Junk-Urdu Phenomenon

we asians are not afraid of coming to western countries to earn pounds and dollars,we dont mind wearing western clothes in desi style,we dont mind dating ``gori mames`` and we dont mind corrupting their language, but when our children ``ghusaao`` english words into their urdu/hindi/punjabi, we are up in the arms...!!! Isn`t it hypocracy? We should be happy that our children do try to speak their mother l tongue,albeit ``corrupted``.In fact we are responsible for leaving them in this confused frame of mind and identity crisis.If we are trying to move with the moving world and accepting the changes,then these changes will also have to be accepted....languages can not lag behind when everything else is undergoing change.Today only I read headline in the local news paper(in a uk city) `Nappy ``GURU`` job panned as potty.English people are also using words from our languages.Punjabi,urdu and hindi have nothing to fear from english,they should rather be afraid of politicians in their own countries.

we asians are not afraid of coming to western countries to earn pounds and dollars,we dont mind wearing western clothes in desi style,we dont mind dating ``gori mames`` and we dont mind corrupting their language, but when our children ``ghusaao`` english words into their urdu/hindi/punjabi, we are up in the arms...!!! Isn`t it hypocracy? We should be happy that our children do try to speak their mother l tongue,albeit ``corrupted``.In fact we are responsible for leaving them in this confused frame of mind and identity crisis.If we are trying to move with the moving world and accepting the changes,then these changes will also have to be accepted....languages can not lag behind when everything else is undergoing change.Today only I read headline in the local news paper(in a uk city) `Nappy ``GURU`` job panned as potty.English people are also using words from our languages.Punjabi,urdu and hindi have nothing to fear from english,they should rather be afraid of politicians in their own countries.

Interesting article....!!
If any1 around here has the experience of going to public school of pak and being taught Physics, Chemistry, Mathematics and biology in Urdu...??? Ppl. when these ppl. try to teach this stuff in urdu, it really creates a scene....
Acceleration is ``issraa``.....
cetripital and cetrifugal forces are ``makaz gurez and markaz something quwwat``....
the funniest and most imcomprehensible is the mathemtical concept of ``zoo izaaf-e-akal`` which in english is called as ``Lowest common multiple``......for majority of urdu students these terms remain incomprehensible as they cannot relate them properly...e.g. in the case of ``zoo-izaaaf-e-akal``....i used to wonder as what it has to do with ``aqal`` till my dad explained me the meaning of ``akal`` which different than that of ``aqal`` and explained the concept to me:)

I guess,,,,either the whole this needs to be translated into rather more comprehensible urdu or the students need to be taught a differnt urdu than that of the ``urdu subject text books`` OR english needs to be adopted as a medium of studies specially for science subjects.

I can put forth even funnier examples from my LLB course,,,,trust me the urdu legal language is soooo very difficult and sometimes sounds funny....jus to add a lil spice heres an example....``Restitution of Conjugal rights`` will be called as ``daawa zan-aashoee``, if you put these terms to a student who has average knowledge of both urdu and english, he will be able to make better sense out of english term than the urdu...!!

re:#42 by AlephNull on March 28, 2004 2:44pm PT
A belated thanks for your correction.
Sridhar

rsridhar #38

{{an Italian who became a great Tamil poet and literary figure viz Constanitine Beluchi?}}

Costanzo Beschi

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#37Goddess Bibi,

it is an excellent idea of yours counting from 0--Infinity in Urdu if one wants to kick the habit of mixing English language with Urdu. I wish you embark on this mission and get successful and if you do, please open a surgery right opposite to the ARY offices in Dubai call it ``Therapist in Junk Urdu Phenomenon``.

You see kids grow up to speak language(s) which they are brought up with both at home and at school. In Pakistan, unfortunately, parents speak in Junk Urdu at home with their children, so do the teachers at school and therefore, kids coming out of school speak the same Junk Urdu. Somehow this vicious circle must be interrupted.

My two children both born and brought up in the UK are fluent in two European languages, which they use extensively at work. I tell you they never mix these languages when they speak. I have staff (I run a business) from some six fifferent European countries, and I notice that they never mix English language with their own native languages when they speak amoung temselves. Guess what! Only we Pakistanis and Indians do and we do it proudly.

#37Goddess Bibi,

it is an excellent idea of yours counting from 0--Infinity in Urdu if one wants to kick the habit of mixing English language with Urdu. I wish you embark on this mission and get successful and if you do, please open a surgery right opposite to the ARY offices in Dubai call it ``Therapist in Junk Urdu Phenomenon``.

You see kids grow up to speak language(s) which they are brought up with both at home and at school. In Pakistan, unfortunately, parents speak in Junk Urdu at home with their children, so do the teachers at school and therefore, kids coming out of school speak the same Junk Urdu. Somehow this vicious circle must be interrupted.

My two children both born and brought up in the UK are fluent in two European languages, which they use extensively at work. I tell you they never mix these languages when they speak. I have staff (I run a business) from some six fifferent European countries, and I notice that they never mix English language with their own native languages when they speak amoung temselves. Guess what! Only we Pakistanis and Indians do and we do it proudly.

re: this article
Author bemoans that Urdu is not pure anymore. Which language is?
I know personally that Tamil has so changed in Tamil Nadu that the so called ``pure Tamil`` (or SenTamizh as it is called) is confined only to the books. In other words, spoken Tamil is so different from written one that if i speak the way it is written, people will think i am crazy!
For a long time as a Tamilian growing up in Delhi, i did not know the Tamil equivalent of the word ``Thanks``. Most Tamilians i know, when they want to say Thanks in Tamil, they just use the English word. It took me a while to figure out the actual Tamil word for ``Thanks``.
Even the script that is used by Tamilians today is different from one in the ancient past (and was introduced by an Italian who became a great Tamil poet and literary figure viz Constanitine Beluchi? There is the Italian connection that the Gandhi family can flaunt!). All the ancient texts are in a script that nobody knows today. Tamil is the second most ancient Indian language after Sanskrit. Sanskrit is literally dead as a spoken language and Tamil as was once spoken is dead too.
If this can happen to 2 most ancient and very popular languages in India (Tamil was spoken in all of South India more than 4 centuries ago for thousands of years; all others like Telugu, Kannada, Malayalam evolved out of Tamil), is it surprising that Urdu is undergoing a similar fate? It is falling prey to fashion. It is fashionable nowadays to use English words, especially in the subcontinent to show off that one is educated. One can see it being done in every language. Urdu is no exception.
Urdu`s problem is confounded by the fact that a very small percentage of people can claim it as their mother tongue. For Tamilians Tamil is mother tongue. For Bengalis it is Bengali. For Punjabees, it is Punjabi. Whose mother tongue is Urdu?
In Pak, Urdu has grown due to official patronage and also because a lot of people thought is stylish to speak Urdu. Punjabis in Pak prefer Urdu to Punjabi and then bemoan that Punjabi is languishing!
Urdu will keep changing as other languages have. Purists wil keep complaining but who cares. Cling on to what is best in Urdu. Personally, i like the sher-o-shaiari and the poetic aspect of Urdu which i think will never die.
Sridhar

though i despise the recent pakistani dramas with their half-urdu half-english (unglish) sentences, and though there is nothing more mesmerizing then hearing someone speak solid unadulterated urdu or punjabi (etc.), due to the fact that knowledge of english has become an `elitist` notion in Pakistan, English should be the national language so that everyone from the jharru vala to the rickshayvala to the bank manager can communicate in one and the same language.

Exactly what Dadi says and I can`t agree with it more. I`ve spent all my schooling years in Abu Dhabi, which is quite multi-cultural. Every single year of my schooling life, I came across `language complexed` Pakistanis who got embarrassed if a fellow Pakistani would start speaking to them in Urdu, loud enough for others to hear the conversation. And how could I forget those ::fat:: aunties who`d proudly tell people that their children speak English so often that they stammer speaking in Urdu.

lahori200: English has become ``Modern English`` but it`s still English! And there are lots of `pure` languages, in which, the most informal conversations between people never require replacing a native word with its English version. Why is the wide usage of the English language having such a huge impact on Urdu?

jay: The disability to fill application in English; that`s another story. The article`s more about how English words are substituting ordinary Urdu words used in everyday conversations.

I had a bet with my friends of not using a single English word for an hour in our girly gossips and I could hardly do it for a few minutes. I`m not a `complexed` individual (I`d rather be mute than be embarrassed of using my mother-tongue) but I completely agree that the new Urdu-English mixed talking style has successfully brainwashed even the clear cut Urdu speakers. Despite being an unlucky user of this new language, I think awareness should be spreaded. Perhaps, we can start by making an effort to learn how to count in Urdu, from 0 to infinity. (Yes Aunties, I`m not happy about not being able to count in Urdu after 20 onwards. Your kids probably aren`t either.)

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Pure languages die. Because the masses do not care for the purity or otherwise of the language. It is convienience that matters. Also it is false to blame other languages for corruption of a language. The language develops by corruption and bastardization. The English of 400 years ago was nothing like the English today. In the global village ultimately everybody will be speaking the same bastardised language which will have words frorm all over.

real urdu,

Here is another pakistani lamenting about the fate of urdu the usual impotyent pak attitude. What cant you do something about it. In pakistan, one cannot write the admin service exam, the equivalent of IAS in india, in Urdu. In india one can do this. So much for the pak national language.

What pakistan needs is an identity, a dose of self respect. One can make a beginningg by accepting that tahmed bin urstruly abu yassar of faisalabad is a pariah.

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It is nice to see the Govt. officials, film celebrities, sports and ordinary people from pakistan and India visiting and enjoying each others` company. What bugs me is that though Urdu and Hindi languages are almost one and the same when spoken, yet these people prefer to converse in a kind of English language. Doesn`t it make you wonder how mindful and proud and proud and very proud we are of our heritage?

i did a little research in Oxford (UK) on the effect of the English language on other major languages; I asked Germans, spanish, italians, Russians, and Polish, whether they use English words in their respective languages when they speak, the answer was definitely NO. When I asked French, I was laughed at.