Kalapini Komkali & Shewta Jhaveri

For those interested in learning a bit more about the Carnatic system, here is an URL:

http://www.carnatica.net/sang-main.htm

#52 by mumbaikar on December 3, 2003 7:57am PT

we have our share of such idiots in RSS Jamaat - they should be kicked in their ar5es and then ignored - they should not be paid any attention- no media coverage- these guys love the media coverage- they should be left to die in their hovels for ever.

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``Any way what it matters you suffer on earth go to heaven, you induldge on earth go to hell. Is not same after summing all up. I think only difference is who suffers on earth is just not sure about paradise after judgement day as nobody has come back to varify. ( why person indulging things promised in heaven should waste his fun time to come to earth to describe what good time he has.``

This sounds like being stingy all your life and saving money to buy life insurance.

#49 by hamid_81 on December 1, 2003 2:45pm PT

Thanks for the analyses. It was really sad to see the not too good state of affairs in Pakistan- Fortunately, in India State was a BIG patron of the classical musicians with its Radio Stations , sangeet saritas and the regular concerts thrice a day daily(I possess a lot of radio recordings of old masters- thanks to AIR)! Then there was the NAtional Programme of Music- although it was not very paying to the artists but it did provide the necessary exposure to the general public. This also helped in building up the reputation of the artists- I remember Nikhil Banergee (the MAESTRO) catching the attention of the people due to his Marwa National Programme.
Most of the muslim musicians were able to continue their lineage of second and third generations- but of late the trend is towards the more lucurative field of Commercial music- film, TV serials, fusion etc. Even the sons of Ustad Amjad Ali payed more attention to their Saregama TV Serial than their sarod solo career.
I would like to know whether PAkistan RAdio was/is broadcasting any of the soloists on a regular basis or not?

#47 by yogiraj on December 1, 2003 8:50am PT
Yogiraj ji!
Kishori Amonkar is a fabulous singer! She has dealt with Bhoop like no other. But still I would recommend Ustad Nazakat Ali and Ustad Salam Ali Khan`s Bhopali (which is the same as Bhoop). Awesome! Personally, I love the sound of Sarod! If I wouldn`t have been a Sitarist I would have been a Sarodiya. I don`t know if it is a better instrument or not because it does have it`s limitations. Like you cannot play ``krintan`` and some other typical Gayaki things on it. But still it has alot of scope. Ustad Ali Akbar Khan Sahib is a great sarodiya. I don`t personally like Ravi Shankar ji. But AAK is a great musician. His gharana and his style are very typical and different from all the rest of the sarodiyas. He always used to play better than Ravi ji, in recording or in a concert.
About raag Shri. It is one of the 6 ``Big`` raagas of our music system. It incorporates Veer Ras. It needs to be played, with vigour, style and an agressive attitude. The equivalent of that raag would be the Twilight of the gods, by Richard Wagner. To a new listener it is going to sound different. You need to listen to it a couple of times to really understand it and it`s meaning.
Keep listening to good stuff!
Cheers!
Hamid

Regarding Maharshtrians & music:

Pt. Bhimsen Joshi is actually a Kannada origin but spent much time among the ghatis and sang a lot. Marathi theatre was one of the biggest financial supporter of vocal music in early 20-th century, so it the ``Gandharvas`` could actually earn a living without having a royal patron, this perhaps is the reason for a large number of vocalist and teachers from maharashtra, inspite of lack of royal patronage (no major princely states in maharashtra). I see most marathis (and bengalis) encouraging their kids to take classes in classical music...boys are more encouraged for tabla since its ``manly`` :-)

Classical music actually is seeing much more patronage from public at large.. one friend reported from Ahmedabad...it was able to host a festival where pople paid large notes (of 500 rs denomination) and was house-full. This he said was unheard of in Gujrat 20 yrs back....only festivals were in pune or calcutta...maybe its kind of fashionable now?

Of older generation artists.. (someone mentined Prabha Atre .. who toured in n. america recently) ..some of them are past their prime and are not able to keep-up with the physical demands of touring and 4 hour concert schedules. they however are really good at lecture-demontration type formats.

``#36 by hamid_81 on November 29, 2003 1:10pm PT
Dear Yogiraj!
I have heard both of Roshanara ji`s recordings. ``

I am a fortunate one who could say ... that likes of you r borne. Bahut ShukriyaiN. Badi Meherbani. Meri Jindgi MaiN Hujoooor AAAAp.

I did listen Shankara By Prabha Atre. Was OK.

Only thing I can come close to what you wre talking about Hamid... was listening Bhup by Kishori Amonkarjee. The drut ``Sahela Re``. Please do listen. And a Bhajan in Bhimpalasi she sang. Cannot remember

I do have a little difference with you. (Even if I am too small a fish and a born idiot).

Sarod is, sirjee a better intrument. May be I am wrong. May be the player is better.

Please do listen to a Sindh Bhairavee and Shree (Shri??) by Ravi Shankar and Ali Akbar Khan. Both Bade Saabs.

Shree, is a very difficult one. I could not even comprehend.. forget enjoy. Beyond me. Please let me your feed back if you ever listen. I did not at all like it.

However, please listen to Bhairavee. Sirjee.... it was Ali Akbar Khan Saab who scored. My perception. May me I am wrong.

Honest opinion from an Idiot...

Do Rais Khan saab still have fascination with gazalal singing. Heard he started singing ``DeewarooN sey Batay karana Achcha lagata..`` When Ustadjee was on Sitar concert in Maharashtra. . True eye (NAH ear witness).

Thanks

Ironman,

Ya Ya .. I remember. Hawa mahel.. Eh. Do you want me to ``write`` music before every of those programs? Let me see ....Sangeeeeeet Saritaaa....

Our familily did not have a television in my house then. We had a radio. It could be always on. Timing might be a little early for you. I come from a very small place. My elder sister was on a very crucial educational .... TENTH. No TV.... Radio AOK.

Even today that is a tradition. Kids grow up no TV. But Radio is AOK. Not the same one anymore yaar.

Seems I did not miss anything. You simply gave me back what I never missed !!!!

It was a sheer luck even I could make it. Well GOD made ample sadhus and also a ... you know what (me)

Yogiraj

#45 by ballukhan on November 30, 2003 7:39am PT
Khan Sahib,
Salam! One of the foremaost reasons why classical music in Pakistan is on a decline, is because when Ustad`s and musicians migrated to Pakistan the people started thinking of them as Mirasis and randi-Baaz sort of people. Beacuse of that even the Ustad`s who were not associated with the Red Light area of Lahore, were forced to go and live there, because it was the only place where they could earn bread. Even now they think that a great Ustad HAS to live in the Old Lahore in the midst of the randis. This association of the Ustads with the prostitutes has not only given the music a bad name but has also forced many musicians to change their style. Ustad Bare Ghulam Ali Khan`s grandson, Sajjad Ali, who I have personally heard in private concerts, render all the thumris of Khansaheb, is now a pop singer. Many great Ustads have now been forced to sing ghazals in classical concerts. The people and the culture have been the prime factors for this demise of classical music. The Zamindari system in Pakistan is much more violent than in India. There are more, killings, more hatred between tribal people, more weapons, no love and no music. Plus our government is also made up of these, Tribal apes. So what can you expect? The only thing, you can expect, is poverty, mass killings, hatred, hunger, despair, grief and total dismay and chaos. And that is exactly what is happening. So that is why, people are not interested in music, but in better things like AK-47`s. So slowly but surely Pakistani youth has drifted away from Raag-Rung and has gone towards Raag-Jung.
But it is very nice to meet somebody and especially an Ustad like you. Even though I live in America, you can still be my guide. It is not often that you meet somebody who is a master of Dhrupad and plays the Been and the sitar and sings. But with due respect, Sir, I still think that sitar has the capability and the capacity to play anything and everything, in our classical music. Because it is the instrument that I play and love, probably my opinion is biased, but still, I think it is a very great instrument. :) I have never played been though I really want to. And yes we should definetly interact more. Here is my Yahoo e-mail address:
hwizard81@yahoo.com

Hope to hear more from you.
Hamid

#44 by mumbaikar on November 30, 2003 6:56am PT
A lot of Ustads migrated to Pakistan- from Bundu Khan SAheb to Rais Khan Saheb. Still the cultural will to accept Khayal or Dhrupad as part of the culture of Pakistan appears to be missing- Can anyone provide a more elaborate analyses regarding the factors contributing to the stagnation in the Classical music of this sub-continent in PAkistan??

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#35 by ballukhan on November 29, 2003 6:27am PT

The idea was to initiate the uninitiated, specifically children from one NGO. I was trying to convince them that music is a good alternative, akin to meditation, but the rules of today`s games require people to get equipped with more `smart options`. I was hoping to convince them otherwise. The `free tutorial` was not a bait, but the idea that someone would want to give free lessons revealed to me a higher purpose. Yes, I am in Mumbai, but the Dagars are too well-known and my `idealism` regarding the children is still fighting for breath.

Thanks for your reply anyway.

#37 by hamid_81 on November 29, 2003 1:10pm PT
I am happy to know that you are belong to my community of musician (i.e Sitar and Been)- we are a dwindling lot- we shouild interact more.

Ofcourse terms like ``easy`` and ``difficult`` are understandable with repect to some reference. Jhaptal is easier because of the symmetry of 2+3 , 2+3 gati. Infact, I have always found Sool Tal more difficult to play Been or sing Dhrupad- Sadras were basically in Sool Tal- but were sung in Jhap taal- there is a beautiful Sadra in Shankara which is also sung in Sool Tal at leisurely pace-

Asthayi goes like this-

Vaarun Ri Mrig Drigan Ko,
tere nayan par, bhave kamaan, Baan,
varun ri palakan pe.

Beautiful poem- real Sringaar Rasa-

In case you have learnt both Sitar as well as Been- you can understand the difference between playing with one finger stroke and two finger strokes- the latter is much nearer to the Karnatic saraswati veena fingering technique-

If you happen to hear the recording of Rais Khan Saheb`s father- Ustad Mohammad Khan Beenkar- then you would realize that Been sounds much better compared to Sitar when playing Khayal style of music- in fact, Been was one of the DEFACTO ACCOMPANING musical instrument (like today`s sarangi)- most of the best Dhrupadias and Khayaliyas were Beenkars (or Sarodiyas). I have always maintained that Sitar is basically for ``lighter`` styles like Ghazal, Thumri, Dadra etc- whether solo or as an accompanying instrument.

More on this later!! Cheers!!

sadna, yogiraj,

Yes! It was sangeet sarita.
Those were the heydays of radio. I thought I knew every program by heart on medium wave `ek hazaar teen-sow-sattar kilohertz`....lok-geet at 3:00, jaimala at 7:00, hawa mahal (9:00?), adventures of inspector eagle (9:45-10:00) and finally aap ki farmaish (10:30-11:00)!

#39 Fosa: You are right Music is haram according to Islam if you follow Islam.
Even liquor is haram according to Islam. But all armed forces of Ummah top leadership drinks. Things may be haram according to Islam but Muslim Ummah gives damn. In holy month go around and see how many people are indulging in food at forbidden times. Your position and commentary is right as per religion beliefs. If you like that way follow it for to believe is to act.
Let other follow what they want. If you believe then they will tortured in hell and burnt by Devil and you will be in heaven after judgement day with all forbidden things and indulge in all luxaries of Paradise. Others want enjoy here for short time before upperwalla call.
Any way what it matters you suffer on earth go to heaven, you induldge on earth go to hell. Is not same after summing all up. I think only difference is who suffers on earth is just not sure about paradise after judgement day as nobody has come back to varify. ( why person indulging things promised in heaven should waste his fun time to come to earth to describe what good time he has. Again all things are possible)

Again by religion wise you are right. I enjoy music here for I have sinned lot otherwise (even after excluding listening to music) so my chances are not good. If i am definitely going to be punished after Judgement why not indulge in audial sin. Neither feel of repenting.

Sorry for different path than you.
Please excuse me and my delinquencies of sinner.
I wish everybody good coming new 2004 year.

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