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#293 by yoganchod

Some clarifications on behalf of Shiraz (or Syrrah as he is called in France.)

Lord Rama is considered by Hindus to be an ideal, and hence if he did shared his wife with his brothers, hindus sould at least consider a man who does that to be really cool. But Rama did not do this, I think you are confused with the Pandavas, who shared a dark-skinned wife called Draupadi.

Re. Mr Shiva, he did not chop Ganeshas head because he was horny, but because he suspected that Ganesha, who claimed that he was Parvatis (shivas wife) child, was not his. I dont think hindus attempt to immitate shiva anyways, as he had many bad habits like wearing skins for clothes, so no hindus dont think chopping off a suspected illegitimate child is an act of kindness. However, they worship Ganesh big time as ileegitimate or not, he turned out to be really smart, and is revered as a symbol of scholarship. Needless to say, Hindus hold scholarship to be one of the highest values.

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Burqa Clad Women Are More Immoral

I have seen some Burqa Clad women in the Middle East (Abu Dhabi) run around the neighborhood without wearing ANYTHING underneath (particularly in the morning and afternoon when the men are away at work and only the Pathan retailers are walking around with their illegal wares).

I guess Burqa Clad women believe in giving it only to the Mahrams (those related by blood) and perhaps a Pathan or two in the alleyways.

In the end Burqa clad women are more immoral because of their state of subjugation and more promiscuous precisely because of the Burqa.

They could be walking around with a man between their legs and no one would know!

Their excuses are :
- they can wear old cloths underneath which goes to show why its the practise of the lowest classes and the most impoverished in Pakistan.
- they can walk without men harassing them which is a masochistic and pathological reaction to harassment and lends credence to their subjugated state.

despite all the lectures given to us by summaiah on choice
this is the real situation in pakistan. it is a shame and summaiah is
responsible in perpetuating the stautus quo by her sermons.

from yahoo news:

It`s blasphemous to look PIA airhostesses body contours


Islamabad, July 28 (ANI): Opposition members in the Pakistan National Assembly have raised a hue and cry over a recent decision to allow airhostesses of the national carrier- Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) to remove their veils while on duty.

Terming it blasphemous, the opposition led by the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal insisted that airhostesses must cover their heads at all times, instead of ``provocatively highlighting the evil-inducing contours of the female body.``

The modest dressing of the female crew was no guarantee of good morals in itself, the MMA said, adding that the passengers on board the aircraft should also remember that ``Islam enjoins upon males to keep their eyes away or low, if encountering the unrelated females in everyday life.``

``Ideally, they should always be covering their heads. However, there is no harm if occasional slipping occurs,`` The News quoted the opposition as saying.

Syed Tanvir Hussain Shah, the parliamentary secretary of defence, had a trying time assuring female members of the MMA that the PIA management would take steps to end this practice. (ANI)

A very well placed source (female student in pak) tells me that, despite their appearances that many of these hijabins in fact have looser morals (flirtatious etc.). Makes sense.. more room for hanky panky and no one will suspect

:-)

#296 by nikki7777 on July 26, 2004 5:17pm PT

Its all about perception, so there is no right or wrong answer but you can give your reasons for calling me a pig over milkshake ?

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haha, the most crappy article/work i read on chowk to date. :-) thanks man it`s 4 AM may be this will help me get some sleep now.

yagacho,
answers to your questions
1. no
2. no

How is it related to this article by the way?

solitute,

are you A.Shiraz`s keep that you are replying on his behalf or are you Mr. A. Shiraz posting as Solitude.

ok tell me

1. if your lord ram shared his wife with all brothers is it cool for hindus to do so?
2. if shiva chopped off ganesha`s head because he was feeling horny then is it ok for hindu believers to do similar acts of kindness?

your comments on these questions about ``SANATANA DHARMA`` will be highly appreicated....

A. Shiraz,

Where are you. Have you tried a micro mini skirt on your on your sister/mother/chachi/phuphi/daadi/naani/khala/mausi/bhanji as i said before??

I see that this is driving the fundamentalists to song and poetry. Particularly this Sumaya character who has gone rabid with multiple posts of some Islamic convert`s ``I am a Muslim Woman`` poem.

She is spamming every other page with it and I have seen this poem getting circulated in usenet since early 1990s! some Mullah going to a Labanese school wrote ``I am a Muslim Woman hear me scratch out the eyes of everyone else`` and these people have gone nuts over it.

I read versions where this convert begins to abuse and ridicule the other women.

Here is a little something for everyone :

When the working day is done,
Oh,girls,
They wanna have fu-un,
Oh,girls,
Just wanna have fun....

Some boys take a beautiful girl,
And hide her away from the rest of the world.
I wanna be the one to walk in the sun.
Oh,girls,
They wanna have fu-un.
Oh,girls,
Just wanna have
That`s all they really want.....
Some fun....


The above ofcourse does not apply to Muslim women because most of these fanatical women don`t work! have never lifted a hand to work but would rather park their fat arse (which they hide with fifteen layers of veils) and make all the ``Christian`` Karantis do all the work. I think it gives them a sense of power and security and they take pride in the fact that they can live a life of sloth while the ``karanti`` is cleaning and cooking for them.

Perfect ruination for a beautiful day, a Muslima in veil. (hey that rhymed?)

Here is something that doesn`t rhyme : lose the fundamentalism and lose the veil or go back to Afghanistan/ Saudi Arabia/ N. Africa or wherever you come from and let all those people in Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia who are hard working and are willing to embrace freedom and the values of the west come to the west.

Echoboom# 290:

Respected Sir,

You have read my mind. I had decided before hand frankly not to persue this thread any more. Thanks for the post anyways. It`s certainly a change from the usual allegations of being brainwashed and what not!

Kind regards.

Summaiya:289

Respected Lady.

After having repeated yourself ad-nauseum to the blind, deaf and mute, you might as well not reply. They do not want an answer. They want to hound you. These dogs.

You do have the option to bring up cyber-stalking as unacceptable with the CHOWK staff.
on the other hand, CHOWK staff sometimes gives an impression of tacitly approving anti-muslim sensibilities.

Nothing`s new under the sun
Life, though, has just begun.

For Dharma and solitude:

God indeed created me equal to man and that is y I am in no way inferior to him and that is why I can choose to dress up the way I want to just the way a man does. If a man chooses to wear say Bermudas then I can also choose to wear a headscarf.

I have repeatedly stated that I don’t use the veil and oppose it and I have already given my reasons earlier.

I use the head scarf but not regularly and only in places where there is a chance of facing harassment from the males. And that is my personal choice. . If some male decides to wear a hat I would not create a fuss over it. It is their decision. Our religion does require males to dress modestly too. The men, like women are also asked to dress modestly.

I personally believe that a human will not be evaluated in front of Allah’s eyes on the basis of whether they wore a hijab or not, or whether they were enveiled or not? What really matters in the end is whether we were true and honest; whether we helped our fellow beings or not, whether we treated our parents, family and friends kindly etc.


My entire stance in earlier posts has been to not to discriminate against scarf wearing females. They are like normal human beings. they work, go to the gym , eat, sleep, have friends, like to socialize, get a better education, like dressing up etc. just like normal females do. They are not aliens so stop treating them like one.

I just want people to realize that every human should be given the right to dress the way they want to. If some Muslim female is not allowed to do do that, for example, in countries like Iran, Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia, then that is wrong. And, I fully oppose it. Do you know that some young females of Iran, who are brilliant ice skaters are not allowed to participate in the Olympics by their government, even though there is a very good chance that they will win because of their extremist notions? That, sir, is wrong. Those females ahould be given the right to excel and live their lifes they want to.

Similarly, if I wear the head scarf in front of strangers , then that is my conscious choice too.I should be given the right to live my life I want to, as well, don’t you think?

As for swimming with extra layers of clothing… please don’t assume like gujjubania.  If I had not focused my attention on the legal field and was still taking part in swimming competitions and maybe was just good enough to participate in the Olympics, ( now that’s a thought!  ) then right now, I would have a petition ready for the officials to let me swim in a knee length swimming costume. But then I don’t need to, our Pakistani swimmers are going places anyways.

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For many years, the women say, it was impossible for women to swim competitively in Pakistan, a country with a 97 percent Muslim population, as traditional swimsuits were considered too revealing because they left women’s legs exposed. The Pakistani women swimmer wear a high-neck, vest-style suit that leaves their arms uncovered but covers their legs down to the ankle. In 1997, Pakistan’s government relented, granting permission for the first female swimmers to compete in the Islamic Women’s Games in Tehran, Iran. The Afro-Asian Games mark only the fourth time Pakistani women swimmers have competed in a major international event. They previously competed in the 2002 Commonwealth Games in Manchester, England, the 2002 Asian Games in Busan, South Korea, and the World Championships in Barcelona last July.

Back home, the swimmers have gained a fan following and are minor celebrities, regularly giving interviews and appearing on television. “They’re becoming a lot more supportive and open to the idea of us going abroad to compete,” Mehrunnisa Khan, 16, says of the Pakistani public. The government, she adds, is “trying to promote women’s swimming because they want us to win medals and bring prestige to the country.”
*****************************************************************************


Every female should be given the right to dress as they want. I have stated numerous times before, and I am going to state it again, there is no compulsion in religion. It is only the Mullahs and the backward extremists who have greatly distorted it.

The scarf indeed is no criteria for my success. I am what I am despite the scarf. That is all I am trying to say. And a woman’s success is not hampered because she wears the scarf.

It is hampered when men impose their wishes on them ; when they are forced to not study or work; when they are beaten up by insecure husbands and brothers; when males view them as sex objects; when they are FORCED to wear the veil or head scarf or FORCED to not wear it as well.

Why can’t a woman live her life, just the way she wants?

Kind regards.


Ps. Never have I defended in my previous posts the concept of polygamy. Coming from such a background, I expect no one to understand what it feels like. Frankly, I am against polygamy and think that is only excusable in case of infertility in either husband or wife (and that too if both of them agree to it). But, I do not want to expand on this aspect.

A woman can have four husbands in Islam. She will only have to go through the process of subsequent divorces. But, I am not for polygamy in any case whether it’s a male or female.

summaiah
Have you ever thought about the following:
1) if god created you equal to man why did you end up in this position?
Why dont men veil themselves. Why cant women have 4 husbands?
I am sure you get the drift.

The answer is simple. They are more powerful and they control your lives.
It is time you realize that and take control of your life. Forget religion,
piety, god and the rest of the BS. it is all invention of man to control
your mind and body.
There is no difference between you and a person living on drugs
except that the addict may be having more fun. Just give it a thought.
What if there is no god? Is your life well spent (assuming this is the only
chance you get at life) in that scenario worrying about god?
I know what you would say. Cant argue with faith. No argument would make
any sense to you since you are already brainwashed - you need a rehab.