Rifts, Fissures, Cracks, Gaping Holes #85 please show some respect to the old man. Thank you.

Kibbutz Criminals Farzana Versey, it`s not clear which muslims you have in mind. Are these muslims in countries where they are a minority, or just india or the US?
If india, what you are suggesting is that muslims should get deeper into identity politics. What you have in common with someone in a Bombay slum with a muslim name (but not a hindu or christian name) is not clear to me. I get the persecution part, that is, to anyone who hates muslims your financial, educational, cultural or social status does not matter. You are both muslims. But to the vast majority of people, there is a distinction. What you are advocating is reify what the islamophobe feels - muslims are defined entirely by their religion. I don`t believe this to be true but more and more I am detecting in your writings that this is where you are headed, Farzana Jinnah.

The Bubble Bursts #354 vakil sahib, you have presented no evidence. Case dismissed.

By the way, if you have trouble finding books in pakistan, contact Mr. Veeresh Malik from dilli. He writes here occasionally and is known to be a very generous person. He`d send you and other gandhiphobes in the family copies of Freedom at Midnight, gratis, so you don`t have to share.

The Bubble Bursts Sridhar, WWGS - do you know what this means?

Kibbutz Criminals On second thought, how about if muslims convert (back?) to judaism? Wouldn`t that be easier than sitting in Persecution Complex 101?

Kibbutz Criminals I actually liked this article for a change. I don`t find it whiny (very uncharacteristic of the author), but a mix of profunditiy and simplicism.
Persecution complex is very real. Holocaust was not the beginning of it but perhaps the end. European christendom would not allow jews to own land & farm. They had to migrate to the new world before they could discover the simple relationship that humans have to the plant kingdom.
It would be very difficult for muslims as a whole to acquire a real persecution complex because they are a majority in many parts of the world and are in control. How are pakistanis ever going to have a persecution complex?
On the other hand, if this advice is to indian muslims, then perhaps it has some merit. But instead of demanding the impossible, you should have said indian muslims should take advantage of the opportunities that are available already and not read too much into bathroom tiles. That way lies the future methinks.

The Bubble Bursts zeemax, one qualification my icons need is that they should not need me to defend them.

urstruly, enema was a part of Nature Cure that Gandhiji had picked up from some western doctors. The anus is considered dirty by hindus. Enemas and suppositories are western imports.

The Bubble Bursts zeemax, Gandhiji wanted to transcend the gender barrier (don`t aske me why). He wanted to be ``God`s eunuch.``
Whereas to the extent i understand it, it may have been a good idea, the effect of his peculiarities on others has gone unrecorded. I don`t think it was altogether healthy for the people who were the subject of his experiments.
The book by Manu Bhen, I have not read. Whether she really understood what her role was in these experiments and was a willing subject, we may never know. She may have simply been awed by the world-famous Mahatma. In my opinion, Gandhiji was insensitive about these matters. In my observation, great leaders never are credited with great sensitivity. They are not ``girlie men.``

The Bubble Bursts urstruly,
I hear the dictator is willing to give some holy hindu enema to anyone protesting him from abroad. You should contact the paki consulate in NYC.

The Bubble Bursts Yasser, do I smell desperation?
Look up my #154 to mohar11.
We have moved on to YOUR SPECIFIC claims. Looks as tho you`re still making up the evidence.

The Bubble Bursts I personally like number 2.
We should protest the cartoon in Lahori fashion by torching some vegetarian restaurants.

The Bubble Bursts Manu Bhen, one of the grand nieces that Gandhiji ``slept with`` wrote a book about him, ``Bapu - my mother.``

The Bubble Bursts Yasser, here`s your evidence list:

1. It`s true because I believe it to be true
2. Must be true because of the cartoon
3. It must be true because that`s the kind of man he was
4. I read it in a book I think. Look it up.

Congratualtions, Yasser! You`re ready to be a 2-bit politician in the motherland!

The Bubble Bursts Yasser, to repeat:

``Yasser, the article I quoted says ``he got naked (partly, at least)``. Nothing I have read says the girls or the other women were naked. Yet you persistently repeat that ``they were naked`` and you also said ``they`` shared bowel movements (whatever that means? yuk!)
Who are these they? ``

So you are saying, you decide what evidence is and can pass off rumor as evidence. Is that it?

The Bubble Bursts Yasser you disppoint me. You`re mostly a reasonable guy, a bit too passionate perhaps, but willing to engage in discussion. But really, you`re saying look it up. Where was enough evidence provided for ``sleeping naked``? Again, you do know what sleeping with means, don`t you, especially sleeping naked with?
It`s a strange enough thing already, without your unsubstantiated innuendo thrown in? If you need to harp on this, you really have a weak case against Gandhiji in general. Why else would you forsake logic and indulge in rumor mongering?
I can understand an occasional ``aslam644`` weighing in with ``ghandi slept with his nieces`` bit, but you, who has an obsession with history, and on a mission to debunk Gandhiji, should resort to innuendos strains your credibility.
Feel free to substantiate your case any time. Until then, please cease and desist.

The Bubble Bursts zeemax, certainly no offense taken. My icons can stand up on their own. They don`t need me. I`m noticing an unevenness in your posts tho. Sometimes you are informative, thoughtful and entertaining but at other times you are given to ugly stereotyping and a foul mouth. What gives?

Yasser, unfortunately you`re stuck in the 1920`s. Gandhiji did live until 1948 and wrote a lot in the 3 decades past the point where you are stuck. He was an amazing man.