Biases of the American Press Interesting article about India in Pakistani press :

http://www.newsline.com.pk/html/impressions.html

Sincerely,

What Constitutes Blasphemy? Response to Bilal Ahmad #681

Thanks for your insights on Baluchistan. And I am glad to know that there are no separatist sentiments in B`stan at present. I have no desire to see Pakistan breaking up further. However what you have highlighted as reasons for B`stan`s integration into Pakistan validate my own recipe for J&K. Provide genuine political representation in Indian mainstream, invest in infrastructure like never before, and within a few generations the insurgency would be forgotten. IMO J&K is not a viable state on its own given meagre indigenous resources and a volatile neighbourhood. Exactly the same for India`s north-east region where Congress` myopic policies have led to J&K like situations.

Have you read Robert Kaplan`s `Balkan Ghosts`? My main take-away from this excellent book was that for any nation burdened with diverse ethnic populations (like India), economic and policitcal integration is sine qua non, such that every community has a stake in status quo.

Cheers.

What Constitutes Blasphemy? Umairr`s questions in #592

I just want to add to Shammi`s response that yes, if you held a plebiscite in the Valley today, the verdict will be against India. But I believe that cessationary conditions can be transitory. Most of the American South would have voted for an independent Confederate state during the Civil War, but today ... In India, Punjab in the 80s was also a close-run thing. Tell me, what the result of a plebiscite on self-determination in Baluchistan would have been in 1948, 1975 and 2000.

Shammi has also touched upon the war-like conditions prevailing since 1989. However, history of Kashmir from 1950 to 1989 is not unlike that of many other Indian states - little attention to basic economics and frequent political intervention by Congress governments at the center. Crucial difference between Andhra Pradesh (which too suffered at the hands of Indira Gandhi before N.T. Ramarao floated his regional party and became AP`s chief minister) and J&K was that AP did not have a border with Pakistan.

Cheers

All Because a Flight Was On Time!! Excellent article Veeresh. Hope to see more of these soon.

I had a somewhat similar experience in a town called Chanderi, in MP, last month. Kalle Miyan runs a phone/fax kiosk near the bus-stand and is the resident expert on Chanderi`s past and present. Leading us through sights in and around Chanderi he brought up Hindu-Muslim relations in the town.

Chanderi is going through a mini-boom, thanks to good demand for its famous sarees and as long as the largely weaver population is gainfully employed, no one pays much attention to Ayodhya. But some years ago local politicians had greater success in creating communal tension when recessionary conditions had created temporary unemployment for most weavers.

Chanderi and its surrounding country-side, including the temple town of Deogarh, features remains of several historical monuments in Hindu, Jain, Buddhist and Muslim styles. Kalle Miyan`s passion for them, regardless of their religious associations, was especially heart-warming. He has written the text for MP Tourism Department`s brochure on Chanderi, parts of which have been included in MPT`s web-site as well.

Sincerely,

nachiketa

India-Kashmir-Pakistan: Perceptions on the History of Partition Response to Shankar (#85) “The GoI doesnt want a plebisite because we know what the result is going to be.”

In light of the changed demographic mix (due to large scale migration of Pandits from the valley), do you think it could be argued that the plebiscite resolution is now null & void ?

Regards

The Soft Option Posts number 585 & 586 are not mine. Some wires at Chowk seem to have been crossed.

Response to Krashid (# 579) - Trust you to bring religion into this.

And to Farzana Versey (#581)-

You say “I do believe that if someone does not agree or like a writer’s way of putting things across, they have no business to run down people who respond”. That is what I define as an illogical conclusion. It was the quality of your writing I was running down, not the interactors nor the quality of their writing. On Chowk often the interacts acquire a life of their own.

You go on to say “since I personally address only those who possess some decorum and have been here on a regular basis, I do not think a one-shot visitor has much worth”. Don’t put much value to research do you ? Refer my earlier posts # 107, 109 and 118. And even if I was a ‘one-shot’ visitor how can you conclude that I have not been regularly browsing Chowk ? Or does that not count as visiting ?

Another gem from Farzana Versey in the #581 – “I am not denying that there may be Pakistani symathisers among Indian Muslims, just as there are Indian sympathisers among the expatriate communities in the West”. The absurdity of this observation is not even worth articulating for most of the readers here but Farzana You say “I do believe that if someone does not agree or like a writer’s way of putting things across, they have no business to run down people who respond”. That is what I define as an incoherent argument. It was the quality of your writing I was running down, not the interactors nor the quality of their writing. On Chowk often the interacts acquire a life of their own.

You go on to say “since I personally address only those who possess some decorum and have been here on a regular basis, I do not think a one-shot visitor has much worth”. Don’t put much value to research do you ? Refer my earlier posts # 107, 109 and 118. And even if I was a ‘one-shot’ visitor how can you conclude that I have not been regularly browsing Chowk ? Or does that not count as visiting ?

Another gem from Farzana Versey (#581) – “I am not denying that there may be Pakistani symathisers among Indian Muslims, just as there are Indian sympathisers among the expatriate communities in the West”. The absurdity of this observation is not even worth articulating for most of the readers here but for Farzana Versey`s sake let me clarify that Indian muslims are not `expatriates` and India has not fought four wars in four decades with the `West`, so the analogy is juvenile.

The Soft Option Scout #56:

``If my countrymen/women and I are shown our true faces in the mirror by Indian interactors, I don`t see what`s wrong in showing them theirs.``

Like I said what a waste of your education.

Your Interact # 37 ``Yes, and we haven`t taken the strides that many Indian women have taken by dropping their clothes in front of any camera, farangi, or anything with a penis.`` holds a mirror to YOUR dignity, rather lack of it.

The Soft Option Re: SameerJB

``On this Eid Day, I see a bright future, happy and prosperous life for the grandchildren, great-grandchildren and great great-grandchildren of all chowkwallas.``

I hope you are right. I don`t think South Asia will see this prosperity until a few decades after the West does, if at all. We are in a mode of intellectual rot in South Asia -- as you have often stated, advancement only comes through intellectual exploration. Survival and religion keep us tied down...fundamental research is the last thing on our minds. We cannot forever borrow from the West`s inventions...we can`t afford most of the West`s inventions. For example, we haven`t even figured out how to provide clean drinking water and reliable power supply to our people (something the West figured out decades ago).

The Soft Option Law of Chowk interacts - Number of posts shall be inversely proportional to the quality of writing in the underlying article. If there was a point in Ms Versey`s article it was buried under too many incoherent arguments. Even by the standards of Indian journalism I think her writing is pretty deplorable.

The Soft Option Response to Bilal Ahmad #111

I am quoting an excerpt from your note :

``In the present-day Indian socio-political environment, Indian Muslims have rightly adopted a strategy to secure themselves from the fundamental anti-Muslim onslaught. Post-independence Indian history suggests that pro-Pakistani attitudes of the Indian Muslims were detrimental to their peaceful and secure existence. Indian Muslims now know well that any settlement of Kashmir that displeases the anti-Muslim Indian fundamentalists would lead to serious consequences against the Indian Muslims. Concerned (a Chowkwalla) rightly used the word “mayhem” for such a reaction. I tend to agree with him.``

I think this approximates to ``Indian muslims` apprehension of majority backlash``

On a broader canvass, what I have observed in many posts is that Pakistanis take up cudgels on behalf of Indian muslims. I would have no objection if religion was not the deciding factor in this. There are many other regions in India apart from Kashmir and many other communities apart from Kashmiri muslims which can claim, equally validly, that the central government has not done enough for them.

Regards

The Soft Option In response to Bilal Ahmed (#65)

To say that Indian muslims are suporting the government`s peace initiatives or denouncing Pakistan`s support to cross-border terrorism because they are apprehensive of a majority backlash betrays a cynical state of mind. Why can you not take a gesture at face value ?

Regards

The Soft Option In response to Bilal Ahmed (#65)

To say that Indian muslims are suporting the government`s peace initiatives or denouncing Pakistan`s support to cross-border terrorism because they are apprehensive of a majority backlash betrays a cynical state of mind. Why can you not take a gesture at face value ?

Regards

The Soft Option If one were to ask any Pakistani friend what the optimal Kashmir solution is from her perspective, the most likely answer is “self determination for the Kashmiris”. This is also the Pakistani government’s official position.

But self-determination only refers to a process and not an outcome. I can think of two positive outcomes from a Pakistani point of view – (a) total political control over the whole of J&K or (b) complete independence of the state on the Indian side of the LOC.

If it is (a) that Pakistan wants, and it is a legitimate desire, why does it not say so ? Mainly because such territorial designs are not in fashion today. Also because if that becomes their official position, the only solution would be war. Thus the espousal of self-determination, which will most probably lead to solution (b).



So now one asks the same Pakistani friend why she is interested in Kashmiri independence. If she does not have any territorial ambitions, the affair is strictly between Indians and Kashmiris. No locus standi for Pakistan. If she is keen to support cessation movements, why not Sri Lanka. If she is looking for an Islamic flavour in a cessation movement, why not Sinkiang.

I think the present day Kashmir problem is ultimately about lack of political representation leading to a huge amount of mistrust between India and Kashmiris. But cessationary conditions can be corrected – American Civil War and India’s Punjab turnaround are examples. Sometimes if a community gets respect in a nation it does not ask for independence. Tamil Nadu was a good candidate for cessation from India in the late forties and early fifties, while East Bengal from Pakistan was not. Difference was that Tamilians got respect in India (distance of 2000 miles from Pakistan also helped).

I speak for majority of the Indians in affirming respect for Kashmiris as a community. If my Pakistani friend is apprehensive of Kashmiris not getting a fair deal in India (which is what eventually matters) I submit that the Indian society has a good record of giving everyone a fair chance (without going into specific instances).

I have left out UN resolutions, Simla agreement, Kargil, Indian army atrocities, mujahideen etc because they have great potential for muddying the core issues.

Regards

Elections, Pakistani Style Re : Umairr #23

I think feudalism in India has been on the decline on account of the following :

a) More than Vinoba`s ``Bhoodan`` (literally - donation of land) the Zamindari Abolition Act of 1956 introduced significant land reforms. Incidentally, Vikram Seth`s ``A Suitable Boy``, which is set in the 1950s, presents an interesting account of the debate surrounding this legislation.

b) The communists pushed through land reforms in West Bengal in the 1970s, and have endeared themselves to the Bengali countryside ever since, notwithstanding their otherwise abysmal administration

c) In some other states, notoriously feudal historically, the cocktail of demographics, democracy and conscious use of caste-based politics has reduced the exploitation of rural poor (e.g. UP, Bihar, Tamil Nadu and parts of Madhya Pradesh). In the short term this has been sometimes violent, often economically destabilizing and has led to comic politics, but I feel this churn will have positive effects in the long term.

d) Some states, notably Maharashtra and Gujarat, have successfully experimented with rural co-operatives in a very big way, and raised the bargaining power of small individual members through collective production and marketing of commodities. Sugar and dairy industries in these states are good examples.

Sincerely,

Nachiketa

Arguments For Aryan Invasion Theory Do you have any comments on Rajesh Kochhar`s recent book on the history of Vedic Indians ? He has some very interesting theories. Aryans apparently lived for a long time in Afghanistan, and many of their legends, including both the great epics, originated from clan rivalries during this sojourn. The place names were later carried to the Gangetic plains, just like `Ayuthhya` was later built in the 1400s, in present day Indo-China.