The April Fool Referendum Tahmed#73

Tahmed, has intellectual dishonesty ever won any arguments?Claiming -I dont understand- is the biggest cop out ever.

The environment of blasphemy laws is so complex that many processes are involved in the evolution of the blasphemy laws. Though the controlling equations of the blasphemy environment are themselves relatively simple- various laws,mullahs etc, it is almost impossible to derive from these the nature of many important processes and their evolution. Modern theoretical Islamic study has achieved much progress in the study of world problems, such as cousin marriage, etc - precisely because of their earthy claims.

Hasnt Islam claimed to have found solutions for most scientific problems? Hasnt it lived up to it?

These are important questions which will help us deal with important issues like - child marriage,cousin marriage, length of shalwar etc..

The April Fool Referendum Ana

``You are a bonafide champion of Pakistan, your politics is a reflection of your conscience, will you not grant others the same, especially if they disagree with you?``

Any comments on this part of my post?

Turn out was low? Ana, any idea what turnout in US general elections is like? A low turn out is not evidence of the kinds of malafide intentions Ms. Jahangir ascribes.

There is a larger question here, those want to continue a politics of confrontation, are they really serving the interests of Pakistan? As long as they are in a confrontation mode, they undermine themselves - on the other hand, were they to adopt a strategy of cooperation, the very same points they wish to make would be all more easy and all the more acceptable to the general public. A section of political opion is convinced that agitation will produce results they want. This is an error in my judgment, too much has already changed in Pakistan. The kind of pessimism that politics of confrontation feeds on is slowly (yes, granted it`s slow) being replaced by confidence. It`s an opinion, but I think this election will be a surprise for some politicians, especialy those think blackmail will work - they may find foreign governments less willing to be tolerant of mischief directed from individuals in European capitals and elsewhere.

Of Affluents And Sychophants Disclaimer:

Attention Chowkies.Post#8 is not by me.

Of Affluents And Sychophants

Chowk staff

Post # 7 is by imposter - the ``wannabe`` hobbyty. Please take note that such imposters seek to misrepresent me and also impose upon on you.

As you are unable or unwilling to prevent such mispresentation, I must take action and discard the the Chowk ID, ``hobbyty`` - Adieu

Of Affluents And Sychophants Hey , he writes exactly like me. Welcome brother

The King’s Gambit: Chapter 4 (The Aviator) Excellent! Love the pace, want more.

Of Affluents And Sychophants

We can be sure that events similar to those of Merrwala are taking place all over Pakistan. We must recognize two distinct but related failures. The first is the abdication of the state`s monopoly of coersion, of it`s responsibility to administer justice by upholding law; this failure has resulted in a moral collapse in society in general.

All the evils that Pakistan had sought to escape in 1947, now exist without encumburence. That the supreme court has acted is not enough; this event and similar outrages must be discussed at length and our moral and ethical failure highlighted, examined and we must for the sake of our selves and our progeny resolve that understand how these came about and how we can, must, prevent their reocurrence. Prime in our discussion must be a discussion of ``values`` or ``environment`` - which of these is shaping us - that we are poor and uneducated, does it also mean that we shall be depraved? What use then our religious teachings, our scholars, Imams and Maulana? Is this the result of their teachings? Is this Islam? Is this what Muslims are? If not, why not?

Shame on us, for we have become the posterchild of Orwellian formulations; Ghairat, no longer means protecting women and children, but rather doing them violence. Namardi, is no longer the grave insult it once was, today mardanegi is exemplified in gang rape. Caste, not the heinous sin that it is, but an element of cause in judicial deliberations, our daughters not persons but commodities; may Allah have mercy on us, to what level of depravity we have fallen.

Pakistan, a welfare state? God forbid, To compound failure, as if we have not been insulted enough, as if we have not wallowed in our depravity enough? Whatever little human dignity we can muster, we must opt for liberty, for limited role of government in daily life - Otherwise, if we choose utopian schemes to structure society on, we bring ourselves closer to the day when vile communists will offer us ``salvation``?

``Did you exchange, a walk on part in war, for a lead role in a cage``

The Good Wife ``Gurbeh ra shaab e awwal...`` - Billi Ko phalli rath...`` Why does compassion come as late as it does?

Of Evil Zionists and the Great Satan Harimanu

You say to me ``How about some questions that YOU can choose to answer?``

My answer to YOU: ``I choose not to answer, but good questions``

happy? No? try to live up to your promise to wait for answers - they will come, but you gotta wait.

The Riverbank

Why does Mahmoud belive he is ``entitled`` to recieve a scholarship? Deserving? says who? Mahmoud does. Self serving, self righteous are notions Mahmoud is not familiar with.

Mamoud skips Pakistan and inthe West will get a scholarship in the States, without one iota of thought, that someone else, another ``deserving`` was deprived of that scholarship, ``hopelessness`` is not a riverbank in some country, its the content of an empty mind .

In the US Mahmoud will do 2 jobs and a part-time job on weekends and go to school - yet it will not occur to him to do the same in Pakistan - You see, Mahmoud is ``entitled`` - its his ``right``. In the US the likes of Mahmoud, will work hard, harder and smarter than the native born, the likes of Mahmoud will obey every law in the US, the likes of Mahmoud will call the police man, ``sir``, in the US, The likes of Mahmoud will pay every tax, sales tax, state tax, federal tax, in the US, The likes of Mahmoud will line up and remain in line patiently, in the US. Not in Pakistan, the likes of Mahmoud will do none of this in Pakistan; the likes of Mahmoud will complain that in Pakistan no one stands patiently in line, that no one pays taxes, that no one says ``sir`` to the cop - why should he? When the going gets tough, the tough get a goin, in the hope of gettin a groin.

Does a Bachelor’s degree mean education in politics

ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF COMMUNIST FRAUD

From ``The Friday Times``

``Theatre of the oppressed

Alia Tariq Nawaz

...``Just as the principal goal of education is to change power relations in society and to create mechanisms of collective power over social structures, the principal goal of this festival was to aid groups in exploring and transforming the power relations of dominance and subjugation that instigate oppression.``

That`s boyz and ghouls - And all the time you thought going to school was to free you from ignorance - but you was wrong! A Madressah Mujaid is BAD but a communist Mujahid, especially a theatre group is ...! Oh it`s not the same thing, actors don`t have beards, they don`t explode bombs - Don`t they, now?

``..collective power over social structures..`` - the will of the majority equals justice. If the will of the majority is truly justice, what beef do Qaidianis` have or Christians have or Shiah have?

Group against group but all ready to feed at the public trough - all laying claim to their ``entitlement`` - I got your law right here, we got the numbers and that means we have the justice. happy days are back again; Blackmail for all. What could be more ``democratic`` - the biggest numbers get the biggest privileges - What`s unfair about that?

And once we have won over the ``social structures``, will that we that we in turn will have become the ``social structures`` that others groups will, in their ``collective`` righteousness, have to win over us?

Perfected humans through conflict - whereas laws exist to prevent and diffuse conflict, communist rely on conflict to bring about social change.

Does a Bachelor’s degree mean education in politics

GENERAL PRINCIPLES ARE NECESSARY BECAUSE WE USE THEM TO AS A GUIDE IN CONSIDERING THE PARTICULAR -

THE RULES OF THE GAME.

From The ``Nation`` dtd july 22

``Musharraf assures repeal of Article 89

From Shahzad Raza

http://www.nation.com.pk/daily/today/main/top3.htm

``Article 89 says, “The president may, except when the National Assembly is in session, if satisfied that circumstances exist which render it necessary to take immediate action, make and promulgate an Ordinance as the circumstances may require.”

advocate Supreme Court Syed Iftikhar Hussain Gilani, who also attended the meeting, told The Nation.

He said that after repulsion of the Article the ordinances would be made and promulgated by the democratically elected Parliament.

Gilani said that all the participants have expressed their satisfaction on the proposed constitutional amendments terming them necessary for the supremacy of the constitution in the country.

“We have also demanded of the president to allow the Bar Council to file complaints against the sitting judges before the Supreme Judicial Council,” he added. Under the law only the president can ask the council to take action against the sitting judges.

...The President told the jurists and lawyers that corrupt politicians have no future role to play in the national politics. He added that the corrupt politicians would not be allowed to do politics again.``

Notice, the learned advocate wants the legislature to make laws but also calls upon the President to promulgate law to allow the filing of complaints against sitting judges.

``Ham Khar ra me khaat ham khourma ra``

An English version would be ``wanting it both ways``

No rules at all.

Does a Bachelor’s degree mean education in politics Sadna

In other words the owners are not the landless peasants - by definition - right??

The state has no right to it`s own property?

Does a Bachelor’s degree mean education in politics Shankar

I understand your problem, I really do. You are unable to take responsibility for your lack of familiarity with certain points of view and your inablity to counter argument with argument.

If you were to take responsibility for your comprehension - you could never take the position that it is actually fair to blame hobbyty for shankar inability to comprehend. You claim not to comprehend, yet you have not sought clarification of any particular point or idea?

You know it`s not incumbent on you to get it - if you don`t get it, you don`t it. But if you want me to believe that I`m responsible for YOU, not getting it - well, that dog won`t hunt.

I have read your posts on this board - no where have YOU expressed a single idea relevant to the topic. An Indian loud mouth saying PAK ARMY ``BAD`` - is not an idea, its an emotion.

This person BAD, that person BAD, on and on - again, if you can present a reasoned arguement supporting your position on the ammendments, we may actually learn more than some Indian mouthing off with ``PAK ARMY BAD`` - we got that part already. By the way your idiots, like all things Indian, are better, than our idiots, I am proof. Why do Indians feel such a need to constantly measure themselves up to Pakistanis? The topic is Pakistani in scope, what does it matter what some indian does or not do, or in which way he or she does or does not vote? I mean how is it relevant?

The Riverbank ChowK Staff

Why have failed to put up my original post on this board?

My post is keeping with the rules specified by Chowk and its disappointing that Chowk equates editorial responsibility with censorship.

Does a Bachelor’s degree mean education in politics Chowkies

In my Post #61, I present the proposition that majorities do not obey laws that a civilized individual generally does. That majorities are uncivilized. As civilized individuals, we do not make a claim on the property of others, if one lives in a rented home, one cannot legitimately make the claim that they own the property by virtue of living on or in it - this is obvious. Yet majorities understand no such rules - In her post #55, Sadna quotes from an article in a Pakistan newspaper,

http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/jul2002-daily/23-07-2002/oped/o1.htm

``And so thappas defend almost one million tenants and their only real asset -- their land.... ``

Notice the one million persons referred to above, are referred to by the author of the article as ``TENANTS`` (as opposed to land or property owners) - Does the word ``Tenant`` mean the same thing as owner of the property?? Next, notice that in the same sentence, the author cites the TENANCY of these landless peasants, as ``their only real asset.`` Choori and Sina Zouri - this, only a majority will dare, because they ``feel,`` ``believe,`` that their will is the same as justice! - No concern about who actually own the deed to the property, that is to who is the lawful, legal owner - what about their ``right`` to justice? It is for this reason that we must always refer to ``general principles/rules`` when considering particulars -

My favorite portion is of course, the author of the article`s advice to us, ``These tenants may not be able to directly challenge the military`s assault on democracy, but do espouse the kinds of democratic norms that we should promote.``

You understood correctly! Theft is a ``democratic norm`` and further that ``we should promote`` it. Such a distorted underistandng of ``Democracy`` is precisely what imperils it. Democracy must be the sovereignty of LAW.

Do not misunderstand, the argument is not that the landless peasants have it good, because it is obvious they don`t have it good, they have pretty bad. The argument is that we must very cautious, indeed we must reject the notion that the will of the majority is the same as justice.

One of the major problems that has developed with the word, ``Democracy`` is its appropriation by communists; Witness ``democratic peoples work group`` and equally other ridiculous creations of communists. Our understanding of the word ``democratic`` is such that we tend to equate it with egalitarianism - an ideal, no communist can tolerate. Is there a ``democratic`` way to manufacture goods? Is there a ``democratic`` way to build a house? Will the individual tasks in these ``democratic`` functions be egalitarian? Can they ever be? We must be vigilant and not allow communists to misuse the words ``democracy`` and ``democratic``.