Riots
But I do know..a little bit of India died.
And what is remaining, can be strangulated by lamenting, mud-slinging and and those incessant arguments.
What we have lost is the pretension of secularism? You might say, ``Of what use is pretension?``
Pretension is a thin veil (laaj) that restrains, that chains (even if weakly),that prevents from doing into a lot of things. Alas, with even this pretension lost, I can only see flames, rapes,arson and murders.
If Indians can learn anything from the Israel-Palestine conflict, it is that, this violence is going to hurt us both. Everybody is a Hindu, everbody is a Muslim. My country is drifting like a log tossed by one wave and the other.
People say, ``Indians have a pathetic memory; all will be forgotten and life shall go on``. But somehow, I am not very sure anymore. You see, we have lost even the pretension.
In parts, you come out with very understandable anger and disappointment, Farzana.
Events are only beginning to happen in India. In the final analysis, I would like to know who won and who lost, ``Ram,Rahim or India``!!
I have stopped using the word humanity, it died in India, a long time ago.
Pullu
Posted by
pullu
Mar 8, 2002 09:13 pm
I don`t care who died,who started it,who ended it?But I do know..a little bit of India died.
And what is remaining, can be strangulated by lamenting, mud-slinging and and those incessant arguments.
What we have lost is the pretension of secularism? You might say, ``Of what use is pretension?``
Pretension is a thin veil (laaj) that restrains, that chains (even if weakly),that prevents from doing into a lot of things. Alas, with even this pretension lost, I can only see flames, rapes,arson and murders.
If Indians can learn anything from the Israel-Palestine conflict, it is that, this violence is going to hurt us both. Everybody is a Hindu, everbody is a Muslim. My country is drifting like a log tossed by one wave and the other.
People say, ``Indians have a pathetic memory; all will be forgotten and life shall go on``. But somehow, I am not very sure anymore. You see, we have lost even the pretension.
In parts, you come out with very understandable anger and disappointment, Farzana.
Events are only beginning to happen in India. In the final analysis, I would like to know who won and who lost, ``Ram,Rahim or India``!!
I have stopped using the word humanity, it died in India, a long time ago.
Pullu
Memories of December 6th
Where The Mind is Without Fear
Where the mind is without fear and the head is held high
Where knowledge is free
Where the world has not been broken up into fragments
By narrow domestic walls
Where words come out from the depth of truth
Where tireless striving stretches its arms towards perfection
Where the clear stream of reason has not lost its way
Into the dreary desert sand of dead habit
Where the mind is led forward by thee
Into ever-widening thought and action
Into that heaven of freedom, my Father, let my country awake
(from Rabindra Nath Tagore`s Geetanjali)
Posted by
pullu
Mar 1, 2002 11:12 am
Where The Mind is Without Fear
Where the mind is without fear and the head is held high
Where knowledge is free
Where the world has not been broken up into fragments
By narrow domestic walls
Where words come out from the depth of truth
Where tireless striving stretches its arms towards perfection
Where the clear stream of reason has not lost its way
Into the dreary desert sand of dead habit
Where the mind is led forward by thee
Into ever-widening thought and action
Into that heaven of freedom, my Father, let my country awake
(from Rabindra Nath Tagore`s Geetanjali)
Memories of December 6th
20 more burnt to death..this time Muslims.
Wonder what the child had to do with Kar sewa?
What did the 50 year old Rikshawallah have to do with the mobs who burnt the train? Or the youth who was stabbed in the hospital...?
the pictures in www.hindustantimes.com say more.
I don`t care what Koran contains, what mullahs preach and what muslims follow, but the way Hindus are faring is despicable to say the least.
Our failure in strengthening Law and Order, Intelligence and other government apparatus, has resulted in these fundoos gving street justice. Not one of such guys know anything about Hinduism or Humanity. Indian has always been failed by its people, mainly Hindus.
Pullu
Veer Sanghvi couldn`t have said it better.
Read on....
One-way ticket
Vir Sanghvi
There is something profoundly worrying in the response of what might be called the secular establishment to the massacre in Godhra. Though there is some dispute over the details, we now know what happened on the railway track. A mob of 2,000 people stopped the Sabarmati Express shortly after it pulled out of Godhra station. The train contained several bogeys full of kar sewaks who were on their way back to Ahmedabad after participating in the Poorna Ahuti Yagya at Ayodhya.
The mob attacked the train with petrol and acid bombs. According to some witnesses, explosives were also used. Four bogies were gutted and at least 57 people, including over a dozen children, were burnt alive.
Some versions have it that the kar sewaks shouted anti-Muslim slogans; others that they taunted and harassed Muslim passengers. According to these versions, the Muslim passengers got off at Godhra and appealed to members of their community for help. Others say that the slogans were enough to enrage the local Muslims and that the attack was revenge.
It will be some time before we can establish the veracity of these versions, but some things seem clear. There is no suggestion that the kar sewaks started the violence. The worst that has been said is that they misbehaved with a few passengers. Equally, it does seem extraordinary that slogans shouted from a moving train or at a railway platform should have been enough to enrage local Muslims, enough for 2,000 of them to have quickly assembled at eight in the morning, having already managed to procure petrol bombs and acid bombs.
Even if you dispute the version of some of the kar sewaks — that the attack was premeditated and that the mob was ready and waiting — there can be no denying that what happened was indefensible, unforgivable and impossible to explain away as a consequence of great provocation.
And yet, this is precisely how the secular establishment has reacted.
Nearly every non-BJP leader who appeared on TV on Wednesday and almost all of the media have treated the massacre as a response to the Ayodhya movement. This is fair enough in so far as the victims were kar sewaks.
But almost nobody has bothered to make the obvious follow-up point: this was not something the kar sewaks brought on themselves. If a trainload of VHP volunteers had been attacked while returning after the demolition of the Babri masjid in December 1992, this would still have been wrong, but at least one could have understood the provocation.
This time, however, there has been no real provocation at all. It is possible that the VHP may defy the government and the courts and go ahead with the temple construction eventually. But, as of now, this has not happened. Nor has there been any real confrontation at Ayodhya — as yet.
And yet, the sub-text to all secular commentary is the same: the kar sewaks had it coming to them.
Basically, they condemn the crime; but blame the victims.
Try and take the incident out of the secular construct that we, in India, have perfected and see how bizarre such an attitude sounds in other contexts. Did we say that New York had it coming when the Twin Towers were attacked last year? Then too, there was enormous resentment among fundamentalist Muslims about America’s policies, but we didn’t even consider whether this resentment was justified or not.
Instead we took the line that all sensible people must take: any massacre is bad and deserves to be condemned.
When Graham Staines and his children were burnt alive, did we say that Christian missionaries had made themselves unpopular by engaging in conversion and so, they had it coming? No, of course, we didn’t.
Why then are these poor kar sewaks an exception? Why have we de-humanised them to the extent that we don’t even see the incident as the human tragedy that it undoubtedly was and treat it as just another consequence of the VHP’s fundamentalist policies?
The answer, I suspect, is that we are programmed to see Hindu-Muslim relations in simplistic terms: Hindus provoke, Muslims suffer.
When this formula does not work —- it is clear now that a well-armed Muslim mob murdered unarmed Hindus — we simply do not know how to cope. We shy away from the truth — that some Muslims committed an act that is indefensible — and resort to blaming the victims.
Of course, there are always ‘rational reasons’ offered for this stand. Muslims are in a minority and therefore, they deserve special consideration. Muslims already face discrimination so why make it harder for them? If you report the truth then you will inflame Hindu sentiments and this would be irresponsible. And so on.
I know the arguments well because — like most journalists — I have used them myself. And I still argue that they are often valid and necessary.
But there comes a time when this kind of rigidly ‘secularist’ construct not only goes too far; it also becomes counter-productive. When everybody can see that a trainload of Hindus was massacred by a Muslim mob, you gain nothing by blaming the murders on the VHP or arguing that the dead men and women had it coming to them.
Not only does this insult the dead (What about the children? Did they also have it coming?), but it also insults the intelligence of the reader. Even moderate Hindus, of the sort that loathe the VHP, are appalled by the stories that are now coming out of Gujarat: stories with uncomfortable reminders of 1947 with details about how the bogies were first locked from outside and then set on fire and how the women’s compartment suffered the most damage.
Any media — indeed, any secular establishment — that fails to take into account the genuine concerns of people risks losing its own credibility. Something like that happened in the mid-Eighties when an aggressive hard secularism on the part of the press and government led even moderate Hindus to believe that they had become second class citizens in their own country. It was this Hindu backlash that brought the Ayodhya movement — till then a fringe activity — to the forefront and fuelled the rise of L.K. Advani’s BJP.
My fear is that something similar will happen once again. The VHP will ask the obvious question of Hindus: why is it a tragedy when Staines is burnt alive and merely an ‘inevitable political development’ when the same fate befalls 57 kar sewaks?
Because, as secularists, we can provide no good answer, it is the VHP’s responses that will be believed. Once again, Hindus will believe that their suffering is of no consequence and will be tempted to see the building of a temple at Ayodhya as an expression of Hindu pride in the face of secular indifference.
But even if this were not to happen, even if there was no danger of a Hindu backlash, I still think that the secular establishment should pause for thought.
There is one question we need to ask ourselves: have we become such prisoners of our own rhetoric that even a horrific massacre becomes nothing more than occasion for Sangh parivar-bashing?
Posted by
pullu
Feb 28, 2002 03:55 pm
Fodder to VHP,Bajrang Dal,Shiv Sena ...Sad...but they have got just what they wanted.20 more burnt to death..this time Muslims.
Wonder what the child had to do with Kar sewa?
What did the 50 year old Rikshawallah have to do with the mobs who burnt the train? Or the youth who was stabbed in the hospital...?
the pictures in www.hindustantimes.com say more.
I don`t care what Koran contains, what mullahs preach and what muslims follow, but the way Hindus are faring is despicable to say the least.
Our failure in strengthening Law and Order, Intelligence and other government apparatus, has resulted in these fundoos gving street justice. Not one of such guys know anything about Hinduism or Humanity. Indian has always been failed by its people, mainly Hindus.
Pullu
Veer Sanghvi couldn`t have said it better.
Read on....
One-way ticket
Vir Sanghvi
There is something profoundly worrying in the response of what might be called the secular establishment to the massacre in Godhra. Though there is some dispute over the details, we now know what happened on the railway track. A mob of 2,000 people stopped the Sabarmati Express shortly after it pulled out of Godhra station. The train contained several bogeys full of kar sewaks who were on their way back to Ahmedabad after participating in the Poorna Ahuti Yagya at Ayodhya.
The mob attacked the train with petrol and acid bombs. According to some witnesses, explosives were also used. Four bogies were gutted and at least 57 people, including over a dozen children, were burnt alive.
Some versions have it that the kar sewaks shouted anti-Muslim slogans; others that they taunted and harassed Muslim passengers. According to these versions, the Muslim passengers got off at Godhra and appealed to members of their community for help. Others say that the slogans were enough to enrage the local Muslims and that the attack was revenge.
It will be some time before we can establish the veracity of these versions, but some things seem clear. There is no suggestion that the kar sewaks started the violence. The worst that has been said is that they misbehaved with a few passengers. Equally, it does seem extraordinary that slogans shouted from a moving train or at a railway platform should have been enough to enrage local Muslims, enough for 2,000 of them to have quickly assembled at eight in the morning, having already managed to procure petrol bombs and acid bombs.
Even if you dispute the version of some of the kar sewaks — that the attack was premeditated and that the mob was ready and waiting — there can be no denying that what happened was indefensible, unforgivable and impossible to explain away as a consequence of great provocation.
And yet, this is precisely how the secular establishment has reacted.
Nearly every non-BJP leader who appeared on TV on Wednesday and almost all of the media have treated the massacre as a response to the Ayodhya movement. This is fair enough in so far as the victims were kar sewaks.
But almost nobody has bothered to make the obvious follow-up point: this was not something the kar sewaks brought on themselves. If a trainload of VHP volunteers had been attacked while returning after the demolition of the Babri masjid in December 1992, this would still have been wrong, but at least one could have understood the provocation.
This time, however, there has been no real provocation at all. It is possible that the VHP may defy the government and the courts and go ahead with the temple construction eventually. But, as of now, this has not happened. Nor has there been any real confrontation at Ayodhya — as yet.
And yet, the sub-text to all secular commentary is the same: the kar sewaks had it coming to them.
Basically, they condemn the crime; but blame the victims.
Try and take the incident out of the secular construct that we, in India, have perfected and see how bizarre such an attitude sounds in other contexts. Did we say that New York had it coming when the Twin Towers were attacked last year? Then too, there was enormous resentment among fundamentalist Muslims about America’s policies, but we didn’t even consider whether this resentment was justified or not.
Instead we took the line that all sensible people must take: any massacre is bad and deserves to be condemned.
When Graham Staines and his children were burnt alive, did we say that Christian missionaries had made themselves unpopular by engaging in conversion and so, they had it coming? No, of course, we didn’t.
Why then are these poor kar sewaks an exception? Why have we de-humanised them to the extent that we don’t even see the incident as the human tragedy that it undoubtedly was and treat it as just another consequence of the VHP’s fundamentalist policies?
The answer, I suspect, is that we are programmed to see Hindu-Muslim relations in simplistic terms: Hindus provoke, Muslims suffer.
When this formula does not work —- it is clear now that a well-armed Muslim mob murdered unarmed Hindus — we simply do not know how to cope. We shy away from the truth — that some Muslims committed an act that is indefensible — and resort to blaming the victims.
Of course, there are always ‘rational reasons’ offered for this stand. Muslims are in a minority and therefore, they deserve special consideration. Muslims already face discrimination so why make it harder for them? If you report the truth then you will inflame Hindu sentiments and this would be irresponsible. And so on.
I know the arguments well because — like most journalists — I have used them myself. And I still argue that they are often valid and necessary.
But there comes a time when this kind of rigidly ‘secularist’ construct not only goes too far; it also becomes counter-productive. When everybody can see that a trainload of Hindus was massacred by a Muslim mob, you gain nothing by blaming the murders on the VHP or arguing that the dead men and women had it coming to them.
Not only does this insult the dead (What about the children? Did they also have it coming?), but it also insults the intelligence of the reader. Even moderate Hindus, of the sort that loathe the VHP, are appalled by the stories that are now coming out of Gujarat: stories with uncomfortable reminders of 1947 with details about how the bogies were first locked from outside and then set on fire and how the women’s compartment suffered the most damage.
Any media — indeed, any secular establishment — that fails to take into account the genuine concerns of people risks losing its own credibility. Something like that happened in the mid-Eighties when an aggressive hard secularism on the part of the press and government led even moderate Hindus to believe that they had become second class citizens in their own country. It was this Hindu backlash that brought the Ayodhya movement — till then a fringe activity — to the forefront and fuelled the rise of L.K. Advani’s BJP.
My fear is that something similar will happen once again. The VHP will ask the obvious question of Hindus: why is it a tragedy when Staines is burnt alive and merely an ‘inevitable political development’ when the same fate befalls 57 kar sewaks?
Because, as secularists, we can provide no good answer, it is the VHP’s responses that will be believed. Once again, Hindus will believe that their suffering is of no consequence and will be tempted to see the building of a temple at Ayodhya as an expression of Hindu pride in the face of secular indifference.
But even if this were not to happen, even if there was no danger of a Hindu backlash, I still think that the secular establishment should pause for thought.
There is one question we need to ask ourselves: have we become such prisoners of our own rhetoric that even a horrific massacre becomes nothing more than occasion for Sangh parivar-bashing?
Tattoo diary: Queens, New York
The movie with the song, ``Uthe sabke kadam..``
is ``Baaton Baaton mein``. A beautiful movie, though my personal favourite is the title song.
Golmal had the song, ``Aaney wala pal..``
You could also think of the song, ``Thoda hai thodey ki zaroorat hai..`` from Khatta-Meetha to fall in the same category.
pullu
Posted by
pullu
Feb 26, 2002 11:19 am
mona and roohi,The movie with the song, ``Uthe sabke kadam..``
is ``Baaton Baaton mein``. A beautiful movie, though my personal favourite is the title song.
Golmal had the song, ``Aaney wala pal..``
You could also think of the song, ``Thoda hai thodey ki zaroorat hai..`` from Khatta-Meetha to fall in the same category.
pullu
Is Thackeray a Terrorist?
It was a nice idea to touch on such a topic but the direction you took it was a trifle too disappointing. Many have already explained the technical and ridiculously obvious difference between the Pakistani statement (or demand say) and the Indian official demands. Even if Pakistan wanted to belittle India’s demands, the whole thing was laughable at best.
I would like to draw chowkies’ attention to Sattar’s (Pak’s) list of terrorists. If there ever was an example of the dilemma and the lack of ideas to respond to India, it is this. Less said the better. But I was also wondering if Pakistan made those demands out of necessity. Following Dawood,Memon and other crčme-de-la-s/h/i/t living in the holy land, need for Bal should have been expected. Since he just won’t walk into the right side of border, we now have demands to extradite him. But then Bal comes in a combo and cannot be delivered as a single item. With him comes the fascinating combination of Sri Sri Laloo Yadav, Sushree Mayawati, with JaiLalita and Mulayam as the sides. We shall deliver them to Pakistan with all fanfare at the wagah border in full view of the world camera and amidst typical Indian ho-halla. Let their be no doubt, our dear Mayawati will prove more than a match for their Bhutto. And no burqa will be opaque enough to hide her from the fiery lady. Laloo will be the best asset to the fundos. The way he can get the masses behind him, come devil,deep sea or USA, Pakistan will realize its Islamic dream sooner than Jinnah or Zia dreamt of. All of Mushy’s English ridden urdu will crumble infront of the charming rusty eloquence of the long sleeved laloo.And trust him for coming up with better ideas. Well all you(pakis) have to do is to keep him up with enough supply of fodder.
Mayawati can’t live without Kanshi ram. So you know what you’ve got to do.Jayalalita will kickstart your economy in no time as she needs her share of gold. You only have to entertain her friends. Mulayam will easily chose sunni or shia to get his work done.
There then exists only one problem if you do chose to have the combo. All these people need democracy. Talk to your Mushy to prepone the dates.
Come to think of it. Going by the logic of this Paki leader, we should also ask for Jinnah, for asking partition and hence abetting genocide; Zia, for not allowing inorities(Hindus) to participate as equals in their own nation. Since they are no more we can try them in absentia.
In the meanwhile I eagerly aniticpate more brilliant diplomatic moves from the trustworthy nation. Boy, I’m having fun.
Pullu<
Posted by
pullu
Jan 22, 2002 01:09 am
Farzana,It was a nice idea to touch on such a topic but the direction you took it was a trifle too disappointing. Many have already explained the technical and ridiculously obvious difference between the Pakistani statement (or demand say) and the Indian official demands. Even if Pakistan wanted to belittle India’s demands, the whole thing was laughable at best.
I would like to draw chowkies’ attention to Sattar’s (Pak’s) list of terrorists. If there ever was an example of the dilemma and the lack of ideas to respond to India, it is this. Less said the better. But I was also wondering if Pakistan made those demands out of necessity. Following Dawood,Memon and other crčme-de-la-s/h/i/t living in the holy land, need for Bal should have been expected. Since he just won’t walk into the right side of border, we now have demands to extradite him. But then Bal comes in a combo and cannot be delivered as a single item. With him comes the fascinating combination of Sri Sri Laloo Yadav, Sushree Mayawati, with JaiLalita and Mulayam as the sides. We shall deliver them to Pakistan with all fanfare at the wagah border in full view of the world camera and amidst typical Indian ho-halla. Let their be no doubt, our dear Mayawati will prove more than a match for their Bhutto. And no burqa will be opaque enough to hide her from the fiery lady. Laloo will be the best asset to the fundos. The way he can get the masses behind him, come devil,deep sea or USA, Pakistan will realize its Islamic dream sooner than Jinnah or Zia dreamt of. All of Mushy’s English ridden urdu will crumble infront of the charming rusty eloquence of the long sleeved laloo.And trust him for coming up with better ideas. Well all you(pakis) have to do is to keep him up with enough supply of fodder.
Mayawati can’t live without Kanshi ram. So you know what you’ve got to do.Jayalalita will kickstart your economy in no time as she needs her share of gold. You only have to entertain her friends. Mulayam will easily chose sunni or shia to get his work done.
There then exists only one problem if you do chose to have the combo. All these people need democracy. Talk to your Mushy to prepone the dates.
Come to think of it. Going by the logic of this Paki leader, we should also ask for Jinnah, for asking partition and hence abetting genocide; Zia, for not allowing inorities(Hindus) to participate as equals in their own nation. Since they are no more we can try them in absentia.
In the meanwhile I eagerly aniticpate more brilliant diplomatic moves from the trustworthy nation. Boy, I’m having fun.
Pullu<
An Indian salute for President Musharraf
Aren`t our loved ones dying now? Haven`t they been dying since a decade. True, a lot is our making. But the dead jawans, the dislodged kashmiri pandits, the RDXs around us, from our big cities to small are Paki contribution.Would you expect American reaction to Al Qaueda to be mellower just because the number at WTC got down from 8k to 4k?
Pain is not in numbers Prem. It`s pain, plain and simple.
{ on a lighter note, Bangalore nanage yavagalu, ``namma Bengluru,Our Bangalore,Apna Bangalore``}
rsridhar,
Full marks to you. That`s what needs to be done. And if Pakistan doesn`t comply, we should use all our might, in diplomacy and in battlefield. What else do we have the 4th largest army for?
Peace in peaceful times.
Pullu
Posted by
pullu
Jan 21, 2002 12:44 am
Prem,Aren`t our loved ones dying now? Haven`t they been dying since a decade. True, a lot is our making. But the dead jawans, the dislodged kashmiri pandits, the RDXs around us, from our big cities to small are Paki contribution.Would you expect American reaction to Al Qaueda to be mellower just because the number at WTC got down from 8k to 4k?
Pain is not in numbers Prem. It`s pain, plain and simple.
{ on a lighter note, Bangalore nanage yavagalu, ``namma Bengluru,Our Bangalore,Apna Bangalore``}
rsridhar,
Full marks to you. That`s what needs to be done. And if Pakistan doesn`t comply, we should use all our might, in diplomacy and in battlefield. What else do we have the 4th largest army for?
Peace in peaceful times.
Pullu
An Indian salute for President Musharraf
Musharraf is man who lives by buying time. Wriggling thru situations, he says one thing today another tomorrow and finally he comes down to say the same things again and again. Now out of the list of 20, he won’t hand over some because they are Pakistanis..( Azhar being their spiritual leader), and he can’t hand over others because they are not there. Why should we ever be warm to such a person? Every thug of our country gets a warm reception there. While the west eyes our engineers,doctors and even our nurses, pakis mop up the best of the lower rung.
If Musharraf is trying to change Pakistan and become some turk that is his problem.
Musharraf has to sort our problem that has flourished under his bushy nose. Pakis have never understood peace, not Tashkent, Shimla, Lahore or Agra. They have understood us now. And we have to keep up the pressure. And if he is does not deliver, by our JUDGEMENT, then we should go for War. Ofcourse our leaders are slowly climbing down but that’s not what the people want. Other than those Punjabi pigeons – Khuswant Singh(oof I hate this overrated dumbo), Manmohan Singh, Kuldip Nayar and other so called elites, the ordinary Indian, - Punjabi and everybody else wants to get it done with. Give them a feel of where it all leads(Brahma Chellaney is my man). Sweet talks should be left to sweeter times. And nothing to Musharraf but an olive painted gun.
Posted by
pullu
Jan 19, 2002 06:08 pm
No salute,no support and no sympathyMusharraf is man who lives by buying time. Wriggling thru situations, he says one thing today another tomorrow and finally he comes down to say the same things again and again. Now out of the list of 20, he won’t hand over some because they are Pakistanis..( Azhar being their spiritual leader), and he can’t hand over others because they are not there. Why should we ever be warm to such a person? Every thug of our country gets a warm reception there. While the west eyes our engineers,doctors and even our nurses, pakis mop up the best of the lower rung.
If Musharraf is trying to change Pakistan and become some turk that is his problem.
Musharraf has to sort our problem that has flourished under his bushy nose. Pakis have never understood peace, not Tashkent, Shimla, Lahore or Agra. They have understood us now. And we have to keep up the pressure. And if he is does not deliver, by our JUDGEMENT, then we should go for War. Ofcourse our leaders are slowly climbing down but that’s not what the people want. Other than those Punjabi pigeons – Khuswant Singh(oof I hate this overrated dumbo), Manmohan Singh, Kuldip Nayar and other so called elites, the ordinary Indian, - Punjabi and everybody else wants to get it done with. Give them a feel of where it all leads(Brahma Chellaney is my man). Sweet talks should be left to sweeter times. And nothing to Musharraf but an olive painted gun.
An Indian salute for President Musharraf
``Why am I constantly surrounded by fools?``
Remove all the mirrors in your room.
Posted by
pullu
Jan 16, 2002 01:30 am
#ylh``Why am I constantly surrounded by fools?``
Remove all the mirrors in your room.
An Indian salute for President Musharraf
Your article was more adulatory than a critical or even a casual analysis. It was written by a mesmerized fan who hears only half the things and the rest is filled by colorful imagination.
Going by past records, Pakistan’s present promises are no better than promises made in Tashkent or shimla. If resounding defeats could not alter their course, how much can a mere threat of war do? Musharraf is good at wriggling out of situations. What he is trying to stop now are exactly the things he stopped elected govts. from doing. India must not let its guard down. After years of baffling quietness by Indian govts. this is the first time India has stood for itself. It should not let go off its enemy because of a mere televised address.
I am quiet confident nothing much is going to change. Yes, it they walk one step towards peace we`ll walk two. And the same towards a war.If Kashmir runs in Pakistani bloods, then it runs more in ours. It is we who are facing it all directly. They are facing only its consequences. It is time to remind them (Pakistanis) that meddling with Kashmir will come at a cost. And we will decide the price and when they will have to pay.
Pullu
Posted by
pullu
Jan 13, 2002 03:26 pm
Harish and the doves,Your article was more adulatory than a critical or even a casual analysis. It was written by a mesmerized fan who hears only half the things and the rest is filled by colorful imagination.
Going by past records, Pakistan’s present promises are no better than promises made in Tashkent or shimla. If resounding defeats could not alter their course, how much can a mere threat of war do? Musharraf is good at wriggling out of situations. What he is trying to stop now are exactly the things he stopped elected govts. from doing. India must not let its guard down. After years of baffling quietness by Indian govts. this is the first time India has stood for itself. It should not let go off its enemy because of a mere televised address.
I am quiet confident nothing much is going to change. Yes, it they walk one step towards peace we`ll walk two. And the same towards a war.If Kashmir runs in Pakistani bloods, then it runs more in ours. It is we who are facing it all directly. They are facing only its consequences. It is time to remind them (Pakistanis) that meddling with Kashmir will come at a cost. And we will decide the price and when they will have to pay.
Pullu
India’s Communal Gamble
today`s day of glory:
http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20011026-25413235.htm
http://www.washtimes.com/commentary/20011025-97583115.htm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/waronterror/story/0%2C1361%2C581201%2C00.html
http://argument.independent.co.uk/commentators/story.jsp?story=101459
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/26/opinion/26FRIE.html
Here`s something interesting. I hear donkeys bred in Lahore(Pakistan) and Afghanistan are in great demand in Rajasthan fairs. We always knew that there are great donkeys in the land of pure. It is so evident on Chowk.
http://headlines.sify.com/164news5.html
Pullu
Posted by
pullu
Oct 26, 2001 03:39 pm
No community has ever enjoyed so much attention and spent so much time in the sunshine, for all the wrong reasons. And all roads lead to pakistan.today`s day of glory:
http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20011026-25413235.htm
http://www.washtimes.com/commentary/20011025-97583115.htm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/waronterror/story/0%2C1361%2C581201%2C00.html
http://argument.independent.co.uk/commentators/story.jsp?story=101459
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/26/opinion/26FRIE.html
Here`s something interesting. I hear donkeys bred in Lahore(Pakistan) and Afghanistan are in great demand in Rajasthan fairs. We always knew that there are great donkeys in the land of pure. It is so evident on Chowk.
http://headlines.sify.com/164news5.html
Pullu
India’s Communal Gamble
You call it the ``faults of the forefathers``. Another of your paki tricks, from the divide
and rule baggage. Come on, stop trying, you were never good at it. Try divide and get ruled...as has happened in Afghanistan.You are happy that your forefathers gave you Pakistan, but you lie ``ashamed,broken and beat``. You have lost your country as u say. Indian Muslim in nowhere near your stage of desperation and penury. So much to your forefathers insightful decision making.
Ghaznavi and Ghauri were born in pakistan? Whoah....were they Punjabis?
Man when r u coming to kashmir? May be one of those Indian army bullets will take
you to the land of virgins...{you call it heaven}.
Pheonix will rise from the ashes;flame is burning...Haallo aap kehna kya chahtey hain?
One candle is enough for the darkness of the Universe...? Yeh gaye saarrey galaxies, nebula, stars(red,white and dwarf)...
Hail the new Guru. I am sure Makhfi will believe you. Aren`t YOU?
In the mean time something more for you to shed tears.Let`s see if u can.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/nonfram/251001/dLAME79.asp
I couldn`t help laughing at Mushy`s statements,
``We are not wearing bangles...``
{Kshama kar dijiyega, hamein kahan maloom tha.}
So much Urstruly,Ylhish and sarwarish.
eeks...but sarwari tho bangles pahenti hongi.
enzoy
Pullu
Posted by
pullu
Oct 26, 2001 12:10 am
Urstruly:You call it the ``faults of the forefathers``. Another of your paki tricks, from the divide
and rule baggage. Come on, stop trying, you were never good at it. Try divide and get ruled...as has happened in Afghanistan.You are happy that your forefathers gave you Pakistan, but you lie ``ashamed,broken and beat``. You have lost your country as u say. Indian Muslim in nowhere near your stage of desperation and penury. So much to your forefathers insightful decision making.
Ghaznavi and Ghauri were born in pakistan? Whoah....were they Punjabis?
Man when r u coming to kashmir? May be one of those Indian army bullets will take
you to the land of virgins...{you call it heaven}.
Pheonix will rise from the ashes;flame is burning...Haallo aap kehna kya chahtey hain?
One candle is enough for the darkness of the Universe...? Yeh gaye saarrey galaxies, nebula, stars(red,white and dwarf)...
Hail the new Guru. I am sure Makhfi will believe you. Aren`t YOU?
In the mean time something more for you to shed tears.Let`s see if u can.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/nonfram/251001/dLAME79.asp
I couldn`t help laughing at Mushy`s statements,
``We are not wearing bangles...``
{Kshama kar dijiyega, hamein kahan maloom tha.}
So much Urstruly,Ylhish and sarwarish.
eeks...but sarwari tho bangles pahenti hongi.
enzoy
Pullu
India’s Communal Gamble
You are seeing things more than there is. But it`s futile to blame you. Because if you are going to magnify the problems and live under it, you are bound to see only dark clouds and doom.
Both Hindus and Muslims carry the burden of history and it shows in the way both the communities react when confronted with difficult questions. The riot situation is not as one-sided as you would have us believe. Do you think absence of police would lead to less violence (riots)? Don`t you think police WILL resort to firing if the protesters turn violent( I don`t deny recent accusations though)? Why is it that some of the most riot prone areas have significant Muslim population?Ahmedabad, Kanpur, Hyderabad or Kashmir for that matter. If hindus and our police are really out to exterminate Muslims, we should be having killings in almost every town and every state in India. I agree we are not even close to being a tolerant society. And secularism that we keep chanting is a farce. But that there is a huge population out there eager to embrace secularism is also true. We must recognise that there exist problems between the two communities. And Bajrang Dal,VHP,SIMI are all there to play on such differences. Sooner we accept the problems, easier it will be to address the difficulties . Agreed our society is changing and there will be an eventual confrontation with fundamentalists (of whom there will be muslims and hindus); it is upto us to strengthen the better elements. Instead of complaining and becoming distraught, we must make an unprejudiced and frank attempt to confront.
Sadna: You must already be geared to face many asking to ``exercise restraint``. But I know you are still in ``Bootstrap mode`` of the faith.
You are good in this mode too. :)
I went to the site that u mentioned(truthindia). One can`t help lauding the attempts of the person.
Pullu
Posted by
pullu
Oct 25, 2001 01:18 am
Shahid:You are seeing things more than there is. But it`s futile to blame you. Because if you are going to magnify the problems and live under it, you are bound to see only dark clouds and doom.
Both Hindus and Muslims carry the burden of history and it shows in the way both the communities react when confronted with difficult questions. The riot situation is not as one-sided as you would have us believe. Do you think absence of police would lead to less violence (riots)? Don`t you think police WILL resort to firing if the protesters turn violent( I don`t deny recent accusations though)? Why is it that some of the most riot prone areas have significant Muslim population?Ahmedabad, Kanpur, Hyderabad or Kashmir for that matter. If hindus and our police are really out to exterminate Muslims, we should be having killings in almost every town and every state in India. I agree we are not even close to being a tolerant society. And secularism that we keep chanting is a farce. But that there is a huge population out there eager to embrace secularism is also true. We must recognise that there exist problems between the two communities. And Bajrang Dal,VHP,SIMI are all there to play on such differences. Sooner we accept the problems, easier it will be to address the difficulties . Agreed our society is changing and there will be an eventual confrontation with fundamentalists (of whom there will be muslims and hindus); it is upto us to strengthen the better elements. Instead of complaining and becoming distraught, we must make an unprejudiced and frank attempt to confront.
Sadna: You must already be geared to face many asking to ``exercise restraint``. But I know you are still in ``Bootstrap mode`` of the faith.
You are good in this mode too. :)
I went to the site that u mentioned(truthindia). One can`t help lauding the attempts of the person.
Pullu
A Time for Renewal
There are few typos, few crucial verbs missing.
A long post brings its own problems.
Kindly Adjust. :)
And if you can`t, then... take a walk...
We are like this only. ;)
(if u have stayed in Avadh never use `I`)
Pullu
Posted by
pullu
Oct 20, 2001 04:28 am
To all those who do not skip my posts:There are few typos, few crucial verbs missing.
A long post brings its own problems.
Kindly Adjust. :)
And if you can`t, then... take a walk...
We are like this only. ;)
(if u have stayed in Avadh never use `I`)
Pullu
A Time for Renewal
I agree in totality with all that you have written. But you must also understand that nowadays whoever takes the name of Osama gets the front page. I have never known Bukhari to have amassed so much attention even in the Babri
days. Nor has Uma bharati got any more attention than him. But if Bukhari is going trans-national, if he is going agianst the official policy, if he can condone Osama then he asking to appear in headlines. I think the best response has been
from Shabana Azmi and Tavleen Singh(India Today).I have read innumerous articles and editorials criticizing Uma the anti-muslim,hindu fundamentalist;Uma, the pseudo-sanyasin and a stupid khel mantri. She was an object of ridicule
in every major daily when she had to change her constituency to get herself elected. Since I read TOI regularly, along with Hindu and THT, I can say
for sure that she has been amply demonised by the english press. She deserves no better attention than perhaps Ashok Singhal or Vinay katiyar. It would be unwise to cover every speech of theirs and put them in front pages. If doing so could lead to actions by the executive(or by the public), we would have put many of our problems behind bars. Inspite of tehelka exposure nothing has moved, it never will.
How many politicians have we seen being imprisoned in the last 55 years? Or is it that, none of them are corrupt? How many police officials,lawyers,judges and babus have been reprimanded for dereliction of duty? While leaders blame the officials, VHP leaders go scot free after forcibly entering the disputed site.
In our anger and our frustration we blame the most visible source. But even if they told, even if we knew, nothing would change. Somebody has to do something. {see..i used the word somebody``...}
Stuka:
You are right. BJP inspite of their many shortcomings do look like the best choice.They have an array of capable young leaders who seem to be comparatively less corrupt. The prospect of Mulayam,Mayavati,laloo or sonia`s chamchas ruling
us is frightening. But we must not forget that BJP is very media savvy, hence they always manage to put forth very united and pleasing faces. BJP is being pulled away from not doing many things because of its determined allies. To see what BJP can do once it gets majority, you must track events in Gujarat and UP. Both the states are its experimental fields for a much larger game. In UP
fashion shows were officialy banned. Local toughies threaten young people who celebrate valentines` day,New Years day. They have even demanded Tuesday to be declared a holiday, like friday in Muslim countries. In colleges in kanpur,
Girls are not allowed to wear Jeans because Bajarang Dal and VHP thugs feel our women folk ought to be more cultured. Over a period of time, it can only get worse. Behind every Arun Shourie,Pramod Mahajan and Modi are hard faced,hate filled, fundamentalists who have no idea of a plural India and will have nothing of it. India has always been defeated by internal dangers. Yes it is a tough choice, between the devil(fundamentalists) and the deep sea(pseudo-secularists). But then when have our politicians ever given us a choice.
Zafar:
Thanks for reminding Sulabh souchalay. I think that is a revolutionary concept and a lovely service. For a nation of dirty and broken toilets, Dr. Bindeshwar Pathak reminds us that we all can do something for our society in our own and innovative(if it so pleases us) ways.
Pullu
Posted by
pullu
Oct 19, 2001 06:56 pm
Sadna:I agree in totality with all that you have written. But you must also understand that nowadays whoever takes the name of Osama gets the front page. I have never known Bukhari to have amassed so much attention even in the Babri
days. Nor has Uma bharati got any more attention than him. But if Bukhari is going trans-national, if he is going agianst the official policy, if he can condone Osama then he asking to appear in headlines. I think the best response has been
from Shabana Azmi and Tavleen Singh(India Today).I have read innumerous articles and editorials criticizing Uma the anti-muslim,hindu fundamentalist;Uma, the pseudo-sanyasin and a stupid khel mantri. She was an object of ridicule
in every major daily when she had to change her constituency to get herself elected. Since I read TOI regularly, along with Hindu and THT, I can say
for sure that she has been amply demonised by the english press. She deserves no better attention than perhaps Ashok Singhal or Vinay katiyar. It would be unwise to cover every speech of theirs and put them in front pages. If doing so could lead to actions by the executive(or by the public), we would have put many of our problems behind bars. Inspite of tehelka exposure nothing has moved, it never will.
How many politicians have we seen being imprisoned in the last 55 years? Or is it that, none of them are corrupt? How many police officials,lawyers,judges and babus have been reprimanded for dereliction of duty? While leaders blame the officials, VHP leaders go scot free after forcibly entering the disputed site.
In our anger and our frustration we blame the most visible source. But even if they told, even if we knew, nothing would change. Somebody has to do something. {see..i used the word somebody``...}
Stuka:
You are right. BJP inspite of their many shortcomings do look like the best choice.They have an array of capable young leaders who seem to be comparatively less corrupt. The prospect of Mulayam,Mayavati,laloo or sonia`s chamchas ruling
us is frightening. But we must not forget that BJP is very media savvy, hence they always manage to put forth very united and pleasing faces. BJP is being pulled away from not doing many things because of its determined allies. To see what BJP can do once it gets majority, you must track events in Gujarat and UP. Both the states are its experimental fields for a much larger game. In UP
fashion shows were officialy banned. Local toughies threaten young people who celebrate valentines` day,New Years day. They have even demanded Tuesday to be declared a holiday, like friday in Muslim countries. In colleges in kanpur,
Girls are not allowed to wear Jeans because Bajarang Dal and VHP thugs feel our women folk ought to be more cultured. Over a period of time, it can only get worse. Behind every Arun Shourie,Pramod Mahajan and Modi are hard faced,hate filled, fundamentalists who have no idea of a plural India and will have nothing of it. India has always been defeated by internal dangers. Yes it is a tough choice, between the devil(fundamentalists) and the deep sea(pseudo-secularists). But then when have our politicians ever given us a choice.
Zafar:
Thanks for reminding Sulabh souchalay. I think that is a revolutionary concept and a lovely service. For a nation of dirty and broken toilets, Dr. Bindeshwar Pathak reminds us that we all can do something for our society in our own and innovative(if it so pleases us) ways.
Pullu
A Time for Renewal
It has created enough ripples in the public and in the government circles. There is hardly any distinction between youth wing of BJP, bajrang dal or vhp. They all feed on one another. Uma Bharati has always been known to be anti-muslim
and making her a minister does not change anything that constitues her. It is jarring to see her in saffron clothes;for that matter saffron robe around any politician. I am very positive BJP will get a nice drubbing in the coming elections, whatever it might try. It lost all the seats in the recent local elections in kanpur. Kanpur being the hotbed of BJP(bajrang dal,VHP) activity. Though Rajnath Singh does appear to be in control and more capable...BJP must go. Further I hated Vajpayee when he invited Mushy for talks. Old man is in a hurry to enter the good pages of History.
Sadna:
I think you are being very harsh on TOI. It`s not that bad a paper..yes it certainly isn`t an example of a vanguard of journalism. It`s sunday articles,cartoon strips,movie reviews, and ofcourse R.K.Laxman`s -``You Said It``, are very good.As a newspaper with an opinion, I would rather say, it stays out of controversies. :)For that matter- Hindu,THT,Pioneer are biased too.
It has a very strong local flavour. City after after city has been conquered by TOI, sending local papers for cover. The only paper that has given it a fight is the Hindustan Times. In Delhi it is a neck to neck fight for the top. What I mean is, come on give TOI it`s due. Kam se kam pehley din tho raddi nahin hai.
Zafar:
In recent times that is the only nice thing to have happened there. I won`t say more as I am very passionate about that ``lost paradise``.
Pullu
Posted by
pullu
Oct 18, 2001 08:48 pm
I agree totally with chowkies here that the incident at Taj was a very shameful one. It has been unfairly concealed and failed to get the front pages in most dailies. But it does not mean that the incident has not been taken note of.It has created enough ripples in the public and in the government circles. There is hardly any distinction between youth wing of BJP, bajrang dal or vhp. They all feed on one another. Uma Bharati has always been known to be anti-muslim
and making her a minister does not change anything that constitues her. It is jarring to see her in saffron clothes;for that matter saffron robe around any politician. I am very positive BJP will get a nice drubbing in the coming elections, whatever it might try. It lost all the seats in the recent local elections in kanpur. Kanpur being the hotbed of BJP(bajrang dal,VHP) activity. Though Rajnath Singh does appear to be in control and more capable...BJP must go. Further I hated Vajpayee when he invited Mushy for talks. Old man is in a hurry to enter the good pages of History.
Sadna:
I think you are being very harsh on TOI. It`s not that bad a paper..yes it certainly isn`t an example of a vanguard of journalism. It`s sunday articles,cartoon strips,movie reviews, and ofcourse R.K.Laxman`s -``You Said It``, are very good.As a newspaper with an opinion, I would rather say, it stays out of controversies. :)For that matter- Hindu,THT,Pioneer are biased too.
It has a very strong local flavour. City after after city has been conquered by TOI, sending local papers for cover. The only paper that has given it a fight is the Hindustan Times. In Delhi it is a neck to neck fight for the top. What I mean is, come on give TOI it`s due. Kam se kam pehley din tho raddi nahin hai.
Zafar:
In recent times that is the only nice thing to have happened there. I won`t say more as I am very passionate about that ``lost paradise``.
Pullu
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