In Condom Country

i really enjoyed this article, i have a little to add by saying using condoms sometimes is condemned by their mothers in teh case of married men..i think they play a role aswell...wen they consider that they themselves were not given a choice of chosing when to conceive and so the daughter in law should also not be given this choice..this is just something i can across...when doing some research in a village in Kashmir.. i just felt that some women thought bad if there Men use condoms... ..BUT i do agree with you 100%..very thought provoking article..

Interesting reading.Brings forth different views on the use of condoms which are rather funny but to be enjoyed nonetheless.I liked reading the article.

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#35 jawahara
..myths (sensation, etc) ..

I see. Now you`re an expert on how men must feel.

Hey Farzana, thanks for keeping this discussion going. Of course I understand that this article was written from a subcontinental perspective.The solution to most of the issues you raise, is of course, practical sex education where myths (sensation, etc) can be laid to rest. Once we get into small town and women and in villages we`re in different waters altogether. They truly do not own their own bodies and no amount of sex ed will help them at this point.

About the porn industry in the west: it is now a requirement that condoms have to be used and they are really rallying behind the safe sex thing. Just recently it was revealed that despite the safeguards a promiment male porn star got infected with HIV and the entire porn industry voluntarily shut down production for a couple of months. Not sure what is happening now.

The reason I thought the Viagra thing was not needed here was that the article was about condoms and safe sex and I didn`t think a sexual dysfunction drug was superfluous here.

Of course, most of these issues would not happen in a relationship based on mutual trust where the partners talk about protection, etc. That is a given. The article (I believe) talked about protection despite the lack of communication, right? If there is open communication and both people assume the responsibility there would be no cause to complain.

I too know women in India and here who start taking the pill secretly. I have also known of two women who poked holes in condoms so that they could get pregnant and their boyfriends would be forced to marry them. I think they are similar in a yucky way to the guy you know who was happy about the prospect of his many bastards floating around somewhere. But, and maybe I am being naive here, I don`t think condom-poking women and men happy to have impregnated women are the rule.

We are totally in tune about equality. The only way out of this is open communication and respect between the partners. However, this is complicated not only by the male-female divide in India but also the whole male-female relationship the world over. These are complicated, game playing relationships and even relative equality (as in the US) is not going to solve these issues. All we can hope for, I think, is for small, individual gains and not sweeping change.

I have enjoyed this Farzana and look forward to hearing what else you have to say. I really look forward to reading your stuff. Take care :-)

Hi Jawahara:

I am glad you brought up some contrarian thoughts.

I do tend to speak from the sub-continental perspective alone, and therefore some issues appear to be reduced.

I agree that men too are at risk, which is why the condom is so important.

[in this day and age, chivalry be damned, if you are a sexually active woman (or man for that matter) you are responsible for yourself and that includes protection. If you want to have sex but you don`t want the threat of disease foreshadowing you, you should carry your own protection. There are increasing numbers of women who carry condoms just in case the guy plays dumb and says he does not have it and can they ``do it anyway.`` And if the man says No to this the woman should say No to sex. Simple as that!]

There are innumerable problems here.
1. In a society where men are hesitant to walk into a store and buy condoms, you can imagine how the women would feel about making such a purchase.
2. I am afraid that even today in urban areas too, due to the lack of knowledge about our bodies and the stereotypes, women depend a lot on men to make the first move. This puts them at a disadvantage, in that they assume men are taking charge and responsibility. The idea of condoms ``coming in the way of real sensation`` has been effectively sold to women. Even the worldly-wise woman who has had a good time with a vibrator will buy this theory and in fact see it as concern on the part of the male for her ``added pleasure``.
3. Saying No is a good way out, but we are talking about wives who are insecure and have to `keep` their husbands; they cannot risk having a sulking man at best and a beast at worst around for the rest of their married lives. Then we have commercial sex workers who have been specifically taught about condom usage so that the client does not pretend to be too drunk -- the consequences can be quite drastic if the man does not care about his safety and hers; I have spoken to quite a few CSWs and they complain that if they are not beaten up by the client, they are by the madam; they are truly victimised.

(Incidentally, there was a report that even in the west porn show stars have been told to use condoms while performing -- this means that even in the more liberated and aware sections there are hidden reasons.)

There may be sexually active women who are independent financially and in thought to fight this battle, but they are in an absolute minority.

Re. assumptions, you are right that in an opinion piece generalisations do creep in. Let me clarify the reasons for what I wrote:

[Example 1: ``...men fear that a visit to the doctor will reveal some flaw and in these times of Viagra ``when a pill can do the heavy lifting for you``, they couldn`t care less.`` This sentence not only assumes a common flaw in men but also tacks on the Viagra comment which I really did not see adding anything to the condom discussion.]

I was discussing the male fear about penile dysfunction and therefore their hesitation anyway about visiting a doc to verify problems, including diseases; I mentioned Viagra in the context of it being able to help a man perform and therefore boosting his ego and reducing his need to go for a check-up for any ailment he may suffer from.

[Example 2: ``I think in the deep recesses of their minds, men still believe that there is a chance, a small possibility, that they could have created life instead.`` Again, an assumption stated as immutable fact.]

Perhaps I meet the wrong kind of men (and other women who meet the wrong kind of men). One such person was given to boasting that he was sure he had many bastards floating around in the world. As a sweeping statement, it does not qualify as immutable fact, but I did start out by saying ``I think`` :)

[the bottomline is that the responsibility for preventing disease and pregnancy should be equally shared between men and women.]

I do believe that if a woman discovers she already has some genital disease, even if it is a mere infection, she should inform her partner. This is a must.

Re. pregnancy, let me give you the flip side. There are women who quietly start taking the pill because they do not want to get pregnant even though as a couple there has been no discussion about not planning to start a family. I think it is sad that such an important issue cannot be discussed by two people who share intimacy.

Then there is the celebrated case of a media couple, not young, who lived together. She told him she was on the pill, but one fine day decided to stop; she got regnant; they had parted ways, but everyone knew whose baby it was; he was already in another relationship, but accepted the child, now a young adult.

I think equality too has ``different approaches``, and I am not being facetious.

Re. the sexing up of the condom from the Nirodh days is so true. Foad_Shah has wondered how there is any sexiness...one has to see the Kama Sutra ads and I think there was one of another brand on Indian TV which was like a B-grade film, with clothes dropping etc...Besides, the condoms themselves have changed, what with different varieties.

Thanks for your kind words. And it is always a pleasure to interact in a manner that questions and probes...

Jawahara,

excellent analysis of a thought provoking article. Agree with you 100%.

Wondering why you think not using a condom is an egoistic thing?? It’s for my safety, who knows what a girl is carrying with her? With whom she slept before. It’s like part of attire for those who are in game (At least here in North America).
Second, what you think pleasure is not mutual? Is this only “men” who is enjoying it? If pleasure is mutual then safety is mutual as well, and both men and women is equally responsible for that.

Interesting article, Farzana, and well written as always. I really like the writing style and the topic under discussion. The condom makeover-- utilitarian to sexy (the Kamasutra ads for instance)-- is really quite apparent. Especially since from my childhood I remember the Nirodh ads, where the only good thing about them was they were ``sirf pacchis paisa.`` How far have we come? :-)

However, the article also underscore some existing questions for me, minor quibbles perhaps.

Obviously both men and women need to be responsible for their own protection. It almost seemed as if men are just carriers of infection (HIV and others) while women are the receptacles. Not only does that underscore the stereotype of women being mute receptacles it also does not take into account that men too are at risk.

Second, in this day and age, chivalry be damned, if you are a sexually active woman (or man for that matter) you are responsible for yourself and that includes protection. If you want to have sex but you don`t want the threat of disease foreshadowing you, you should carry your own protection. There are increasing numbers of women who carry condoms just in case the guy plays dumb and says he does not have it and can they ``do it anyway.`` And if the man says No to this the woman should say No to sex. Simple as that!

I know that this is an opinion piece and like all opinion pieces (my own included) there are too many assumptions about statements that need to be actual verifiable facts. Example 1: ``...men fear that a visit to the doctor will reveal some flaw and in these times of Viagra “when a pill can do the heavy lifting for you”, they couldn’t care less.`` This sentence not only assumes a common flaw in men but also tacks on the Viagra comment which I really did not see adding anything to the condom discussion.

Example 2: ``I think in the deep recesses of their minds, men still believe that there is a chance, a small possibility, that they could have created life instead.`` Again, an assumption stated as immutable fact.

The control over their reproductive rights (including for lack of a better term, recreational sex) was a hard won battle for some women and is ongoing for others. In fact, it was the appearance of the pill that started the sexual liberation of women in the US. With this freedom comes the responsibility for our protection and it is a burden most women are happy to bear. Why should a woman have to rely on a man for her protection? That smacks too much of victimhood to me and makes me uncomfortable.

Also, as far as I am concerned if stroking the male ego makes men more willing to wear condoms, what`s the harm? As a woman and a feminist I want some things in life (and have seen the progress in my own lifetime) to stroke my ego or pander to me as a woman. As long as it achieves the desired result I really don`t care. Men and women are different and need different approaches.

I guess the bottomline is that the responsibility for preventing disease and pregnancy should be equally shared between men and women.

Thanks Farzana, for a thought-provoking article as always.

The article was written in a pretty straight forward way and that is its very quality. However i disagree with a few of the points that you have illustrated in the article.

You wrote that :``The glamourisation of the condom is a move in this direction - to give the man the reassurance that he is going on an adventure trip. ``

I have yet to encounter the so called glamouraisation of the condom. Most people understand it as a safety procedure against unwanted preganancy, Std`s and ofcourse Aids. There is no glamour behind it to feed the male ego.

For instance, take the recent Durex advertisement. The 1 minute advert has a simple slogan, ``For a hundred million reasons.`` There was no show of dolled up females or hot males hitting at each other. it was a simple direct punch line with no sexual connotations. (Correct me if i am wrong)

Another Indian advertisement showed two lower middle class males deciding to go for a night out in the red light areas. The advertisement centres on a conversation between the two males, where one friend convinces another to buy a condom to guard himself and others against aids. I still did not seea glamourisation of the condom there.

A Pakistani condom advertisement on the other hand, shows two spouses walking on the beach holding hands. What is there in this advertisement to feed the male ego and not the female ego??

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Further i also believe that a female does not become a ``tease``( like u wrote in ur post) if she refuses to go on in the absence of a condom. That is her decision and she should stand by it. If the man involved is ignorant and chauvinistic enough to deny her this simple security, then she should not go ahead with him, simply on the pretext of being called a tease. that is hardly a valid reason.

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On a lighter note, though, The movie , ``Phir Milain ge`` is a rip off of the outstanding holly wood movie, Philadelphia. But, never the less both are good, and must see movies.

I am reading a novel ``Oryx and Crake`` where they have solved the sex problem - genetically modified individuals, women get into heat once every couple of years, and their buttuks turn bright blue. Males spot blue buttuks and get sexually aroused. Female chooses 4 males, rejected males immediately lose passion (``de-aroused``??) and continue with whatever they were doing before they spotted blue buttuks. 4 males do their thingie until woman is impregnated. Woman immediately loses blue buttuks, and males immediately get ``de-aroused`` (regardless of not they have had a go at the woman).

Thus, there are no rapes in that society, and also no sexual jealousies, frustrations, rejections.

All this is the result of genetically modified behavior.

The book was written by a woman (that figures!!) Why am I reading the book? Dont ask.

[One point to consider is that often STDs are transmitted by obtaining sanitary napkins from unreliable Indian tourists in restrooms at public locations, such as Lahore Airport.]

Thank you for sharing your personal experience. Probably, you should also bring it up with the airport authorities.

Zahra,
``I am working on a project that revolves around Genital Herpes (GH) – one of the most common STDs in this part of the world. It`s a scary world out there if you take it on its face value. I completely agree that awareness ought to exist. Often times, women are more on the ignorant side. ``

Some very applicable advice and kudos on ``equal`` reponsibility for the consequences of copulation. One point to consider is that often STDs are transmitted by obtaining sanitary napkins from unreliable Indian tourists in restrooms at public locations, such as Lahore Airport.

Farzana,
``2. Why can`t women just say NO? Why should they? This amounts to seeing women as objects and not as sexual beings who might want to do it too. ``
Right on! You are getting to be my kind of woman. Too many women see sex as something they ``give`` to men and therefore deserve something back in return. I like your idea of equal participation, equal right to enjoyment, and equal responsibility for consequences. Thanks,

Thanks for reading and some for chuckling too...and Umer, you cannot deny me a meal only because of an article. If you promise to thaw it well and it looks and tastes just right, then I promise not to dissect ``the evolutionary processes working behind the round shape of a frozen pea``. On second thought, I did say on some board that peas were gay...and soysauce, ``Flavored condoms? Must be the product of the fervid imagination of a female somewhere!`` What was it that Marie Antoinette said??? :)

All right, let us get to some serious questions raised, and a special thanks to Zahra, Amit and MQMPower for their thoughts on the subject.

1. Why must the onus of safe sex only be on the men; if we live in times of equality, why can women not take equal responsibility?

The female condom is a recent innovation and still a Western concept. From what I hear, it is not that simple a process...and I can be quite certain that men will soon be complaining about it. Also, it does not give any power to the woman, just makes her life more cumbersome.

Re. responsibility, there are no other means, if safety is what we are talking about. (Avoiding pregnancy is another issue, though pills do have side-effects.) What is a woman supposed to do? Ask the guy for his blood report? Check on his past (and manage to get the TRUTH out of HIM??)

2. Why can`t women just say NO?

Why should they? This amounts to seeing women as objects and not as sexual beings who might want to do it too. And if, after the situation has gone out of control, a woman suddenly gets these fear attacks and decides to hold back, what do you think she will be called? A tease. Among several other things.

Why can`t a man not just use a simple thing instead?

3. Does this reek of an anti-male bias?

Whatever happened to the confident male who did not need validation for his potency from anyone? Can`t he flash his condom together with his smile and make life easier for both, the woman and himself?

[#17 by kaurasach: FYI, many `feminists` (60s 70s) who did and wrote what you are doing today, found it to be fallacy, and now blame (rightly) themselves and women, propaganda and leftists for the misery.]

Some of those women began to regret because when they wrote about it, feminism as it is understood today was in its nascent stage...like with all new movements, enthusiasm over-rode practical considerations. This also happened to be the time of flower-power and free sex, so they became victims of their own ideology. They mostly blamed themselves on hindsight because they lost out on precious years of what has been deemed to be productive activity -- producing babies and nursing them.

Today`s woman does not need to burn her bar; she may spend a fortune on a jiggly one or just not wear it. We are fortunate that all the dirty work has been done for us, they turned the tide for us....now if only the women then had also turned men on their heads...er...whatever...

An interesting subject.
Especially, I am amused to read the long range of functions it can fulfill [and already fulfilling in our part of the world]. Some of them were really new to me. Anyways some short stories:

What are you doing
Late one night, little Johnny woke up to the some loud noises coming from his parents` bedroom. He got out of bed and walked down the hall towards his parents room. Before he made it to the end of the hall, the noises had ceased and the bathroom light had gone on..
Little Johnny walked into the bathroom and saw his father removing a used condom..
``Daddy, what are you doing?`` asked little Johnny..
His father looked around nervously wondering what he could tell his son..
I, um, I`m just checking out the bathroom for mice.`` Replied his father..
Johnny looked at his father with a gaze of confusion and said,
``Well, what are you doing? Fuc king them?``

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Men`s Ages:
1. Between the ages of 18 and 32...Tri-weekly.
2. Between the ages of 32 and 50...Try, weekly.
3. Over 50...Try, weakly.

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Little Johnny was sitting in class doing math problems when his teacher picked him to answer a question..
``Johnny, if there were five birds sitting on a fence and you shot one with your gun, how many would be left ?``
``None.``, replied Johnny. ```cause the rest would fly away.``
``Well, the answer is four,`` said the teacher. ``But I like the way you are thinking.``
Little Johnny said, ``I have a question for you now. If there were three women eating ice cream cones in a shop, one licking her cone, the second biting her cone, and the third one sucking her cone, which one is married?
Well,`` said the teacher nervously, ``I guess the one sucking the cone?``
``No,`` said Little Johnny, ``the one with the wedding ring on her finger. But I like the way you are thinking..

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Harassment
Teacher: Use ``harassment`` in a sentence..
Johnny: Her mouth said `no`, but her ass meant `yes`..