Black Tuesday: The View From Islamabad romair #41:

[...wear a shirt with a Pakistani flag on it.]

ok. i want to buy one. is it on sale at walmart?

Caught In Between 5 Pakistanis held in Macau

LISBON: Police in Macau on Sunday detained five Pakistanis on suspicion of links to the September 11 air assaults in the United States, Lusa news agency reported here.

The report quoted a spokesman for the Macau government as confirming the detention and nationalities of the five men, saying the operation had been mounted on a tipoff from abroad.

Police sources told Lusa that the arrests followed a request from the US consulate in Hong Kong, which had provided the identities of the five men.

http://www.timesofindia.com/articleshow.asp?art_id=1545975380

Caught In Between a very obvious list of `demands` to make all the jihadis fall in line -

.keep india/israel out of it: illiterate jihadis, the madarsa educated, are happy

.write off $30b: educated jihadis, the bankers, engineers, businessmen, dedicated to fighting in kashmir (according to romair) are happy

.help us in kashmir: all jihadis are happy

How Would Gandhi Answer This Attack? romair #68,

[...I don`t think there is too much bite behind the bark of Pakistan`s internal Jehadis. The only ones with bite are dedicated to fighting in Kashmir. They rarely make any noise. Infact some of these guys are bankers, engineers, businessmen etc., living quite well off in Pakistani cities...]

some of pakistan`s internal jihadis with `bite` are bankers, engineers, businessmen? and they are dedicated to fighting in kashmir? don`t tell that to tahmad/ylh/sarwari/scout/...

so these are the .1% you keep talking about and these guys, i imagine, form the workforce of jihad, inc. and jihad.com, eh?

Implications for India interview with stephen cohen

http://www.indian-express.com/ie20010916/cent1.html

...As regards the events of September 11, Cohen favours a military solution that will obliterate the perpetrators of this crime, and calls for cooperation between the US and India on the issue of fighting the global forces of terrorism. He recognises the link between the Taliban and Pakistan but at the same time emphasises that he wants the two to be seen as distinct entities in the region. Excerpts...

Do you think the attacks on the US lend themselves to a military solution or retaliatory action? What does the US see as a way out of this violent cycle?

Military force is an instrument of policy and politics, although in this case there will be some domestic pleasure from simply going out and killing some bad guys. However, I don`t see any kind of cycle: the people who perpetrated this were anti-American for a variety of reasons. Get them, and much of the problem is reduced.

Would you now subscribe to a Samuel Huntington kind of analysis where the attacks are being seen as a clash of civilizations, the open society versus the fundamentalists?

No, they don`t represent any civilization, they are fringe lunatics, which have been produced by many different cultures and civilizations.

Moving on, India in the past has expressed serious concerns on the issue of terrorism with very little reaction from the US. Do you see that changing now?

This is not true at all. For years, the Indians did not pay much attention to terrorism, and took the usual ``third world`` approach of blaming America for these events. This policy has changed now that India has been hit by foreign and domestic terrorism, but also with an insurgency that is both home grown and supported from abroad (they are different things, by the way). Yet India would not accept an FBI coordinator in Delhi until quite recently. Now, fortunately, we see the issue in the same way and there is active cooperation on counter-terrorism.

Could this form a basis for the US combining forces with India to combat terrorism from this region. Do you think India has a unique role because of its democratic status and geographical location to become a countervailing force in the region?

It has, formed a basis for cooperation already.

Breaking News: September 11, 2001 sadna,

according to farangi_kush, the TOTAL circulation of all english-language newspapers, magazines, etc is no more than 15000 in pakistan.

how about it tahmad?

Shadows of Hate chowk editors -

kindly delete the triple posting of this article. there are interactions going on at the previous boards.

thanks.

Every Nightmare has a Reason [...Farzana...a staunch secularist in the true sense of the word that is...]

sometime back, ferozk wrote an article on chowk - `let`s destroy the bamiyan buddhas`. scores of pakistanis supported it (i might even say a majority of them). and at the very least all of them `understood` it as well. feel free to check the interacts.

farzana versey, a staunch secularist, also supported the article, `understood` it as well, and finished with the punchline - `...besides, there are no hindus/buddhists in afghanistan, so there!...`

macgupta`s question - `so would it be ok, if the muslims were to be driven out of ayodhya and then the babri mosque destroyed?` went unanswered from farzana.

as have many, many other questions to her over the period of her stay on chowk.

but, `I demand an answer` remains farzana`s cry.

How Would Gandhi Answer This Attack? http://www.msnbc.com/news/629231_asp.htm

How Would Gandhi Answer This Attack? http://msnbc.com/news/629231.asp?cp1=1

...When I got Maj. Gen. Hamid Gul on the telephone at his home to ask if I could interview him, his reaction was guarded at first. ``What’s your nationality?`` he asked. ``American,`` I said. ``Are you a Jew?`` When I said I wasn`t, he agreed to the interview. ``I`m sorry to ask you that,`` he added. ``It`s just that Jews wouldn`t understand what I have to say.``

INDEED THEY WOULDN`T, and nor would most people. General Gul`s basic message is that Osama bin Laden is innocent, and that the attacks on New York and Washington were an Israeli-engineered attempt at a coup against the government of the United States...

If General Gul were anyone else, it would be easy to dismiss him as a crackpot. But here in military-ruled Pakistan, he remains an influential figure, even in semiretirement. And as the former head of Pakistan`s powerful Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate (ISI), its intelligence service, he had a key role in making Afghanistan what it is today...

Presumably Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage, who has been in a series of meetings with Gul`s successor, Gen. Mahmoud Ahmad, has been having a more realistic set of exchanges—though don`t bet on it. Mahmoud was on a visit to Washington at the time of the attack, and, like most other visitors, is still stuck there. ``It isn`t what you say,`` Armitage reportedly told him, ``It`s what you do.``...

How Would Gandhi Answer This Attack? romair,

[pentagon...The planners there spend a lot of time in the gym and have washboard abs, but it should be clear they have little understanding of Afghans. They have only proven to be successful when they have huge armament ratios fighting in flat lands. They are better than the Pakistani corps commanders at picking up garbage, however...]

spoken like a true mujahid. american generals must be pissing in their pants right now.

Open Letter to O. B. Laden romair,

[...If a multi-national force lands in Pakistan, and Pakistan is on worldwide television for even a few hours, what to talk of a few days or months, it will have finally gone beyond the US State Dept. and reached into the living rooms of America. This will be a public relations coup for Pakistan, and a disaster for India...]

have you gone completely wacko? just a while ago, you were arguing that under no circumstances should pakistan allow its ground to be used - air routes were ok. and suddenly it is a p.r. coup for pakistan and...a `disaster for india`.

oh...i forgot...you ARE all ears.

Open Letter to O. B. Laden romair,

[...i am all ears]

aah, so THAT was the problem all along! the missing thing is something in BETWEEN the ears. :O)

ok. about the network...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/americas/newsid_1544000/1544534.stm

...He has been described as a ``venture capitalist`` of Islamic extremism - running ``Jihad Inc`` and its subsidiary ``Jihad-Dot-Com``.

A group might come to him with a plan for which he might supply money - or he might put one group in touch with another - or he might come up with a plan of his own and find sub-contractors to carry it out...

Breaking News: September 11, 2001 http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/14/us.binladen/

...``Revenge alone is not the answer,`` says security & terrorism analyst M.J. Gohel. ``There has to be a complete eradication, an elimination of all the training camps.``

On top of that much of bin Laden`s support base lies in neighboring Pakistan -- through which money from around the Arab world is funneled to the Al Qaeda coffers...

Breaking News: September 11, 2001 #359:

``...Pakistan is vital to the survival of the Taliban and to its continued provision of safe haven to bin Laden. It is time for Pakistan to lead, follow or get out of the way...``

THAT is the conclusion of the author...rain or shine...

further, the geneva convention for land-locked afghanistan should also apply to iran, tajikistan, china...those countries are not being asked to `lead, follow or get out of the way...`

why is that urstruly?

Breaking News: September 11, 2001 #359:

``...Pakistan is vital to the survival of the Taliban and to its continued provision of safe haven to bin Laden. It is time for Pakistan to lead, follow or get out of the way...``

THAT is the conclusion of the author...rain or shine...