Low Intensity Conflict

Tariq sb, your article on Low Intensity Conflict was quite informative and suggestive. It not only divulges the topic with examples but also suggests some remedies, that not many writers do. That article was quite relevant incase of Pakistan as Pakistan is the worst victim of it. You have always been inclined on showing “…. the Beautiful” part of the picture & this article was no exception…glorifying the army, or may be that bibliographical references from Army Generals casted shadow over for an otherwise a balanced article. We would like to hear more from you…

gujjubania #43

As opposed to being the third-class morons that many Indians in this site surely are.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

Mantolives at # 40:

First, it is my honor to have your views.

Second, there is a discussion going on between Tauheed saheb and myself on President Musharraf, his ``antics``, Mullas and OBL on another topic viz. ``Who is scared of Al Qaeda?``. I invite you there, since your participation will be of great benefit to all chowksters.

Ahmadzai,

The leadership of PPP is on record putting up the same line of argument, so I am not entirely sure what you are talking about... I suppose calling me an Indian or anti-Pakistan would help you ignore me and what I am saying... but the fact is that I am neither an Indian nor anti-Pakistan... Had I been an Indian I wouldn`t give a rat`s a$$ about Pakistan... had I been anti-Pakistan I could have said a lot of stuff which would make life uncomfortable for the Pakistanis on these boards. As for ``anti-Pakistan`` and ``anti-Islamic`` comments by Indians and my silence... I believe in the Pakistan of Jinnah`s conception ... Modern, democratic, progressive and secular. I believe in the Islam that Iqbal spoke of .... dynamic, tolerant, and outwardlooking. So far I have not seen anything from the Indians which criticizes the kind of Pakistan or Islam that I believe in... If god forbid Pakistan and India were to go to war... you won`t find me lacking in courage.. I will defend every last inch of this land, and I will not spare even my life in the defence of Pakistan God willing.

However that doesn`t mean that I will be party to everything wrong or right that my nation does... My nation is wrong on many accounts, and I don`t ascribe to any of that. Like Sigalph has written:

``Our country right or wrong: When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right``-Carl Schurz.


Here is a quotation from the general you seem to admire so much:

`The real threat is from within`

Even Musharraf can say a thing or two which makes sense... he is a decent guy... it is his position that is the problem... his machiavellian actions are dictated by necessity. Otherwise he will be overthrown and hanged. The truth is that the only institution capable of governing Pakistan, is that institution called the `parliament`... I believe in a sovereign, elected parliament ... that is the only way Pakistan will move forward socially, politically, and economically... Without democracy our future is bleak, and putting our money on the dark horses is a bad idea.

-YLH

Dear Aqil, could you please expain the purpose of posting this on the chowk and seeking feedback on it???
Who is the intended audience of this article? Is it going to be a part of some training manual or a Phd thesis? Are you associated with the Armed forces in any manner or not? Why the accolades to the army without putting substantial facts in it? Is it going to be read by the army officials? Is it a research topic to be funded by the army? Is it a part of some army officer`s lecture to the jehadi recruits?
Please clarify!

#30 by Mantolives on October 19, 2003 7:44am PT
Ditto Again!!!
To all the apologetics and admirers of Mush-
``You may have gained a lot by licking his army boots. I pray that you all get the boot you deserve when he goes.``

This article does seem to have a pro-military bias. Author is portraying the pakistani army as the sole guardian of pakistan against a world hell-bent on dividing pakistan. There is no doubt that pakistani army is one of the stable and relatively strong part of the country. However it is not fair to blame all internal problems of pakistan on foreign inteliigence agencies. There are deep divisions within the pakistani society and foreigners exploit it. Pakistan as a state was unable to reduce these intra-group differences and to make a more equitable society.

My writing is NOT pro establishment nor do I intend to glorify the Pakistan Army. The objective of this article is to define and explain the concept of LOW INTENSITY CONFLICT. Examples from Pakistani history or the present day situation have been taken to illustrate the various aspects of Low intensity Conflict and to suggest some ways and means of avoiding or containing this sort of conflict. My Apologies if I have ruffled some feathers or stepped on some toes specially to MANTOLIVES, Kaurasach,Arjun_m and all other CHOWKIES who have been offended. I have vreceived my share of abuse and condemnation but would like to clarify that I have personally lived through the happenings in Dacca during the terrible dark days of the 1971 war and I know that the role played by the Pakistani leadership and the army generals is nothing to brag about.
Tariq Aqil

Ahmadzai

This Manto is not a Pakistani. Ever since he came on Chowk he has been criticizing Pakistan. Earlier, he used to write as ylh. You won`t imagine how anti Pakistan he has always been. He has been been trained by the extremist Advanis and Vajpayees, and has missed the moderating influence of MMA.


Manto: Sorry, dude. Couldn`t help laughing at this....:) :)

re ahmadzai 32

``Hudood Ordinace is again a typical Indian way of cornering Pakistanis on this board.``

So, it was the wily Indians who imposed the Hudood Ordinances on Pakistan. I knew it. I knew it: Mard-e-Momin Ziaul Huq was a RAW agent.

``Reason is that I went through last 100 of your posts and found that in not a single one of them you supported Pakistanis``

Parrotting deeply held beliefs and innuendoes is not exactly patriotism. Real patriotism consists of having the courage to point out the deficiencies in what you love. The Prophet (SAW) emphasized it very well when he asked his follower to love his brother whether that brother was right or wrong: by encouraging him when he does good and criticizing him when he does evil.

It stands to scrutiny that if the generation before Manto`s exercised his true patriotism, instead of being impotent yes-men who were afraid to critique established idiosyncracies, the annals of Pakistani history would have been very different.

``Our country right or wrong: When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right``-Carl Schurz.

#12 by sigalph235

``Salahuddin Qader Chowdhury, the alleged war criminal, is a disgrace to say the least. But then, as a wag opined, he and OIC deserve each other amply. Better to have the crook away from Dhaka and living with the creeps in Jeddah. ``

---

http://www.muslimwakeup.com/mainarchive/000149.html#more

War Criminal to Head Islamic Conference? Bangladeshis Oppose Chowdhury
Nomination by Naeem Mohaiemen

---

http://www.muslimwakeup.com/mainarchive/000188.html#more

Should a Mafia Don Lead World Muslims? Salahuddin Quader Chowdhury`s
Nomination to Head the OIC By Dr. A. Momen

---

http://www.gulf-news.com/Articles/opinion.asp?ArticleID=98774

Gulf News
Dubai:Sunday, September 28, 2003

OIC does not need a tarnished politician from Bangladesh By Abdullah
Al Madani

---

http://thunderbay.indymedia.org/news/2003/07/7772.php

War Criminal, OIC, and the Government of Bangladesh
by Akram, Khundkar,Saleh, Tasneem, Ahmed et al

---

http://www.pressaction.com/pablog/archives/001076.html

October 15, 2003
Bangladeshis Oppose Chowdhury Nomination to OIC

The following statement was published online and signed by a number of
Bangladeshis. The Bangladeshi community is alarmed at their
government`s decision to nominate Mr. Salauddin Quader Chowdhury, a
controversial figure and alleged war criminal, for the position of the
Secretary General of the Organization of Islamic Conference (OIC). The
petition is available online at: www.petitiononline.com/saka.

---

STATEMENT ON BANGLADESH`S NOMINATION OF SALAUDDIN QUADER CHOWDHURY AS
SECRETARY GENERAL OF THE ISLAMIC CONFERENCE (OIC)

We, the concerned citizens of Bangladesh, express our grave anxiety
and deep shock over the nomination of Mr. Salauddin Quader Chowdhury
for the position of Secretary-General of the Organization of Islamic
Conference (OIC). We call upon the Government of the People`s Republic
of Bangladesh to immediately withdraw the regrettable nomination of
Mr. Chowdhury.

We believe that it is highly inappropriate and deeply irresponsible to
nominate Mr. Chowdhury to such a position for a variety of reasons.
Mr. Chowdhury is tainted with the widespread allegation that he had
supported the Pakistani occupation forces during Bangladesh`s War of
National Liberation in 1971. He was active then as an ignominious ally
of the invading Pakistani army, which committed war crimes, crimes
against humanity, and brutal terrorism against the people of
Bangladesh.

The Pakistani occupation army and its local collaborators targeted
countless unarmed civilians in violation of Geneva Conventions,
international law, and morality. They ruthlessly and indiscriminately
killed and tortured men, women, children, minorities, intellectuals,
students and teachers, writers and artists, artisans and peasants,
workers and vendors, and other Bengalis in the name of Islam,
presumably to uphold the territorial integrity of Pakistan. The
devastating actions of the Pakistan army while making Bangladesh
rubble and a big graveyard were sadistically inhumane, barbaric, and
genocidal and invited worldwide condemnation. Mr. Chowdhury, it has
been widely reputed, actively participated in, or had knowledge of,
gruesome activities in and around his native Chittagong district in
these wanton acts of murder, torture and in the illegal abductions and
arrests of freedom fighters and members of Bangladesh`s minority
community, and innocent civilians.

Given Mr. Chowdhury`s questionable antecedents, it is certainly
inappropriate, to say the least, for the Government of Bangladesh to
nominate him to the position of the Secretary-General of the OIC.

Mr.Chowdhury also has an ugly and unenviable reputation of misogyny,
calling people names, indulging in hate speech against minorities and
is reputed to have sinister connections with criminal and gangster
organizations.

At a time when Bangladesh`s people are trying to project a positive
image of our country, when we are trying to construct sustainable
institutions of democracy and foster a pluralist society based on the
principles of tolerance and freedom, when we are trying to accelerate
the pace of the nation`s economic growth and progress, and when we
want to attract more investment from foreign investors and put to more
efficient use our natural and human resources, the authorities should
not wreck the reputation of the country by nominating a person like
Mr. Chowdhury to a position that requires humane qualities of
compassion and generosity, compromise and concession towards noble
goals. It ruinously militates against the national interest of the
country besides being wildly contrary to all notions of morality. As
Bangladeshis we urge our compatriots and fellow citizens to join us in
condemning this nomination and in urging the government immediately to
rescind this national infamy.

While we do not like to embarrass the Government of Bangladesh, we
feel strongly about this matter. Thus we believe it is our duty also
to inform the citizens of member states of the OIC of Dhaka`s
malapropos nomination of Mr. Chowdhury an alleged war criminal and
terrorist to such an important and internationally eminent position in
which he will represent the member states in various international
forums. The OIC is critically situated in the affairs of the states
concerned and in international relations between the North and the
South in which it plays a constructive role via mediation towards
dispute resolution, via promoting trade and cooperation, and via
providing official development assistance among member states.

Given the current high-voltage propaganda against Muslim-majority and
Arab countries, against Muslims, other non-Western religions, and
various other ethnic communities living in the West, as evinced in the
recent events relating to Iraq, it would be a profound mistake, a morally
shameful move, and a strategic failure to have a person of Mr.
Chowdhury`s dubious reputation elevated to the position of the
Secretary-General of OIC.

We believe that the OIC ought to uphold and practice the principles of
Universal Declaration of Human Rights and its member states should
establish democratic institutions. It would be a disgrace if ill
advisedly the OIC took a retrograde step and elected a controversial
individual, such as Mr. Chowdhury, to its highest office. We cannot
permit this to happen. We will, thus, collectively speak out against
this nomination and intend in due course to publish this statement in
the leading journals of the member states of OIC and call upon all
civil and human rights organizations at home and abroad to resolutely
oppose Mr. Chowdhury`s nomination as Secretary General of the OIC.

---

Mantolives:

``Anyone who follows your line of argument closely can see the fundamental flaws in them... I quoted CNN as a mirror of the World opinion... Pakistan became a pariah after October 12th 1999``

Yet the same channels have praised President Musharraf and his Government. I don`t think that we should believe these media sources as they have their own hidden agenda. recently, I have visited Canada, UK, Spain, Morocco, Malaysia, Saudi Arabia, UAE, etc. and found their media to be appreciative of President Musharraf.

``Musharraf has built up the Mullahs in NWFP, he is behind sectarian terror... reason: He wants to prove that he is the rational and sane option in the whole of Pakistan... ``

This is a typical extremist Indian (followers of Advanis, Joshis, and Modis who are proven killers of innocent Christians, Hindus and Muslims) line of propaganda. In order to develop your own line, why don`t you talk to PML N and PPP stalwarts and ask them to say the same on media. Let us see if the people you are praising so much are able to support you on these statements.

Also, you must visit NWFP and Pakhtoon belt of Balochistan. You will find that pro-MMA support in these areas is a reality. Please come and talk to our people.

``His economic performance is nothing to write home about.... the reserves and business confidence in Karachi has other reasons... including the MQM`s inclusion in the Government of Sindh... the reserves ofcourse are because of the fall out of 9/11 and the end of Hundi... ``

I agree with you. That is why I never mentioned this. I only asked you about successful export performance, which cannot be attributed to any of your reasons.

``As for women`s empowerment ... and what have those 72 back benchers done in the assembly so far? We don`t believe in cosmetic makeovers... Women in Pakistan will be empowered when Hudood ordinance is abolished and when Women are returned to their original equal position in the eye of the law. ``

At least there are back benchers. What were your BB or Nawaz doing on this front? Hudood Ordinace is again a typical Indian way of cornering Pakistanis on this board. Let me ask you what were your BB and Nawaz doing on this matter?

Btw, I will apologize to you on one matter. before exchanging views with you, I took you for an Indian ( ignore this if you are an Indian). Reason is that I went through last 100 of your posts and found that in not a single one of them you supported Pakistanis. I also found you not challenging any anti-Pakistani or anti-Islamic post by any Indian. You were always criticising posters of Pakistani origin.

arjun_m#7
``Pakistan is the only economy in South Asia whose Gross National Income (GNI) and per capita income have shrunk in the last five years. Pakistan`s per capita income has declined from $480 in 1997 to $420 in 2001 and GNI from $62 billion to $59.6 billion. ``

These kind of statistics are often quite misleading. This ``decline`` in Pakistan`s GNI, I think, was almost entirely due to a dramatic decline in Pakistani rupee during those years (I believe it went down from less than Rs. 50 to almost Rs. 70 to a US dollar). This was not marked by any similar loss of the Pakistani rupee`s purchansing power. I suspect that there has been a similar increase in the dollar measured performance of the Pakistani economy, as the its rupee has appreciated significantly post 9/11.

Anyone who follows your line of argument closely can see the fundamental flaws in them... I quoted CNN as a mirror of the World opinion... Pakistan became a pariah after October 12th 1999... Musharraf has built up the Mullahs in NWFP, he is behind sectarian terror... reason: He wants to prove that he is the rational and sane option in the whole of Pakistan...

His economic performance is nothing to write home about.... the reserves and business confidence in Karachi has other reasons... including the MQM`s inclusion in the Government of Sindh... the reserves ofcourse are because of the fall out of 9/11 and the end of Hundi...

As for women`s empowerment ... and what have those 72 back benchers done in the assembly so far? We don`t believe in cosmetic makeovers... Women in Pakistan will be empowered when Hudood ordinance is abolished and when Women are returned to their original equal position in the eye of the law.

-YLH