Ashura: Atonement, Mourning and Return

#119
soundmeister

I second your pitch.entirely!

Quaid-e-Azam answers to Sunni-Shia argument.

Too bad that the illiterates ( those who pretend or are proud that they do not know urdu--the riiff-raff, scum and the goragoochaaters of Pakistan) cannot read this.

A superb op-ed by MAULANA Irshad-ul-Haq Thaanvi.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

hamidm,

Your outright rejection of religion smells suspiciously like a prequel to more pious times ahead

---

believe me I`ve seen it happen- time and again

---

esp after the family doc advises against even that occasional peg of single malt and the kids are busy with their own lives

---

how will you kill the time then?

Of course your religion has rather more to reject than mine :))) Time to become a horrible hindoo? We have some really cute Gods- and with 3.3. million of em, we can spare a few your way

---

Cheers

Kas2004 #67 Thank you for taking the time out to answer my query.

I am against all self-acclaimed mullas/mailans/maulvis/fakirs here. You are all bull$hitting the people here. No one has a better god. god is one and the same for everyone.
Just follow the creedance: There in only one god and mohammed is his messenger.

Nothing more to be said. No intrepretation is required as it is self evident.

ttfn.

I am getting ready for my 4th blw job for the evening. The night is still young!!

Peace brothers ;-)

The song for all seasons:

bhitai sahib,

any academic book on the lives of the chishtis sufis or about hazrat shahbaz qalandar will tell u that in aqidah all of them were sunni muslims as was rumi and all of the other sufis. shiasm has its own branch of esoteric teachings called irfan.

amit #111

wrt the rat sanctuary, as long as they dont create a health problem in the neighborhood I guess they are welcome to keep rats - people keep all sorts of weird animals as pets for nonreligious reasons, so why not let a man keep a few rats in his house for religious reasons? Of course, if the place is infested with rats (as I once saw on a TV documentary of a temple in india), then that is as bad as Pakistan. In Pakistan, we have rats of a different kind - they are generally much taller and fatter than your ordinary rat, they have long strands of hair on their face, and eat a special diet which we call halva, and breed like rabbits. When properly trained, they can even speak Arabic (although, of course, like other talking animals they dont understand a word of what they say).

Just a minor correction - those who slammed planes on 9/.11 were not performing any religious ritual. Indeed, suicide is forbidden in the Quran, as is the taking of life with the exception of self-defense. And, as a practical matter, those individuals were clearly driven more by blind hatred than anything else.

arjun,

......exactly!........ you hit it on the head

hamidm #110 On rituals, I think they are OK as long as people do it in PRIVATE and dont inflict their rituals on the rest of us. So I dont have a problem with what you are saying here. This implies also banning loudspeakers in mosques (most people have access to a watch nowadays) which I think are the biggest nuisance in the muslim world and no one dares to speak up. Indeed, I once had a gentleman from Jeddah trying to convince me of the benefits of joining a development bank based in Jeddah by telling me of the wonderful voice of azaan to which he wakes up every morning. I assured him that that I had had enough of azaan living in Pakistan and if I never heard another one again that would be too soon.

Re:hamidm2 #110
Hamidji, religion is truly the opiate of the masses. It can take an otherwise sensible, rational individual and completely turn them into mindless automatons. I once saw on Discovery channel, this temple in North India, where people were worshipping live rats. I mean this place was swarming with hundreds and hundreds of rats and people were offering food, flowers and what not. Their faces were full of piety and I am sure they were all feeling happy that they were reserving their place in heaven by their acts. Now, I am a practicing hindu, but even my stomach turned when I saw that scene. I could not imagine how people could do something so unhygenic as getting close to rats and then worshipping them on top of it. But then, that is faith for you. It is futile to argue or debate it.
Well, at least it is better than slamming airplanes into buildings on the way to heaven...

............get over it .........

........ a foreign tourist in quetta, looking at the spectacle of the ashura with people wailing and flailing, turned to a local and asked, ``why are they so upset``......... the local replied, ``yazid killed hussain and his followers including women and babies``............. the tourist, shocked and deeply moved asked, ``when did that happen?``..........``oh, about fourteen hundred years ago``............amazed and incredulous, the man said, ``and they just found out about it !!??``.................

.......... well, what can i say .......it seems to be a universal madness............ even some christians, living in civilized societies with indoor toilets and running water, seem to have just found out that jesus christ, the purported son of god, was crucified by the roman governor in cahoots with the jews ............ they even made a movie about it and millions of them are spending eight fifty a head to go see a man being shredded and flayed and nailed to a big wooden cross .............how morbid, bizarre and grotesque!............. my question to them is, `` if jesus really was the son of god, why didn`t he simply twitch his nose and disappear instead of going through all that pain and suffering``............. ``oh, but you don`t understand.... you see, he was born to die for our sins............ he washed away our sins with his blood ....and then he was resurrected to join his father in heaven !``............ well, if that is the case, then what the heck are you guys crying about....... it was all pre-planned, father and son had this all figured out before he planted her in mary and send junior down to the holy land to mess with the establishment - he probably didn`t feel the pain any way, being the son of god and all that ............ so stop wailing and blaming the poor jews - be happy!.... rejoice!.......everything went according to plan ..............

............ i think a similar argument can be made for the sad demise of hussain and his followers ............in any case, i wish people would get over their grief and get on with the business of living .................

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

hamidm #107 you write `` they are all equally dangerous ................ ``

How so?

What is dangerous is taking your terms of reference from an ideology (any ideology) rather than from a set of human-centered values (as provided in the preamble to the US constitution, e.g.). What is dangerous is taking responsibility away from the individual and place it with the head of the state (as is true for all non-democratic states, including theocracies, autocracies, dictatorships) rather than making each individual the freedeom AND the responsibility to use his common sense and to work within the law.

The reason I refer to the Quran is because people are discussing religion, AND because I find the Quran to be emphasizing these same values. I know that you have quoted specific passages in the past to me that seem to support the mullah mindset of violence, but I have found those to be not representative of the basic message of the Quran. I wont get into another round of discussion on this since we have been on this road before and it leads nowhere. So, you are free to interpret the Quran as you please, just as all the other sects are free to interpret it as they please. It doesnt bother me one bit. But if I see a spade I will call it a spade, regardless of the fact that hamidm assures me it is a hockey stick.

I do want you to understand this point I am making so I dont need to repeat it: I am not here to change anyone`s mind. (ALthough I think Romair seems to have quietly picked up on this since I see some of his latest posts repeating my lines even though I know he doesnt like me at all because I dont take his military strategy and other sermons seriously. Ha! Ha!)

Anyway, relax. I am not here to start a movement to reform islam. I couldnt care less what other people believe. I just dont like being told (not even by the great Mr. hamidm) that I should listen to what he is saying even though my eyes tell me otherwise.

tahmed

............ you ask, ``Have you ever heard of the ``Christianity Cult`` or the ``Muslim Cult`` or the ``Hindu Cult``?``

............ in my view they are all cults .........but it seems that most people tend to accept them as bonafide religion (whatever that is) once the number of idiotic followers exceeds some magic number ( 100 million?) .............. for example, the branch dravidians were a cult because they were a couple of hundred strong; on the other hand, mormons are now considered to be followers of a ``real`` religion because they are in the millions ...........muslims were a cult at badr, but were a real religion by the time they marched into mecca to destroy the bamiyan statues .............. by the same definition ahmediya is a religion, but your cult of koran worship is very much a cult ..............i am sure folks like naqshbandi think you guys are koranis and should not be allowed to call yourself muslims because you deny alhadith and other tales from the life of the prophet ...............cult or religion, it doesn`t really matter - they are all equally dangerous ................