Apple, Cross and Karakuli*

temp, farzana:
Sorry I didn`t see your posts earlier. Thanks for clarifying the use of `oos`.
I think the same can be said about the use of ``tum`` in an opposite sense, that is, it can be used to reduce the distance between ``hum`` aur aap``. Indeed, in my long-ago reading of Urdu novels and afsaanas, a big deal was made by the hero when he switched from ``aap`` to ``tum`` to indicate the end of formal relationship and the start of intimacy.

Soundmeister: aap shaayad jaantay nahin lekin temporal mere ustaad hain. . .

soundmeister #18

Perhaps you should demonstrate to us,
The ignorant ones, the Chowk illiteratus,
How real poetry is written,
Else we shall remain smitten,
With our poet laureate,
aka temporal the great.

SR
..please do not read too much there…just some playful take off on the word ‘merge’ ferzi used in her post…she wondered why ‘I’ was was missing in a line…I thought with inverted commas its usefulness was redundant…besides it would have tipped the scales somewhat…

…thus will your will be done, not mine… indeed!

tahmed32
Ooperwalay ki taufeeq say aainda hum tauheed ko tauheed hee likhaiNgay…maazrat?…

soundmeister
nawazish, karam aur shukria
aap ki baat dimagh ko lagti hay
laikin kumbukht dil nahin manta
aap humaiN bardasht karaiN aur hum...

rgds,

t

temporal saheb,
you are truly amazing. incapable of taking good advice I see. kitnay baari kahoon, stop writing poetry. you can`t.
just because your merry brigade of sycophants comes along and you indulge in your little game of mutual

---

for want of a better word

---

gratification, are u under the impression that you have poetic ability? hey you can`t even write 3 paragraphs in the same language mate!
ansari, please come back with an antidote to this bilge....

temporal # 11

Bhai! atleast you must know what ``Adrak`` is, whereas, ``Boozna`` is monkey and ``Lazzat`` is 100% urdu.khair, let me translate.

What does a monkey know about the taste of ginger.

temporal #14 So, this is the same apple tree that got Adam and Eve in trouble. Thanks for the explanation. Personally, I am glad they got out of that joint (Aden) - it was after all a hippie style nudist camp. With plenty of fruit and birds and animals (where lions presumably lived on grass and berries and drank from the same stream as lambs which they would never dream of eating)....and we all know how long the hippie movement lasted before they all got bored and got jobs.

So, let sing praises to that apple tree that got adam and eve ejected from heaven...

PS: btw, my first name is not tawfeeq. and the nick tahmed32 is just fine.

temporal #13 [``...laikin is case main aasmaaN say nikala gaya, saleeb per chaRhaya gaya or bistar per …``]

Thanks for spelling it out. Though I`d suspected as much but couldn`t be sure of the context?

[``...Where is the ‘I’ donning the karakuli?
pata nahin…perhaps the ‘I’ is merging, emerging , submerging within the inverted commas?...``]

This statement I don`t get. You are getting too abstract on me. Please help out the materialists among us by including a tashreeH

And now to the CROSS.

[``...fate, chance or promise was it
you went up and came down as well
and believers are forever
being nailed to new’r crosses. ...``]

``They seem to mean business. They are taking my measurement from head to tow. Now is the time, now is the time, father, to call it off, to stop this freightening make-believe. These men are pressing me down against the stake. It cannot be, they cannot do this to me, it cannot be borne. A voice is howling like a wolf`s, it cannot be mine. It cannot be true that this is happening to me. These broken hands are not mine. This filth comes not out of me. This rising higher and higher up in white flames of pain is happening not to me. I am rising and sinking, turning on a wheel, and the people look on. The sun has turned black and darkness fills the air, I must not faint. I must look into your eyes, if you have eyes to see. Eli, eli, how can you bear watching this? Thou dumb spirit, mirage of the desert, ignoble absence, thou art not, hast never been. Only a parable. And my own death another parable; they will remember it and twist its meaning. They will torture and kill in the name of a parable. They will fight insane wars for its correct interpretation. They will slay children for the love of a metaphor and burn women alive in the praise of an alegory. And thus will your will be done, not mine.``

taufeeq

just for this your next three indiscretions are forgiven in advance:)…this is a conditional offer…you have to agree not to debase sufis and gurus when you refer to temporal musings in future…

What does the tree in the Apple stand for?

it is the physical, recognizable, attackable source of our troubles according to certain beliefs/myths (take your pick)

…ah!...imagine a life with no tax returns, no nine to five carrotussle, no deadlines, no artificially polite conversations, no messages to return, no off-springs who really think they are god’s gift to you, no bothersome current or ex girl-friends (am referring to off-springs, M, qas’m lay lo), no insinuations to join weight-watchers anonymous, no chowk, no ‘net…..gawd that will be unadulterated and wholesome boredom…that would be death…that would be absence of life…so…back to apple…or was it grapes?…hamidm, help!

...re: karakuli..am surprised…it struck a cord with so many…shukria…tah-e-dil say…

rgds,

t

ferzi

‘set’ tenor, theme, yaar yeh sub tou baRay logouN ki baataiN haiN…hum say tou ghaltiaN hosakhti haiN balkay expect karni chahiyay…

rahi baat ‘disparate’ ki tou aap nay woh kahawat tou zaroor suni hogi Aasman say gira, khajoor main atka…laikin is case main aasmaaN say nikala gaya, saleeb per chaRhaya gaya or bistar per …;)

Where is the ‘I’ donning the karakuli?
pata nahin…perhaps the ‘I’ is merging, emerging , submerging within the inverted commas?

…aap nay yaad dilaya tou yaad aaya…L is inundated…but I did recall you came upto the challenge…specially liked your gender switch take on one of them…

bspnd,

t

subroto
confess to my partiality…urdu is accommodating and forgiving…it is so adoptive to and of foreign influences…read more in my response to dost next…

rahi baat raqs-e-hangaam ki…tou bhai…yeh koi aisa waisa raqs nahiN tha…yeh tou raqs-e-hangaam-e-bay-khudi thaa…yahaaN per seedhi saadhi angraizi thoRi si peechay reh jaati hay…climax ya ecstasy waghera lafzoun main bhala woh baat kahaaN?

…aap tou masha’allah buhat achcha likhtay haiN…humaiN il’m na thaa kay aap ko urdu/hindi bhee pasand hay…

dost-mittar
aap ki baat ka jawab ferzi bibi nay pehlay hee day dya hay…

kul sham aik baRi achchi mehfil hui thee…mehmaan-e-khusoosi thay janab shaan ul haq haqqi sahib…he is an scholar, transalator, poet, lexigrapher, and a legend…an indefatigable 80+…OUP has just published his English Urdu dictionary and he is working on the fifteenth volume of his magnum opus…a dictionary of urdu with complete references to the originating source of the word from its root to urdu…how it was used in the originating language…how and when it came into urdu and how over the times its usage has changed…his conviction, passion and humility shone through…you would have enjoyed him…

rgds,

t

ana

you set the ball rolling…:)

Banjaara

kalaam-e-meer samjhay aur zabaan-e-meerza samjhay
magar oon ka kaha yeh aap samjhaiN ya khuda samjhay

:)

Nazar

message retrieve aur pass karanay ka shukria…rahi baat oos ki…tou janab yeh fetish nahiN haqeeqat ki manzar nigari thee;)

Veeru

...this JM is my friend and Nazar’s colleague...

samm

thanks

rgds, lve,

…t

Loved the karakuli t-empaiku
Perhaps since it stuck on my head
Like a well-fitted karakul
And did not simply hit my head
Like an apple falling from the tree
And bounce off.

Dictionary:
t-empaiku (n): Ancient form of poetry. Characterized by 3-6 verses, rendered first in one language and then leavened and enriched in a second language.
Originator reputed to be an exiled sufi-poet who went by the name of temporal. Other scholars refer to him as t-bhai, claiming ancient scrolls found from a certain Saminasha that refer to t-bhai point to the same sufi. Appears to have been worshipped as the descendent of the Sun-god in the early days of the internet.


PS to the Great t-guru:
1. What does the tree in the Apple stand for??
2. The one on the cross is OK. But karakuli is a masterpiece.

temp:
Would have preferred the `set` to be of a particular tenor...the three are so completely disparate. And yet again, the Urdu ones have a lightness of touch. I think only `saleeb` looks in fact better as `The Cross`. See the last two lines in `Karakuli`...they are not supposed to merge. Where is the `I` donning the karakuli? `Saib`...how can I forget it?? :) Remember that open challenge to transcreate it and the bullying you and L indulged in when I was new here? I still feel that the jazbaat is held back in English...

dost-mittaji:
By using the third person -- ``oos`` -- the poet is striving to achieve a distance that is illusory, and perhaps also leaving nothing to chance :)

temp:
I like the karakuli one, especially the urdu version.
Is `oos aur hum` more acceptable than `tum aur hum`? :-)

``raqs-e-hangaam`` ooh is that what they call it? From raqs to riches....
Actually I quite liked it, the poem that is.
Aap likte jao aur hum padhte jayengay and hopefully this won`t turn into another forum for the intellectually challenged.
``raqs-e-hangaam`` eh? (Sorry for being so obsessed over the words...got this schoolboy brain trapped in a thirty something body).