The Worst Curse in the World

Dear Author, I am happy for you and your little sister for having such good fun researching and writing the article. We have lots of pseudo-analysts on this forum and most of them, like you, do not see the whole picture, but I would give you the cake for being so damn funny.

However, I wish you guys had taken some trouble and presented the matter in a “less fun to read” manner. Don’t misunderstand me. I have no sympathies with those jehadies and I have no personal grudge against any of the “infidels”, including you.

You have overlooked that occupation, terror, selective democracy, dictatorship, gifting of land belonging to one people to another people, and imperialism create and foster “jehadies”. Please read a little more history before your next intellectual effort.

Let us please think and talk about how can we give people their birthrights. If we end repression and foreign occupation, and if “democratic and civilized nations” stop promoting dictatorship upon poor people and nations, the jehadies will go away. True, a few fanatics will remain there, as they have throughout the history of mankind. But if there is justice and equality they will loose their fan following. And that would, my dear analyst and his sister, be the end of jehadies and your funny fear of them.

Do you know that today’s villains were heroes just a few years back.

Let us be constructive. Let us not ridicule Just Casuse(s) in the name of ridiculing jehadies. Let us not even ridicule jehadies. Let us think about them in a positive way and let us eradicate them with pure and simple logical steps that we all know must be taken.

Dear Author, I am happy for you and your little sister for having such good fun researching and writing the article. We have lots of pseudo-analysts on this forum and most of them, like you, do not see the whole picture, but I would give you the cake for being so damn funny.

However, I wish you guys had taken some trouble and presented the matter in a “less fun to read” manner. Don’t misunderstand me. I have no sympathies with those jehadies and I have no personal grudge against any of the “infidels”, including you.

You have overlooked that occupation, terror, selective democracy, dictatorship, gifting of land belonging to one people to another people, and imperialism create and foster “jehadies”. Please read a little more history before your next intellectual effort.

Let us please think and talk about how can we give people their birthrights. If we end repression and foreign occupation, and if “democratic and civilized nations” stop promoting dictatorship upon poor people and nations, the jehadies will go away. True, a few fanatics will remain there, as they have throughout the history of mankind. But if there is justice and equality they will loose their fan following. And that would, my dear analyst and his sister, be the end of jehadies and your funny fear of them.

Do you know that today’s villains were heroes just a few heroes back.

Let us be constructive. Let us not ridicule Just Casuse(s) in the name of ridiculing jehadies. Let us not even ridicule jehadies. Let us think about them in a positive way and let us eradicate them with pure and simple logical steps that we all know must be taken.

Dear Author, I am happy for you and your little sister for having such good fun researching and writing the article. We have lots of pseudo-analysts on this forum and most of them, like you, do not see the whole picture, but I would give you the cake for being so damn funny.

However, I wish you guys had taken some trouble and presented the matter in a “less fun to read” manner. Don’t misunderstand me. I have no sympathies with those jehadies and I have no personal grudge against any of the “infidels”, including you.

You have overlooked that occupation, terror, selective democracy, dictatorship, gifting of land belonging to one people to another people, and imperialism create and foster “jehadies”. Please read a little more history before your next intellectual effort.

Let us please think and talk about how can we give people their birthrights. If we end repression and foreign occupation, and if “democratic and civilized nations” stop promoting dictatorship upon poor people and nations, the jehadies will go away. True, a few fanatics will remain there, as they have throughout the history of mankind. But if there is justice and equality they will loose their fan following. And that would, my dear analyst and his sister, be the end of jehadies and your funny fear of them.

Do you know that today’s villains were heroes just a few heroes back.

Let us be constructive. Let us not ridicule Just Casuse(s) in the name of ridiculing jehadies. Let us not even ridicule jehadies. Let us think about them in a positive way and let us eradicate them with pure and simple logical steps that we all know must be taken.

Re: # 4

hahahahahahahhahahahahaha!!!!
hahahahahhahahahahahh!!!!
hahahahahahah!!!!

Dear author,
Just as you mentioned, there are those who wish to convert the entire world to liking their form of poison and then there are those with specific, short term demands. It confuses the issue to equate one with the other just as it would to equate neocons with those desiring to protect their way of living WITHOUT going to war with others.
The proper equation would be George Bush = Osma except the former is the head of an ultra-organized structure.
Anyway, coming to Saudia, it`s my understanding that Osama and other Saudi malcontents see their country as occupied by an infidel army, the operative word here being, pay attention please, not cooks, cleaners, babysitters or grocers, but army. You do see th difference, don`t you?

#35 by rustom on August 23, 2005 2:05pm PT


are you implying that the iraqis have more of a right to say ``terrorism is bad...but``


For starters: I`m against terrorism...and the London bombing was terrorism...

Most muslims think the London bombings were because of Iraq...If the bombers had been Iraqis instead of brit-paki raised in the lap of luxury(relative to most people in the muslims world), the people saying that might have had a point...


i think those who blew themselves up (wherever, not just in london) do it because they feel an affinity with their ``oppressed`` co religionists. solidarity based not on nationality, but on religion. whats the difference? if one is ok, why not the other?


Not many indian hindus blowing themselves up for the tamil sri lankans...not many catholic spaniards blowing themselves up in London to express solidarity with their catholic irish brethren...

That problem is unique to muslims....

Re: # 34
hi arjun,
im a non muslim and i certainly dont find home-grown suicide bombers ``ridiculous``. alarming, drastically misled, even brainwashed, yes.

you said``If the bombers had been Iraqis, it might have been a different thing ``

an interesting point, though im not sure you thought about it.

are you implying that the iraqis have more of a right to say ``terrorism is bad...but``. maybe they do. in which case why not others? just because their passport was different, i think those who blew themselves up (wherever, not just in london) do it because they feel an affinity with their ``oppressed`` co religionists. solidarity based not on nationality, but on religion. whats the difference? if one is ok, why not the other?

what turned this feeling of affinity into suicide is another question. i suppose its a combination of misleading religious promises of the rewards of martyrdom, religiously-induced hatred for western values, frustration with perceived double standards in politics, maybe some social problems too (this is certainly true in Palestine. in Leeds maybe too?)

#33 by rustom on August 23, 2005 1:10pm PT


its ridiculous.


Most non-muslims find the idea of british-born and raised Pakistanis blowing themselves up for the war in Iraq ridiculous....If the bombers had been Iraqis, it might have been a different thing

Re: # 29
what i was trying to say was not to try to understand the terrorists themselves and their more crazy demands which have little or no support from anyone - i agree - whats the point in trying to further understand their desire to reconquer spain!! its ridiculous.

rather, to try and understand the areas where they pick up support and sympathy from other muslims, which are perhaps less clear-cut than invading poor spain ! if these areas were looked at a little more, most OBL partial sympathisers, (YES terrorism is wrong, BUT is it worse than chechnya etc), these ``yes..but`` people would no longer have any ``buts``, and al queda would be overnight reduced to mere also-rans, rather than their current position in the limelight.

will this happen? i doubt it. polititians in the west seem dead set on upping the stakes in order to look ``tough`` on terrorism (afghanistan..iraq...guantanamo...threatening to use force on Iran last week, etc), which simply serves to further widen the divide.

in england, the same thing. the transport police have admitted they will be profiling non-white people in stop and search operations. the police have their disastrous shoot-to-kill policy and are even now trying to cover up certain aspects of the Menezes shooting. mosques were burnt and Norman f###ing Tebit is going on about his ``cricket test`` for immigrants (ie do they support England or Pakistan in cricket matches!). instead of isolating the terrorists, we re handing them fodder by creating more ``buts`` for the non-fundementalist muslim majority to sypathise with.

#31 by Dalit

HeHeHeHe (chemically speaking) right back to you, pal

#29

asked for meat ... you are giving me five days old rotten veggies….heheheheh… my post was: how it is the worst curse in world? And… hehehehe…you tell me stories. Remember the title of article “the worst curse in the world”….heheheh... you can’t tap dance out of it….hehehe... I think you don’t have a clue about what you wrote…heheheh… article and your posts…hehehe…mere fluff to express your desire to pile on the Muslims…hehehehe

So where is the beef….hehehehe….

#23
“Al queada is to Islamic fundamentalists like yoga is to the rest of the world...”

super slueth gets it…hehehe… bad analogy….hehehe…yoga…peace, love, harmony and calm…hehehe….alqueeda rotten, ugly, and yellowish teeth of fundamentalists….looks menacing…… but no bite.. hehehe… broken up….hehehehe…

#19

Notsowise…heheheh…
“Do we have any legislation that some citizens of this country are denied some rights/opportunities because they belong to Islam.”

Hehehehe…less than two percent employment…heheheh… attacks on places of worship…hehehe... denied economic opportunities…heheheh frequent small and large scale armed attacks… Gujarat…heheheh…mumbai…many more….what do you call that……heheheheh…

hindu admiration….hehehehe

#20
“If Dalits haven`t picked up arms against Hindu exploitation, doesn`t it mean they haven`t been exploited to the extent whiners like you project?”

Muslims ruled India…heheheh…750 year(?)....hindu did not pick arms….British 200 years….indians did not pick up arms…did not mean that they could not…hehehe or they were not exploited….heheheh…just the struggle never reached that point….heheheheh…

28, arjun thank you

#18 by Dalit

Thank you for the comment. My point is that if Al-Qaeda and the assorted jehadi`s do get what they want, it may well be their downfall. Hence beware of what you wish for and this is the worst curse in the world. Hence I cannot comment on most of your following points.

While saying that, please note that terrorist groups have objectives, and to resolve them, we need to understand what they are demanding. Whether or not they can achieve them is a different argument, and if you ask OBL and his gang of merry men, they think it is and they are waging a terrorist campaign to achieve it. Please do not confuse terrorist campaigns versus standard war campaigns hence the fact that they can only commit atrocities very infrequently is besides the point. Thank you also for suggesting to refer to the library, I will indeed endeavour to do so. I am also slightly puzzled to your comment on the caste system, can you please explain?

#21 by hindvi

Kings College London

#27 by rustom

Thank you for your comments. Let me try to explain. The listing of their objectives itself is key to understanding. For example, their desire to take back Spain and India, or at least go back to ruling them. History is pretty clear about the re-conquista and British Rule. It is also pretty clear on why these jehadi`s will feel bad and want to undertake terrorism to get back to that golden age. I am not that sure whether we need more understanding than that level. It is also given that sympathy with the objectives of Al-Qaeda isn`t part of my thesis. That evaporated very rapidly after reading / researching terrorism and travelling on the London underground post 7/7. Now to return to your argument that we have to understand their objectives and remove injustices. Yes, I fully agree. But is terrorism indeed the way forward? No. As I mentioned in a previous column on chowk, it means that one has to work within the political framework. Violence as a means is a strict no no. If you wish to see the essay in a different framework, look at it as a counter - terror paper rather than a policy paper which is oriented towards understanding their ``root causes``. :)

#27 by rustom on August 23, 2005 8:44am PT


The ``Them and Us`` perception?


The ``us`` is the people who say ``9/11 was a terrible thing...``
The them is the people who say ``9/11 was a terrible thing BUT...`` and then tack on their pet Islamist cause...
So people chose the side they are on...


This certainly exists, and there was unfortunately very little attempt in your article to ``understand`` and to ``empathise`` with those who may have a certain sympathy for aspects of alqaeda,


That`s because most of us don`t give a rats ass about why a majority of pakis support OBL..just like most people didn`t care why a majority of germans might have supported the nazis..

and very few people in the US had any patience for addressing the root cause of McVeigh`s bombing..jew-hater racist McVeigh killed a bunch of babies....needle for him...that`s all people really cared for....

Dear Mr Dasgupta

I was a little disapointed with your article. yet it started off so promisingly:

``If we have to defeat these terrorists, then we have to understand their objectives. Once we have understood their objectives (howsoever lurid and eye popping they may be), that makes us see their ideology in greater detail and then we are on our way to combat their pernicious influence over their sympathisers and turn the already committed terrorists. ``

Key to the above enlightened paragraph is the word ``understanding``. this is not a synonym for ``excusing``, ``justifying``, ``supporting`` etc. it is merely a way of trying to take on somebody else`s vision of that controversial concept named ``truth``, which nobody holds a monopoly of.

You then went on to give your sythesis of the jihadists` objectives, and to point out the numerous inconsistencies they contain. I saw little effort to ``understand``. I would guess there are very few muslims in the world who would adhere to the majority of binladin`s objectives. Occupying Spain? converting the whole world`s population to wahabi Islam? (the Quran itself talks about respecting other religions!) etc

So why then is there this increasing polarisation between the Islamic world and the West? The ``Them and Us`` perception? This certainly exists, and there was unfortunately very little attempt in your article to ``understand`` and to ``empathise`` with those who may have a certain sympathy for aspects of alqaeda, or who would condemn it in the same breath as they would condemn the West. I repeat, empathising and understanding is in NO way supporting and justifying.

As Mr Dalit correctly pointed out, al qaeda itself is relatively weak - it has only managed a handful of attacks since 2001. The real foe is the polarisation of opinions due to the increasing injustice and double standards PERCEIVED throughout the muslim world. If governments are to improve relations, then we need to examine the reasons behind this perception and to tackle any issues within OUR control which are provoking injustices(possibly Palestine, western support of tinpot dictators etc etc).

This action could only encourage the muslim ``world`` (excuse the generalisation - i realise there is a wide range of opinions within it!!) to examine more closely its own perceptions of international relations and to be more aware of its own double standards (the hero Saddam, who was responsible for many more muslim deaths than bush, far worse treatment of political prisoners in their regimes than in Guantanamo etc etc)

I realise my comments may seem idealistic, but hey!! thats what we are all here for isnt it?

#25 by wiseguyin on August 23, 2005 6:13am PT

Nope...Islamic fundamentalists...which is people who take this ummah thing way to seriously....