Vajpayee’s Srinagar offer of Talks to Pakistan
K G Singh September 25, 2003
#408 Posted by HaroonEllahi on September 25, 2004 6:29:04 am
What would happen if BJP and it`s more political offshoots came to power in the next election? Could they make India into a Hindu Republic?
Who is Mr. Affirmitiveaction. Wharton?
Rsridhar, the reason why there are not widespread demonstrations by the masses is because of illetracy. The illetracy rates are falling and people are more concerned with putting bread and butter on the table instead of getting into these shananigans.
Any hows,
cya
Who is Mr. Affirmitiveaction. Wharton?
Rsridhar, the reason why there are not widespread demonstrations by the masses is because of illetracy. The illetracy rates are falling and people are more concerned with putting bread and butter on the table instead of getting into these shananigans.
Any hows,
cya
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#407 Posted by rsridhar on October 3, 2003 7:25:15 am
re:#406 by arjun_m
As i said, i would not take these jehadi-minded chowkies seriously. Sometimes one has to respond to various allegations but by and large i think one can stay clear of these characters. They are high on the testosterone level and low on I.Q.
I have come to one conclusion. Barring a few (people like Asma Jehangir), few give a rat`s A$$ to democracy in Pakistan. There are a lot of so called ``westernised elite`` making a lot of noise in newspapers and public fora but have you ever seen any popular demonstrations in Pak in favor of democracy? Pak does not deserve democracy because Pakis have no concept of what that word means and they are not willing to fight for their own rights. They are happy under a dictator as long as that dictator puts up some semblance of a fight against India. That seems to be the big thing with Pakis: how Pak looks vis-a-vis India.
So, talking to Pakis about lack of democracy in their country or asking them why a dictator continues to rule them after 50 years is like (as the popular hindi proverb goes) ``bhais ke agey been bajana`` (playing flute in front of a buffallo). That is one thing i have learnt from Chowk.
Sridhar
As i said, i would not take these jehadi-minded chowkies seriously. Sometimes one has to respond to various allegations but by and large i think one can stay clear of these characters. They are high on the testosterone level and low on I.Q.
I have come to one conclusion. Barring a few (people like Asma Jehangir), few give a rat`s A$$ to democracy in Pakistan. There are a lot of so called ``westernised elite`` making a lot of noise in newspapers and public fora but have you ever seen any popular demonstrations in Pak in favor of democracy? Pak does not deserve democracy because Pakis have no concept of what that word means and they are not willing to fight for their own rights. They are happy under a dictator as long as that dictator puts up some semblance of a fight against India. That seems to be the big thing with Pakis: how Pak looks vis-a-vis India.
So, talking to Pakis about lack of democracy in their country or asking them why a dictator continues to rule them after 50 years is like (as the popular hindi proverb goes) ``bhais ke agey been bajana`` (playing flute in front of a buffallo). That is one thing i have learnt from Chowk.
Sridhar
#406 Posted by arjun_m on October 2, 2003 7:58:50 pm
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#405 Posted by rsridhar on October 2, 2003 6:58:11 pm
re:#390 by HisExcellency
So, to repeat the question that has been asked in Chowk many times, how many generals /army officers incriminated in the Hamdoor Rehman report have been prosecuted?
It is a stupid question of course. Pak has been ruled (directly or indirectly) by military dictators since its inception. So, where is the question of prosecuting any army officer?
Sridhar
So, to repeat the question that has been asked in Chowk many times, how many generals /army officers incriminated in the Hamdoor Rehman report have been prosecuted?
It is a stupid question of course. Pak has been ruled (directly or indirectly) by military dictators since its inception. So, where is the question of prosecuting any army officer?
Sridhar
#404 Posted by rsridhar on October 2, 2003 6:58:11 pm
re:#386 by HassanShah
Hey Jehadi Boy,
Care to give us the Url on that report?
Sridhar
Hey Jehadi Boy,
Care to give us the Url on that report?
Sridhar
#403 Posted by rsridhar on October 2, 2003 6:58:11 pm
re:#385 by HisExcellency
So, your brilliant Mushy planned the Kargil without taking into account the fact that India can choose to widen the conflict when it chooses. What did Mushy think? That Kargil would remain a border conflict?
Nawaz Sharief was just a scape goat. He had to rush to US to save Pakistan. And who gets the accolades? Mushy! And who dismisses the elected govt (elected by 2/3rds majority) when Army`s predominance is threatened? Mushy! It is the same story again and again from Ayub Khan onwards. Looks like you guys just do not learn your lessons.
Sridhar
So, your brilliant Mushy planned the Kargil without taking into account the fact that India can choose to widen the conflict when it chooses. What did Mushy think? That Kargil would remain a border conflict?
Nawaz Sharief was just a scape goat. He had to rush to US to save Pakistan. And who gets the accolades? Mushy! And who dismisses the elected govt (elected by 2/3rds majority) when Army`s predominance is threatened? Mushy! It is the same story again and again from Ayub Khan onwards. Looks like you guys just do not learn your lessons.
Sridhar
#402 Posted by rsridhar on October 2, 2003 6:58:11 pm
re:#381 by puyu
I would advice you and other Indians strongly not to respond to allegations of atrocities against minorities by Pakis in Chowk. Except for a few enlightened ones like tahmed, Nazarhayat, Feroz etc, rest of the crowd harbour a jehadi mentality. It is impossible to convince these jehadi-minded chowkies that minorities in India live in relative peace, incidents like Godhra notwithstanding.
It is their ideological belief (carefully drilled thr` school, media etc) that makes it imperative for them to believe that minorities (especially muslims) cannot simply be happy in India. They simply have to believe in that ideology to sustain them and their benighted nation.
Pakistan, you must have figured out by now, is the very antithesis of India. The two are poles apart. So, you are wasting your time if you are interaciting with this jehadi crowd, trying to convince this jehadi crowd that India is a secular nation. They will not believe it. Their best detractors are Indian muslims like ballukhan, who are doing a fine job in chowk.
Sridhar
I would advice you and other Indians strongly not to respond to allegations of atrocities against minorities by Pakis in Chowk. Except for a few enlightened ones like tahmed, Nazarhayat, Feroz etc, rest of the crowd harbour a jehadi mentality. It is impossible to convince these jehadi-minded chowkies that minorities in India live in relative peace, incidents like Godhra notwithstanding.
It is their ideological belief (carefully drilled thr` school, media etc) that makes it imperative for them to believe that minorities (especially muslims) cannot simply be happy in India. They simply have to believe in that ideology to sustain them and their benighted nation.
Pakistan, you must have figured out by now, is the very antithesis of India. The two are poles apart. So, you are wasting your time if you are interaciting with this jehadi crowd, trying to convince this jehadi crowd that India is a secular nation. They will not believe it. Their best detractors are Indian muslims like ballukhan, who are doing a fine job in chowk.
Sridhar
#401 Posted by ballukhan on October 2, 2003 4:24:30 am
Reg #398 by puyu on October 1, 2003 9:45am PT
Ditto for #395
Ditto for #395
#400 Posted by arjun_m on October 2, 2003 4:24:30 am
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#399 Posted by stuka on October 1, 2003 12:18:00 pm
puyu:
HE is a bit of an enigma. His mastery of the facts are exemplary, but his conclusions seem to be very far from where stand. It is not a question of bigotry but of interpretation and forecast.
HE is a bit of an enigma. His mastery of the facts are exemplary, but his conclusions seem to be very far from where stand. It is not a question of bigotry but of interpretation and forecast.
#397 Posted by puyu on October 1, 2003 9:13:05 am
++
Without historical perspective, we cannot objectively evaluate Pakistan (or for that matter) India`s role in Kashmir especially in the ongoing 14-year insurgency. Since there is not enough distance in time between us and the insurgency, any such evaluation is bound to be subjective and uninformed.
++
Doesn`t this make all your previous arguments meaningless?
++
Vajpayee wanted peace ....was not ready for a unilateral about-turn on Kashmir in 1999.
++
Well ,now you are not as bigoted as others make you out to be!! ;-)
Yourt views here are very very close to the Indian outlook.
Without historical perspective, we cannot objectively evaluate Pakistan (or for that matter) India`s role in Kashmir especially in the ongoing 14-year insurgency. Since there is not enough distance in time between us and the insurgency, any such evaluation is bound to be subjective and uninformed.
++
Doesn`t this make all your previous arguments meaningless?
++
Vajpayee wanted peace ....was not ready for a unilateral about-turn on Kashmir in 1999.
++
Well ,now you are not as bigoted as others make you out to be!! ;-)
Yourt views here are very very close to the Indian outlook.
#396 Posted by mumbaikar on October 1, 2003 9:00:40 am
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#395 Posted by ballukhan on October 1, 2003 8:13:52 am
How the Paki military hate machine thinks....this news is about sick guys!!!!!!
Pak troops raid Indian posts (and severed the head of a soldier)
PTI[ WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 01, 2003 01:00:47 PM ]
JAMMU: Troops along the Indo-Pak border have been put on high alert in the wake of surprise raids by Pakistan army`s sabotage Border Action Teams (BATs) that attack Indian posts to push heavily armed militants in Jammu and Kashmir.
``Pakistan troops have started a fresh gameplan of conducting raids by its specialised sabotage group, BATs, that target Listening Posts and border patrol along the Line of Control (LoC) in order to engineer infiltration of heavily armed militants into Jammu and Kashmir recently,`` top defence sources said here on Wednesday.
In one recent attack, Pak soldiers crossed the LoC and raided a border patrol of the Jat Regiment in Jangard area of Noushera sector in Rajouri district and killed four jawans.
The team, while going back, severed the head of a soldier and took it away with them as a trophy, the sources said. A fortnight before, four more jawans were killed in another such attack on a Listening Post in Uri sector of Baramulla district.
Surprise raids by Pakistani soldiers have occurred after a gap of three years.
Pak troops raid Indian posts (and severed the head of a soldier)
PTI[ WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 01, 2003 01:00:47 PM ]
JAMMU: Troops along the Indo-Pak border have been put on high alert in the wake of surprise raids by Pakistan army`s sabotage Border Action Teams (BATs) that attack Indian posts to push heavily armed militants in Jammu and Kashmir.
``Pakistan troops have started a fresh gameplan of conducting raids by its specialised sabotage group, BATs, that target Listening Posts and border patrol along the Line of Control (LoC) in order to engineer infiltration of heavily armed militants into Jammu and Kashmir recently,`` top defence sources said here on Wednesday.
In one recent attack, Pak soldiers crossed the LoC and raided a border patrol of the Jat Regiment in Jangard area of Noushera sector in Rajouri district and killed four jawans.
The team, while going back, severed the head of a soldier and took it away with them as a trophy, the sources said. A fortnight before, four more jawans were killed in another such attack on a Listening Post in Uri sector of Baramulla district.
Surprise raids by Pakistani soldiers have occurred after a gap of three years.
#394 Posted by ballukhan on October 1, 2003 8:08:58 am
Pak neck-deep in terrorism: British MP
IANS[ WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 01, 2003 01:56:39 PM ]
NEW DELHI: A leading British parliamentarian says he is ``completely convinced`` after a visit to Jammu and Kashmir that Pakistan is actively supporting cross-border terrorism in the strategic border state.
``I came here a little sceptical of the claim that Pakistan is actively supporting cross-border infiltration, terrorism in Jammu and Kashmir. I thought probably they were turning a blind eye rather than actually encouraging terrorism.
``I am going back completely convinced that the Pakistani authorities are actively engaged in supporting cross-border terrorism in a deeply, profound way,`` Peter Luff, assistant chief of the Conservative Party in the House of Commons, told IANS in an interview here.
Luff, who is leading a 10-member delegation of the Conservative Parliamentary Friends of India (CPFI) on a visit to this country, spent two days in Jammu and Kashmir over the weekend. The CPFI was set up to create a bridge of understanding about India in British Parliament, he said.
``The case is made. We are absolutely convinced Pakistan is up to its neck in supporting terrorism in Jammu and Kashmir,`` Luff, widely seen as a potential leader of the Conservative Party, said.
He said what convinced him and his team about Pakistan`s active complicity in cross-border terrorism was the briefing given to them by the army authorities in Jammu and Kashmir.
``I am absolutely convinced by the case. We have seen the captured documents, intercepts of telecommunications,`` he added.
He said he was ``very grateful`` to Pakistan for its support in fighting terrorism in Afghanistan. ``I say thank you but it must understand that terrorism is a global phenomenon wherever it occurs.
``And just because of the problem over Kashmir between India and Pakistan it (Islamabad) cannot selectively fight terrorism when it suits them,`` he added.
``I am going to talk to the Pakistani high commissioner when I go to London (and ask), what is your perspective and why is it happening,`` Luff said.
He said as a ``complex and a fragile`` country he understood the political realities of Pakistan. ``But it is no excuse to actively support terrorism.``
At the same time, Luff said India was not totally blame-free. ``I am also convinced that India does not have an absolutely fair record in Jammu and Kashmir`` and it had to address that.
``There is a certain insensitivity on the part of the security forces in dealing with the civilians. But the big difference is that it is not the policy of the Indian government.
``That happens perhaps the young men in the security forces are not trained well, or perhaps they just get carried away by the situations. It is more a matter of training and discipline,`` he added.
He said he was ``delighted`` with his visit. ``This is the one of the most interesting foreign trips I have made as a parliamentarian. I have learned more, seen more and I have been treated better than I have ever been treated before.``
He described the Indian economy as ``one of the most important economies of the world now.``
``I knew this but it has been dramatically brought home to me during the visit. It has become quite clear that Britain must engage in every possible level with the Indian economy,`` he added.
``It is clear that India and China are the most important emerging economies. Perhaps there is a little more fascination with China than India at the moment (in Britain) and it is important to sharpen people`s perception about India where Britain can take advantage of the development in India and India of what is taking place in Britain,`` he added.
IANS[ WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 01, 2003 01:56:39 PM ]
NEW DELHI: A leading British parliamentarian says he is ``completely convinced`` after a visit to Jammu and Kashmir that Pakistan is actively supporting cross-border terrorism in the strategic border state.
``I came here a little sceptical of the claim that Pakistan is actively supporting cross-border infiltration, terrorism in Jammu and Kashmir. I thought probably they were turning a blind eye rather than actually encouraging terrorism.
``I am going back completely convinced that the Pakistani authorities are actively engaged in supporting cross-border terrorism in a deeply, profound way,`` Peter Luff, assistant chief of the Conservative Party in the House of Commons, told IANS in an interview here.
Luff, who is leading a 10-member delegation of the Conservative Parliamentary Friends of India (CPFI) on a visit to this country, spent two days in Jammu and Kashmir over the weekend. The CPFI was set up to create a bridge of understanding about India in British Parliament, he said.
``The case is made. We are absolutely convinced Pakistan is up to its neck in supporting terrorism in Jammu and Kashmir,`` Luff, widely seen as a potential leader of the Conservative Party, said.
He said what convinced him and his team about Pakistan`s active complicity in cross-border terrorism was the briefing given to them by the army authorities in Jammu and Kashmir.
``I am absolutely convinced by the case. We have seen the captured documents, intercepts of telecommunications,`` he added.
He said he was ``very grateful`` to Pakistan for its support in fighting terrorism in Afghanistan. ``I say thank you but it must understand that terrorism is a global phenomenon wherever it occurs.
``And just because of the problem over Kashmir between India and Pakistan it (Islamabad) cannot selectively fight terrorism when it suits them,`` he added.
``I am going to talk to the Pakistani high commissioner when I go to London (and ask), what is your perspective and why is it happening,`` Luff said.
He said as a ``complex and a fragile`` country he understood the political realities of Pakistan. ``But it is no excuse to actively support terrorism.``
At the same time, Luff said India was not totally blame-free. ``I am also convinced that India does not have an absolutely fair record in Jammu and Kashmir`` and it had to address that.
``There is a certain insensitivity on the part of the security forces in dealing with the civilians. But the big difference is that it is not the policy of the Indian government.
``That happens perhaps the young men in the security forces are not trained well, or perhaps they just get carried away by the situations. It is more a matter of training and discipline,`` he added.
He said he was ``delighted`` with his visit. ``This is the one of the most interesting foreign trips I have made as a parliamentarian. I have learned more, seen more and I have been treated better than I have ever been treated before.``
He described the Indian economy as ``one of the most important economies of the world now.``
``I knew this but it has been dramatically brought home to me during the visit. It has become quite clear that Britain must engage in every possible level with the Indian economy,`` he added.
``It is clear that India and China are the most important emerging economies. Perhaps there is a little more fascination with China than India at the moment (in Britain) and it is important to sharpen people`s perception about India where Britain can take advantage of the development in India and India of what is taking place in Britain,`` he added.
#393 Posted by dost_mittar on October 1, 2003 7:19:42 am
A British tory parliamentarian blames both sides http://sulekha.com/redirectnh.asp?cid=318273] for the situation in Kashmir after visiting the valley. The tone is somewhat pro-indian as he was speaking in New Delhi. Excerpts:
``I came here a little sceptical of the claim that Pakistan is actively supporting cross-border infiltration, terrorism in Jammu and Kashmir. I thought probably they were turning a blind eye rather than actually encouraging terrorism.``
``I am going back completely convinced that the Pakistani authorities are actively engaged in supporting cross-border terrorism in a deeply, profound way,`` Peter Luff, assistant chief of the Conservative Party in the House of Commons, told IANS in an interview here.``
``The case is made. We are absolutely convinced Pakistan is up to its neck in supporting terrorism in Jammu and Kashmir,`` Luff, widely seen as a potential leader of the Conservative Party, said.``
``At the same time, Luff said India was not totally blame-free. ``I am also convinced that India does not have an absolutely fair record in Jammu and Kashmir`` and it had to address that.
``There is a certain insensitivity on the part of the security forces in dealing with the civilians. But the big difference is that it is not the policy of the Indian government.
``That happens perhaps the young men in the security forces are not trained well, or perhaps they just get carried away by the situations. It is more a matter of training and discipline,`` he added.``
``I came here a little sceptical of the claim that Pakistan is actively supporting cross-border infiltration, terrorism in Jammu and Kashmir. I thought probably they were turning a blind eye rather than actually encouraging terrorism.``
``I am going back completely convinced that the Pakistani authorities are actively engaged in supporting cross-border terrorism in a deeply, profound way,`` Peter Luff, assistant chief of the Conservative Party in the House of Commons, told IANS in an interview here.``
``The case is made. We are absolutely convinced Pakistan is up to its neck in supporting terrorism in Jammu and Kashmir,`` Luff, widely seen as a potential leader of the Conservative Party, said.``
``At the same time, Luff said India was not totally blame-free. ``I am also convinced that India does not have an absolutely fair record in Jammu and Kashmir`` and it had to address that.
``There is a certain insensitivity on the part of the security forces in dealing with the civilians. But the big difference is that it is not the policy of the Indian government.
``That happens perhaps the young men in the security forces are not trained well, or perhaps they just get carried away by the situations. It is more a matter of training and discipline,`` he added.``
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