A Child Is Born Good stuff!

Incantation Well written!

Can’t we too break the wall? Re: Hamid Shah * *Why is it that this forum tends to support Anti Pakistani feelings more than True nationalistic feelings. * *What are Nationalistic Feelings? Can you give an example? It appears that you consider yourself a Pakistani. Can you please elaborate what you consider a forum that would suit your taste?The writer, Yousuf Saeed has a point of view that he expressed - should he be prevented from wanting to explore this issue? * *either the founders of this site are ``AHMEDIS` or some awfully anti Pakistan motivated group. * *Now, about Ahmedis. Would you feel better if Ahmedis were exterminated like Jews? Is that what Pakistan needs to progress? Is that your idea of an ideology? I am sure you dont believe that so why spread hate. Havent we had enough of that. Please dont give religion a bad name by fomenting hatred and contempt. Leveling accusations and criticising others is really not a pleasant habit - it is bad for you and distasteful for the readers. I am sure you know that it is unIslamic too. Co-existence and co-operation are virtues that we have ignored in our march to progress. It is not a bad thing to occasionally consider extending hands of friendship.

Chiragh Beautiful. Thank you for sharing ``Chiragh.``

So, We Are Nuclear Too!! Brilliantly stated.

Lets examine what was easier to accomplish for both countries:

-- Increase literacy by 15% in 5 years or detonate
-- Double spending on education or detonate
-- Provide basic human rights to people or detonate
-- Decrease corruption by 15% or detonate
-- ...

The leaders used their judgement and were endorsed by 80 % of their voters. Quite democratic.

Perhaps a new era has dawned. If we all want something hard enough the government will do it. Now the small matter of deciding what we want as much as detonating nuclear weapons in each others face... ehh, Cricket World-Cup, Hockey World-Cup, education, free sex, religious revolution, air-conditioning, two meals a day, justice system, freedom to just ``be,`` gosh, I cant decide ...

( * * Has the nation found its conscience? Dare we hope? Dare we build? And lastly, dare we care about Pakistan? * *)

A nation`s concience originates from the collective consciousness of its people. Of course, we must build, of course, we must care ... but only after we have fulfilled our basic needs - two square meals for some and detonations for others. Hopefully we can build so everyone gets what they want.

Cool Desperation Dear Temporal,

You woke me with your response. What the hell, let me tell you of my Karachi, the one I left years ago...

(1: My first Lattoo win.)

Never played Lattoo. Too busy playing street cricket.

(2: My first Kite fight.)

Yup, I almost fell from the roof but on another occasion I had him bleed on the torn guddi.

(3: My uncle`s Lotan Kabooter.)

No comments.

(4: Burns Road ki Nihari vs. Hanifia ka Kabab.)


Dammit, why did you have to remind me. The 2D and 2K used to take us to Empress market and then the Yellow Devil would drop us off at Sabri`s Nihari place. That was before my Kawasaki 100, which of course took me to Students Biryani and other great places. BTW, Bundu Khan was too expensive and snooty for a decent tikka and Katta-Kat.

(5: Gilli Danda kay nashayb-o-faraz)

Are you crazy, street urchins do that :=)

(6: Why the Bank Chowkidars carry pre war
(First W.W.) rifles with polished blanks.)

Never thought or cared.

(7: Bus stop par khari larki say pehli mohabbat.)

Hmm. I hope someone else takes that one. I have to protect her identity.

(8: Critique on Karachi Bus Conductors; Irani
restaurant waiters and American auctioneers.
(with emphasis on DNA similarities and the
23rd chromosome).)

My major experience was in 2D and 2K. My favorite haunt was a place called Taj Mahal on the way to NED near Sohrab Goth. another one was an Irani Hotel near Abbasi Shaheed Hospital (7 number chowk, it was called). I spent many nights there when the press used to be printing our flyers and ...

(9: Acceptance of Charas: Journey from Dargah
to Colleges. And Zia`s role in it.)

I normally defer discussion on Zia`s role to a certain Sohail Rabbani. My tales of Zia consist of the day his men fired tear gas after student unions were banned in February 1985. Charas is not a topic that should be discussed here :=)

(10:Thursday evening Donkey races to the Clifton Mazaar and its impact on Lyari. )

That is a loaded statement. The impact is not hidden from anyone. Is there any doubt?

Thank you Saad for bringing back memories of Karachi.

All About Nothing You raise some provocative questions. One is tempted to think that what differentiates us from each other is in fact our degree of ownership of ``nothing-ness.`` But then, one persons nothingness could be another persons somethingness, right?

For instance, a plane crash over the Atlantic means something to the person who has just seen off his wife and kids on a flight, and nothing to the chap flipping channels eating potato chips or rather nothing.

Why are Pakistanis so Foreign? It’s the Americans’ Fault! Well said, sir. Thanks.

A Fallen Man Nathan, you have written a very powerful story. A sledgehammer that does not stop. Thanks for sharing it with us. Brilliant, Brilliant.

Why are Pakistanis so Foreign? It’s the Americans’ Fault! Re: BG

Yes, it does.

Why are Pakistanis so Foreign? It’s the Americans’ Fault! A fascinating thread seems to be brewing here. It is interesting how a Western name forces us to get defensive.

Re: BG

Okay, so who should we be lumped up with? Strong words you have chosen, - ``We are lumped together with Indians or other non-white third world immigrants - poor, desperate, uncivilized, exotic ...`` but leave the impression that the central point has been missed twice over, so perhaps the central point has not even been addressed yet. Reminds me of an incident where my friend was forced to leave a blank space in a birth form because there was no specific mention of Pakistani, only Indian. I bet Sohail Rabbani can prove that in another 100 years the same reaction will lead to a Sindhi or a Punjabi category in various forms. Quite a day that would be - yikes!

Re: Shan Anwar

Well said, sir. Implicit in your argument is the message that we should be proud of our skin, proud of its color, proud of what we believe in - of course, we are different and therein begins our contribution to this world. As is (must be) written somewhere on Chowk - we ought to celebrate diversity, not simply appreciate it and lend lip service. I daresay, like you, we ought to also defend our differences.

Re: Saad Shafqat

I think the author does allude to the religious underpinnings through a paragraph - ``Sure, the Pakistan Constitution is rife with acknowledgments to Allah. But, U.S. history is an unambiguous collage of religious superciliousness and blatant sanctimony. ``

Regards

An Analysis of the Information Technology Industry in Pakistan The Institute of Business Administration (IBA) in Karachi has published a book on the IT industry. You may find it useful.

You may find some other information on www.pesanet.org/Forum

Good luck.

Funding Lower Education SUB: Syed Ahmed: ``What do we plan to do, make them drill the poor kids to death, teach them the wonders of absolute conformity?``

I think Adil does not really mean this. Given the constraints, this is perhaps one way of doing things. It is tragic that he has suggested the option but then these are not the best of times ... surely, not the age of reason ... I suppose, the real issue is that what the hell is one supposed to do with the military? How do you make them useful? My view is that they should be used to facilitate law and order ``within`` the country - education, particularly lower education, should be accomplished by changing the basis and nature of the ``home.`` And I believe that should be carried out by educating and empowering the women.

Where in the Brain is the Mind Sohail, You raise an interesting point by your example of electromagnetic fields. And I found your analogy quite relevant to our ongoing discussion. Causality is the basis of this thought. The field cannot exist without the dynamics preceding its formation. Similarly, consciousness cannot just pop out of thin air, it is (must be) a function of the underlying structure - what Hameroff considers to be microtubules and Penrose further associates with Quantum physics. Intermediate complexity is the problem that we must attempt to solve. To say that consciousness is based on a far more complex basis and therefore ultra-physical is only true if we persist with doctrine driven, dogma dictated thought processes. My view is that we ought to address the issue as a scientific problem and deal with it independent of any biases. Akin to what is known as a ``Clean Room`` environment in the techno world.

More on soul next time...

Funding Lower Education Adil,

Actually I thought it would be less dangerous than letting them ``educate.``

In principle, hypothetically speaking, I agree with your idea. It cannot hurt if ``selected`` individuals are entrusted the task of educating. Given that they usually do have roots in villages and perhaps even command respect. However, it would be much better if they performed the task of ensuring that ``education`` by ``enhanced`` conventional means proceeded without interference. So, the same ``selected`` educationists could be employed for facilitating rather than orchestrating/conducting the education process.

Moreover, isnt it high time that we stopped looking towards the military to solve our social problems? It is a counter-productive approach and inconsistent with your usual idealism.

Funding Lower Education Your idea regarding using the ``armed forces`` for something is novel. Your earlier comment, `` ..This house was destroyed brick by brick by brick, with each one of us having a hand in the dismemberment. Maybe, it needs to be rebuilt the same way,`` is perhaps a more appealing option. We all need to contribute. The role of the armed forces needs to be diminished rather than enhanced. They have had the opportunity to run or should I say ruin the country for far too long and the best contribution they can make now is to ensure that civilian, democratic governments keep getting elected. Actually, in my opinion they should be made to do the job of our Police.

For whatever it is worth, we need to switch the powerbase. And address the ``education`` problem via increased awareness. More than 70% of the population is illiterate because (a) they dont truly comprehend what they are missing and (b) there are vested interests and extraneous reasons to keep them that way. If the armed forces must be used then it should be to ensure that no child under 15 is out on the streets during school hours and no one is ever denied education. In addition, the only drastic measure that should be taken is to educate the women, in villages, in cities, in everywhere. The rest should follow.

We should be able to progress faster and educate ourselves faster if the women are empowered. Am I alone with this opinion?