Chowk, Jay, a Ditch and I

For Metropolitan Washington Area Community

Dear Friends:

It is well known that shifting of huge national financial resources for defense-related programs has affected educational and other social programs that need urgent attention in our South Asian countries. Peace activists Achin Vanaik and Arjun Makhijani will discuss these issues in a meeting being held at NIH campus on Saturday, the 15th September 2001. A documentary by Professors Pervez Hoodbhoy and Zian Mian will also be shown. The details are given in the attached flyer.

This free, community awareness, program has been arranged by concerned citizens. All are invited to attend.

Looking forward to seeing you,

Arjun Makhijani

Hameed Khan

Rohit Tripathi

Sirish Agarwal

Zafar Iqbal



Nuclear Proliferation in the Subcontinent: Impact on Global Socio-Economic, Environmental, and Health Policies

Presentations by

Mr. Achin Vanaik

Veteran Journalist, Peace Activist

Dr. Arjun Makhijani

President, Institute for Energy and Environmental Research

Dr. Hameed Khan

Health Scientist Administrator, National Institutes of Health

Screening of a short documentary on peace perspectives made by

Professor Pervez Hoodbhoy, Quad-e-Azam University

&

Professor Zia Mian, Princeton University

Date: Saturday, 15th September

Time: 3:00-6:00 PM

Place: Conference Room, 6C6, Building 31, 6th Floor

National Institutes of Health (NIH), 31 Center Drive, Bethesda

Admission is free. This is a part of community awareness program

For information, please contact:

Dr. Sirish Agarwal 703-892-3415 sirish_ashadc@hotmail.com

Mr. Rohit Tripathi 301-515-1871 azza@glue.umd.edu

Dr. Zafar Iqbal 703-521-6371 raabta@123india.com

Driving Directions: From Beltway (I-495) take MD-355/Rockville Pike (exit 34) towards Bethesda. Make a right turn (west on Cedar Lane) after 2nd traffic light on second entrance to the NIH campus. Building 31 is located after parking lots. You can park free in those lots. Call the security using red phone, if the door is locked. The conference room 6C6 is on the 6th Floor.

Chowk, Jay, a Ditch and I #: 1391

Gowardhan

http://www.dawn.com/2001/09/06/ed.htm

More sectarian killings



Dawn Customer,

We have better recordkeeping of murder,Rapes,starvation deaths,Kidnapping ,suicide from desperation,gang war,political assasinations,illegal distillation deaths .

Just in Delhi alone 2 brides will be burnt within 48 hrs.

Chowk, Jay, a Ditch and I #: 1367

RSaxena

Re: UQAB

Drinking camel`s urine will make you healthy.

``The prophet ordered them to follow his camels, and drink their milk and urine , so they followed the camels and drank their milk and urine till their bodies became healthy.``

- Vol. 7:590, ``Sahih Al-Bukhari``



Sux Sena

Hadith varies & its Koran with its varied interpretation that forms the core of practice in Islam.

Besides No Pakistani from President to Mullah ever recommended it nor practiced or espoused it or bottled for home or Indian consumption.

Like most Indians you seem to worship godess of PRINTED WORDS Saraswati ,but we are more rational & logical than that

It was only b/c of Morarji Desai as P.M. of a bn people visiting u.s.a. boasted of it that it has become butt of a joke otherwise it went un=noticed in india for 6000 yrs ago ;didnt it !

Chowk, Jay, a Ditch and I EST Reply #: 362

Humsab------ali 1 # 353

Mr. The Wise One

Well, do you know who Manu of Manu Smriti is?

He is one of those great men who came on this earth before Muhammad and his name is in Holy Quran.``]

You may have been born 20years before me ,then why are you dummber & more idiotic than me.Mind rots with age like yours .Dont even take name of mohommed & koran from your Kafir mouth ,for this habit may cost you your life one day.Koran is not in your sanskrit & hindi & hindfus lack the genes to grasp arabic .Thats why u ppl.hate arabs & arabic so much





HINDUISM SAYS WOMEN, ANIMALS, BARBARIANS, `FALSEHOODS` ARE NOT TRUSTWORTHY

``He (the king) should arise in the last watch of the night and, unpolluted and with a concentrated mind, offer an oblation into the fire; then he should honour the Brahmins and enter his fine court-room. He should stay there greeting all his subjects, and then dismiss them; and when he has dismissed all his subjects he should take counsel with his counsellors (advisory cabinet). He should take counsel unobserved, climbing to a private place on the back of a hill or a roof-terrace, or in a wilderness that has no vegetation. A king whose counsel is not known by the common people when they come together will enjoy the entire earth even if he has a poor treasury. At the time of taking counsel he should have removed idiots, the mute, blind, or deaf; animals and very old people; women, barbarians, and those who are ill or who lack a part of the body. For those who are despised

disclose counsel, and so do animals and, especially, women; therefore he should be cautious among them. At noon or midnight, when he has rested and overcome his weariness, he should think, either alone or with those(advisers), about religion, profit, and pleasure, and about attaining them when they are mutually opposed, about giving daughters in marriage and protecting his sons, about sending ambassadors and finishing what has to be done, about what is going on in the harem and the movements of his secret agents.`` -- Manusmrti 7:145-153. * * * *

* * * * Some commentators say that he should expel animals such as dogs and crows, which are inauspicious; others that he should expel parrots and mynahs, talking birds that might expose the counsel.



MORE ON WOMEN IN HINDUISM

``Men must make their women dependent day and night, and keep under their own control those who are attached to sensory objects. Her father guards her in childhood, her husband guards her in youth, and her sons guard her in old age. A woman is not fit for independence.`` -- Manusmrti 9:2-4.

``Women are powerless, have no inheritance, and speak more humbly than even a bad man.`` -- Krsna Yajur Veda Taittiriya Samhita 6:5:8:2.

``Lord Indra himself has said, `The mind of woman cannot be disciplined; she has very little intelligence.` `` -- Rig Veda 8:33:17.

``A thirty-year-old man should marry a twelve-year-old girl who charms his heart, and a man of twenty-four an eight-year-old girl; and if duty is threatened, (he should marry) in haste.`` -- Manusmrti 9:94.

``A discarded wife is one who has no son. … For a wife that is without a son, is possessed with Nirriti (destruction, calamity).`` -- Satapatha Brahmana 5:3:1:13.

``A damsel whose menses begin to appear (while she is living) at her father`s house, before she has been betrothed to a man, has to be considered as a degraded woman: by taking her (without the consent of her kinsmen) a man commits no wrong.`` -- Visnusmrti 24:41.

``A girl, a young woman, or even an old woman should not do anything independently, even in (her own) house. In childhood a woman should be under her father`s control, in youth under her husband`s, and when her husband is dead, under her sons`. She should not have independence. A woman should not try to separate herself from her father, her husband, or her sons, for her separation from them would make both (her own and her husband`s) families contemptible. She should always be cheerful, and clever at household affairs; she should keep her utensils well-polished and not have too free a hand in spending. When her father, or her brother with her father`s permission, gives her to someone, she should obey that man while he is alive and not violate her vow to him when he is dead. Benedictory verses are recited and a sacrifice to the Lord of Creatures (Prajapati) is performed at weddings to make them auspicious, but it is the act of giving away (the bride) that makes (the groom) her master. A husband who performs always makes his woman happy, both when she is in her fertile season and when she is not, both here on earth and in the world beyond. A virtuous wife should constantly serve her husband like a god, even if he behaves badly, freely indulges his lust, and is devoid of any good qualities. Apart (from their husbands), women cannot sacrifice or undertake a vow or fast; it is because a wife obeys her husband that she is exalted in heaven. A virtuous wife should never do anything displeasing to the husband who took her hand in marriage, when he is alive or dead, if she longs for her husband`s world (after death). When her husband is dead she may fast as much as she likes, (living) on auspicious flowers, roots, and fruits, but she should not even mention the name of another man. She should be long-suffering until death, self-restrained, and chaste, striving (to fulfill) the unsurpassed duty of women who have one husband. Many thousands of Brahmins who were chaste from their youth have gone to heaven without begetting offspring to continue the family. A virtuous wife who remains chaste when her husband has died goes to heaven just like those chaste men, even if she has no sons. But a woman who violates her (vow to her dead) husband because she is greedy for progeny is the object of reproach here on earth and loses the world beyond. No (legal) progeny are begotten here by another man or in another man`s wife; nor is a second husband ever prescribed for virtuous women. A woman who abandons her own inferior (caste birth) husband and lives with a superior (caste birth) man becomes an object of reproach in this world; she is said to be `previously had by another man`. A woman who is unfaithful to her husband is an object of reproach in this world; (then) she is reborn in the womb of a jackal and is tormented by the diseases born of her evil.`` -- Manusmrti 5:147-164.

``Now the duties of a woman (are as follows): To live in harmony with her husband; To show reverence (by embracing their feet and such-like attentions) to her mother-in-law, father-in-law, to Gurus (such as elders), to divinities, and to guests; To keep household articles (such as the winnowing basket and the rest) in good array; To maintain saving habits; To be careful with her (pestle and mortar and other) domestic utensils; Not to practice incantations with roots (or other kinds of witchcraft); To observe auspicious customs; Not to decorate herself with ornaments (or to partake of amusements) while her husband is absent from home; Not to resort to the houses of strangers (during the absence of her husband); Not to stand near the doorway or by the windows (of her house); Not to act by herself in any matter; To remain subject, in her infancy, to her father; in her youth, to her husband; and in her old age, to her sons. After the death of her husband, to preserve her chastity, or to ascend the pile (funeral pyre) after him. No sacrifice, no vow, and no fasting is allowed to women apart from their husbands; to pay obedience to her lord is the only means for a woman to obtain bliss in heaven. A woman who keeps a fast or performs a vow (apart from her master) in the lifetime of her lord, deprives her husband of his life, and will go to hell. A good wife, who perseveres in a chaste life after the death of her lord, will go to heaven like (perpetual) students, even though she has no son.`` -- Visnusmrti 25:1-17.



HINDUISM & POLYGAMY/POLYGYNY

Although there is nothing explicitly wrong with polygyny, some Hindus have a delusion that Hinduism exclusively teaches monogamy. Let`s find out in the following scriptural quotes:

``When the king has taken counsel about all of this with his counsellors, and when he has exercised and bathed, he should enter the harem at noon to eat. There he should eat food over which Vedic verses that dispel poison have been chanted, food that has been well tested by kitchen servants who are like his second self, who cannot be seduced and who know the time (for food). And he should clean all of his articles with waters that destroy poison, and he should always be circumspect about wearing jewels that destroy poison. Well-tested women whose clothing and ornaments have been thoroughly cleaned should attentively caress him with fans, water, and incense. In the same way, he should be careful about his carriage, bed, seat, and food, and about bathing, anointing and adorning his body, and all his ornaments. When he has eaten, he should take his pleasure with the women in the harem; and when he has taken his pleasure at the proper time, he should think again about the things he must do. In full regalia, he shouldinspect the armed forces again, and all the vehicles, weapons, and ornaments. When he has performed his twilight rituals, he should arm himself, and in the inner chamber he should hear about the movements of his spies and those who report secrets. When he has dismissed these people and gone to another inner chamber, he should again enter the harem to eat,surrounded by women. When he has again eaten something there, his spirits lifted by instrumental music, he should lie down and then arise at the proper time free from fatigue. A king should follow this regime when he is healthy; but when he is not well, he may entrust all of this to his

retainers.`` -- Manusmrti 7:216-226.

Hinduism knows the duties of a maharaja. However, some Hindus would say that the harem-concubines are not necessarily the king`s wives so this is not really polygyny & it is only allowed for the raja (king). To further clarify this issue:

``Now a Brahmin may take four wives in the direct order of the (four) castes.`` -- Visnusmrti 24:1. ``One thing mixed with another should not be sold, nor anything that is spoiled, deficient, far away, or concealed. If one girl is shown but anotheris given to the bridegroom, he may marry both of them for the single bride-price; that is what Manu says.`` -- Manusmrti 8:203-4. Manu`s decrees are regarded as inspired by God.

Also, Lord Krsna had 16,000 wives, Lord Visnu & Brahma also had multiple consorts and Ksatriyas are recorded in the itihasas (Mahabharata/Ramayana/etc.) as having as many as thousands of wives & thousands of progeny. However, the immoral news is that Hinduism also sanctions polyandry, not only conventional polygamy. In the epic, the Mahabharata (of which one book is the Bhagavad-Gita), which is a true istory of Hindustan (Bharat/India) according to traditional Hindus, the five renowned Pandava brothers were told by their mom Kunti to divide the prize they won equally among all brothers. Good advice.....but the prize they won turned out to be their wife, Draupadi -- five brothers sharing one wife. Pathetic.

[Index]



HINDUISM VS. IDOLATRY

Which religion states that idolators will ``fall into an awful hell of pain and sorrow, and suffer terribly for a long time`` ? Islam? Sikhism? Judaism? Christianity? GUESS AGAIN....... Yeah, Hinduism - once again the holy Vedas speak:

``They are enveloped in darkness, in other words, are steeped in ignorance and sunk in the greatest depths of misery who worship the uncreated, eternal prakrti -- the material cause of the world -- in place of the All-pervading God, BUT THOSE WHO WORSHIP VISIBLE THINGS BORN OF THE PRAKRTI, such as the earth, trees, bodies (human and the like) in place of God are enveloped in still greater darkness, in other words, they are extremely foolish, fall into an awful hell of pain and sorrow, and suffer terribly for a long time.`` -- Yajur Veda 40:9.

This is merely further confirmed in yet another verse:

``The Formless Supreme Spirit that pervades the universe can have NO MATERIAL REPRESENTATION, LIKENESS OR IMAGE.`` -- Yajur Veda 32:3.

According to Hinduism`s sacred & eternal Vedas, idolators (i.e. ``but those who worship visible things born of the prakrti``) are condemned as perhaps the most wicked entities in Hinduism. ``No material representation``, i.e. no idols for Hindus lest they rot in ``hell``!!

Yet approximately 90% of practicing Hindus commit idolatry & defend it as an authorized & integral practice for Hinduism. In fact, Hindu priests world-wide provide prayers, offerings & even bathe miniature idols in milk regularly; pious Hindus across the globe pray to & bow-down before such

idols of Krsna, Ram/Sita, Linga (Phallus), Siva, Elephants (Ganesa), Monkeys (Hanuman), Cows (Nandi/etc.), Brahma, Yoni (Vagina), Nude Kali (Naked Dravidian-looking Goddess with a protruding blood-thirsty tongue), Snakes(Nag), Hogs (Varaha - Boar Avatar), Turtles (Kurma - Turtle Avatar), Fish (Matsya - Fish Avatar), Goats (Agni - Sacrificial Goat w/Flames -- the Fire-God), Fire-God (Agni), Sun-God (Surya/etc.), Moon-God (Candresvara), etc. Some remote sects & tribes of Hinduism even worship crocodiles, camels, donkeys, dogs, rats, toys, frogs, insects and other absurdities.

[Index]



HINDUISM`S RITUALS, PREGNANCY & BIRTH CONTROL METHODS

``If one discharges semen, whether it is a little or a lot, in sleep or while awake, one should touch it and also address it with this formula: `I retrieve this semen that fell on earth today; into water or plants though it may have seeped. May I regain my virility, my ardour, my passion; let the fire and the fire-mounds each return to its place.` As he recites this heshould take the semen with his thumb and ring finger and rub it between his breasts or brows. If, moreover, he sees his reflection in water, let him address it thus: `May vigour, virility, fame, wealth, and merit remain in me!`

Surely a woman who has changed her clothes at the end of her menstrual period is the most auspicious of women. When she has changed her clothes at the end of her menstrual period, therefore, one should approach that splendid w man and invite her to have sex. Should she refuse to consent, he should bribe her. If she still refuses, he should beat her with a stick or with his fists and overpower her, saying: `I take away the splendour from you with my virility and splendour.` And she is sure to become bereft ofsplendour. If, on the other hand, she accedes to his wish, he should say: `I confer splendour on you with my virility and splendour.` And then they are both sure to become full of splendour. If he wants her to love him, he should slip his penis into her, press his mouth against hers, and stroke her vagina as he softly recites: `From my body you spring -- from every inch! Born from my heart, you are my body`s pith! Make her crazy about me, as if she`s been hit with a dart carrying a poisoned tip.`

If he does not want her to become pregnant, he should slip his penis into her, press his mouth against hers, blow into her mouth and su *ck back the breath, as he says: `I take back the semen from you with my virility and semen.` And she is sure to become bereft of semen. If, on the other hand, he wants her to become pregnant, he should slip his penis into her, press his mouth against hers, suc *k in the breath first, and then blow it back into her mouth, as he says:`I deposit the semen in you with my virility and semen.` And she is sure to become pregnant. In case someone`s wife has a lover whom he hates, this is what he should do. He should place some fire in an unbaked pot, spread out a bed of reeds, arranging them in a way that is the reverse of the normal, apply ghee to the tips of those reeds, again in an order that is the reverse of the normal, and offer them in that fire, as he recites....`` -- Brhadaranyaka Upanisad 6:4:4-12.

There is no evidence that the above method to avoid pregnancy works. So Hindus, do not try this at home thinking it is a good birth control method.

[Index]



HINDUISM VS. MEAT

``When a man finds that his wife is having her period, he should make sure that she does not drink from a metal cup or wear fresh clothes for three days. Nor should a low-caste man or woman be allowed to touch her. When thethree days are over and she has taken her bath, he should get her to thresh some rice. `I want a son with a fair complexion who will master a single Veda and live out his full life span` -- if this is his wish, he should get her to cook that rice with milk, and the two of them should eat it mixed with ghee. The couple thus becomes capable of begetting such a son. `I want a son with a ruddy complexion and tawny eyes who will master two Vedas and live out his full life span` -- if this is his wish, he should get her to cook that rice with curd, and the two of them should eat it mixed with ghee.The couple thus becomes capable of begetting such a son. `I want a son with a dark complexion and reddish eyes who will master three Vedas and live out his full life span` -- if this is his wish, he should get her to cook that rice in water and the two of them should eat it mixed with ghee. The couple thus becomes capable of begetting such a son. `I want a learned daughter who will live out her full life span` -- if this is his wish, he should get her to cook that rice with sesame seeds and the two of them should eat it mixed with ghee. The couple thus becomes capable of begetting such a daughter. `I want a learned and famous son, a captivating orator assisting at councils, who will master all the Vedas and live out his full life span` -- if this is his wish, he should get her to cook that rice with meat and the two of them should eat it mixed with ghee. The couple thus becomes capable of begetting such a son. The meat may be that of a young or a fully grown bull (veal or beef). Then, towards morning, following the same ritual procedure as at the cooking of the pot of milk-rice, he should prepare melted butter and offer portions from the pot of milk-rice in the fire, saying: `To fire, svaha! To assent, svaha! To the divine Savitr, faithful in procreation, svaha!` After making these offerings, he takes the rest out and, after first eatinghimself, gives some to his partner. After washing his hands, he fills a pot with water and sprinkles her with it three times, saying: `Get up, Visvavasu, and leave this place; find yourself some other luscious girl. This wife is here with her husband.` Then he embraces her, as he says: `I am ama, you are sa -- you are sa, I am ama. I am the Saman chant, you are the Rg verse; I am the sky, you are the earth. Come, let us unite, deposit the seed, to get a son, a male child.` Then he spreads apart her thighs, saying: `Spread apart, earth and sky.` He slips his penis into her, presses his mouth against hers, and strokes her three times in the direction of her hair, as he says: `May Visnu prepare your womb, and Tvastr mould the forms; may Prajapati impregnate you, and Dhatr lay the foetus in you.` `` -- Brhadaranyaka Upanisad 6:4:13-21.

(Actually, more than necessary was quoted above to show the Hindu position on beef/meat, but what the hell, it is a hilarious Hindu ritual.) Anyways, had the meat mentioned above been even chicken, it would have still been extremely awkward for the so-called vegetarian faith, but this is BEEF and its consumption is being promoted for begetting a learned son according to the timeless Vedas. Here is another scriptural quote on meat:

``Meat is indeed the best kind of food.`` -- Satapatha Brahmana 11:7:1:3; cf. 12:8:3:12.

So much for ahimsa (non-violence) & vegetarianism. Not only that, but if you have been reading other parts of this article, you will have seen other scriptural excerpts in which Hindu Gods themselves set an example of eating beef (for instance, Lord Indra in Rig-Veda Samhita & Lord Rama in Ayodhyakanda).



HINDUISM SAYS BESTIALITY IS NOT THAT BAD OF A CRIME

Hinduism states that sex with animals is not nearly as bad as sex with a (human) outcaste; for sex with a cow or some other animal, it`s pardonable, but for sex with a (human) outcaste, a twice-born Hindu should be executed:

``An adulterer shall be made to pay the highest amercement if he has had connection with a woman of his own caste; for adultery with women of a lower caste, the second amercement; the same (fine is ordained) for a bestial crime committed with a cow. He who has had connection with a woman of one of the lowest castes, shall be put to death. For a bestial crime committed withcattle (other than cows) he shall be fined a hundred Karshapanas.`` -- Visnusmrti 5:40-44.

Just as incest is not an infrequent theme in Hindu scripture, sex withanimals is also not an uncommon motif in Hinduism. Indeed, great rishis (sages) have been born through bestiality (ref. Manusmrti 10:69-72.). The rishi Rsyasrnga had a deer for a mom. Furthermore, Pandu (the dad of the five famous Pandava princes) had accidentally killed a rishi who was in animal form having sex with a deer (ref. Mahabharata Adiparvan 95.). Hindu queens and other Aryan women of diverse provinces in ancient Hindustan used to have sex with dead horses during the Asvamedha sacrifice, and Lord Rama`s mom Kausalya spent an entire night having sex with a carcass of a sacrificial horse in Valmiki Ramayana (ref. Ramayana 1:13:24-33.). Bestiality depictions have also been found at the Khajuraho temple-complex in Hindustan.



SOME `GREAT SAGES` OF HINDUISM WERE BORN THROUGH BESTIALITY

``Just as good seed, sown in a good field, culminates in a birth, so the son born from an Aryan father in an Aryan mother deserves every transformative ritual. Some wise men value the seed, others the field, and still others both the seed and the field; but this is the final decision on this subject: seed sown in the wrong field perishes right inside it; and a field by itself with no seed also remains barren. And since sages have been born in (female)animals by the power of the seed, and were honoured and valued, therefore the seed is valued.`` -- Manusmrti 10:69-72.

]



HOW THE GREAT SAGE RSYASRNGA WAS BORN

``An apsaras was cursed to become a female deer and to remain in this form

until she bore a son to a sage. One day the sage Vibhandaka, the son of asyapa, caught sight of another apsaras and shed his seed. The female deer drank his seed and bore Rsyasrnga, who had a horn on his head. ....`` -- Mahabharata III:110:17-36, III:1-22, 112:1-18, 113:1-25.



LORD SIVA & LORD VISNU

Mohini [`The Enchantress`] is a famous apsaras (celestial nymph) of Lord Indra`s harem. Although usually the apsarases are real and usually created by the gods for the purpose of distracting enemies or ascetics, Lord Visnu himself sometimes takes a form to look like the nymph Mohini to delude the demons during battle:

``Visnu took the form of the apsaras Mohini in order to beguile the demons and to steal the Soma back from them. Having accomplished this, Visnu was approached by Siva and Parvati, and Siva asked him to display the seductive form which he had assumed for the demons. Visnu became Mohini, and Siva immediately ran after her, abandoning Parvati who stood with her head lowered in shame. Siva embraced Mohini by force, and his seed fell upon the ground. Mohini disappeared and Siva returned to Parvati.`` -- Brahmanda Purana 4:10:41-77.



HOW LORD HANUMAN (THE MONKEY-GOD) WAS BORN

``One day Siva saw the Mohini form of Visnu. He was struck by Kama`s arrows and let fall his seed. The Seven Sages put the seed in a pot and they infused it into the daughter of Gautama through her ear. In time, Hanuman, the monkey-god, was born from it.`` -- Siva Purana 3:20:3-7.



HOW LORD GANESA WAS BORN

``When Siva and Parvati were making love together, Visnu took the form of a Brahmin with matted locks, oppressed by thirst, and he went to the bedroom door and said, `What are you doing, Siva? Arise and give me food and water, for I am an old man oppressed by thirst.` Siva arose, and his seed fell on the bed instead of in the womb of his wife. Then Siva and Parvati offered the Brahmin food and water, and he vanished and took the form of a child and went to Parvati`s bed. There he became mixed with the seed of Siva that was on the bed, and he was born like an engendered child. Parvati found the child and nursed him, naming him Ganesa.`` -- Brahmavaivarta Purana 3:8:19-33, 83-8, 3:9:1-26.

Lord Ganesa lost his head one day, so Lord Siva chopped-off an elephant`s head and attached it to Ganesa`s body. This is how Lord Ganesa became an Elephant-headed God.

Smart Chapee ,whatever you ascrib to loran without reading it ,we know more about your dirty past which ganges water hath turned turbid washing the misdeeds of brahmins & caste hindu supressing women & Sudras.

A Pakistani School’s Visit to India

My Last Chappu

SAMiNASHAH

``Veereesh, there are many North Americans who believe the psychic/economic/political/social/cultural tensions that surround race (specifically African Americans, American Indians and Anglo Americans) will never be resolved until the U.S. systematically acknowledges the genocide of American Indians and the enslavement of Africans. Any thoughts? Open to everyone..``]

Zionism states only blessed ppl. are Israelites,they are SPL. chosen ,no one can be EQUAL to them.Compare that to Islam which is OPEN to any HUMAN poorest of the poor ,handicapped of the handicapped .,IF they so wish.NO EXCLUSIVITY.

There might be some Americans who genuinely be interested in EQUALITY,but dont forget u.s.a. is still influenced by 5% of the power structure out of which 1% is Zionists Israelites out only 2$ population of this diverse country where people of Islamic faith alone outnumber total jewish ppl. Indian origin ppl. alone are close to 1/2 the total population of israelites in u.s.a. yet u.s.a has never voted against zionism & Israel ever .

Regarding proof of what NATIVE indians have been reduced to.They are hidden KNOWINGLY ,by the intelligent power structure, visit any of the reservation (which like the leper colony of the biblical times) are spread across ameerica.These reservation picture are hidden from thr glossy picture of american tourism hung across the embassies across the globe .They ,like wise exisit in rural parts of states ACROSS AMERICA.

Chowk, Jay, a Ditch and I eply #: 196

``rajanjua--------e: Bijli

Quite a few of those brilliant scientists, philosophers, etc. were Jews (Ummayid Spain) - I one of the many contributions) - But that was then - what about now? ``



In fact personally many jews have told me (contrary to new york times & Atlantic monthly & Islamophobic media ) during the rule by muslim s Jews got the best ever patronage ,protection respect for learning etc, than ever by Catholic & semi democratic states of Germany & other European countries through out Europe;through out which Jews were spread BEFORE 48 formation of Israel.

I know when i speak of period from 7th century to 1600 i dont mean to say Islamic in the sense ALL contributors were MUSLIM.

By the same token ,there have been many muslims who have contributed in SECULAR world go uncounted as MUSLIM when NON MUSLIM look with DISDAIN at the barbaric Image that popuar media keep propogating since WW2 end when most colonised muslim nations from north africa to Indonesia came to themselves from imperialistic colonisers French,Italian,Dutch,British,.....

``I don`t see any reason to get excited about Canon being a part of English vocabulary - so is Curry.``

Its not a word contribution its like if 50 yrs ago somebody mentioned Window ,Dos Or Pentium ,its not just word ,Canon is whole concept in physiology .

Chowk, Jay, a Ditch and I

Pertinent to last few posts .About the 1000yrs long history of phenomenal rise of crescent of Islam& mentioned Spain ,(CARDOVA).Represented the zenith of this civilizations peak when learning & art flourished with peace & stability for long time.Islam though originated in arabia ,but the concept of race DOES NOT EXIST in true understanding of essence of Islam,.To think of it as Arab achievement would be as wrong.Just as considering American olympic gold medal as CHRISTIAN axchievement.

During the Muslim rule of Spain, the Mulim society was the foremost in the

world. The text below presents a few glimpses of life in just one of the

cities, Cordoba:

`Falcon of Spain`

T B Irving (1991)

Chowk, Jay, a Ditch and I #202

``[Saxsena

Re: your post #183And if with your selections from the Quran you are trying to prove that Allah had it all figured out before Newton, Einstein, Faraday, Planck, and Maxwell, let`s end this discussion here -- I have no interest in getting into such nonsense. I might as well go read about alien kidnappings and UFO crash sites.``]



Sax,

Lol, If you dont read even ,you will come up with the off the cuff irrelevent answers.

In case you did read & not sure ,that is rebuttal of Arun Shourie ,now union minister & considered one of the most erudite at least in the govt.He as you know has done a bad job of translating which is like trans-litereing of Koran--anywayze thats another big discussion.

He has tried to prove( im sure with the intention of scoring points with fanatics that certain ideas in Koran) like distribution of inheritence which btw is totally different from other religions doesnt add up.The point being if such a book whose directive is word of god ,if doesnt add up ,it cant be gods word,You can read it again & if you have doubt ,let me know .

There is NO such claim that all the libraries which muslim themselves built from Cardova to now Indonesia knowing that everything was already in the koran.THATS MISINFORMATIONAT ITS BEST.

Chowk, Jay, a Ditch and I Reply #: 202

``RSaxena-------Re: bijli

Hmmm...so by your logic if Einstein`s work is translated into Chinese, it becomes a product of the Chinese? ``]



NNNo,it DOESn``t

BUT AT THE SAME TIME E=mc2,IS NOT JEWISH OR TORAH EITHER!

Science ,& all knowledge is not of any group .Einstein could not have done it without the KINDNESS of what loosely be christian peoples.

AND translation into Chinese ,means at least they are literate in things other than JUST chinese.

By comparison ,the medieval period may seem PRIMITIVE ,but for those days simple concepts that all humans are equal would be equivalent to 1000 later when Grays wrote Anatomy book ,bible of all medical schools.

Chowk, Jay, a Ditch and I

#

Saxsena

May be b/c of general prejudice leading to intellectual blindness ,like Mr.Arun Shourie ,who has written a distorted transliteration of koran.most indians deny anything fromthe islamic period .BUT ANY WHITE ANGLOSAXON EDUCATED WOULD TEACH YOU THAT RENNAISENCE WAS REAWAKENING OF EUROPE FROM THE TRANSLATION OF ISLAMIC PERIODS IN ARABIC.In fact they are more aware of ARABIC than SANSKRIT AS MANUSCRIPT OF MEDIEVAL PERIOD.

Author of the Quran does not know Mathematics

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

By Dr. Zakir Naik, Islamic Voice, April 2001

Question: According to Arun Shourie there is a mathematical error in the Quran. In chapter 4 verses 11 and 12 when you add up the different parts of inheritance given to the heirs, it is more than one. Therefore the author of the Quran does not know mathematics.

Answer: The Quran mentions about inheritance in many places, in

Surah Al Baqarah-Chapter 2 verse 180

Surah Al Baqarah-Chapter 2 verse 240

Surah Al Nisa-Chapter 4 verses 7 to 9

Surah Al Nisa-Chapter 4 verses19 and 33

Surah Al Maidah-Chapter 5 verses 105 and 108

Regarding the share of inheritance it is clearly given in Surah Nisa-chapter 4 verse 11, 12 and 176.

Let us examine the verses quoted by Arun Shourie, i.e. Surah Nisa chapter 4 verses 11 and 12:

Allah (swt) (thus) directs you as regards your childrens (inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females: if only daughters, two or more, their share is two-thirds of the inheritance; if only one, her share is a half.

For parents, a sixth share of the inheritance to each, if the deceased left children; if no children, and the parents are the (only) heirs, the mother has a third; if the deceased left brothers (or sisters) the mother has a sixth. (The distribution in all cases is) after the payment of legacies and debts. Ye know not whether your parents or your children are nearest to you in benefit. These are settled portions ordained by Allah; and Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.

In what your wives leave, your share is a half, if they leave no child; but if they leave child, ye get a fourth; after payment of legacies and debts. In what ye leave, their share is a fourth, if ye leave no child; but if ye leave a child, they get an eighth; after payment of legacies and debts. [Al-Quran 4:11-12]

Islam explains the law of inheritance in great detail. The broad and basic outline is given in the Quran and the minute details are given in the Ahadith i.e. the tradition and sayings of the Prophet (Pbuh).

A person can spend his full life only on the research of the Islamic law of inheritance with its various permutations and combinations. Arun Shourie expects to know the law only by superficially reading two verses of the Quran without knowing the criteria.

It is similar to a person who wants to solve a mathematical equation but does not know the basic rule of mathematics, i.e. BODMAS which says that in a mathematical equation, irrespective of which mathematical sign appears first, you will first solve BODMAS: 1st Brackets Off, 2nd Division, 3rd Multiplication, 4th Addition and 5th Subtraction. If Arun Shourie does not know mathematics and first does multiplication then subtraction, then brackets off, then division and finally addition, the answer that he will obtain is bound to be wrong.

Similarly, when the Quran mentions the law of inheritance in Surah Nisa chapter 4 verses 11 and 12, even though the childrens share is mentioned first and then that of the parents and spouses, according to the law of inheritance in Islam after paying off the debts and liabilities first, the share is given to the spouses and the parents depending on whether the deceased has left children or not, and whatever portion of wealth is remaining is divided between the sons and the daughters according to their respective shares.

So where does the question arise of the total coming to more than one? So it is not Allah who does not know mathematics but it is Arun Shourie himself who is ignorant about mathematics.



http://www.themodernreligion.com/index2.html

Chowk, Jay, a Ditch and I

#175

Saxsena,

``I don`t undertand what you are trying to say. But I hope you`re not suggesting that Islam had anything to do with the Renaissance in Europe!``]

Sax,

Before we lose where we started our discussion & move too far away from my initial posts particularly last one DONT forget what i have said ,``it is a team work with no one nation or race or religion or ethnicity could have done without the others,``

When Islam was at its zenith Europe was in its DARK ages.ALL scienceses were translated into Arabic .Physicianes & surgeons like Abu senna (avicenna distorterd name) Al Rhazzes surgeon had early hosptals in Baghdad ,Spain & constantinipole.The detractors blame muslims of burning libraries WHEREAS FACT IS THAT CARDOVA HAD THE BEST LIBRARY OF THE TIME.

IF ARABIC TRANSLATION OF SCIENCE UPTO THEN HAD NOT EXISTED ANATOMY TO ASTRONOMY TO GYNAECOLOGY TO GEOGRAPHY TO ALGEBRA TO CHEMISTRY AS IT EXISTED UPTO AT THAT TIME COULD NOT HAVE BEEN POSSIBLE INTO LATIN & LATER INTO ENGLISH.

Even the benefactors of Rennaisence dont deny a seprate period under islmmmic period during which science & learning flourished with patronage ,financial assistence & direct contributions in all fields of learnings.

I DOUBT YOUR EDUCATION ,IF YOU DO NOT KNOW THAT RENNAISENCE COULD NOT HAVE BEEN POSSIBLE WITHOUT THE EXISISTING KNOWLEGE IN ALL SCIENCESES .DURING THE DARK EUROPEAN AGES.Just go & see the spleandour of pre Rennaisence era & read the HISTORY of science

AFTER rennaisence they all begin in ARABIC period.Camera word is `kamrah` derived from arabic.Avicenna physician is ABU SENNA ,& so forth.

I am aware of Sanskrit being there & early Mathematics being in existence even before 7th century ,but since all that were incorporated into ARABIC text ,many european just know it coming from Islamic era as Al Geber for algebra,astronomical names,etc etc. etc.

My Last Chappu EST Reply #: 2

temporal

``[Shankar:

...nice yarn...if nothing the many spelling errors and the tense mix-ups would guarantee a return of either the Chappu or ibn ibn ibn ibn ibn...yaar kamal kartay ho...Freud ko bhee mis-spell kardya``]

Dont worry ,Shanker

Spellings syntax,grammar can be taken care of by blond dumb secretary who knows ONLY english.

Top Ten South Asian Pieces of Music

`90-`00:

1) Jab kisi ki taraf dil jukhney lagay

2) Gali may aaj chand nikla--Zakhm

3) Ek din aap youn ham ko mil jain gay--Yes Boss

4) Meri sanson may basa hai tera hi ek naam--Aur pyar ho gaya

5) Chitti na koi sandes, janey woh kon sa des--DUSHMAN

6) Chanda re, chanda re, kabhi to zamin par a-SAPNAY

7) Tadap tadap kay is dil sey aah nikal ti rahi-HDDCS

8) Mast--Mast

9) Aye ho meri zindagi may tum--Raja Hindustani

OLDIES:

Khilona jan kar tum to mera dil tor jatey ho

*Zindagi deney waley sun, teri duniya say dil bhar gaya *

Koi jab tumhara ridey tor day, tarapta hua jab tumhey chor day

Dushman na karey dost nay woh kaam kiya hai

Honthon say choolo tum , mera geet amar kardo

O sathi re, terey bina bhi kya jeena

the list goes on...to part 2 (which i`ll prob. post later)....phew......

Chowk, Jay, a Ditch and I Aug-25-01 13:9:16 EST Reply #: 158

RSaxena.....Re: Bijli

No. 1? What in blue hell are you smoking? No one group is No. 1 in all these things. Are you feeling insecure about your appearance, intelligence, or both that you have to make BS statements like this to compensate?



Im smoking the PUREST AIR ,mankind on this earth can get .Im lucky !im not in NYC.or Camp David .

I didnt say one person or one religion only when the govt.was isllamic fromslow rise from 7th ad to 1600 a.d. Yes the zenith was BETWEEN thses two tail end centuries from 7th to 1600 a.d. It maynot be exactly 1000 could be 900 but the zenith was when it extended from the greatest library of that time CORDOVA in spain to perhaps Indonesia as we see it now.Many jews in there mind will admit begruddgingly in view of palestenian problem,the BEST treatment Jews ever got from government till now wa Islamic era .Some of the jews occupied high position as they are now b/c of there scholorship (you see muslim know jews are GEEK, for 1500 yrs ago !!)

YES I AGREE SCIENCE KNOWLEDGE SCHOLARSHIP HAS MORE THAN ONE PEOPLE MORE THAN ONE RACE & MORE THAN ONE GOVT TO THANK .its a team effort where you take it from the previous contributor who may not be from your group or country & you advance it .FOR 1000 YEARS ,ISLAMIC CIVILZATION CONTRIBUTED TO SCIENCE & KNOWLEDGE ,WHICH WAS THE TOTAL EXTENT MANKIND KNEW AT THAT TIME WAS KNOWN BY ISLAMIC PEOPLE .IT WAS NO1 FOR THAT TIME & YES NON MUSLIM SCHOLARS WERE PART OF IT ./

``[And by the way, the glory days of Islam were about 400 years ago. Not now. Not in this century.``]

------

S,

The end of glory days ,yes were 400 yrs.agO with british, gaining from ``ThE rennaisence`` ,which was only possible because of islamic love for scholarship ,support financially ,& koranic dictum ``go as far as CHEEN to acquire knowledge ``Now guys like Jay would only remember the last word China & ridicule Pakistanis to go to China ,but if you are of atleast 80 i.q. even you appreciate the spirit ,principle & ability to extrapolate metaphoprs & not be CONCRETE.thanx

Ideas and Identities Melt Here Reply #: 42

Gowardhan

Bijli 39

`[? You just eat what your parents taught you. Is that very different from what animals do?``]

JUST ASK THE FINNIKY AMERICAN KIDS?I WISH!

``[Justifying cruelty to animals talking of food chain is thinking like an animal. So may be there isnt much difference between some humans and animals``]

I RESPECT YOUR OPINION.TRY ACTING ON YOUR CONVICTION BY KILLING A HUMAN THINKING ``isn`t much difference between some humans & animals``

WOULD YOU ?

You want to learn every thing by committing mistakes?