anyhow. What this does is that it enriches and broadens your persective, so that you aren`t just another Bachelor who only knows how to administer business or how to work with a computer. In IBA there are just 12 courses in humanities. In LUMS the number is 5 to 6 times the above.

I don`t want to go into the details of the job prospects because a. it bores me; and b. we all know the truths.

Facilities at LUMS are great. And everyone at LUMS used to enjoy the `LUMS experience`.. the article`s basically about the frustration of students over the current steps taken by the LUMS administration.

Hope I`ve made it clear enough.

Bilal

After reading that article about LUMS i must say its really about time!!! Its about time that someone had the guts to uncover the bitter truth that is LUMS! It is about time that some person has had the guts to actually tell us where the annual fees of 3 lacs is being wasted...

I am an IBA student and am from Islamabad. When I came to Karachi people were rather surprised that i had given IBA preference over LUMS. I now end my silence and explain why:

1. LUMS costs 3 lacs annuallly ( which comes to 12 lacs for 4 yrs) and you dont have a guaranteed job when u graduate. When u come out of IBA u have payed 2 lacs for four years and u have a comparitive advantage over LUMS graduates in the industry.

2. IBA has a 46 yr old reputation of producing excellence in the form of academic achievers time and time again.

3. It sets standards of excellence in areas of professionalism, focus and proactiveness in the Pakistani industry.

4. The actual exposure that IBAians get from the industry is undisputably the most in any degree in Pakistan.

5. IBA students are taught to be independent. I am currently in the third semester of my BBA and am Mashallah handling sponsership funds of 30 lacs for an upcoming international investment conference in January.

6. The IBA alumni regularly visit the institute to help graduating batches with jobs and give them a feel for the industry.

7. IBA students are taught not to sell themselves short. I know atleast 5 LUMS grads teaching as school teacher in Alevel colleges in Karachi and as call center operators. Is that what their teaching the kids there? Money , money and more money? Has the pursuit for materialistic goods become so important that students come out with a BSc. Hons in Computer science degree and become school teachers and telephone operators just because they are paying them well? Whatever happened to self respect?

8. I am relieved that i dont have to live in the crazy and expensive enviroment that LUMS personifies. IBA HOSTELITES have single rooms and have a cost effective messing facility with very good food and lodging conditions.

9. Last but not least, LUMS is increasing its batch every year. They actually think that it helps. The criteria to get into IBA is far tougher and only the cream of the academic arena get selected for studies at the IBA.I personally know 15 other friends who appeared both for SAT I, II and the IBA test. They all failed the IBA test. When my batch started three semesters ago we were a batch of 90. We now stand at 70 and are sure that by the time we graduate we will be around 50-60. Who do u think is gonna get the jobs?50 top quality grads or a batch of 400?

Ive given the arguments. You decide!!!

I feel you guys are being too harsh on LUMS. The decision taken to expand fast should also be appreciated. Agreed that facilities should also have been developed at an even faster pace.

Se thee thing in project management is that you have to compromise on at least of the three constraints: quality, time, and money. I guess management is doing the best it can to raise money. Time? Well, about recruiting more people for whom hostel would be constructed next year, imagine this. Majority of those would not have been able to join LUMS at all if this measure was not adopted! Yeah, after one year of relatively bad experience, things would turn out to be better. And its also an limited experience which might rather add to character. So quality, the third constraint, has suffered (temporarily as you say) in aspect of hostel and downloading speed. Well, all hell is not breaking loose.

Regarding student to teacher ratio, I think they`re trying to find new/more quality faculty. But I would not advocate improving the ratio by turning down admission applications.

As far as international rating of LUMS is concerned, its not just quality of education and graduates. The rating agencies also give weightage to number of schools, PHDs graduating, and research, etc. So as far as quality of LUMS graduates is concerned, they are equitable to National University of Singapore & Indian Institute of Management, Ahmedabad. Obviously it also depends on person to person. IQ and EQ is not something that a University imparts!

#171 by lalib

Funny you mention that. I met a few people at college (foreigners from other countries) who sat through lectures without understanding the term ``kinetic energy`` till you tried explaining it to them. Then, they`d realise what was going on and substitute some word in their native tongue for it... Seems like what you mention is not a problem solely affecting Pakistan but is pretty common around the world.

I agree with you though. I think it`s time people stopped looking at a move to promote the ability to understand English as some kind of a complexed mindset. The bulk of the present-day knowledge that`s out there is in English and if learning the language is what it takes to acquire this knowledge, so be it. Translating all scientific works to Urdu is great and should be done if it promotes the spread of knowledge, but it just doesn`t scale well enough.