A Fobby Love Story

An interesting perspective. Although, I recommend not making wide generalities. Speaking in specific terms is more safe before one is sorry. I can imagine the reaction to the amount of criticizm the author has received on things ranging from his understanding of people to his the very core principles of his life.

If I were in the author`s shoes, I would restric the story to my own situation and not make accusations to the majority.

A great narration. One the best I have read so far in the Chowk (may be because I am new here).
I agree with the writer. I would like to add that an ABCD/EBCD once, an ABCD/EBCD forever. EBCD is the European version.
They talk of relationship but they dont believe in one. In fact these girls are reading a potential husband the moment they come across a guy. Its as if they are our desi girls and their Moms combined together and personfied as one.

Well.. from the article it looks like rejection has hurt the author`s ego quite a bit, and due to it, he is lashing out at the so called ``ABCD`` culture.

You like a girl in your school or `mohalla`, get her number through directories or her friends, initiates it by `lets be friends`, and soon it trascends into love, pure eastern one love for life.

It really does not quite work that way, even back home. I don`t think author has ever been in a serious relationship (yes, a common word back home). I think author is really young and as he matures, he will find out that every relationship is always much more complex and intricate (irrespective of whether it was formed in Hollywood or bollywood) than one initially thinks.

Quote (I`ve interacted with a number of girls here and they just can`t laugh at themself; to them it`s always a matter of respect and insult. Why?? Can`t you girls cool down a litle, light up a little and for heaven`s sake spare the attitude) Unquote

WHAT are you talking about? I wish you would stop generalizing about us ABCD`s and CBCD`s and EBCD`s etc etc The point is We are CD`s. Regardless of whether we are born in Pakistan, brought up in a Muhalla in Gulshan-e-Iqbal or Sea View. Or raised abroad. I agree with Jiyakhan to a certain extent. I do not think all pakistani kids back home behave in this manner but you cannot deny the craziness that is now part of their lives. I feel more desi when I go back and hang out with these people. They are like us only 100 times worse. They are promiscious like its going out of style. Drugs sex and alcohol are a regular part of their partying lifestyle. Gone are the days of peeking into windows to catch a glimpse of the love of your life, crank calling her at odd hours and playing a love song really loud just so she can hear you. Its more like, meet at a the most dimly lit cafe and random making out time in Pakistan. People and especially Mothers who belive they can go back to pakistan to find `shareef` ``gharayloo`` desi brides for their US graduate Jaan kay tukray are gravely mistaken. Coz there is`nt much sharafat laft back home either. Just do with what you got and Pray for the best. Otherwise, there is always divorce. That too is now common at the drop of a hat.

Dear Jiyaa,
I am not the author of that story and my intentions are not there to let any culture or population down. I dont know where you went in Pakistan and whom you saw doing those shameful things but I am sure about one thing that they are very few in no. When we talk in general we dont talk about individuals and 5-10 % of people on either extremes, we talk about the median 80% population and after spending a lot of time in Pakistan as well as in Atlantic Region I can say that the average lot is still far better in Pakistan. But Still I believe all five fingers are not alike as I ve seen very well groomed kids in UK n US. They guys n gals in pakistan who ve lost their direction are those who are ashamed of being pakistanis and muslims but they are very limited in no. Inn the endI strictly regret and condem terms like ABCDs and freshies as these sort of things give hatred not fun. I am sorry if I was a bit harsh. If any one has any problems with my comments, they are most welcome to email me directly at qureshi27@hotmail.com.
Regards
Dr Salman Qureshi
Oxford England

Very interesting, I love how we Abcd`s or well in my case Canadian, are put down. I go to Pakistan every year, and honestly, I was quite naive thinking we really are forward, until I saw it for myself. Guys or Girls living in Pakistan are not as innocent as you`ve put it in your article! Infact, i have meet many girls and guys living in a middle upper class family, who drink, smoke up or have sexual relationship with either of the sexes and its considered quite normal! When did you write this post back in 1970s??? Cuz in 2005 i think it doesnt matter where you live, Pakistani guys and girls all over the world (not all but who chose too) do all those things. Stop putting us down, while every girl in Pakistan looks as if she couldn’t afford enough cloth for her Kameez! for crying out loud give us a break. ppl make those Pakistani girls sound like their innocent and have never even spoken to a guy, while their soo bloody cunning and pathetic (most at least) The amount of Pakistani guys and girls I saw in Pakistan Drunk/High/ Half naked making out, was ridiculous! I think the only difference is that, its quite open here and it is getting to that point in most cities in paki, it already is quite open in lahore, Islamabad and Karachi. Maybe you’re from a village? And as far as religion is concerned, at least here, I haven’t meet a single person who doesn’t believe in Allah (Muslims) but in Pakistan, I meet a few people who didn’t and questioned out religion. So please don’t put us down, you should first talk about the things and HYPOCRIZE that happens in Pakistan. I don’t mean to be rude, but its just not fair. And thx for being sexist! You forget the fobby guys who come from Pakistan and start drinking like their Irish and start dating GORIS lol

I don`t know a single muslim ABCD girl that doesn`t know ``a word of namaz``. I know a few guys however........Anyways, cute article, though.

haha i dont know if this story is real or not, if it is maybe its exaggerated hahah but in any case it made me laugh...hahah good story

I`m not a five times nimazi but to meet a muslim girl who doesn`t know a word of nimaz was the shock of my life. This is one of the most absurd thi8ngs ever written.If you are so in love with ``a girl back home``as you put it,then just marry her.Why are you a)generalising that all desi girls are liberal,gibberish gibberish b)putiing them down You know what if you are so bent upon chaste things in your backyard,then try to act like one too.It will serve you no good confusing yourself between the two worlds.And as you said about,it got my laughing till a long time.Namz like the rest of things religious can not be dropped to accomodate your other duties.It`s either you pray or you don`t.

I agree with you. This thing has been happening with all the girls in USA. This is the fault of the parents to teach their kids about the vaules but we can not blame parents in long run. One day or the other kids have to make their own choices.

Besides girls, guys are also not that good in USA. They are not sincere in relationships either. On the other hand, It is very difficult to find good girl and good guy in this world, either it is pakistan or USA. I have seen many pakistani guys who are damn bad as well as girls.

We should pray to God to give us the right person in our life. No matter how much we try to judge a person we can not read what is inside someone`s heart.

hi there,
wel i realy likd this peice of writing.this is really true that now the so called GENRATION NEXT has lost all the values which are to b there.wel this is really sad to see that there can thses kind of things happenin .this is not the case with girls its with boys as well. there are gaps between the emotions of ppl abroad n here back home .wel i have a first hand experience but not of this type as u had .......but ya i can say tht wat it important to us may not be for them .those small small happy moments that we cherish can be a `yak` thing for them.so this is the case
the westernism that looks so cool to us is actly really not at all cool.......

hi there,
wel i realy likd this peice of writing.this is really true that now the so called GENRATION NEXT has lost all the values which are to b there.wel this is really sad to see that there can thses kind of things happenin .this is not the case with girls its with boys as well. there are gaps between the emotions of ppl abroad n here back home .wel i have a first hand experience but not of this type as u had .......but ya i can say tht wat it important to us may not be for them .those small small happy moments that we cherish can be a `yak` thing for them.so this is the case
the westernism that looks so cool to us is actly really not at all cool.......

Aleph Null,

I also know of a few Indian marriages that were marked by abuse of the wife-roughly the same prop of Pakistani marriages-in couples of varying ethnicities in India and Pakistan and of the prof. class-both spouses.

Aleph Null,

I`m certainly not saying that all FOBS are monolithically male chauvinists and abusive. I will say that the entry of women into professional spheres, adeptness in western cultural and societal institutions, growing economic clout, political engagement and increasing access to choice of reproduction rights, education, political orientation and individual development upset traditional gender roles....I also want to restate my idea of gender equity being ``western``....clearly, there are desis who dont subscribe to traditional gender roles...my comments were directed at ``traditional desi culture adherents``.

I also appreciate your critique of alterity analysis-but that does not mean that we should ignore conflicts that run along gender role expectations....

Raw_Dust #62

Insecure possessiveness about ‘your’ women – particularly in conditions of scarcity – is a condition I understand at a gut level and readily acknowledge. It’s probably a human cultural universal. It doesn’t require a trans-cultural situation to set it off – it’s quite enough that the business of finding a partner is usually a zero-sum game.

I was more interested in a quite different assertion (or suggestion) – that FOB men from ‘South Asia’ might be (especially) intimidated by accomplished, professionally qualified or successful women (of whatever background). This is an issue distinct from possessiveness triggered by scarcity or sexual jealousy. I’d have held my peace if Saminasha had referred only to Pakistanis, of whom I know too few to comment with any authority. Her suggested stereotype just doesn’t fit what I’ve seen of the majority of my male (Indian) classmates. These were people with impressive qualifications, plentiful energy and initiative, very good future prospects. When the time came for them to settle down, many of them spent considerable time and effort – sometimes for years - trying to locate partners with qualifications resembling their own. A small fraction succeeded; many of the others eventually had to settle for spouses who were far from being their equals in intelligence or qualifications or accomplishments. They may be content wth what they have or at any rate resigned to their fate. In my opinion many of these men might have had a far easier time if they’d not idealised marriage as an equal relationship, and aimed from the very beginning for wives who were not their peers. Just my cynical and very un-PC anecdotally-based opinion.

Saminasha #58

{{I also have witnessed first hand, some disasterous and abusive marriages among abcds and fobs. Usually they run along the lines of the husband intimidated by his abcd wife who is a citizen, is comfortable in being able to politically, economically, socially active. … In these cases, the husband usually becomes insufferably religious in order to salve a bruised ego, insists his wife clean and cook or accept his reign in some way or another...all in the name of ``authenticity``...and these situations occur often among prof women.}}

and hamdim #59:

Multiple instances of the ‘usual’ syndrome Saminasha described may very well exist –we are after all talking of a very large base population here. It is not clear that it’s the dominant syndrome. I’ve heard at second hand of a calamitous and ultimately failed marriage between a FOB Indian woman and a Canadian-bred man, where the woman was expected to cook, clean and touch her inlaws’ feet while simultaneously working towards an MD. Does that sound plausible? There are lots of variables involved here – it’s not clear whether FOB-ness or being of male persuasion or the involvement of people from a particular generational cohort is the primary culprit. There is also the effect of the part of the subcontinent one comes from – something that the ‘South Asian’ label sweeps under the carpet. Incidentally there is a known tendency for each generation of FOB immigrants from the subcontinent to display attitudes frozen in a time capsule corresponding to their date of immigration, while the social environment of the mother country is in rapid flux. The full range of consequences of this effect may not be widely recognized.

I also know of a few apparently happy - so far – ABD-FOB marriages, in both directions – as well as a large number of other marriages of all kinds with various long-term outcomes. All anecdotal.

I’ve absolutely no objection to people using stereotypes based on their anecdotal experience – I do it myself. A stereotype – such as ‘male chauvinistic insecure FOB’ - is a working hypothesis used to impose a semblance of comprehensible order on a very messy set of phenomena. Likewise with explanatory models – the beginnings of theories – sucb as ‘traditional patriarchy’. But the reality out there may be more complex than can be described by a single stereotype or accounted for by a single explanatory model. I could imagine a ‘unimodal’ universe where all instances cluster, to varying degrees, around one dominant stereotype, generated by a single explanatory model. I could just as well conceive of a ‘multimodal’ universe where there is more than one widespread stereotype and there are distinct clusters around those stereotypes without much of a continuum between them. One cannot claim that a particular stereotype is representative or dominant without a rigorous study, and any claims made in its absence remain anecdotal.

I apologise for the insufferable pedantry of the stuff above – I’m trying to convey my sense of the messiness of the world out there and the difficulty of making sense of it from purely anecdotal experience.

Incidentally, I’ve lost count of the number of times hamidm has exclaimed “Gosh, the woman is smart!” or words to that effect in reference to Mrs hamidm. I rather doubt he resents or is intimidated by the smartness – he’s more likely to be rather pleased by it. There’s another counterexample to the insecure FOB stereotype for you.