Whose Iqbal — Ours or Theirs? Technically, Iqbal is perhaps the best Urdu poet of the previous century along with Faiz. Politically, Iqbal evolved from an Indian nationalist to a pan-Islamist and Pakistanis should therefore feel happy if Indian muslims want share his legacy.

Whose Iqbal — Ours or Theirs? Has someone noticed how our Qadiani friend has avioded a simple question: ``What do Qadianis think of muslims who do not believe in the prophethood of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad?`` Hint: Choose from kafirs/infidels/heretics/misguided.

Also notice that he took offence when someone pointed to Mirza`s death in the latrine, but he himself doesnt mind making fun of Muslims` belief that Jesus is alive and has ascended to heaven. So much for the civil discourse.

Riots Reply #: 63 ana

[``Yearn all you want to for another Muhammad bin Qasim..for a Ghaznavi who ran roughshod and destroyed temples. If you haven`t evolved from what you yearn for, well...more`s the pity for you, and those like you. If you are indeed a Pakistani, then I as a non-Muslim Pakistani couldn`t really give a rat`s arse whether you hold us non-Muslims dearer or not``]

I agree that we should all pity deluded maulanas like Naqsbandi; but we should also pity YOU ana, and others like you who don`t give a ``rat`s arse`` to the feelings of a vast majority of Pakistanis. Qasim and Ghaznavi are our heroes whether you like it or not; and would remain so regardless of your insults.

[``we, non-Muslims are told we don`t belong in a country which has been our home for centuries.``]

This is an outright lie. Who told you that? Can you please share the details with us? Unless it was Ghauri or Ghaznavi in person... that I can understand.

[``But your applauding Asif`s invoking Ghaznavi can only mean one thing...you have no sharam left to feel.``]

The insults that you have hurled at Pakistani heros despite being a Pakistani shows that YOU have no sharam left.

Riots Indian muslims should learn from Palestinians. Only when you fight hard would the world respect you.... no one respects the victims. Notice Gen. Powell`s changed tone? Notice where is Gen. Zinni today?

Why Are We Killing Ourselves? Reply # 121 Shah

Your attitude is defeatist my friend.

[``In Kanpur b/c muslims faced RSS/Hindu mahasabha goons with weapons illegally ...SIMI is banned THROUGH OUT india``]

But the children of Kanpuri muslims are alive today, aren`t they? What is worse? Going to jail or watching your child burn to death? Remember, 17000 Gujrati Muslims were jailed under TADA, and they didn`t have any arms, did they? Now if they arm themselves maybe 34000 of them will get arrested under POTO, but their children will have a better chance of survival when BJP/VHP come looking next time.

[``You can only arm in India under severe punishment of life long jail e.g. Sanjay Dutt son of Nargis actress ,has been just suspect in posessing gun in 92 mumbai hindu -muslim riots is still under bail /probation in & out of jail.``]

There are only 2 ways that an arm bearing citizen (even second class, like Indian muslims) can be arrested and proscecuted. One, he is arrested while in possession (on his person) during a random search at some checkpoint. It would be stupid for an Indian to walk around with his weapon unless in the time of roits when he needs to defend himself. Two, if police conducts a raid based on intelligence information. You will see that as muslim localities increasingly arm themselves, the Hindu police will find it more and more difficult to go in to conduct raids, arrest people and recover arms. Ever heard about ``no-go`` areas in Karachi for example?

Subcontinental Chain Reaction Indian muslims should learn from palestinians. The world respects and cares for those who stand up to the aggressors and fight (hard) for their rights, and not those you play victims.

Here:

WASHINGTON (AP) - Secretary of State Colin Powell reproached Prime Minister Ariel Sharon on Wednesday for declaring war on the Palestinians and advised him ``to take a hard look at his policies.``

``If you declare war against the Palestinians and think you can solve the problem by seeing how many Palestinians can be killed — I don`t know if that leads you anywhere,`` Powell said.

The Palestinians are experiencing ``enormous difficulties,`` he said, unable to get to their jobs. And, he said, ``everybody is a second-class citizen, where you cannot go out for an evening walk`` because of fear of attack.

``I don`t know how the Palestinian area even continues to survive,`` (Rep. Dan ) Miller (R-Fla.) said. ``They`re treated as second-class citizens.``

full story at



http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20020307/ap_on_re_mi_ea/us_mideast_576&cid=535

Subcontinental Chain Reaction Reply # 27 veeresh

[Dear Karakoram . . . believe it or not, we have a Constitution in India which does not permit us to even think of eliminating people on the basis of religion]

You can recite your holy constitution by the graves of 210 muslims who were buried in Ahmadabad yesterday. I am sure it will give shanti to their departed souls.

[Why is it so difficult for Pakistanis to accept that India is a better place to live for Muslims of all sorts than is, say, Pakistan or even Saudia?]

This is just your opinion derived from the dark recesses of you hate filled brain. Check with Ehsan Jafri`s widow who is in the burns ward of Ahmadabad Municipal Hospital, she might not agree with you completely.

Indian (and Bangladeshi) muslims will give a limb to get a visit visa to Pakistan or Saudi, forget about ``living`` there. Personally, I wouldn`t even allow my dog Nehru to visit India (even though he is a Hindu).

Why Are We Killing Ourselves? #103 by hobbyty

beautiful post!!

Subcontinental Chain Reaction Why does chowk have to publish this pathetic piece of blatant Indian propaganda which is full of lies, speculations and innuendoes? (Musharraf not in control, Pak. Army in Gardez etc. etc.)

While carcasses of muslims are still smoldering in the streets and by lanes of Gujarat, Hindus have the time to worry about Pakistan and Musharraf?? Amazing!

Subcontinental Chain Reaction Reply # 27 veeresh

[Dear Karakoram . . . believe it or not, we have a Constitution in India which does not permit us to even think of eliminating people on the basis of religion]

You can recite your holy constitution by the graves of 210 muslims who were buried in Ahmadabad yesterday. I am sure it will give shanti to their departed souls.

[Why is it so difficult for Pakistanis to accept that India is a better place to live for Muslims of all sorts than is, say, Pakistan or even Saudia?]

This is just your opinion derived from the dark recesses of you hate filled brain. Check with Ehsan Jafri`s widow who is in the burns ward of Ahmadabad Municipal Hospital, she might not agree with you completely.

Indian (and Bangladeshi) muslims will give a limb to get a visit visa to Pakistan or Saudi, forget about ``living`` there. Personally, I wouldn`t even allow my dog Nehru to visit India (even though he is a Hindu).

Memories of December 6th Romair # 204:

[I have concluded that the Indian Muslims should give up on the idea of Babri Mosque.... I am afraid it is time for the Indian Muslims to carry out a strategic retreat]

Facists can never be appeased; appeasement only whets their appetite. And who can be worse facists than the likes of BJP, VHP, RSS etc. If Indian Muslims agree to give up Babri Mosque today, the facists will ask for the Mosque at Mathura tomorrow. You must know from their websites that there is a list of several hundred mosques which they think have been built over destroyed temples and must be demolished now. Where do you think if will end?

PS. Do you think Pakistan was possible if Indian Muslims would have stategically retreated after every 500 casualties?

PPS. Strategic retreat seems to be the strategic forte of Pakistan Army these days :-)) [Just kidding major saab].

Why Are We Killing Ourselves? harimau,

I salute you for speaking the truth. Whats going on in Gujarat is frontier justice pure and simple. The problem with Indian liberals who are cursing you is that they believe too much in their own rhetoric and lies, which I guess happens to most bleievers of fraudulent ideologies.

The bigger tragedy is that some in Indian minority communities also started believing in Indian democracy, Indian secularism, the tolerant nature of Hindu religion, equal enforcement of law and other such mumbo-jumbo making them more vulnerable at times like these. I suppose those unlucky enough to have lived with 80% burns have a clearer understanding of the Hindu mindset now.

Even more pathetic are Pakistanis like this old Canadian fart who has lectured us ad-infinitum on the superiority of Indian democracy and secularism and now blames ISI since the ugly face of his beloved is exposed.

Why Are We Killing Ourselves? harimau,

I salute you for speaking the truth. Whats going on in Gujarat is frontier justice pure and simple. The problem with Indian secularists and liberals who are cursing you is that they believe too much in their own rhetoric and lies, which I guess happens to most bleievers of fraudulent ideologies.

The bigger tragedy is that some in Indian minority communities also started believing in Indian democracy, Indian secularism, the tolerant nature of Hindu religion, equal enforcement of law and other such mumbo-jumbo making them more vulnerable at times like these. I suppose those unlucky enough to have lived with 80% burns have a clearer understanding of the Hindu mindset now.

Even more pathetic are Pakistanis like this old Canadian fart who has lectured us ad-infinitum on the superiority of Indian democracy and secularism and now blames ISI since the ugly face of his beloved is exposed.

Memories of December 6th Whats wrong with the Hindu Punjabis? I thought all you guys wanted was to exchange Gurdass Mann audios with SameerJB?

Religious structures damaged in Haryana, Punjab.

http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/holnus/01011803.htm

Memories of December 6th ACP must be a pretty high ranking officer? A member of the elite civil services? Attended the best educational institutions in India? Trained in the ethos of secularism? Sworn to protect the secular constitution of India?

Well, read this:

[The most shocking case was evident at Hatkeshwar Circle. Three houses in a row were in flames and 100 feet away, policemen, including an ACP rank officer, sat in chairs taken out from a nearby shop. When asked, one of them said: ‘‘Let them do something also. After all, so many people were killed in Godhra.’’ Said DCP (Zone-V), R J Savani, under whom the area falls: ‘‘How many places can I attend to at a time?’’]

Well said DCP Savani, well done unnamed ACP. ``Let them do something also.`` Bravo!

Good Luck Indian Muslims, you are in safe hands indeed. Please rest assured that ten years from now, there will be a commission and an inquiry like the toothless Srikrishna Commission so that secular Indians like sadna and dost-mittar can proudly beat their chests and prove the superiority of Indian secularism to us unwashed Pakistanis.

Also rest assured that ten years from now Pandey and Savani will walk proudly in Ahmadabad, like Tayagi does in Bombay.... unless you are taking notes and can do something about it.

Memories of December 6th Read about the tragic last few hours of a muslim ex MP in Ahmadabad, the most industrialized city in the Secular Hindu republic of India.

An ex-MP’s murder tells the tale: Before he and family were killed, Jafri was on phone for 6 hrs

http://www.indian-express.com/ie20020301/top3.html

CHOWK READERS,

Please note that India is huge country where a few hundred MPs represent 1 billion people, making an ex-MP a somewhat important person as compared with an average citizen.

Apparently, Ehsan Jafri started calling police and other state and federal officials and politicians for help when peace loving secular Hindus laid seige to his house, and kept on calling for 6 hours... right upto the time when he was burnt to death with 38 other muslims including 10 children. Commissioner of Ahmadabad Police, P.C. Pandey termed this an ``unfortunate incident``. Bless you P.C. Pandey. Long live secular humanism (Jay Bajrang Balli).

If this is the fate of an ex-MP, you can imagine what an average Indian muslim can expect in his secular republic, which is supposed to protect its citizens regardless of their religion. This picture of an Indian muslim caught in the middle of his secular Hindu neighbors explains it a bit:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/020301/170/174ml.html

I hope the poor guy and his children surrvived.