The Rock Star and the Mullahs

I have not seen the documentry.He just asked for verse in QURAN that contains words about the Forbiddens of music.But in my opinion he should also give some citations because it will proov his point in a much effective way.He talks about sufism and dont even know the history of sufism.I wonder if he know about "TARIQA S".Every sufi links sufism back to Mola ALI (A.S) except for the Naqshbandi order because they link their origin back to Hazrat abu bakar.Both rules links their roots to madina.The oldest sufi order known today is from Iraq.So no,its not a local ideology.But he is right about the mullahs they are importing saudi sect a.k.a wahabism.But salman is also doing no good because he is also giving expossure to his concepts without any proof.my main point is that we should do some research and study before shooting stuff because not all sects beleave inthe restrictions of music.And all the sufi-rock thing is just a wrapper for making money.I never get any teachings from junoons sufi-rock.They never wrote or played any song that teaches "Lataif-e-Sitta" which are the basic of sufism.Music is allowed under specific conditions defined by every ayatullah for their followers because "TAQLEED" is a neccessry in Shiite sect.So in reflect sufism is also the biggest school of thought that practice music.Shiite sect is the closest sect in islam to sufism followed by Non-tempered sunnism.So its acctually wahabism that dont allow any kind of artform.So,anyone who hates mullah s should not drag all of the Islam,because every sect is different and has their own rules (Sharia).Im not saying it to salman but this is becoming a trend.And i have nothing against wahabism.And sufism is not a sect(just for information),its a state of mind.

Great documentary...

#48 by carpejuglum

Thanks for sharing your experience. :) Why don`t you write some article about your trip and share it with everyone? It would be interesting.

I got a strange feeling of deja vu reading Ahmed`s post. This February a delegation of 15 students from my college went to Lahore to take part in a debate. Our hosts were also holding a Junoon concert on campus and being honored guests we got the ringside view.

And like Ahmed puts it....Everything was rock n roll as usual till they started “Jazba-e-Junoon”. Most of us being non hindi speakers did`nt even realise it was a patriotic song till the ``Pakistan kabhi na ..`` line came up. I remember the boy in front of me literally stop mid headbang...the Indians looked at each other sheepishly..then came to a common realisation of what the heck and continued...

We had a brilliant time...and at the risk of being labelled a bleeding heart peace nik as people tend to do on chowk....music kind of smoothes away all differences if only for a few minutes...you loose national character and become part of a crowd...moving to the beat..the crowd lives, breaths and headbangs together....

I`m loosing coherence...so signing off

Words with no sounds are allowed. No one haa said that music of all type is allowed. Only an instrument called ``Duff`` is allowed which is played to show the pleasure and success. Besides this the poetry without music is also allowed, to a limit.

I have read from a valid source that music is allowed in Islam as long as it does not instruct us or tempt us to do wrong or haraam things.

My advice is not to listen to any mullahs but to listen to the words of the wuran and associated islamic texts of fact!!

Enough said??

#43 by mog

That was the whole point. When you are having a good time and enjoying good music, you often end up leaving your biases behind. Just like the Indian crowd dancing to Pakistani patriotic songs, many of our religious friends are often seen listening to music, although they would give lecture on music being haraam otherwise. :) What’s the thanedaar and Hyundai Santro connection? Thanks.

#42 by omar_r_quraishi
``dude why comment on something u have little or no knowledge of ? as in the pakistani music scene -- jang is u ???? wow, how profound jang jee -- ``

dont call me dude omar from the tribe of quraish. either validate my conjecture or argue whay why its wrong (please).

AhmedBilal/40 welcome back You mean the Pakistanis and Indians were dancing together did anybody step on anybody else`s toes did you not object if some Indians were dancing too close to Pakistanis terrible now you will be labled a Paki-basher too got to go find a thanedaar and a Hyundai Santro now.

#41 by jang on July 14, 2004 3:02pm PT -- 00181596
#38 by omar_r_quraishi on July 14, 2004 6:42am PT
look, junoon is a ``rock`` band with wailing guitars. they may be riding the sufi band-wagon, but they aint no sabri brothers. so i think their audience is the burger class. if that is incorrect, tell me why so with something more logical than calling me delusional. and jang is me.

dude why comment on something u have little or no knowledge of ? as in the pakistani music scene -- jang is u ???? wow, how profound jang jee --

#38 by omar_r_quraishi on July 14, 2004 6:42am PT
look, junoon is a ``rock`` band with wailing guitars. they may be riding the sufi band-wagon, but they aint no sabri brothers. so i think their audience is the burger class. if that is incorrect, tell me why so with something more logical than calling me delusional. and jang is me.

ballukhan

The blueprint for what you describe as the ``ambitious`` mullah`s M.O. was handed down by Washington. The root of the problem started with their unthinking and destructive policies. So-called Jehadis are no different than anti-commie barbarians who Americans supported in South and central America.

Now, Americans are out of that game. Yet the momentum of the Jehadi`s goes on strong. Mullah does it for what he thinks is a higher cause, but is himself being used by Generals just as America used Pakistan. It`s like a father who abuses the child...child ends up becoming an abuser as well.

Needless to say, the source of the problem may be America but they`ve completely washed their hands of the mess...Paks can cry over the rubbish or do their best to clean it up. For certain, putting this responsibility on anyone else (esp. Americans again) will only lead to a bigger mess.

I don`t understand those Pak generals sometimes...cold war is over, yet they doggedly stick to cold war stratagems.

Junoon did a concert here a couple of years back. As usual they were nice enough to let us gather in front of the stage and party. The crowd had a large number of Indians too. Everything was rock n roll as usual till they started a patriotic song “Jazba-e-Junoon”. When they reached the “Pakistan kabhi na bhoolo” part, a portion of the dancing Indian crowd stopped, which was followed by embarrassed looks and whispers. But soon they realized that it was ok and joined the chorus in best spirit of having fun with the music.

#32 by jang on July 13, 2004 2:43pm PT
perhaps the establishment tacitly supports anti-music stance becuase music would tend to be indian (although clearly, everyone loves the music). juoon etc is ok as its kind of phoren and more or less restricted to the burger class.

-- yet another pearl of wisdom from the delusional jang jee -- who by the way refuses to reveal his `persona`-- yes ali azmat is so phoren -- esp his broken english and his frequent use of punjabi in tv interviews --

#35 by vertex on July 13, 2004 10:50pm PT

Ofcourse most of the `revolutionary` separatist movements all over the world have ripped heavily from the Handbooks of Socialistic Guerilla Warfare. So the Islamic revolutionary ripping is understood. Ofcourse the average mullah is more of a bufoon- whose knowledge of nature and sciences is tolerated as a part of our folklores . He is a good chap who tries to keep the Ummah together with his services.
But the ambitious ones are the dangerous ones- and their machinations has an economic base which I have spoken in the Jehadi economics. This economy only benefits these ambitious mullahs and those elites who want to utilize his power of unlimited violence over the people due to his band of zealots that he grooms. So these ambitious mullahs are like a mob leader- like a state within a state who creates his own rules by his power to interpret the tradition and the faith and by the power that he holds over the followers. And once he has access to the latest arms - his power to threaten others becomes manifold- and becomes virtually un-assailable.
That is what has happened in Pakistan- its mullahs have become organized mob leaders and have access to the latest arms. They are ambitious, they want a piece of pie from their local economy which thrives despite them (modern states call this as Taxes!) and for doing all this they have the desire and courage to proclaim themselves as the sole representative of the almighty. The Jehadi economy now runs the madarassas, gives salaries to the Jehadis, provides insurance covers to the Jehadi families, run the best arms and narcotics business, sell anything they can , provide protection, seek taxes and protection money (as donations) and even helps army (or anyone for that matter!) to topple governments.
So who is to blame still for this- the Americans or You and Me?

#35 by vertex on July 13, 2004 10:50pm PT

Ofcourse most of the `revolutionary` separatist movements all over the world have ripped heavily from the Handbooks of Socialistic Guerilla Warfare. So the Islamic revolutionary ripping is understood. Ofcourse the average mullah is more of a bufoon- whose knowledge of nature and sciences is tolerated as a part of our folklores . He is a good chap who tries to keep the Ummah together with his services.
But the ambitious ones are the dangerous ones- and their machinations has an economic base which I have spoken in the Jehadi economics. This economy only benefits these ambitious mullahs and those elites who want to utilize his power of unlimited violence over the people due to his band of zealots that he grooms. So these ambitious mullahs are like a mob leader- like a state within a state who creates his own rules by his power to interpret the tradition and the faith and by the power that he holds over the followers. And once he has access to the latest arms - his power to threaten others becomes manifold- and becomes virtually un-assailable.
That is what has happened in Pakistan- its mullahs have become organized mob leaders and have access to the latest arms. They are ambitious, they want a piece of pie from their local economy which thrives despite them (modern states call this as Taxes!) and for doing all this they have the desire and courage to proclaim themselves as the sole representative of the almighty. The Jehadi economy now runs the madarassas, gives salaries to the Jehadis, provides insurance covers to the Jehadi families, run the best arms and narcotics business, sell anything they can , provide protection, seek taxes and protection money (as donations) and even helps army (or anyone for that matter!) to topple governments.
So who is to blame still for this- the Americans or You and Me?