Sadia Afroze Ali Yasser,

I don`t deny the fact that Bhutto did make a significant contribution to Pakistan. But his actions regarding East Pakistan cannot be forgiven. What makes a good leader??? Can his `wrong` actions be forgiven ?? Bhutto played a major part in the East Pkaistan trgaedy, a tragedy which could have been avoided. At the end of the day, it all comes down to the `kursi`. This has been the tragedy with pakistan. No leader has been willing to compromise his/her `power chair`, even if it is for the good of Pakistan.

Sadia Afroze Ali Re: ylh #20

Sorry, to say this but Bhutto was no saint. I am glad that the three main culprits in the East Pakistan saga, i.e Bhutto, Mujib and Indira met their well deserved ugly ends! . Not only did they die a horrific un-natural death, but also they were unable to leave a legacy . All their sons died an unnatural death too!!! Could this be a punishment for the crimes they committed???

Sadia Afroze Ali What happened in East Pakistan is a dark chapter in our History. Any discussion on this topic must address the reasons why this tragedy happened.

The biggest support for the creation of Pakistan came from Bengal. The Muslim League itself originated in Bengal. Why was it then, that the people who had been at the front of the Pakistan movement, were the first to reject Pakistan? There must have been very strong reasons.

On the other hand, the provinces which now form a major part of Pakistan, i.e. Punjab and Frontier were slow to support the the cause of Pakistan. Yet Punjab today is the strongest supporter of the ideology of Pakistan. In the other regions, Sind, Frontier, Baluchistan, there have been incidents of questioning the creation of Pakistan. Why??

Unless we ponder on these issues we wont be able to understand the East Pakistan tragedy.

I would also reccomend, two books:

1. Witness to surrender by siddiq Salik

2. Jinnah, Pakistan and Islamic ideology by Akbar Ahmed

Falsehoods Galore I found the following article which might be interesting to Iconoclast and Studebaker

Source: http://www.afmi.mynet.net/growth.html

Economic Growth of Indian Muslims

By Akram Syed

According to a study conducted by the U.S. Commerce department, India`s growing consumer class, otherwise known as ``middle class,`` ranges from 100 million to 300 million people. This middle class is defined as those people having disposable income to purchase an array of luxurious consumer goods which are considered a daily necessity in the western society. This leaves an alarming 650 to 850 million people of India still struggling to make ends meet including a phenomenal figure of over 100 million Indian Muslims on the border of poverty line.

The country`s major shift in investment and trade policies in favor of free enterprise is succeeding in attracting investment by foreign firms which could mean better opportunity and a higher standard of living for a small percentage of people in the short term. For this phenomenon to have a trickle-down effect, however, India needs to invest heavily on its social and educational upliftment programs among its masses

particularly the minorities.

For the last four decades, many political parties have treated Muslims mainly as a ``vote bank`` without bothering about their social/economic/political well being. Unfortunately, other than giving them empty slogans such as `garibi hatao` and playing with their emotions through confusing situations like `Babari Masjid and ``triple talaq,`` the average Indian politician has done little for these suffering masses. As a result, the poor

not only became poorer but were pushed to the periphery of acute backwardness.

By far, the worst victims of this political mishandling have been the Muslims constituting about 12 to 15 percent of the nation`s population. They do not have a meaningful presence in any field. For instance, they are intensely poor having no land or industry, and at least 97 percent of them are non-existent in trade and finance. Millions are without jobs. According to Gopal Singh`s published report, only about 4 percent of Muslims girls and boys reached the higher secondary level, and only about 1.6 percent passed out of college. They fill less than 4.5 percent of government jobs and 7 percent of the seats on the nation`s high court.

Muslims receive about 2 percent of industrial licenses issued by the government, 3.7 percent of available financial assistance, and about 5 percent of loans approved by public sector banks. Among the 528 members of the Lok Sabha, only 23 members constituting 4.4 percent are Muslims. The scene is likewise in the private sector.

As the statistics mentioned above seem to indicate, Muslims have never been fully integrated into modern Indian society. It is almost pointless to debate which group is at the bottom of the barrel in a country with so many people of several religions living in desperate conditions. Muslims unfortunately confront the toughest barriers when trying to break into India`s growing middle class.

It is worth mentioning that the Indian Muslim community is somewhat responsible for its backwardness by having followed the self-centered leaders whose interest was focused more on non-economic and non-educational issues. The Muslim leadership has only educated the community on emotional issues such as the personal law and Urdu language. Its absolutely true that Indian Muslims have not placed much

emphasis on education. Many Muslims keep their children out of school thereby causing the community`s literacy rate to lag far behind that of other groups. The ``madrasa style`` of education has neither been able to promote skill-oriented or vocational education nor address the sense of priorities among the Muslim community.

The Indian Muslim community must come to the realization that the ``only freedom is economic freedom`` and education is the only vehicle from the present state of illiteracy and darkness to a strong progressive future. For several Muslims, education has been a force in transforming poor underprivileged individuals and families into productive community. For the Indian Muslims, education will offer an opportunity to gain

security, status, comparative affluence, and serve the nation by influencing the decision-making process as mainstream Indians.

It is the government of India`s responsibility to seriously make an attempt to identify the real problems and causes of backwardness among Muslims. The government must promote a grassroots educational initiative directed towards the educational upliftment of Muslims. Some type of reservation must be accommodated to motivate and ensure that the rural and urban minorities have the same access to and are treated equally in the educational institutions as in any other community.

The Indian corporations and business community should institutionalize and promote the transition of Indian minorities from the present state into the middle class by contributing for causes such as drive towards literacy, educational upliftment, etc. It would be in their best interest to have a market base of several hundred million skilled, talented, and educated people with enough buying power to sustain the domestic industry. Indian corporations should invest in community services geared towards minorities instead of funding the radical/fanatic political ideologies. Undoubtedly, some day when the Indian Muslims attain their

economic and social destiny, they will, having forgotten the present chapter of communal suspicion and conflict, face the problems of modern life from a modern perspective. Differences will exist, but they will be economic rather than communal. ``There can be no independence without financial independence.`` Every Indian Muslim should welcome these free market reforms as an opportunity for economic growth and

social status which could be achieved through greater emphasis on education.

Loyal to Pakistan? Why? Mr Ahmed your comments in ur reply # 44 , especially the last lines, are highly objectionable. The words you chose like ``pathetic``, ``filth`` etc, to describe Pakistan show the mind of not a mature person, but an arrogant, spoilt brat!!!!

In ur article you mention that you consider Pakistan as a source of shame for you. If you are not acknowledging Pakistan as ur country, why should you feel ashamed of it. The fact of the matter is that whether you consider Pakistan your country or not is irrelevant. By being born there you will always have this Pakistani Link. And sooner or later you will turn back to ur roots. If not you then your children certainly will. Look at the Afro Americans . They are trying to rediscover their cultural heritage. A couple of centuries ago they were forced to abandon their culture!. Consider yourself lucky. America today is the bastion of freedom! You have the choice of living an American life without compromising your values. And I know a lot of Americans and Britishers who have kept their morals and values and yet are accepeted by the society. Infact they are well respected.

Mr Ahmed dont blame the country and the ordinary Pakistanis! Blame the people who have been ruling Pakistan!

The Man they Called Mum&Dad Zeemax,

Saeed Anwer, Moin Khan , Shaid Afridi all hail from Karachi. The question is not about ethnicity but about how well you play for your country, and loyalty.

You cant deny that Miandad was treated unfairly in his last days. He was a true fighter for Pakistan. Even Imran Khan has said this. Miandad never played the traditional book cricket and watching him play was an experience.

I used to be a strong cricket fan. But the Pakistani team has dissapointed me. No matter how well you play, no matter that you are the best team in the world. A team that can lose a match for money has no respect in my eyes. People may dispute match fixing allegations, but I dont remember any rumours prior to the 90s. Why is it that these rumours are only surfacing while wasim akram is the captain. Have people got a personal grudge against him??? I dont think so!!!

The Man who would be King Sharif saheb should remember:

``huwey namwar beynishaan kaisey kaisey

zameen kha gayee aasman kaisey kasiey``

History neither forgets nor forgives.

Look at what happened to the three people involved in the tragedy of East Pakistan.

Bhutto, Mujeeb and Indira. All three died an ``unnatural`` death. Not only they but their sons also had ``unnatural`` deaths. Could this be a mere coincidence??? Sharif saheb take note!!!!!

The Price of Journalism Another incident to really show how ``sharif`` Nawaz

Sharif is. What is more disturbing and sad is the fact that when most of the world is preparing to enter the new millinium looking forward and hoping that the next century will bring in peace and more mutual understanding the ``sharif zadas`` of Pakistan have done all they could to drag the country back rather than forward.

I will irk many people by saying this , but I am glad in a way that the founding fathers of the nation are not around today to look at the state of the affairs.

After the Jang Group, the frontier Post, it`s now Mr Sethi. Benazir can be accused of many things , but even she did`nt take up on the press the way our ``sharif`` prime minister is doing.

Mr Sethi has been accused of tarnishing the image of Pakistan in India. As yet I havent heard of the Indian media giving importance to this issue. On the other hand the arrest of Mr Sethi will bring out this incident. And what Mr Sethi is supposed to have said in India ( if he even said it ! ) can hardly be objectionable to us Pakistanis. He would be merely stating the facts!!!!

I hope the journalist community of Pakistan makes the strongest protest againsr Mr Sethis arrest, and we the public support them fully.

Nawaz Sharif Plays Lady Macbeth If anyone has`nt checked out the following site then please do so.

http://www.amnesty.org/ailib/countries/indx333.htm

Nawaz Sharif Plays Lady Macbeth What surprises me is the lack of action taken by the women in our society. I don`t know much about the protests against saima`s killing. But what sort of protest was made by the ``educated`` women of Pakistan. In cities women form a major part of the teaching profession in schools, colleges and universities. As such they can play a major role in encouraging the authorities to take up strong measures to curb domestic violence. But it has to be a collective effort at a large scale!!!!!!

Shaam Ki Biathaak An amusing story I would like to share told to me by my Dad when he visited Lucknow in 1968. One of our realtives took my Dad to visit one of his friendS. This friend`s father used to belong to a ``nawabi`` family. Although quite well off once they were not doing so well now. But my father was really surprised to see that they still kept about half a dozen servants. He asked the person as to why he has so many servants when he can`t afford them. The person replied that these people (servants) had served his father and forefathers for generations. He just can`t ask them to leave. The person besides paying them used to look after their childrens schooling, clothes etc. He had even sent one of their sons to Aligarh. I guess this was part of a culture where ``loyalty`` to your commitments was quite important!!!

Shaam Ki Biathaak It is good to know that there are still people in this world who have a respect for their roots and culture. ``Salaam Alaikum`` may be a lot simpler to utter, but ``Adaab`` has an old fashioned charm, which never fails to impress!!!!

As in one of Jagjits - Chitras ghazal,

yeh daulat bhi leylo, yeh shuhrat bhi leylo

bhaley cheen lo mujh sey meyri jawaani

magaar mujh ko lauta do bachpan ka saawan

woh kaagaz kee kashtee, woh baarish kaa paani