The Soft Option Dear Tahmed and YLH:

I am not at all against Ms. Versey`s right on criticism of India. Why should not she have? I have mentioned in one of my earlier post, how problematic Kashmir issue has become for the Indian muslims. Rightly or wrongly, many of them are seen with apprehension by their fellow country men, and you can not condemn that in a war-like situation our two countries are going through.

What I wanted to mention is that Ms. Versey does not have any coherence in her thought, and thus she actually made her a ``soft target``. YLH, there is nothing wrong that an Indian praise Pakistan, in fact that should be the case if we really want peace. But you just be honest to yourself, the qualities that Ms. Versey attributes to Pakistan, are they really Pakistan`s strength? Either she is very naive or she is ridiculing the intellect of Pakistanis at Chowk.

She is more than welcome to stay in our beloved country. But, why is it the religion aspect of the identity considered more stronger force for allegiance in case of Muslims than any other religions? She tried to explain how that is not the case for her in a later post, but did not sound very convincing.

Regards

cheraym

The Soft Option Dear Ms. Versey:

FYI, an elected prime minister was hanged, one is in jail, and another is in exile. Indeed there is no wishy-washiness in land of pure. I suggest you buy a one-way ticket (while singing never coming back, I will never come back)and migrate to the country which was made for only one reason, people like you should live in peace there. Why bother explaining what goes into the mind of politicians of a backward, inwardly looking, hyprocrite country? We all know it. Don`t we?

Ras, please do not watch hindi movies, I don`t watch them, why do you watch when there standard is so poor? It is bad for your system as it gives lot of heart-burn afterwards.

Should my friends at Chowk will accept a greetings for Ramadan?

cheraym

Headache and Heartburn Part of the interview of R. Sengupta with Mansoor Ijaz may be relevant to what is being discussed here.

http://www.rediff.com/news/2000/nov/28inter.htm

Solitude, may Allah protect you and give more power to your pen. Your crying out in this forum actually reflects a very sorrowful heart. But I am really curious all the killings ordered by Mohammad, are these true? How can a prophet order killing of people who he may anticipate as his opposers? In that case he may not have any parallel of him from any other religions, at least among Hindu prophets. Saints like Ramakrishna, or Avatara like Sri Krishna Chaitanya were very peaceful and conveyed the idea of unity in diversity. In fact, Ramkrishna had practiced rituals of every religion in order to experience them. Nowadays, Ramkrishna mission has become more philanthropic organization than a religious one.

You mention that they are authentic stories, So I take your word, however you should bear the responsibility of spreading the truth and the only truth as you know of course.

Regards

cheraym

Education Reforms: Yet Another Sham Dear Krashid, Tahmed, Sadhana, Pankaj, and Jay:

I am touched by your posts. It feels like we now belong to one family, that is one of Chowk. This touch of humanity has to be propagated in our people in both the countries. Jay, here I disagree with you. Think about poor villagers of Thar, Rajasthan and those from Baluch, Pakistan. What do they have common? A lot, a grinding poverty to name first, which denies them of any dignity this life or death have to offer. Who decides their fortune? the corrupt fat politicians, generals of our cursed lands. How do we change them? Let us try to find some answers collectively. Having peace between India and Pakistan will certainly help them when none of us can afford to have such a high defence/offence cost. It will not happen in one day. At least, here at Chowk we can try to understand each other.

I thought I should let you know why I felt that I should leave Chowk at this point.

1. The unchanged way of argument between interactors holding their personal believes and biases. Looks like interactions among us did not help. However I feel, it did, at least it did to me since I was missing YLH and F_Kush. I really miss one exciting young kid`s voice, that is of Yasser.

2. There was a proposal to write history as a joint project between Indians and Pakistanis. I thought it was a good idea, at least one step forward, but no follow up was provided here, neither from Chowk nor from the authors, although lot of us kept asking for it. So I wonder whether these are all empty talks then.

3. Last but not the least, work pressure at both home and U. I am scheduled to teach two courses next semester starting in January. One of them is new, so preparation time is pretty high. Thumb rule is for 1 hour class, one should spend at least 8 hours preparing for it, But if the course is not in one`s own area, add 2-3 hours more. So I was having panic attack given the state of my condition right now.

Umairr: I think you probably have grown a detest of me since you never answer my questions. But I am curious and serious about the following questions. You may ask why I single out you? There is no Indian contribuitor in Chowk of my knowledge who has a military background, otherwise I would have asked him/her the similar questions.

My questions to you:

1. Have your opinions of India attacking Pakistan unprovoked, or China is not a threat to India, or India will grab Pakistan formed when you were in military? Is that what Pakistani military believes? How many of Pakistani military will go for peace with India? Would you say 50% or more?

2. Why do you think separatist leaders like Amanullah Khan or Lone send their kids to London for study, courting and having a high profile marriage with high profile people attending while a poor Jehadi dies probably recruited with a meager amount of money? Who gives Amanullah Khan or people like him the right to run the lives of young Kashmiris or young Pakistani kids? How they are different from Jinnah and Nehru company? Here you can see I do not have respect for either of them, Gandhi may be, since he appeared to believe in relationship between your and our pepole.

3. You believe 100% that Kashmir problem is 100% indigenous. Umairr, this Kashmir problem has created a major headache for Indian Muslims. I thought I will give some personal perspective, chowk readers please forgive me, just scroll down if you do not like it. I have two very good Indian Muslim colleagues/friends, one a star performer of IIT Bombay, Ph.D from Purdue and was a star performer again in Northwestern and then in Dupont, another fellow, a mechanical engineer, a Ph. D from Moscow University, taught in Sweden Lund university for long, now here (giving their background is necessary as both of them can be called elites of Indian population, and atleast understand the politics) They told us that how they are torn between India and Pakistan over the Kashmir issue. Sometimes, they think India is better of without Kashmir, but that brings the burning question of their status as muslim in India. Their loyalty to India is undoubted, but thier loyalty to fellow muslim also can not be questioned. I know one of them supports Indian government stand on Kashmir while the other does not. So we gently avoid these issues when we meet in social gathering. If you want to know how Indian muslim population feels about it, read an article about the opinion of Delhi`s immam about this in Rediff couple of days back.

Umairr, your views count a lot since you and your kind are running Pakistan. See, we do not have any Indian contributors that I can pick, since they are ordinary people like me trying to earn some dollars without loosing much dignity and sanity!

This is a long post as if I am trying to make up! But have to reply Pankaj, my junior.

Pankaj: People like Dr. Balakotaiah are the occasional fragrances of our armpit country. He is rather doing well in Houston, although I do not understand much of his bifurcation and reactor stability work (my husband works in this area). My knowledge of reaction engineering is limited to finding out of mechanism of photochemical reactions. Did you know that two years back prestigious Coulburn award went to two Indians two consecutive years? One was Profeesor Arup Chakraborty (is in Berkeley now) from IIT Kanpur.

Looks like I am back with vengeance. Forgive me for such a long post, took more than an hour to write!1/10 th of my one class preparation!

Regards

cheraym

There are two raesons for deciding to with

Education Reforms: Yet Another Sham Dear Sadhana:

You can tell that I have somewhat lost interest in Chowk since this is one post that I had written within last three weeks. Why do you try a lost cause like Umairr? Reading his posts, I have derived the following:

1. India is going to grab Pakistan whenever it gets its chance.

2. China is a country of saints, thus India (forget the Tibetans, they don`t even come to our equation)should not worry at all, just be at the mercy of it!

3. India attacked Pakistan unprovoked in 1971.

4. Jehadis and jamatis are the best things Pakistan could have.

I could prolong my list, but what is the point?

No wonder Pakistan/India relationship is in a state where it is now, when you have military analyst like Umairr, an ex-military man himself! to all Pakistanis, with due respect and also accepting that India`s situation is marginally better, and we are no judge of you when our own state has so many problems to concentrate, I also am quiting Chowk like YLH (I guess, finally he has realised that his studies are more important than sending numerous posts to Chowk ). I probably will come occasionally to read the posts and will see the debate still going on who is better or worse while the world goes by taking giant steps towards progress, and the subcontinent (the armpit as Hamidm says)degenerates slowly but steadily!

Bye everybody, specially to Umairr and his valuable analyses! I do not know why I always got annoyed with Umairr`s so-called gentle/subtle approach vs. Krashid`s provocative one. I guess, what Jay says is correct. You can see where Krashid comes from, but not Umairr.

I will miss the posts of Sameer, Bilal, Temporal, Gymno, Amit, Sadhana, Shankar, Pankaj, Tahmed, Urstruly, Solitude/Shiraz, Feroz, Fairdinkum and YLH, and many more (do not feel bad if you feel excluded, I enjoyed them all) and above all Hamidm!

Long live chowk and your discussions. Hope you can see the light at the end of the tunnel someday while I will also be waiting. Hope we will exchange singers, poets, students, Asma Jahangir/Shabana Azmi one day, not shots, n-bombs, missiles and Jehadis.

Best regards

cheraym

Science Is A Dead End Career I agree with most part of the article. I really do not have the statistics with me now, but a renowned professor from India told us in a private gathering last year that many science departments in obscure universities are closing down in India as they can not attract students (forget about bright students), and he showed concern about it. I agree with Sameer, that this may be temporary trend, but closing down departments will be a permanent solution to a temporary problem, and can prove fatal later. Any body at Chowk with more info on the status of Indian Science to shed more light on this?

It has been the case since last 8-10 years that a Science Ph.D requires longer post-doc experience to get an academic position compared to Engineers. Now the engineers are also required to have at least 2-3 years of post-doc experince, before they get into good school. I had seen two friends of mine with Ph.D in Physics from very good schools struggling for job, migrating from one state to another with one year post-doc appointments. One in fact had to do a Master in Mechanical Engineering, before he got a job in San Diego as a Mechanical Engineer, not as a Physicist. He had his first job at the tender age of 34!

Regarding Universities`Ivory tower, just one comment,that the publication business is taking away the joy of conducting academic research. Due to peer pressure,people are publishing prematurely, recycling the same information in many journals and publishing has become an art. Citation index, impact factor are the buzz words. While other jobs can be compartmentalised easily when one gets back home at the end of the day, academic carries either a galley proof, or a reviewer`s comment, or a draft paper at home (when grading is not there). I have come across people who can publish 40 papers in one year, I wonder how since it is even hard to read 40 good papers in a year with all the things an academic has to do! It is only possible if one has a team of 10-15 post-docs with 20 graduate students! These are the people, either in chemistry or surface science doing incremental research! One should do a life cycle analysis of publishing a 10-12 pages paper including how many trees had to be chopped down in order to publish that paper!

Any way, I believe that true researchers/scientists are in their jobs because they enjoy it, not for anything else, and thus there will always be sufficient people to carry the torch! We have yet to discover sustainable energy source for our ever increasing demand, a material for aero-space industry which will not crash, burn, mangle after falling from 35,000 ft so that people do not die such a horific death! and so on! And without science, technology is like a family without parents!

Aap Amrika Main Hotay Hain?? (Do You Live In America) fairdinkum, I can assure you, that is not the case for Indian and Pakistani Americans also. When they are in one to one basis, humanity prevails and they are very cordial to each other. I have experienced that over the last 14 years of my staying abroad, and I myself have a collection of good Pakistani friends. They are just friends, not Pakistani, nor Indian, nor British, nor American. It is the collection of people when all ugly things start to surface. I believe most of the time good triumphs over bad, so wait for the day `` O subah to ayegi, o subah to ayegi, subah jaroor ayegi, subah ki intejar kar``, and try to change things around you. If we succeed in that we will be successful as a mass.

Should Pakistan Honor the Lahore Resolution? Umairr: ``The driving force behind the South Asian arms race is the India military buildup, which is far in excess of what it needs, to defend

itself. Even if both India and Pakistan make peace, this arms race will continue, as long as India keeps raising the ante``.

Statements like this of yours really lower the impact of your argument all the time since I have seen your posts here, and make them futile. Looks like you never consider China as a threat to India, may I know why? And you condone your loose guns the jihadis although you know very well that they are becoming a menace to your own society!

God save us if there is one!

Should Pakistan Honor the Lahore Resolution? Umairr: I forgot to ask you why India should not have offensive weapons in case of attack from China? You think if China attacks India, India should not attack China, just defend itself. Is that it? I really do not get your precious analysis. If you think I have misunderstood you, you have every right to clarify. I know I will not get a reply from you either, this has happened nth times here. Just wanted to vent my frustrations.

Salman, Padma, Fatwa Pankaj, your posts reflect your maturity and smartness. You do not have to match your posts with anyone here. Bilal is correct that we should stop bickering at each other. I hope you do not mind advice from a senior from your alma-mater.

Enjoy your research on porous media! I am going to see DNS in next week. Do you think he will remember you? Are you going to AIChE in LA? I am not going this year, otherwise I would look for you.

Bye.

A Different Story Pankaj, I think I left a note for you probably in Bina`s board by mistake. It is trivial any way.

Bye.

Salman, Padma, Fatwa Dear Hamid, your posts are witty, they are really enjoyable to read. I liked the exhausting list of celebrity men. Have you missed anyone there? Thanks for life in Chowk. Please, do keep write more. I wonder how you are as a man! as an ordinary man!

Regards

cheraym

A Different Story Sadhana: Actually Lata sang the whole song in Anandmath, however, the music is very different, and I do not particularly like the tempo of the song which is much faster than the one played at All India Radio. In fact, other novels of BC such as Durgesh Nandini, Chandranath were also made into big hits. These are so powerful stories that Jhumpa Lahiri, Arundhati Roy will bow their heads several times over their lack of imagination! Hope no fan of these women will be after me on saying this! Happy reading.

A Different Story Ras, I agree with you what you say essentially about negotiation. But you have to admit that the presence of Pakistan in Kashmir did not help the Kashmiri cause, rather it hurts, and a 180 degree reversal of the world opinion is solely due to Pakistani presence there. Americans and other western nations are seeing it a most dangerous flash point in the world, not because they are worried about Indians. They are worried about the Chinese gifts to Pakistan which may very well end up with different outfits of the Jehadis. Presence of China and Pakistan has changed Kashmir equation completely. There is real danger in the air, and I also share the same fear of Shankar and others. In case of eventuality, while close to several hundred millions will wipe out in India, Pakistan will be wiped out of world map. So let us not play with the words. I have not seen Mission Kashmir, thanks for bringing up that issue in this board. May be I should go and see it. We should be more responsible with our words, specially for the people who make a living out of these words!

A Different Story Urstruly, the translation of Vande Mataram at the board given by Juntec is the most accurate one. The song was written in Sanskrit, and there was not an iota of Muslim mention, let alone the hate part!

Bankim Chatterjee was one of the pioneers of Bengali novel writers. His works were rich with original sanskrit words. He was a powerful writer, probably a strong Hindu also. His Kapalkundla, Bisbrikkho, Krishnakanter Will, Durgesh Nandini are all time classics. I do not know whether you can get the translations of these novels, I had read them original. None of the novels portray him as a hate-monger, rather a man who explores the complications of human mind with great skill. Anandmath was a novel of different type. I have to read the translations what YLH mentions, before I can give any objective comments. Alas! where is the time? But I can certainly say there is no muslim hatred in Vande Mataram. It is about mother India conceived as a beautiful woman with all her riches.

The Other Asian Woman Urstruly#5, Nice poem, let me a give a shot at it.

Alas, I am an woman

Was it I who started world war?

Was it I who dropped the first atom bomb?

Was it I who ruined civilisation after civilisation?

Was it I who shot the 12 year old boy?

Is it I who is involved in rock throwing?

Is it I who is terrorising nations after nations?

I am glad that I am a woman,and try to find any shiny object to see my beautiful shadow, which I want the whole world to see. The beauty of a mother, daughter and a wife, without whom you will not be there to deliver your little poem!

Not so serious it may seem. Just to put some things in proper perspectives.

Cheers!