Lighting The Nuclear Fire
http://www.fair.org/media-beat/020425.html
``Ruppert excels at a selective vacuum-cleaner approach -- sucking in whatever supports his conclusions while excluding context and information that would undermine them. Meanwhile, he`s apt to tout unsubstantiated tales as revelatory. For instance, while citing an Indian press report that India`s intelligence service linked a Pakistani government agency to the Sept. 11 hijackers, it won`t do to point out that India would have a strong motivation for pinning terrorism on arch-rival Pakistan.``
Posted by
ylh
May 29, 2002 11:28 pm
Norman Soloman writes in his articlehttp://www.fair.org/media-beat/020425.html
``Ruppert excels at a selective vacuum-cleaner approach -- sucking in whatever supports his conclusions while excluding context and information that would undermine them. Meanwhile, he`s apt to tout unsubstantiated tales as revelatory. For instance, while citing an Indian press report that India`s intelligence service linked a Pakistani government agency to the Sept. 11 hijackers, it won`t do to point out that India would have a strong motivation for pinning terrorism on arch-rival Pakistan.``
Lighting The Nuclear Fire
Chowk`s designated clown Rsidhar uttered the following words of wisdom:
``These missiles are Korean and Chinese missiles, repainted as Ghauri and Hatf and what not.``
I have abstained from comment, because personally I think the missile technology and nuclear age is a mistake India plunged the subcontinent into. However, many of my inebriated indian friends, in their drunken stupor, half joking half seriously have repeated the above mentioned.. without any corroboration or any factual evidence, except that `Pakis are stupid they can`t make missiles`.
See we in Pakistan don`t seem to realize the over all effect of neo-hindu inferiority complex that has been sustained by a history read in classical `Vedic Golden Age` theory. Hinduvta and its earliest proponents, Golkwar, savarkar, and before them Chatterjee, all maintained Hindu superiority in race and culture over the `foreign races`, especially Muslim and Christian `races`. Infact Golkwar (I apologize for the attrocious spellings) maintained, that Nazi Germany should be the model for the revitalization of the `Hindu` Nation, and purging of the foreign races (amazingly indigenous muslims and christians) from Bharat Mata was an excellent idea. That if these `races` wanted to reside within the territories of India, they had to adopt Hindu culture, and acknowledge the superiority of Hindu culture, Hindu religion, Hindu spirituality, and Hindu civilization. There in lies the case for Pakistan ofcourse but that is besides the point.
A delusional Jawaharlal Nehru thought that his personal secularism (a delusion perhaps a tad bit more effective than Jinnah`s delusion about overriding the religious mullah by his secularist exposition on the eve of Pakistan) would undo the horrible effects of such a thought... but even the Congress Party pre and post partition was afflicted with this idea of the `Superiority` of `Hindu Race`. Even Gandhiism, which has been constantly seen (falsely in my opinion) as the basis of indian version of secularism has been utilized to philosophize the `Neo-Hindu Indian Nationalism` instead of the idealistic `Composite` Nationalism, delusional people like Nehru, Azad, and even Gandhi paid lip service to.
Such notions of `Racial` superiority are very dangerous. The fact that every Indian seems to be afflicted with such false pride and hopes actually shows how dangerously close we might be to war. A delusional and rabidly nationalistic `Hindu` Nation drunk on power and on the `victim mentality` might actually want a `final solution` in form of a `final war` against its ancient rival now reincarnated in the form of Pakistan avtar.
This final `war` will be to the Hindu mind like the `Mahabhrata war` from the Bhagavad Gita, in which the `final` victory would be of Krishna and Arjuna.. Pakistan undoubtedly is the reincarnation of the Kauravas to the Hindu Mind, and Pandavas are the Indians.. Ladies and gentlemen, we are faced with a God(s) obsessed primitive foe, which doesn`t know the difference between mythology and reality..
-YLH
Posted by
ylh
May 29, 2002 12:49 am
Myth Making Indian style:Chowk`s designated clown Rsidhar uttered the following words of wisdom:
``These missiles are Korean and Chinese missiles, repainted as Ghauri and Hatf and what not.``
I have abstained from comment, because personally I think the missile technology and nuclear age is a mistake India plunged the subcontinent into. However, many of my inebriated indian friends, in their drunken stupor, half joking half seriously have repeated the above mentioned.. without any corroboration or any factual evidence, except that `Pakis are stupid they can`t make missiles`.
See we in Pakistan don`t seem to realize the over all effect of neo-hindu inferiority complex that has been sustained by a history read in classical `Vedic Golden Age` theory. Hinduvta and its earliest proponents, Golkwar, savarkar, and before them Chatterjee, all maintained Hindu superiority in race and culture over the `foreign races`, especially Muslim and Christian `races`. Infact Golkwar (I apologize for the attrocious spellings) maintained, that Nazi Germany should be the model for the revitalization of the `Hindu` Nation, and purging of the foreign races (amazingly indigenous muslims and christians) from Bharat Mata was an excellent idea. That if these `races` wanted to reside within the territories of India, they had to adopt Hindu culture, and acknowledge the superiority of Hindu culture, Hindu religion, Hindu spirituality, and Hindu civilization. There in lies the case for Pakistan ofcourse but that is besides the point.
A delusional Jawaharlal Nehru thought that his personal secularism (a delusion perhaps a tad bit more effective than Jinnah`s delusion about overriding the religious mullah by his secularist exposition on the eve of Pakistan) would undo the horrible effects of such a thought... but even the Congress Party pre and post partition was afflicted with this idea of the `Superiority` of `Hindu Race`. Even Gandhiism, which has been constantly seen (falsely in my opinion) as the basis of indian version of secularism has been utilized to philosophize the `Neo-Hindu Indian Nationalism` instead of the idealistic `Composite` Nationalism, delusional people like Nehru, Azad, and even Gandhi paid lip service to.
Such notions of `Racial` superiority are very dangerous. The fact that every Indian seems to be afflicted with such false pride and hopes actually shows how dangerously close we might be to war. A delusional and rabidly nationalistic `Hindu` Nation drunk on power and on the `victim mentality` might actually want a `final solution` in form of a `final war` against its ancient rival now reincarnated in the form of Pakistan avtar.
This final `war` will be to the Hindu mind like the `Mahabhrata war` from the Bhagavad Gita, in which the `final` victory would be of Krishna and Arjuna.. Pakistan undoubtedly is the reincarnation of the Kauravas to the Hindu Mind, and Pandavas are the Indians.. Ladies and gentlemen, we are faced with a God(s) obsessed primitive foe, which doesn`t know the difference between mythology and reality..
-YLH
The Perfect Murder
Why must you always compare India`s belligerant Prime Minister/War monger with the Leaders of the US and Israel? The leaders of US and Israel, despite their faults, are trying to fight terror... Indian Prime Minister is a terrorist. See the difference?
-YLH
Posted by
ylh
May 27, 2002 12:12 pm
Samina Shah,Why must you always compare India`s belligerant Prime Minister/War monger with the Leaders of the US and Israel? The leaders of US and Israel, despite their faults, are trying to fight terror... Indian Prime Minister is a terrorist. See the difference?
-YLH
Lighting The Nuclear Fire
Cut n Paste..
What a stupid man that Brigadier...!
Pakistan`s real true enemy!
Posted by
ylh
May 27, 2002 12:12 pm
Cut n Paste..
What a stupid man that Brigadier...!
Pakistan`s real true enemy!
Lighting The Nuclear Fire
``The freedom in South Asia was led by British trained lawyers. Let new breed of professional South Asian entreprenuers, and not military generals and not corrupt politicians, lead the next change. The cooperation among these entreprenuers in Silicon Valley provides a glimpse of what can be achieved, if these entreprenuers are left alone and given the basic tools and environment to practice their art.``
Well said!
Posted by
ylh
May 27, 2002 12:12 pm
Anil,``The freedom in South Asia was led by British trained lawyers. Let new breed of professional South Asian entreprenuers, and not military generals and not corrupt politicians, lead the next change. The cooperation among these entreprenuers in Silicon Valley provides a glimpse of what can be achieved, if these entreprenuers are left alone and given the basic tools and environment to practice their art.``
Well said!
Of Violent Birth and Peaceful Death
Advertise Here
Najam Sethi`s
E d i t o r i a l
ndia’s prime minister says the “time for a final war” with Pakistan has come. But India’s defense minister claims India will not attack Pakistan until after the Kashmir elections in September. This can be construed as breathing space or deliberate deception. Meanwhile, India is marshalling its forces along our border. Worse, in an unprecedented exhortation full of religious symbolism, India’s leaders are urging their “Hindu” troops to “crush the Islamic menace”. India’s rhetoric is clearly in step with its physical capability on the ground; hence conditions are ripe for war by India. But will India actually launch war?
Pundits argue that war must have a compelling objective. In India’s case, it is to stop Pakistan from fueling the insurgency in Kashmir that is bleeding half a million Indian troops in the valley. But war is also not without heavy costs. In India’s case, these could range from a fatal loss of political face by the BJP government in the event of a military stalemate or setback in a limited war — which is most likely since Pakistan is capable of giving as good as it gets in a short, swift conventional war in a small theatre like Kashmir where the force-ratios favour it. Or, in the event of a wider conflict that leads to nuclear holocaust, the losses can be multiplied a hundred times over without any clear winner emerging. Thus India must think a hundred times before embarking on a war with Pakistan.
But pundits will also note that there is a better strategy than war in pursuit of given objectives. And that is to push the adversary into compliance by a credible threat of war without actually going to war. It’s like holding a person at gunpoint and asking him/her to hand over the wallet rather than shooting him/her for it and risking a murder charge. Is India trying to do that with Pakistan?
Certainly, India has managed to create the perception abroad that it means business like never before. That is why the international community is asking Pakistan to dismantle the Kashmiri training camps and stop infiltrating men and materials across the LoC before India’s patience runs out. Our generals have also noted that India’s political intentions and military capabilities have never synchronized so menacingly before. Thus, in Pakistan’s reckoning, the chances of India launching a limited or unlimited war are about fifty-fifty. What should Islamabad do?
One option is to prepare for war, tell India to go fly a kite and face the political and military consequences that flow from war. That would be stupid. No government or nation can afford to miscalculate the consequences of war, let alone ignore them. In our case, these could range from the worst-case nuclear holocaust scenario to the best-case military stalemate scenario. But the latter case would probably exact the same political cost from General Musharraf as the military stalemate (even victory) in Kargil did of Nawaz Sharif in 1999. Why is that?
There is one basic reason for this. The international community, especially the United States, is now sympathetic to India’s view that our Kashmiri “freedom-fighters” are their common “jihadi terrorists” in the same manner as the Al-Qaeda terrorists who are motivated by religious rage. Indeed, where our hawks are inclined to separate our “freedom fighters” from our sectarian extremists and Al-Qaeda terrorists, the world is convinced that they are of the same ilk with a shared hatred for the United States, Israel, India and the West. Thus India’s demand that General Musharraf crack down on “cross-border terrorists” finds a strong echo in Washington and elsewhere where this is seen as part and parcel of the crackdown promised by General Musharraf on all forms of terrorism last January. Therefore in the event of a conflict with India, however limited, there will be at least one casualty at the very top in Islamabad.
Another option is to call India’s bluff and do nothing. This is problematic too because India’s BJP is continuing to beef up its arsenal and shrilling its rhetoric, thereby painting itself into a corner from where it can only extract itself by lashing out at Pakistan.
At the heart of the matter is the Kashmir conflict. What lessons, should we have learnt from our experience so far?
First, that infiltrating men and materials into the valley will not yield the forbidden fruit. It didn’t in 1947-48; it didn’t in 1965; and it hasn’t since 1990. And second, that “Islamising” a liberation struggle as in Kashmir since 1990 or supporting an “Islamic” cause as in the Taliban’s Afghanistan from 1994-2001 does great harm to us since it alienates and angers the world against Pakistan and also sows the seeds of instability, violence and division within our own homeland.
Under the circumstances, General Pervez Musharraf’s road map is laid out for him just as clearly as it was last September vis a vis the Taliban and Al-Qaeda. He should implement his January promise to root out all imported, homegrown or exported forms of extremism, violence and terrorism. If he does that, he will be seen as having served the cause of Pakistan rather than succumbing to the demands of India or the United States
Posted by
ylh
May 25, 2002 02:13 am
Road map is clear Advertise Here
Najam Sethi`s
E d i t o r i a l
ndia’s prime minister says the “time for a final war” with Pakistan has come. But India’s defense minister claims India will not attack Pakistan until after the Kashmir elections in September. This can be construed as breathing space or deliberate deception. Meanwhile, India is marshalling its forces along our border. Worse, in an unprecedented exhortation full of religious symbolism, India’s leaders are urging their “Hindu” troops to “crush the Islamic menace”. India’s rhetoric is clearly in step with its physical capability on the ground; hence conditions are ripe for war by India. But will India actually launch war?
Pundits argue that war must have a compelling objective. In India’s case, it is to stop Pakistan from fueling the insurgency in Kashmir that is bleeding half a million Indian troops in the valley. But war is also not without heavy costs. In India’s case, these could range from a fatal loss of political face by the BJP government in the event of a military stalemate or setback in a limited war — which is most likely since Pakistan is capable of giving as good as it gets in a short, swift conventional war in a small theatre like Kashmir where the force-ratios favour it. Or, in the event of a wider conflict that leads to nuclear holocaust, the losses can be multiplied a hundred times over without any clear winner emerging. Thus India must think a hundred times before embarking on a war with Pakistan.
But pundits will also note that there is a better strategy than war in pursuit of given objectives. And that is to push the adversary into compliance by a credible threat of war without actually going to war. It’s like holding a person at gunpoint and asking him/her to hand over the wallet rather than shooting him/her for it and risking a murder charge. Is India trying to do that with Pakistan?
Certainly, India has managed to create the perception abroad that it means business like never before. That is why the international community is asking Pakistan to dismantle the Kashmiri training camps and stop infiltrating men and materials across the LoC before India’s patience runs out. Our generals have also noted that India’s political intentions and military capabilities have never synchronized so menacingly before. Thus, in Pakistan’s reckoning, the chances of India launching a limited or unlimited war are about fifty-fifty. What should Islamabad do?
One option is to prepare for war, tell India to go fly a kite and face the political and military consequences that flow from war. That would be stupid. No government or nation can afford to miscalculate the consequences of war, let alone ignore them. In our case, these could range from the worst-case nuclear holocaust scenario to the best-case military stalemate scenario. But the latter case would probably exact the same political cost from General Musharraf as the military stalemate (even victory) in Kargil did of Nawaz Sharif in 1999. Why is that?
There is one basic reason for this. The international community, especially the United States, is now sympathetic to India’s view that our Kashmiri “freedom-fighters” are their common “jihadi terrorists” in the same manner as the Al-Qaeda terrorists who are motivated by religious rage. Indeed, where our hawks are inclined to separate our “freedom fighters” from our sectarian extremists and Al-Qaeda terrorists, the world is convinced that they are of the same ilk with a shared hatred for the United States, Israel, India and the West. Thus India’s demand that General Musharraf crack down on “cross-border terrorists” finds a strong echo in Washington and elsewhere where this is seen as part and parcel of the crackdown promised by General Musharraf on all forms of terrorism last January. Therefore in the event of a conflict with India, however limited, there will be at least one casualty at the very top in Islamabad.
Another option is to call India’s bluff and do nothing. This is problematic too because India’s BJP is continuing to beef up its arsenal and shrilling its rhetoric, thereby painting itself into a corner from where it can only extract itself by lashing out at Pakistan.
At the heart of the matter is the Kashmir conflict. What lessons, should we have learnt from our experience so far?
First, that infiltrating men and materials into the valley will not yield the forbidden fruit. It didn’t in 1947-48; it didn’t in 1965; and it hasn’t since 1990. And second, that “Islamising” a liberation struggle as in Kashmir since 1990 or supporting an “Islamic” cause as in the Taliban’s Afghanistan from 1994-2001 does great harm to us since it alienates and angers the world against Pakistan and also sows the seeds of instability, violence and division within our own homeland.
Under the circumstances, General Pervez Musharraf’s road map is laid out for him just as clearly as it was last September vis a vis the Taliban and Al-Qaeda. He should implement his January promise to root out all imported, homegrown or exported forms of extremism, violence and terrorism. If he does that, he will be seen as having served the cause of Pakistan rather than succumbing to the demands of India or the United States
Abr ka Tukra
I think I have made it very clear on many occasions that it is not the concept of `South Asian` identity that is the problem, but its `misuse`. I personally want no part of it, but by that token I don`t wish to stop you from associating on this basis, though I regret that an individual of your eloquence (and possible brilliance, which I can`t comment on given that I don`t know you) is associating herself with an identity that in the long run will benefit no one. How about by presenting yourself as a Pakistani, you show how humanist Pakistanis are, thereby undoing these horrible stereotypes that the media has created? That is the way, I would have liked it.
You say the `South Asian community` is beneficial in addressing the question of `Hindu Fundamentalism`... I want to address this issue to on many levels:
1) As Pakistanis we addressed the question of Hindu fundamentalism a long time ago (Some 55 years ago to be exact, Mahasabha, Extreme elements of the Congress etc ).. now `Hindu` fundamentalism is not our problem. Our problem is Islamic fundamentalism, which will only be countered by a modern outwardlooking secular Pakistani identity. No other identity will be able to undercut this. Why do you think I am supported by say Patrick.. because Patrick realizes that secular pakistani nationalism is the real true answer to `islamic` fundamentalism.
2) `Hindu fundamentalism` is an abstract concept. It covers a wide spectrum involved.According to Dr.B R Ambedkar, Principal architect of India`s constitution, Even the most moderate and `multicultural` face of India ie Gandhi, was a Hindu fundamentalist. So how do you or how can you distinguish between someone who speaks of `South Asian identity` deeming muslims and/or Pakistanis to misguided younger brothers who will come back to the bosom of Hindumat and/or Bharat Mata, and those just want to nuke Pakistanis and even Indian Muslims out of existence. Granted the first one is more gentle type, non violent type, but the ideology is all the same.
The bottom line is that Hindu Fundamentalism might be a threat, but it is not a threat to us. It is a threat to India`s own secularism or supposed secularism whatever you might call it.
Our enemy is the `Islamic` fundamentalism.. which is not only a threat to the Pakistani secularists, but moderate Muslims as well.
I am glad we agree on something .. I am sure we also agree on the need of a secular democratic progressive forwardlooking and free thinking Pakistan... don`t we?
-YLH
Posted by
ylh
May 22, 2002 06:27 pm
Dear Samina Shah,I think I have made it very clear on many occasions that it is not the concept of `South Asian` identity that is the problem, but its `misuse`. I personally want no part of it, but by that token I don`t wish to stop you from associating on this basis, though I regret that an individual of your eloquence (and possible brilliance, which I can`t comment on given that I don`t know you) is associating herself with an identity that in the long run will benefit no one. How about by presenting yourself as a Pakistani, you show how humanist Pakistanis are, thereby undoing these horrible stereotypes that the media has created? That is the way, I would have liked it.
You say the `South Asian community` is beneficial in addressing the question of `Hindu Fundamentalism`... I want to address this issue to on many levels:
1) As Pakistanis we addressed the question of Hindu fundamentalism a long time ago (Some 55 years ago to be exact, Mahasabha, Extreme elements of the Congress etc ).. now `Hindu` fundamentalism is not our problem. Our problem is Islamic fundamentalism, which will only be countered by a modern outwardlooking secular Pakistani identity. No other identity will be able to undercut this. Why do you think I am supported by say Patrick.. because Patrick realizes that secular pakistani nationalism is the real true answer to `islamic` fundamentalism.
2) `Hindu fundamentalism` is an abstract concept. It covers a wide spectrum involved.According to Dr.B R Ambedkar, Principal architect of India`s constitution, Even the most moderate and `multicultural` face of India ie Gandhi, was a Hindu fundamentalist. So how do you or how can you distinguish between someone who speaks of `South Asian identity` deeming muslims and/or Pakistanis to misguided younger brothers who will come back to the bosom of Hindumat and/or Bharat Mata, and those just want to nuke Pakistanis and even Indian Muslims out of existence. Granted the first one is more gentle type, non violent type, but the ideology is all the same.
The bottom line is that Hindu Fundamentalism might be a threat, but it is not a threat to us. It is a threat to India`s own secularism or supposed secularism whatever you might call it.
Our enemy is the `Islamic` fundamentalism.. which is not only a threat to the Pakistani secularists, but moderate Muslims as well.
I am glad we agree on something .. I am sure we also agree on the need of a secular democratic progressive forwardlooking and free thinking Pakistan... don`t we?
-YLH
Abr ka Tukra
PS I still don`t understand why `Humanism` must be exclusive to `South Asia`... Why not the world?
Posted by
ylh
May 22, 2002 06:27 pm
PS I still don`t understand why `Humanism` must be exclusive to `South Asia`... Why not the world?
Abr ka Tukra
FYI Sec. of state, Colin Powell is a graduate of CUNY...
Posted by
ylh
May 22, 2002 06:27 pm
FYI Sec. of state, Colin Powell is a graduate of CUNY...
Abr ka Tukra
Please explain.
Posted by
ylh
May 21, 2002 07:48 pm
PS Who said you are not a real Pakistani?Please explain.
Abr ka Tukra
As per your other responses...
It is not the `Intellectuals` I have a problem with.. it is the `Intellectual-wannabes` I have a problem with. Perhaps you missed the `so called` before the `intellectual`. Ayn Rand.. now there is an intellectual. Intellectuals, the real ones, are Extremely necessary for any modern society... People like Raza Kazim of Lahore etc.
And your question about my family.. I wonder why that is important what I consider them or don`t consider them? Is there a new movement towards defining me crudely as an elitist, because I am from a small `Urbanite` middle class family which has held its own in a country where its often hard to do so.
Are you in some way trying to redefine my insistence on Pakistan-firstism... Read some history, you will realize that the elite always jumped in late on the bandwagon.. even in the Pakistan movement, it was the very end that Land lords and the aristocracy in Punjab jumped from the Unionist Bandwagon onto the league.. Like Hamza Alavi, another true intellectual, says the Pakistan movement was a movement of the `Salariat`.. the salaried class of the Muslim urbanites. (For Rehan: Ofcourse such history must be completely unknown to young `philosophers` and atrocious writers who take note that the young philosophers took note. Remember that Rehan Ansari?)
Hamza Alavi on Pakistan
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sangat/Pakislam.htm
So why must Modern Pakistani Nationalism be any different ?
Please read my other response as well.
Posted by
ylh
May 21, 2002 07:48 pm
Samina Shah,As per your other responses...
It is not the `Intellectuals` I have a problem with.. it is the `Intellectual-wannabes` I have a problem with. Perhaps you missed the `so called` before the `intellectual`. Ayn Rand.. now there is an intellectual. Intellectuals, the real ones, are Extremely necessary for any modern society... People like Raza Kazim of Lahore etc.
And your question about my family.. I wonder why that is important what I consider them or don`t consider them? Is there a new movement towards defining me crudely as an elitist, because I am from a small `Urbanite` middle class family which has held its own in a country where its often hard to do so.
Are you in some way trying to redefine my insistence on Pakistan-firstism... Read some history, you will realize that the elite always jumped in late on the bandwagon.. even in the Pakistan movement, it was the very end that Land lords and the aristocracy in Punjab jumped from the Unionist Bandwagon onto the league.. Like Hamza Alavi, another true intellectual, says the Pakistan movement was a movement of the `Salariat`.. the salaried class of the Muslim urbanites. (For Rehan: Ofcourse such history must be completely unknown to young `philosophers` and atrocious writers who take note that the young philosophers took note. Remember that Rehan Ansari?)
Hamza Alavi on Pakistan
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sangat/Pakislam.htm
So why must Modern Pakistani Nationalism be any different ?
Please read my other response as well.
Abr ka Tukra
Amazingly there is a thing you and I agree on... whereas it is true that I was affiliated with Columbia University for a brief period of time, I hope that columbia universityite comment wasn`t addressed to me.
City University is a kick-a$$ university and anyone who tells you otherwise is an idiot. Infact if you ask me it is one of the best buys in the US... I had left Columbia (and NYU) for Rutgers owing to financial factors, but I think I would have been equally happy at City University of New York. I have a lot of friends in all three Manhattan Universities mentioned above, and honestly the quality of intellect and scholarship of CUNY students (especially hunter-wallahs) is as high if not more so than Columbia and NYU. I don`t know whats the reason to be so insecure.
As for South Asian identity, it is an imagined concept because there is no such thing as a monolithic South Asian diaspora or a common goal... I have no problem in associating with Indians or anyone else if its for a cause that they seem to share.. but so called `South Asian` causes will always be hijacked by Indians and Pakistan will be undercut. I have Similar Apprehensions while associating with the Arabs on a `Muslim` level. Palestine always undermines Kashmir... I haven`t been able to get it across to you... neither has sarwari for that matter.
So here is the thing.. if you are feeling `Goody goody` as all of us do from time to time, associate on a Human level, with greeks, with turks, with armenians, with brazillians, with belgians, with the danish, with indians, with the chineses, with the bengalis, with everyone.. Don`t be exclusive to the imagined concept of `South Asia` which is frankly horse-faeces as an identity much like the `Pan-Islamist` nonsense we have been made to suffer for the past 50 odd years in Pakistan.
-YLH
Posted by
ylh
May 21, 2002 07:48 pm
Dear Samina Shah,Amazingly there is a thing you and I agree on... whereas it is true that I was affiliated with Columbia University for a brief period of time, I hope that columbia universityite comment wasn`t addressed to me.
City University is a kick-a$$ university and anyone who tells you otherwise is an idiot. Infact if you ask me it is one of the best buys in the US... I had left Columbia (and NYU) for Rutgers owing to financial factors, but I think I would have been equally happy at City University of New York. I have a lot of friends in all three Manhattan Universities mentioned above, and honestly the quality of intellect and scholarship of CUNY students (especially hunter-wallahs) is as high if not more so than Columbia and NYU. I don`t know whats the reason to be so insecure.
As for South Asian identity, it is an imagined concept because there is no such thing as a monolithic South Asian diaspora or a common goal... I have no problem in associating with Indians or anyone else if its for a cause that they seem to share.. but so called `South Asian` causes will always be hijacked by Indians and Pakistan will be undercut. I have Similar Apprehensions while associating with the Arabs on a `Muslim` level. Palestine always undermines Kashmir... I haven`t been able to get it across to you... neither has sarwari for that matter.
So here is the thing.. if you are feeling `Goody goody` as all of us do from time to time, associate on a Human level, with greeks, with turks, with armenians, with brazillians, with belgians, with the danish, with indians, with the chineses, with the bengalis, with everyone.. Don`t be exclusive to the imagined concept of `South Asia` which is frankly horse-faeces as an identity much like the `Pan-Islamist` nonsense we have been made to suffer for the past 50 odd years in Pakistan.
-YLH
Abr ka Tukra
The predilection for irrelevancy of the so called intellectuals never ceases to amaze me. On another board the same intellectual gave me a thorough beating by making me read her daily schedule of classes.
-YLH
PS And please No point in bringing Jinnah and Gandhi up in your reply. In response to an article on `Gandhi`s progeny`, they were most relevant.
Posted by
ylh
May 21, 2002 01:38 pm
`Poor ummi; she wilted in the heat`The predilection for irrelevancy of the so called intellectuals never ceases to amaze me. On another board the same intellectual gave me a thorough beating by making me read her daily schedule of classes.
-YLH
PS And please No point in bringing Jinnah and Gandhi up in your reply. In response to an article on `Gandhi`s progeny`, they were most relevant.
Drawing Palestine
I would have read your long posts to me but after reading this nonsensical, mischievious sentence, I decided against it:
you say:
``before I get yet another gentle reprimand..it`s not that I take YLH ever so seriously, but hey, words are powerful things``
Obviously you chose to just parrot anNy on this one. I am sorry, but if you guys don`t take me so seriously, there is no point in continuing with so many posts. Its amazing, when you don`t have a credible argument how amazingly people like you love to discredit others by making such condescending and air headed statements.
I am sorry, I cannot in good conscience continue to argue with a person who resorts to such devices. Hence as a matter of principle, I will not read the rest of this post, and the other post.. And frankly if you wish to continue to use such condescending, self righteous and stupid tenor, then I must request that you spare me your drivel.
Maybe just maybe you thought that attacking me was kosher, because I attack everyone.. well just maybe you will go back , read my posts and hopefuly realize that I haven`t till this point sent out any `insults` towards you. I have a very simple principle: Insult those in equal and even more forceful way than those who insult you.
Since you clearly couldn`t win the argument, you have resorted to insults, and I can not restrain myself any further... So instead of insulting yet another person for whom I had respect previously, I am leaving this thread.
-YLH
Posted by
ylh
May 21, 2002 01:38 pm
Ana,I would have read your long posts to me but after reading this nonsensical, mischievious sentence, I decided against it:
you say:
``before I get yet another gentle reprimand..it`s not that I take YLH ever so seriously, but hey, words are powerful things``
Obviously you chose to just parrot anNy on this one. I am sorry, but if you guys don`t take me so seriously, there is no point in continuing with so many posts. Its amazing, when you don`t have a credible argument how amazingly people like you love to discredit others by making such condescending and air headed statements.
I am sorry, I cannot in good conscience continue to argue with a person who resorts to such devices. Hence as a matter of principle, I will not read the rest of this post, and the other post.. And frankly if you wish to continue to use such condescending, self righteous and stupid tenor, then I must request that you spare me your drivel.
Maybe just maybe you thought that attacking me was kosher, because I attack everyone.. well just maybe you will go back , read my posts and hopefuly realize that I haven`t till this point sent out any `insults` towards you. I have a very simple principle: Insult those in equal and even more forceful way than those who insult you.
Since you clearly couldn`t win the argument, you have resorted to insults, and I can not restrain myself any further... So instead of insulting yet another person for whom I had respect previously, I am leaving this thread.
-YLH
Drawing Palestine
During the Israeli siege of Arafat`s compound 30 Human rights activists became Arafat`s human shielf out of their own will...
How many of them do you think were Israeli citizens and jews?
-YLH
PS Hopefuly the answer to that very important question will lay to rest the venomous snakes of hate biting each other in your minds.
Zionism = Realistic Humanism
Long Live Israel.
Posted by
ylh
May 21, 2002 01:38 pm
Questions for the Anti-Zionists on these boards:During the Israeli siege of Arafat`s compound 30 Human rights activists became Arafat`s human shielf out of their own will...
How many of them do you think were Israeli citizens and jews?
-YLH
PS Hopefuly the answer to that very important question will lay to rest the venomous snakes of hate biting each other in your minds.
Zionism = Realistic Humanism
Long Live Israel.
Drawing Palestine
If you honestly think that people like Rsaxena, whose only contribution to these boards has been insults and more insults is some how more annoying than me, who has always only retaliated... then so be it. It shows your skewed judgement and your personal imbalance. I can`t say anything further on this topic.
I know I must be very annoying constantly holding up the light of truth, fighting the age old stereotypes, and taking on sacred cows like Gandhi with facts. Truth often is a bitter pill to swallow. Even for the so called `Intellectuals`.
-YLH
Posted by
ylh
May 21, 2002 01:38 pm
Samina Shah,If you honestly think that people like Rsaxena, whose only contribution to these boards has been insults and more insults is some how more annoying than me, who has always only retaliated... then so be it. It shows your skewed judgement and your personal imbalance. I can`t say anything further on this topic.
I know I must be very annoying constantly holding up the light of truth, fighting the age old stereotypes, and taking on sacred cows like Gandhi with facts. Truth often is a bitter pill to swallow. Even for the so called `Intellectuals`.
-YLH
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