Kashmir from the Left
Ras Siddiqui September 27, 2003
#117 Posted by satish on October 5, 2003 11:23:55 pm
Sridhar
Thanks. I have been interacting on chowk, very infrequently, for about 4-5 years now. I must say, however, that I have been absent recently.
As far as the MORI polls are concerned, the absence of the option for independence was as per the legal situation now, as joining either India of Pakistan are the only viable options for Kashmiris. But in any case, if anti-India feelings were as strong as our friends here sugest, nothing was stopping them for going whole hog and proclaim either `Pakistan` or `No opinion/neither` in answer to that question. And as you see, 61% clearly chose India. And 6% chose Pakistan.
A more important point I wanted to make was re: the role of Pakistan in the problem. Here the opinions are clearer - only 15% think it has been good! So much for the `moral` supporters from across the border!
And how about 88% thinking that stopping jehadis from across the border will be a good step for J&K?
Thanks. I have been interacting on chowk, very infrequently, for about 4-5 years now. I must say, however, that I have been absent recently.
As far as the MORI polls are concerned, the absence of the option for independence was as per the legal situation now, as joining either India of Pakistan are the only viable options for Kashmiris. But in any case, if anti-India feelings were as strong as our friends here sugest, nothing was stopping them for going whole hog and proclaim either `Pakistan` or `No opinion/neither` in answer to that question. And as you see, 61% clearly chose India. And 6% chose Pakistan.
A more important point I wanted to make was re: the role of Pakistan in the problem. Here the opinions are clearer - only 15% think it has been good! So much for the `moral` supporters from across the border!
And how about 88% thinking that stopping jehadis from across the border will be a good step for J&K?
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#116 Posted by rsridhar on October 4, 2003 2:50:57 pm
re:#112 by satish
Welcome to Chowk. This is perhaps the first time i am interacting with you.
Thanks for clarifying the meaning of Sindhu. And i thought i knew Sanskrit!
MORI report has been discussed in the Chowk forum in the past. If i remember correctly, one of the drawbacks is that the Kashmiris in that Opinion Poll were not given the choice of ``independence``. Hence you find a good 33% saying they could not decide. Still, a good poll. Of course, nothing short of referendum will satisfy Pakis in chowk.
Sridhar
Welcome to Chowk. This is perhaps the first time i am interacting with you.
Thanks for clarifying the meaning of Sindhu. And i thought i knew Sanskrit!
MORI report has been discussed in the Chowk forum in the past. If i remember correctly, one of the drawbacks is that the Kashmiris in that Opinion Poll were not given the choice of ``independence``. Hence you find a good 33% saying they could not decide. Still, a good poll. Of course, nothing short of referendum will satisfy Pakis in chowk.
Sridhar
#115 Posted by rsridhar on October 4, 2003 2:50:57 pm
re:#95 by rsaxena
I recently attended an Investment Conference by American Express that my financial adviser had invited me to. While talking on International investments, the speaker spoke of new emerging markets, well above the traditonal markets. Guess which ones were on the top 2: China and India.
Sridhar
I recently attended an Investment Conference by American Express that my financial adviser had invited me to. While talking on International investments, the speaker spoke of new emerging markets, well above the traditonal markets. Guess which ones were on the top 2: China and India.
Sridhar
#114 Posted by rsridhar on October 4, 2003 2:50:56 pm
re: infiltration across LOC
For detractors like Ahmedzai who claim there is no infiltration, here is a picture from Yahoo:
http://in.news.yahoo.com/031004/137/286vh.html
Sometimes, a picture is worth a thousand words.
Sridhar
For detractors like Ahmedzai who claim there is no infiltration, here is a picture from Yahoo:
http://in.news.yahoo.com/031004/137/286vh.html
Sometimes, a picture is worth a thousand words.
Sridhar
#113 Posted by pmishra2 on October 3, 2003 11:15:04 am
#112 satish
OK, OK, so I bunked Sanskrit class and couldn`t remember what Sindhu means. Actually, the class was taught so badly that it is a wonder that I remember anything at all.
Re: MORI poll and all that jazz. It doesn`t matter to these dudes. Actually nothing matters. Hindus are naturally oppressive and no one should be forced to live near them. end of story.
OK, OK, so I bunked Sanskrit class and couldn`t remember what Sindhu means. Actually, the class was taught so badly that it is a wonder that I remember anything at all.
Re: MORI poll and all that jazz. It doesn`t matter to these dudes. Actually nothing matters. Hindus are naturally oppressive and no one should be forced to live near them. end of story.
#112 Posted by satish on October 3, 2003 12:45:11 am
Re: Various posts about `Sindhu-whatever` issue -
While I dont blame Ahmadmadani for getting the wrong idea (which, maybe, was the intent of the namers afterall, :-) ), I am, however, really disappointed that none of the Indians on this board have pointed out that the actual meaning of `Sindhu` in Sanskrit is `Sea` and not the province of Sindh. The same name has been used for the river Indus also, and people have disagreements about which meaning came first: while some maintain that the river was named after sea for its size, some other maintain that the Indus was the largest body of water the people had seen when the word was coined, and it just got imposed on the sea once they came to know about it. In any case, both meanings of the term have been equally widespread throughout history, as anyone conversant with a little Sanskrit will know. It is a little odd that none of the Indian interacters here knew it, (unless they did and made a choice to not reveal it, in order to keep our friends from the land of Indus sizzling, in which case, I am sorry!) So, Madani Sahab, fikar not ke worry curry, all those names just mean `Sea-Warriors`, ``Sea-Braves` and what not. And I am content that in revealing this top secret information, I am not hurting the chances of Hindian navy in their hideous plans, as you are not going to believe me in any case!
As an aside, I wonder why there was no debate on my posting of the MORI Opinion Poll in J&K in 2002 on another board, as this poll reveals about what the people of `occupied` Kashmir `actually` think, something very dear to Pakistani hearts. I hope people are not going to claim that MORI is another organization in the pay of `horrible hindoos`. Here is the article and the link again, for your reference. Hope to see some discussion this time.
http://www.mori.com/polls/2002/kashmir.shtml
Kashmiris Reject War In Favour Of Democratic Means
MORI publishes results of major new survey
31 May 2002
The vast majority of Kashmiris oppose India and Pakistan going to war to find a permanent solution to the situation in Kashmir and believe the correct way to bring peace to the region is through democratic elections, ending violence, and economic development.
They also believe the unique cultural identity of the region should be preserved in any long-term solution, and there is virtually no support for the state of Jammu and Kashmir being divided on the basis of religion or ethnic group.
These are the main findings to emerge from a poll conducted by the independent market research company, MORI International, at the end of April (20-28 April 2002), just before the start of the recent escalation of conflict in the region.
Interviews were conducted in the Jammu and the surrounding rural areas, Srinagar and its surrounding rural areas and in Leh. Interviewers were set quotas for sex and religion (assessed by the interviewer) to match the population of each region.
Although the vast majority in Jammu and Leh believe the correct way to bring about peace is though democratic elections, opinions are more evenly divided in and around Srinagar, with a bare majority (52%) agreeing with this view.
Nevertheless, the vast majority - 76% - of those in the Srinagar region believe India and Pakistan should not go to war to bring about a permanent solution.
There is a general consensus across the regions that it is not possible to hold democratic elections while violence continues - 65% agree while 34% disagree.
A very clear majority of the population - 65% - believes the presence of foreign militants in Jammu and Kashmir is damaging to the Kashmir cause, and most of the rest take the view that it is neither damaging nor helpful.
Overall, two thirds of people in Jammu and Kashmir take the view that Pakistan`s involvement in the region for the last ten years has been bad. Only 15% believe it has been good for the region, while 18% say it has made no real difference.
On the issue of citizenship, overall, 61% said they felt they would be better off politically and economically as an Indian citizen and only 6% as a Pakistani citizen, but 33% said they did not know.
A suggestion that most people do not feel that the current political parties have the solution to the problems in Kashmir is reflected in the fact that around half, or more, of the population in each region agree with the view that `a new political party is needed to bring about a permanent solution in Kashmir`.
People in all regions are in general agreement that `the unique cultural identity of Jammu and Kashmir - Kashmiryat - should be preserved in any long-term solution`. Overall, 81% agree, including 76% in Srinagar and 81% in Jammu.
There is also widespread consensus on the types of proposals which will help to bring about peace in Jammu and Kashmir. More than 85% of the population, including at least 70% in each region, think the following will help to bring about peace:
Economic development of the region to provide more job opportunities and reduction of poverty - 93%
The holding of free and fair elections to elect the people`s representatives - 86%
Direct consultation between the Indian government and the people of Kashmir - 87%
An end to militant violence in the region - 86%
Stopping the infiltration of militants across the Line of Control - 88%
The critical role people see for economic development in helping to solve the problems is further underlined by the 74% who think that `people from outside of Kashmir being encourage to invest in the area to help rebuild Kashmir`s economy and tourist industry` will help to bring peace to the state.
There is also a widespread view, held by 80%, that allowing displaced Kashmiri Pandits to return to their homes in safety will help to bring about peace.
Views are mixed on the likely impact of `People in Jammu and Kashmir having the freedom to travel in both directions across the Line of Control`. Those in and around Srinagar and Leh generally feel this would help to bring peace while those in Jammu take the opposite view.
An overwhelming 92% oppose the state of Kashmir being divided on the basis of religion or ethnicity. There is also overwhelming support - 91% - for a forum in which Kashmiris from both sides of the Line of Control can discuss common interests.
A clear majority - 70% - also support the borders between Pakistani-controlled Kashmir and Indian Kashmir being opened for much more trade and cultural exchange. However, while the views in Srinagar and Leh were very decisive - over 90% support - those in Jammu were much more balanced - 47% support, 53% oppose.
Views are also split on the issue of granting more autonomy to Kashmir. Overall 55% support `India and Pakistan granting as much autonomy as they can to both sides of Kashmir to govern their own affairs. However, while the majority in Srinagar and Leh support this, the majority in Jammu oppose this policy.
There are also mixed views about the role and impact of the Indian security forces. In Srinagar and Leh, at least nine out of ten believe that security forces scaling down their operations in Jammu and Kashmir would help to bring peace, whereas in Jammu opinions are reversed.
There are clearly different perceptions of the behaviour of the Indian security forces. Nobody interviewed in Leh or Jammu believes that human rights violations by Indian security forces in Jammu and Kashmir are widespread, whereas in Srinagar 64% of the population think they are widespread.
Perceptions are different with respect to human rights violations by militant groups in Jammu and Kashmir. 96% of those in Jammu believe such violations are widespread whereas only 2% of those in Srinagar believe they are widespread (although 33% believe they are `occasional`).
Technical details
Fieldwork was carried out by FACTS Worldwide, MORI`s affiliate company in India, between 20 - 28 April 2002.
In total, 850 interviews were completed, face-to-face, with adults aged 16+ across 55 localities within Jammu and Kashmir. This comprised 22 localities in Jammu City, 20 in Srinagar City and 6 in Leh (urban areas), as well as in 3 villages around Jammu and 4 villages around Srinagar (rural areas).
Quotas were set by gender, religion (assessed by observation) and locality, according to the known population profile of the region.
A random selection procedure was used to select individual respondents.
Sample Profile
The following table details the profile of respondents by locality and religion:
Locality Total i`views Breakdown by religion (observed)
Muslim Hindu Sikh Buddhist Christian
Srinagar 300 292 8 - - -
97% 3% - - -
Villages nr Srinagar 60 58 2 - - -
97% 3% - - -
Jammu 344 103 229 7 1 4
30% 67% 2% *% 1%
Villages nr Jammu 71 21 50 - - -
30% 70% - - -
Leh 75 35 4 - 36 -
47% 5% - 48% -
Total 850 509 293 7 37 4
60% 34% 1% 4% *%
Quotas were based on 1981 Census data (population in 1,000s):
Total pop. Muslim Hindu Sikh Buddhist Christian
Kashmir Valley
(Srinigar & surrounding areas) 3,102 2,977 125 - 0.2 -
96% 4% - *% -
Jammu region 2,717 805 1,803 100 1 8
30% 66% 4% *% *%
Ladakh
(incl. Leh) 134 62 4 - 68 -
46% 3% - 51% -
Total 65% 32% 2% 1% *%
Statistical Reliability
The sampling tolerances that apply to the percentage results in this report are given below. This table shows the possible variation that might be anticipated because a sample, rather than the entire population, was interviewed. As indicated, sampling tolerances vary with the size of the sample and the size of percentage results. The confidence intervals take no account of design effects and, of course, there were certain areas in each region we did not conduct interviews.
Approximate sampling tolerances applicable to percentages at or near these levels (at the 95% confidence level)
Base: 10% or 90% 30% or 70% 50%
850 (total) 2 3 3
415 (Jammu region) 3 4 5
360 (Srinagar region) 3 5 5
75 (Leh) 7 10 11
Source: MORI
For example, for a question where 50% of the people in a sample of 850 respond with a particular answer, the chances are 95 in 100 that this result would not vary more than 3 percentage points, plus or minus, from the result that would have been obtained from a census of the entire population using the same procedures. Tolerances are also involved in the comparison of results between different elements of the sample. A difference, in other words, must be of at least a certain size to be statistically significant. The following table is a guide to the sampling tolerances applicable to comparisons.
Differences required for significance at the 95% confidence level at or near these percentages
Base: 10% or 90% 30% or 70% 50%
432 (Men) and 418 (Women) 4 6 7
415 (Jammu region) and 360 (Srinagar region) 4 7 7
415 (Jammu region) and 75 (Leh) 7 11 12
360 (Srinagar region) and 75 (Leh) 8 12 13
Source: MORI
While I dont blame Ahmadmadani for getting the wrong idea (which, maybe, was the intent of the namers afterall, :-) ), I am, however, really disappointed that none of the Indians on this board have pointed out that the actual meaning of `Sindhu` in Sanskrit is `Sea` and not the province of Sindh. The same name has been used for the river Indus also, and people have disagreements about which meaning came first: while some maintain that the river was named after sea for its size, some other maintain that the Indus was the largest body of water the people had seen when the word was coined, and it just got imposed on the sea once they came to know about it. In any case, both meanings of the term have been equally widespread throughout history, as anyone conversant with a little Sanskrit will know. It is a little odd that none of the Indian interacters here knew it, (unless they did and made a choice to not reveal it, in order to keep our friends from the land of Indus sizzling, in which case, I am sorry!) So, Madani Sahab, fikar not ke worry curry, all those names just mean `Sea-Warriors`, ``Sea-Braves` and what not. And I am content that in revealing this top secret information, I am not hurting the chances of Hindian navy in their hideous plans, as you are not going to believe me in any case!
As an aside, I wonder why there was no debate on my posting of the MORI Opinion Poll in J&K in 2002 on another board, as this poll reveals about what the people of `occupied` Kashmir `actually` think, something very dear to Pakistani hearts. I hope people are not going to claim that MORI is another organization in the pay of `horrible hindoos`. Here is the article and the link again, for your reference. Hope to see some discussion this time.
http://www.mori.com/polls/2002/kashmir.shtml
Kashmiris Reject War In Favour Of Democratic Means
MORI publishes results of major new survey
31 May 2002
The vast majority of Kashmiris oppose India and Pakistan going to war to find a permanent solution to the situation in Kashmir and believe the correct way to bring peace to the region is through democratic elections, ending violence, and economic development.
They also believe the unique cultural identity of the region should be preserved in any long-term solution, and there is virtually no support for the state of Jammu and Kashmir being divided on the basis of religion or ethnic group.
These are the main findings to emerge from a poll conducted by the independent market research company, MORI International, at the end of April (20-28 April 2002), just before the start of the recent escalation of conflict in the region.
Interviews were conducted in the Jammu and the surrounding rural areas, Srinagar and its surrounding rural areas and in Leh. Interviewers were set quotas for sex and religion (assessed by the interviewer) to match the population of each region.
Although the vast majority in Jammu and Leh believe the correct way to bring about peace is though democratic elections, opinions are more evenly divided in and around Srinagar, with a bare majority (52%) agreeing with this view.
Nevertheless, the vast majority - 76% - of those in the Srinagar region believe India and Pakistan should not go to war to bring about a permanent solution.
There is a general consensus across the regions that it is not possible to hold democratic elections while violence continues - 65% agree while 34% disagree.
A very clear majority of the population - 65% - believes the presence of foreign militants in Jammu and Kashmir is damaging to the Kashmir cause, and most of the rest take the view that it is neither damaging nor helpful.
Overall, two thirds of people in Jammu and Kashmir take the view that Pakistan`s involvement in the region for the last ten years has been bad. Only 15% believe it has been good for the region, while 18% say it has made no real difference.
On the issue of citizenship, overall, 61% said they felt they would be better off politically and economically as an Indian citizen and only 6% as a Pakistani citizen, but 33% said they did not know.
A suggestion that most people do not feel that the current political parties have the solution to the problems in Kashmir is reflected in the fact that around half, or more, of the population in each region agree with the view that `a new political party is needed to bring about a permanent solution in Kashmir`.
People in all regions are in general agreement that `the unique cultural identity of Jammu and Kashmir - Kashmiryat - should be preserved in any long-term solution`. Overall, 81% agree, including 76% in Srinagar and 81% in Jammu.
There is also widespread consensus on the types of proposals which will help to bring about peace in Jammu and Kashmir. More than 85% of the population, including at least 70% in each region, think the following will help to bring about peace:
Economic development of the region to provide more job opportunities and reduction of poverty - 93%
The holding of free and fair elections to elect the people`s representatives - 86%
Direct consultation between the Indian government and the people of Kashmir - 87%
An end to militant violence in the region - 86%
Stopping the infiltration of militants across the Line of Control - 88%
The critical role people see for economic development in helping to solve the problems is further underlined by the 74% who think that `people from outside of Kashmir being encourage to invest in the area to help rebuild Kashmir`s economy and tourist industry` will help to bring peace to the state.
There is also a widespread view, held by 80%, that allowing displaced Kashmiri Pandits to return to their homes in safety will help to bring about peace.
Views are mixed on the likely impact of `People in Jammu and Kashmir having the freedom to travel in both directions across the Line of Control`. Those in and around Srinagar and Leh generally feel this would help to bring peace while those in Jammu take the opposite view.
An overwhelming 92% oppose the state of Kashmir being divided on the basis of religion or ethnicity. There is also overwhelming support - 91% - for a forum in which Kashmiris from both sides of the Line of Control can discuss common interests.
A clear majority - 70% - also support the borders between Pakistani-controlled Kashmir and Indian Kashmir being opened for much more trade and cultural exchange. However, while the views in Srinagar and Leh were very decisive - over 90% support - those in Jammu were much more balanced - 47% support, 53% oppose.
Views are also split on the issue of granting more autonomy to Kashmir. Overall 55% support `India and Pakistan granting as much autonomy as they can to both sides of Kashmir to govern their own affairs. However, while the majority in Srinagar and Leh support this, the majority in Jammu oppose this policy.
There are also mixed views about the role and impact of the Indian security forces. In Srinagar and Leh, at least nine out of ten believe that security forces scaling down their operations in Jammu and Kashmir would help to bring peace, whereas in Jammu opinions are reversed.
There are clearly different perceptions of the behaviour of the Indian security forces. Nobody interviewed in Leh or Jammu believes that human rights violations by Indian security forces in Jammu and Kashmir are widespread, whereas in Srinagar 64% of the population think they are widespread.
Perceptions are different with respect to human rights violations by militant groups in Jammu and Kashmir. 96% of those in Jammu believe such violations are widespread whereas only 2% of those in Srinagar believe they are widespread (although 33% believe they are `occasional`).
Technical details
Fieldwork was carried out by FACTS Worldwide, MORI`s affiliate company in India, between 20 - 28 April 2002.
In total, 850 interviews were completed, face-to-face, with adults aged 16+ across 55 localities within Jammu and Kashmir. This comprised 22 localities in Jammu City, 20 in Srinagar City and 6 in Leh (urban areas), as well as in 3 villages around Jammu and 4 villages around Srinagar (rural areas).
Quotas were set by gender, religion (assessed by observation) and locality, according to the known population profile of the region.
A random selection procedure was used to select individual respondents.
Sample Profile
The following table details the profile of respondents by locality and religion:
Locality Total i`views Breakdown by religion (observed)
Muslim Hindu Sikh Buddhist Christian
Srinagar 300 292 8 - - -
97% 3% - - -
Villages nr Srinagar 60 58 2 - - -
97% 3% - - -
Jammu 344 103 229 7 1 4
30% 67% 2% *% 1%
Villages nr Jammu 71 21 50 - - -
30% 70% - - -
Leh 75 35 4 - 36 -
47% 5% - 48% -
Total 850 509 293 7 37 4
60% 34% 1% 4% *%
Quotas were based on 1981 Census data (population in 1,000s):
Total pop. Muslim Hindu Sikh Buddhist Christian
Kashmir Valley
(Srinigar & surrounding areas) 3,102 2,977 125 - 0.2 -
96% 4% - *% -
Jammu region 2,717 805 1,803 100 1 8
30% 66% 4% *% *%
Ladakh
(incl. Leh) 134 62 4 - 68 -
46% 3% - 51% -
Total 65% 32% 2% 1% *%
Statistical Reliability
The sampling tolerances that apply to the percentage results in this report are given below. This table shows the possible variation that might be anticipated because a sample, rather than the entire population, was interviewed. As indicated, sampling tolerances vary with the size of the sample and the size of percentage results. The confidence intervals take no account of design effects and, of course, there were certain areas in each region we did not conduct interviews.
Approximate sampling tolerances applicable to percentages at or near these levels (at the 95% confidence level)
Base: 10% or 90% 30% or 70% 50%
850 (total) 2 3 3
415 (Jammu region) 3 4 5
360 (Srinagar region) 3 5 5
75 (Leh) 7 10 11
Source: MORI
For example, for a question where 50% of the people in a sample of 850 respond with a particular answer, the chances are 95 in 100 that this result would not vary more than 3 percentage points, plus or minus, from the result that would have been obtained from a census of the entire population using the same procedures. Tolerances are also involved in the comparison of results between different elements of the sample. A difference, in other words, must be of at least a certain size to be statistically significant. The following table is a guide to the sampling tolerances applicable to comparisons.
Differences required for significance at the 95% confidence level at or near these percentages
Base: 10% or 90% 30% or 70% 50%
432 (Men) and 418 (Women) 4 6 7
415 (Jammu region) and 360 (Srinagar region) 4 7 7
415 (Jammu region) and 75 (Leh) 7 11 12
360 (Srinagar region) and 75 (Leh) 8 12 13
Source: MORI
#111 Posted by stuka on October 2, 2003 9:41:16 pm
Aleph Null:
``The second, Ahmadzai … the less said the better``
I admit to sharing a sense of frustration on occaision when talking to Ahmadzai. I do think that the said individual is incapable of nuanced thinking, hence my belief that he would be a steadfast friend or a straightforward enemy. :) He reminds me of Ayub Khan a bit, maybe the Pathanesque mentality is shared.
``The second, Ahmadzai … the less said the better``
I admit to sharing a sense of frustration on occaision when talking to Ahmadzai. I do think that the said individual is incapable of nuanced thinking, hence my belief that he would be a steadfast friend or a straightforward enemy. :) He reminds me of Ayub Khan a bit, maybe the Pathanesque mentality is shared.
#110 Posted by qusman1 on October 2, 2003 5:25:04 pm
arjun_m & co:
Why not attend an actual event such as the Kashmir Forum featured here?
If you`re in the bay area, check friendsofsouthasia.org for future events. There are similar organizations elsewhere. If you write to us for information, we`ll point you the right way.
Why not attend an actual event such as the Kashmir Forum featured here?
If you`re in the bay area, check friendsofsouthasia.org for future events. There are similar organizations elsewhere. If you write to us for information, we`ll point you the right way.
#109 Posted by Ralph on October 2, 2003 2:37:46 pm
Ahmadzai scaling Romarian heights, or Romair scaling Ahmadzai heights, or toddlers like HussShah scaling heights untouched by their elders, Zia Ul Haq of the beatific smile lives on in magnificent splendor.
Indians are again playing tricks upon Pakistani ``straightshooters`` like Ahmadzai. Prithvi was not named after PRC. It was a signal that India had decided to take over Pakistan, kill all Muslim men, rape all Muslim women (a seemingly essential component all Pakistani history and journalism when it comes to India or Kashmir).
Akash is also not named for the Sky. It is named after Kashmir. How could any Pakistani be so naive as not to notice that Indian perfidy?
Aaaa Kash: don`t you see the bania trying to hoodwink the wise and intelligent `straightshooter`` Pak Muslims like Ahmadzai. If BJP didnt want to kill all Kashmiris, it would have used a name like Jaaaa Kash. But presumabley Indians already call `straightshooters` like Ahmadzai, Romair, and HussShah jaack ashes.
Next they will name something after Vaya (wind). But that will not named for the wind. The banias will be saying - why you? `you` meaning Pakistan. Why? to question Pakistan`s right to exist. They will be planning to wipe Pakistan off the face of the earth! Isn`t advani worse that Hitler and Musharraf the peaceloving lamb?
How many more billions of dollars does the military want? Send many more.
:)
Indians are again playing tricks upon Pakistani ``straightshooters`` like Ahmadzai. Prithvi was not named after PRC. It was a signal that India had decided to take over Pakistan, kill all Muslim men, rape all Muslim women (a seemingly essential component all Pakistani history and journalism when it comes to India or Kashmir).
Akash is also not named for the Sky. It is named after Kashmir. How could any Pakistani be so naive as not to notice that Indian perfidy?
Aaaa Kash: don`t you see the bania trying to hoodwink the wise and intelligent `straightshooter`` Pak Muslims like Ahmadzai. If BJP didnt want to kill all Kashmiris, it would have used a name like Jaaaa Kash. But presumabley Indians already call `straightshooters` like Ahmadzai, Romair, and HussShah jaack ashes.
Next they will name something after Vaya (wind). But that will not named for the wind. The banias will be saying - why you? `you` meaning Pakistan. Why? to question Pakistan`s right to exist. They will be planning to wipe Pakistan off the face of the earth! Isn`t advani worse that Hitler and Musharraf the peaceloving lamb?
How many more billions of dollars does the military want? Send many more.
:)
#108 Posted by cosmic_citizen on October 2, 2003 11:50:18 am
Two issues
#107 alphennull.. thanks for pointing out my mix up.. I will be more careful....
HELLO STAFF
My interact 107.. had more in it.. I talked about many other things.... was it sensored???... was I too emotional.. or did the network error chop it off??? Please explain atleast by a private mail!
#107 alphennull.. thanks for pointing out my mix up.. I will be more careful....
HELLO STAFF
My interact 107.. had more in it.. I talked about many other things.... was it sensored???... was I too emotional.. or did the network error chop it off??? Please explain atleast by a private mail!
#107 Posted by cosmic_citizen on October 2, 2003 11:23:23 am
Jihad
Dont agree with me?(#100)
We in India tarnish the Image of Jihad by calling them Terrorists!!!
BBC on University of Jihad
Some guy said
``I will dedicate my whole life for jihad. I will kill enemies of Islam ``
,,,,
Dont agree with me?(#100)
We in India tarnish the Image of Jihad by calling them Terrorists!!!
BBC on University of Jihad
Some guy said
``I will dedicate my whole life for jihad. I will kill enemies of Islam ``
,,,,
#106 Posted by AlephNull on October 2, 2003 11:21:02 am
#101 pmishra
{{Wow, you are absolutely right and so is ahmadzai.}}
#105 cosmic_citizen
At the expense of repeating myself – Ahmedmadani (of the Sindhu conspiracy theory) and Ahmedzai are two different chowkies. The first is one of the most colourful personas on Chowk – his trademarks include a farcical colour complex, rants against the young lafangas who may ensnare his three beautiful daughters, keen amateur interest in military and strategic issues …. To get a snapshot of the man’s style read his poem welcoming 2003: Look Ahead in Terror #5 (Jan 1st 2003). The second, Ahmadzai … the less said the better.
{{Wow, you are absolutely right and so is ahmadzai.}}
#105 cosmic_citizen
At the expense of repeating myself – Ahmedmadani (of the Sindhu conspiracy theory) and Ahmedzai are two different chowkies. The first is one of the most colourful personas on Chowk – his trademarks include a farcical colour complex, rants against the young lafangas who may ensnare his three beautiful daughters, keen amateur interest in military and strategic issues …. To get a snapshot of the man’s style read his poem welcoming 2003: Look Ahead in Terror #5 (Jan 1st 2003). The second, Ahmadzai … the less said the better.
#105 Posted by cosmic_citizen on October 2, 2003 9:57:02 am
reg # 104
AHMADZAI
dont forget to read 104
and do use all the great ideas impressions has given you...
Write a book.. Hindus the Conspirators against Pakistan or something like that (I am sure you can select a better title... ;-)
It will be a best-seller in Pakistan if I am not wrong!
Your Sindhu theory was the best conspiracy theory I have seen.
Dont forget to include the following...
RAW is behind the toppling of Nawaz govt..
Binladen is hiding in Delhi...
Twin Tower conspiracy was hatched in India....
AHMADZAI
dont forget to read 104
and do use all the great ideas impressions has given you...
Write a book.. Hindus the Conspirators against Pakistan or something like that (I am sure you can select a better title... ;-)
It will be a best-seller in Pakistan if I am not wrong!
Your Sindhu theory was the best conspiracy theory I have seen.
Dont forget to include the following...
RAW is behind the toppling of Nawaz govt..
Binladen is hiding in Delhi...
Twin Tower conspiracy was hatched in India....
#104 Posted by impressions on October 2, 2003 9:17:29 am
About Sindhu:
The word Sindhu is not the same as the word Sindhi!
Sindhu is literally the generic Sanskrit term for a river. It was the native name of the river Indus but since the Arabs and the Persians mispronounced it as Hindu the name stuck. The word Hindu is actually coined by Muslims! There is no instance of the word Hindu in the Vedas or other ancient religious texts.
So when a class of Submarines in India is named Sindhu-this and Sindhu-that they are invoking the Indus Valley and not the Pakistani Sindhi minority!
But if your whole mission in life is to seek out conspiracy theories than you can believe that Sindhu stands for Sindhi and the nefarious Indians huddled together in a dark room and came up with this name to break up Pakistan. You can also believe that Prithvi is named after Prithviraj Chauhan and not after the word Prithvi which literally means ‘earth’ (it’s the surface to surface missile) and you can ignore that Prithvi’s surface to air counterpart is called Akash which literally means ‘sky’.
I used to think that potato farmers of Idaho may be the demographic most susceptible to conspiracy theories but after having interacted with a lot of Pakistanis it think I might have to re-think.
Indian Army kills Hindu & Sikh pilgrims to make Pakistan look bad. Sure!
The CIA and Mossad brought down the twin towers. Of course!
Omar Sheikh is a RAW agent. Absolutely!
Prithvi is named after Prithviraj Chauhan. Obviously!
CIA killed Zia. Doubtless!
Indians staged the attack on their own Parliament. For sure!
Sindhu really means Sindhi and the Indians are naming Submarines to break up Pakistan. No Brainer! Literally!!
The word Sindhu is not the same as the word Sindhi!
Sindhu is literally the generic Sanskrit term for a river. It was the native name of the river Indus but since the Arabs and the Persians mispronounced it as Hindu the name stuck. The word Hindu is actually coined by Muslims! There is no instance of the word Hindu in the Vedas or other ancient religious texts.
So when a class of Submarines in India is named Sindhu-this and Sindhu-that they are invoking the Indus Valley and not the Pakistani Sindhi minority!
But if your whole mission in life is to seek out conspiracy theories than you can believe that Sindhu stands for Sindhi and the nefarious Indians huddled together in a dark room and came up with this name to break up Pakistan. You can also believe that Prithvi is named after Prithviraj Chauhan and not after the word Prithvi which literally means ‘earth’ (it’s the surface to surface missile) and you can ignore that Prithvi’s surface to air counterpart is called Akash which literally means ‘sky’.
I used to think that potato farmers of Idaho may be the demographic most susceptible to conspiracy theories but after having interacted with a lot of Pakistanis it think I might have to re-think.
Indian Army kills Hindu & Sikh pilgrims to make Pakistan look bad. Sure!
The CIA and Mossad brought down the twin towers. Of course!
Omar Sheikh is a RAW agent. Absolutely!
Prithvi is named after Prithviraj Chauhan. Obviously!
CIA killed Zia. Doubtless!
Indians staged the attack on their own Parliament. For sure!
Sindhu really means Sindhi and the Indians are naming Submarines to break up Pakistan. No Brainer! Literally!!
#103 Posted by cosmic_citizen on October 2, 2003 9:04:45 am
ATTN AHMADZAI bhai...
India Exporting its Unemployment! Have you ever heard such words as Economics, Capitalism, Profitablity, Outsourcing, and the phrases.... (any way what is the point...)
Juth hi saheen ek minute ke liye man lo.. to kya phark padta hain tum ko? Kya paida hain?
Dusron ki tarrakki pe rone si nahin koyi phaida. Why dont you concentrate on your economy instead of Jihad, Afghanistan, Taleban, Osama, J&K, Kargil, ....
Every sane person would agree that Muslim Fundamentalists have over used the word Jihad so much that the day is nor far when popular dictionary would read something like
Jihad
Religious Justification given by Islamic Fundamentalists for acts of violence and terrorism
.
.
some XXX years ago, the word was used in the contexts .... (you know what I mean! Fill it up...)
Well wake up.. your Jihadis are flying planes into buildings...
If you have reservations about the above read about the training notes given to the hijackers etc., you will find it. should you look for it...
The list of good deeds your Jihadis are doing for man kind is long.....[ now dont comit the blunder of demanding evidence you will be INUNDATED]
Luv,
Cosmic Citzen
India Exporting its Unemployment! Have you ever heard such words as Economics, Capitalism, Profitablity, Outsourcing, and the phrases.... (any way what is the point...)
Juth hi saheen ek minute ke liye man lo.. to kya phark padta hain tum ko? Kya paida hain?
Dusron ki tarrakki pe rone si nahin koyi phaida. Why dont you concentrate on your economy instead of Jihad, Afghanistan, Taleban, Osama, J&K, Kargil, ....
Every sane person would agree that Muslim Fundamentalists have over used the word Jihad so much that the day is nor far when popular dictionary would read something like
Jihad
Religious Justification given by Islamic Fundamentalists for acts of violence and terrorism
.
.
some XXX years ago, the word was used in the contexts .... (you know what I mean! Fill it up...)
Well wake up.. your Jihadis are flying planes into buildings...
If you have reservations about the above read about the training notes given to the hijackers etc., you will find it. should you look for it...
The list of good deeds your Jihadis are doing for man kind is long.....[ now dont comit the blunder of demanding evidence you will be INUNDATED]
Luv,
Cosmic Citzen
#102 Posted by pmishra2 on October 2, 2003 9:04:45 am
#71 AlephNull
[quote]
Actually Ahmed Madani is right about the submarine names, at least. The Indian Navy has 10 Sindhughosh class (Kilo Type 877 EKM) submarines, which are among its most modern. Their names are Sindhughosh, Sindhuvaj, Sindhuraj, Sindhuvir, Sindhukesari, ... Sindhurakshak, Sindhushastra.
[end-quote]
Wow, you are absolutely right and so is ahmadzai. Well, I will be dammed. Why are these called ``Sindhu``
will they be used to surround Karachi harbour :)-
[quote]
Actually Ahmed Madani is right about the submarine names, at least. The Indian Navy has 10 Sindhughosh class (Kilo Type 877 EKM) submarines, which are among its most modern. Their names are Sindhughosh, Sindhuvaj, Sindhuraj, Sindhuvir, Sindhukesari, ... Sindhurakshak, Sindhushastra.
[end-quote]
Wow, you are absolutely right and so is ahmadzai. Well, I will be dammed. Why are these called ``Sindhu``
will they be used to surround Karachi harbour :)-
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