Worldwide India-Pakistan peace movement begins?
The US is paying Pakistan (aid) for assisting in its war against Al Qaeda, why shouldn’t India pay for the same effort.(ENDQUOTE)
Let me get this straight. India should Pakistan money to take the gun off its head ? !!
In New York we call this mugging. You ``pay`` the mugger to go away.
Posted by
ratiocinator
Jul 16, 2002 01:06 pm
(QUOTE) Originally posted by Tehsin Abbasi:The US is paying Pakistan (aid) for assisting in its war against Al Qaeda, why shouldn’t India pay for the same effort.(ENDQUOTE)
Let me get this straight. India should Pakistan money to take the gun off its head ? !!
In New York we call this mugging. You ``pay`` the mugger to go away.
The Wages of Obedience
``WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO THE MULLAH FROM DETROIT????????
(I`m warning you now, no ransom will be paid.)``
I`m afraid we will have to pay a ransom....to make him keep him there ! :)
Posted by
ratiocinator
Feb 16, 2002 04:14 pm
Zafar Sahab``WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO THE MULLAH FROM DETROIT????????
(I`m warning you now, no ransom will be paid.)``
I`m afraid we will have to pay a ransom....to make him keep him there ! :)
Is Thackeray a Terrorist?
Your minister was ``making a point`` ? Pray what point is that.
Bal Thackeray is an Indian ruffian and he commits his crimes in India against Indians. There is a judicial system here that will deal with it. Bottomline: he has not committed any crimes against Pakis.
The GoI has asked for Dawood Ibrahim who is a wanted criminal having committed more than 400 murders. Your government/regime harbours him. Where is the connection ? It is a national shame for you to keep such a lowlife at your place. Perhaps the only reason it is done is to rankle India. But then I suppose it is too much to expect Pakis to show common decency.
Posted by
ratiocinator
Jan 21, 2002 12:47 pm
GFMYour minister was ``making a point`` ? Pray what point is that.
Bal Thackeray is an Indian ruffian and he commits his crimes in India against Indians. There is a judicial system here that will deal with it. Bottomline: he has not committed any crimes against Pakis.
The GoI has asked for Dawood Ibrahim who is a wanted criminal having committed more than 400 murders. Your government/regime harbours him. Where is the connection ? It is a national shame for you to keep such a lowlife at your place. Perhaps the only reason it is done is to rankle India. But then I suppose it is too much to expect Pakis to show common decency.
Is Thackeray a Terrorist?
But the Pakistanis only display their stupidity and warped thinking when they ask for him. He`s still an Indian citizen. The way for him and Laloo and others of thier ilk is a long long long time in a stinky prison cell.
Posted by
ratiocinator
Jan 21, 2002 02:39 am
Bal Thackeray is a goon. No two ways on that. Just yesterday the local Shiv Sena candidate trooped into our building holding out his greasy hand begging for votes. My way of showing Bal Thackeray my middle finger will be voting against his party.But the Pakistanis only display their stupidity and warped thinking when they ask for him. He`s still an Indian citizen. The way for him and Laloo and others of thier ilk is a long long long time in a stinky prison cell.
Just Another Stupid Love Story
You piece was very well written. I`ve had my schoolboy crushes too. Still remember Ms. Patsy from 5th grade, the face and above all, the perfume she wore.
Posted by
ratiocinator
Apr 9, 2001 09:57 am
You piece was very well written. I`ve had my schoolboy crushes too. Still remember Ms. Patsy from 5th grade, the face and above all, the perfume she wore.
Biases of the American Press
You are really off on a tangent here. I mean way, way off.
I said ``India is the big guy on the block.``
Fact - It is. The *real *problem is that you like to equate your nation to India.
Take any parameter you want and the difference screams in your face. The idea is that Pakistan should give up these foolish ideas about ``boxing above the weight``. Its not going to happen. I realise that all of us sometimes like to try to play out of our league. And we lose. Nothing wrong with losing. Except the fact that smart folks know the difference between losing and being a loser.
And like I said, get over yourself. We couldnt care less what happened that side of the fence. You can go about all day playing Russian roulette with your politicians, your dictators and what not.
And while you at it, please stop behaving as if you chaps have copyrighted Islam. Its not like the prophet wrote the IPR in Pakistans name or something.
About your tirade on Hindus etc. I cant respond. I happen to be a Syrian Christian from the south. Apparently, you are barking up the wrong tree.
As for deciding about your fate, India isnt the one doing it. It happens to be some cheap tinpot military dictator in Islamabad. The sad part is you cant do anything about it, except parrot the ``PTV truths``. Good luck.
Posted by
ratiocinator
Apr 3, 2001 03:30 pm
UzmaMaroufYou are really off on a tangent here. I mean way, way off.
I said ``India is the big guy on the block.``
Fact - It is. The *real *problem is that you like to equate your nation to India.
Take any parameter you want and the difference screams in your face. The idea is that Pakistan should give up these foolish ideas about ``boxing above the weight``. Its not going to happen. I realise that all of us sometimes like to try to play out of our league. And we lose. Nothing wrong with losing. Except the fact that smart folks know the difference between losing and being a loser.
And like I said, get over yourself. We couldnt care less what happened that side of the fence. You can go about all day playing Russian roulette with your politicians, your dictators and what not.
And while you at it, please stop behaving as if you chaps have copyrighted Islam. Its not like the prophet wrote the IPR in Pakistans name or something.
About your tirade on Hindus etc. I cant respond. I happen to be a Syrian Christian from the south. Apparently, you are barking up the wrong tree.
As for deciding about your fate, India isnt the one doing it. It happens to be some cheap tinpot military dictator in Islamabad. The sad part is you cant do anything about it, except parrot the ``PTV truths``. Good luck.
Biases of the American Press
The truth, my dear Pakistani friend, has 5 axes. Three are spatial, one is that of time and the last is that of perspective !
I can quite understand why you are upset about Pakistan getting negative press in the west. But what I see is that you are rankled as to why India is not getting the same. I cant make a claim that India is more ``progressive`` than Pakistan, since I havent seen your country. But I can tell you one thing. Ten years ago, there was a sense of despondency in the nation. Today, after economic reform, there is a palpable excitement in the air. You find upbeat people, an optimism of a kind, a can-do attitude. Indians have started to believe in themselves. A few successes here and there reinforced that belief. And you know what, these things spread like wildfire.
Consequently, people who come in contact with Indians take a better view of the country with them. This is not to say that media organizations are not biased. I make no such claim. What you see is a ``feel good`` feeling that has rubbed off on them.
About the ``rise`` of ``Hindutva``, which all Pakistanis keep harping about. The ``death of secularism`` and all that balderdash. I dont see it happening in my lifetime. You see, Indian society has seen n number of such ``movements``. These are passing fancies, essentially the nature of an Indian is to accept. If you have ever met a normal Indian, you will be able to see what I mean. Just because a bunch of street goons in the Shiv Sena decide to knock down a building, all Indians dont metamorphise into devils. I know you would like to believe in all that. After all, it gives you a sense of ``look, they are as bad as us``.
I also admire the fact that you are able to notice a few redeeming qualities in your ``enemies``. Good for you.
Your article was generally ok until I came across the underlying message. About this great ``Indo-Isreali`` combine that is out to destroy you.
Get real. The world is not all about you. I am sorry to inform you that you come from a nation that is a blip on the international radar. If you are pragmatic enough, it becomes apparent that there are no conspiracies etc.
The alternative of course is to go the David Koresh [Waco fame] way - dig a trench, clutch your missiles close to your chest and go to war with your real and imagined foes.
I wish you and your nation well. It would do well to remember that India is the big boy on the block and will remain so. The sooner this strikes home, the better. Fortunately for you, we are peace-loving folks. That does not mean we will give you the other cheek. Pakistan just isnt ready to reconcile to living with India as a friend.
Posted by
ratiocinator
Apr 2, 2001 03:32 pm
The truth, my dear Pakistani friend, has 5 axes. Three are spatial, one is that of time and the last is that of perspective !
I can quite understand why you are upset about Pakistan getting negative press in the west. But what I see is that you are rankled as to why India is not getting the same. I cant make a claim that India is more ``progressive`` than Pakistan, since I havent seen your country. But I can tell you one thing. Ten years ago, there was a sense of despondency in the nation. Today, after economic reform, there is a palpable excitement in the air. You find upbeat people, an optimism of a kind, a can-do attitude. Indians have started to believe in themselves. A few successes here and there reinforced that belief. And you know what, these things spread like wildfire.
Consequently, people who come in contact with Indians take a better view of the country with them. This is not to say that media organizations are not biased. I make no such claim. What you see is a ``feel good`` feeling that has rubbed off on them.
About the ``rise`` of ``Hindutva``, which all Pakistanis keep harping about. The ``death of secularism`` and all that balderdash. I dont see it happening in my lifetime. You see, Indian society has seen n number of such ``movements``. These are passing fancies, essentially the nature of an Indian is to accept. If you have ever met a normal Indian, you will be able to see what I mean. Just because a bunch of street goons in the Shiv Sena decide to knock down a building, all Indians dont metamorphise into devils. I know you would like to believe in all that. After all, it gives you a sense of ``look, they are as bad as us``.
I also admire the fact that you are able to notice a few redeeming qualities in your ``enemies``. Good for you.
Your article was generally ok until I came across the underlying message. About this great ``Indo-Isreali`` combine that is out to destroy you.
Get real. The world is not all about you. I am sorry to inform you that you come from a nation that is a blip on the international radar. If you are pragmatic enough, it becomes apparent that there are no conspiracies etc.
The alternative of course is to go the David Koresh [Waco fame] way - dig a trench, clutch your missiles close to your chest and go to war with your real and imagined foes.
I wish you and your nation well. It would do well to remember that India is the big boy on the block and will remain so. The sooner this strikes home, the better. Fortunately for you, we are peace-loving folks. That does not mean we will give you the other cheek. Pakistan just isnt ready to reconcile to living with India as a friend.
A Kiss on the Cheek
Maybe the ending was a tad unrealistic, but I enjoyed reading the piece. I`m Indian, but I can relate to what the story is about. I turned 25 in October and my parents have already started dropping broad hints. I get away by citing how I`m working towards that ``next`` promotion or this ``important`` project. But I know I wont be able to stave them off for long. It terrifies me to know that I will have to suddenly start living with a complete stranger sometime. My last girlfriend (a year ago ) was quite keen on tying the knot, but I got the heebie-jeebies. You know, this would be so much better if we didnt have the Damocles sword of marriage as a compulsory imposition hanging over our heads.
Posted by
ratiocinator
Mar 20, 2001 01:53 am
RazaMaybe the ending was a tad unrealistic, but I enjoyed reading the piece. I`m Indian, but I can relate to what the story is about. I turned 25 in October and my parents have already started dropping broad hints. I get away by citing how I`m working towards that ``next`` promotion or this ``important`` project. But I know I wont be able to stave them off for long. It terrifies me to know that I will have to suddenly start living with a complete stranger sometime. My last girlfriend (a year ago ) was quite keen on tying the knot, but I got the heebie-jeebies. You know, this would be so much better if we didnt have the Damocles sword of marriage as a compulsory imposition hanging over our heads.
The Mandir Mirage
You have used many obfuscating arguments in the article but I think I have figured out the bottomline ( finally ) !
You essentially want folks to be more accomodative towards each other. This would translate into the ``national muslim community`` and the ``national Hindu community`` wanting to settle the dispute amicably ( No views how - I just dont know).
Personally, I object to VSS and BJP being projected as my spokespersons, sorry, ``Hindu`` spokespersons. As though their views represent those of millions of Indians. The BJP is in power through a quirk in our democratic system. People like Phoolan Devi are also in power thanks to this. Nothing to weep about, Delhi was never known to be very discerning about its occupants. The bright spot here is that ABV is running a coalition and his allies have enough leverage to keep him ``popularly sane``. Sanity defined flexibly here ! ;-)
I`ve never been to Ayodhya and I doubt if it will ever acquire the status of a Tirupati or a Guruvayoor. It`s some nondescript dirty place up north with smelly charsi sadhoos.
Anyway, the best outcome that can happen is that the Supreme Court rules one way or another and the government is able to enforce that. And very fortunately, that is what is most likely to happen.
And yes, I do agree with you. Nobody has any business telling you what you can or cannot say.
Frankly, I dont think you should worry on that account. Free speech in India is now like guns in the US. It`s out and there`s no way anyone is going to reel it back in. Just not possible. Of course, there`s no way you can stop people from making nasty jabs - they have the same freedom too. Again like guns, this works both ways.
But you are a bad writer, eloquent and bad. I had to reread your article twice to figure out what you were trying to convey. At the end I think that earns you more ire than the ``anti-establishment`` content.
I used to read your Mid-day columns and found you really tiresome. At least Khuswant Singh inserts jokes at the end of his column.
Posted by
ratiocinator
Dec 12, 2000 11:08 am
Farzana,You have used many obfuscating arguments in the article but I think I have figured out the bottomline ( finally ) !
You essentially want folks to be more accomodative towards each other. This would translate into the ``national muslim community`` and the ``national Hindu community`` wanting to settle the dispute amicably ( No views how - I just dont know).
Personally, I object to VSS and BJP being projected as my spokespersons, sorry, ``Hindu`` spokespersons. As though their views represent those of millions of Indians. The BJP is in power through a quirk in our democratic system. People like Phoolan Devi are also in power thanks to this. Nothing to weep about, Delhi was never known to be very discerning about its occupants. The bright spot here is that ABV is running a coalition and his allies have enough leverage to keep him ``popularly sane``. Sanity defined flexibly here ! ;-)
I`ve never been to Ayodhya and I doubt if it will ever acquire the status of a Tirupati or a Guruvayoor. It`s some nondescript dirty place up north with smelly charsi sadhoos.
Anyway, the best outcome that can happen is that the Supreme Court rules one way or another and the government is able to enforce that. And very fortunately, that is what is most likely to happen.
And yes, I do agree with you. Nobody has any business telling you what you can or cannot say.
Frankly, I dont think you should worry on that account. Free speech in India is now like guns in the US. It`s out and there`s no way anyone is going to reel it back in. Just not possible. Of course, there`s no way you can stop people from making nasty jabs - they have the same freedom too. Again like guns, this works both ways.
But you are a bad writer, eloquent and bad. I had to reread your article twice to figure out what you were trying to convey. At the end I think that earns you more ire than the ``anti-establishment`` content.
I used to read your Mid-day columns and found you really tiresome. At least Khuswant Singh inserts jokes at the end of his column.
Bigotry, Racism and American Media
Pakistanis should be the last guys talking HR - I mean cmon - you blew away millions of Bangladeshis and now you want us to take you seriously ! I dont see Pakistan raising its ``HR-respondent voice`` in favour of the Tibetians. Maybe the Tibetians dont qualify for humans ? Let me guess - only muslims are humans right ?
I will put it in raw terms - you chaps cant stand up to us, so now you want some big brother to beat us up for you. First it was the US. Now at the OIC ( a doofus body methinks ) all Pakistan could think was of asking everyone from the doorman to come and declare Jihad on big bad India. HR huh ?? LOL! Iss hamaam may sabhee nangay hain...
Posted by
ratiocinator
Nov 17, 2000 12:43 am
At the outset let me say that I dont support Israel`s extreme reactions to the provocations they faced. But lets be honest. If you were surrounded by hostile nations and you faced folks who are ready to do anything to hurt you, you feel scared. And fear drives you to react in a manner that you feel will send a strong message. The problem here is compounded by the fact that countries far away from the conflict, like Pakistan are making it a religious ``us vs them`` issue.Pakistanis should be the last guys talking HR - I mean cmon - you blew away millions of Bangladeshis and now you want us to take you seriously ! I dont see Pakistan raising its ``HR-respondent voice`` in favour of the Tibetians. Maybe the Tibetians dont qualify for humans ? Let me guess - only muslims are humans right ?
I will put it in raw terms - you chaps cant stand up to us, so now you want some big brother to beat us up for you. First it was the US. Now at the OIC ( a doofus body methinks ) all Pakistan could think was of asking everyone from the doorman to come and declare Jihad on big bad India. HR huh ?? LOL! Iss hamaam may sabhee nangay hain...
The Burden of Virginity
There is also the lurking fear in the minds of desis that somehow a spouse who has been *there * will automatically compare every subsequent experience with it.
Fear of inadequacy perhaps ?? What if you don`t measure upto it - after all first experiences are known to influence people profoundly...right ?
Posted by
ratiocinator
Oct 18, 2000 08:57 am
There is also the lurking fear in the minds of desis that somehow a spouse who has been *there * will automatically compare every subsequent experience with it.
Fear of inadequacy perhaps ?? What if you don`t measure upto it - after all first experiences are known to influence people profoundly...right ?
The Imperatives of Power
As far as Pakistan is concerned, the foolish Kashmir policy is the root of all the ills. Please dont feed us malapropisms about concern for human rights /self-determination / whatever. Nobody saw any of these concerns from Pak during 71 for the Bongs and nobody sees it now for the Tibetians. I mean, cmon, either you are universally concerned or you have some axe to grind. Like here it is nothing but simple greed and a desire for revenge, perhaps even a lust for power. So, drop the pretences and admit to it.
India is no angel, but India is better equipped to occupy the pulpit of power in this part of the world. And my personal belief that it will benefit everyone whenever it happens.
Bottomline,we are just as greedy as you are. Iss hamam may sabhi nangay hai.
The sensible but horribly distasteful strategy for Pak is to somehow give up the grand Kashmir annexation plan and cosy up to India. That may take upto 5 years - if Pak starts now. The benefits of co-operation with India can be tremendous.
Truthfully, Indians are wary of the States as well. There is a lot of anti-US sentiment still here - since the ``we socialist - you imperialist`` mentality persists in some pockets. I think India would like to form some kind of strategic partnership with China and Russia too. If something like that coincides with India coming of economic age, we will have it made.
Right now the attitude is ``Yankee, go away, but take me with you !!`` LOL
Posted by
ratiocinator
Oct 4, 2000 03:07 am
There is no doubting that India`s relations with western countries have grown out of the Cold war mould - but then, that was inevitable. And I would call it sheer coincidence that India`s economic prospects are looking up at the same time. Therefore the interest has been sustainable to some extent.As far as Pakistan is concerned, the foolish Kashmir policy is the root of all the ills. Please dont feed us malapropisms about concern for human rights /self-determination / whatever. Nobody saw any of these concerns from Pak during 71 for the Bongs and nobody sees it now for the Tibetians. I mean, cmon, either you are universally concerned or you have some axe to grind. Like here it is nothing but simple greed and a desire for revenge, perhaps even a lust for power. So, drop the pretences and admit to it.
India is no angel, but India is better equipped to occupy the pulpit of power in this part of the world. And my personal belief that it will benefit everyone whenever it happens.
Bottomline,we are just as greedy as you are. Iss hamam may sabhi nangay hai.
The sensible but horribly distasteful strategy for Pak is to somehow give up the grand Kashmir annexation plan and cosy up to India. That may take upto 5 years - if Pak starts now. The benefits of co-operation with India can be tremendous.
Truthfully, Indians are wary of the States as well. There is a lot of anti-US sentiment still here - since the ``we socialist - you imperialist`` mentality persists in some pockets. I think India would like to form some kind of strategic partnership with China and Russia too. If something like that coincides with India coming of economic age, we will have it made.
Right now the attitude is ``Yankee, go away, but take me with you !!`` LOL
Advertise! You fools!
You have to *have * a sellable product first before you spend money on good PR.
Lets face it guys - with a cheap tinpot military dictator for a leader, a run-down economy and deadly terrorists as the main exports, you can`t seriously expect to have a positive image.
As long as impressionable generations are fed with Goebellian venom about India, this status quo will persist.
A new beginning is the need of the hour. Give up the imperial dreams of annexing your neighbour`s property. If India is a formidable foe, it can also be a faithful friend.
Until then, all those with green passports will continue to stand in seperate lines everywhere.
Posted by
ratiocinator
Sep 8, 2000 06:48 am
You have to *have * a sellable product first before you spend money on good PR.
Lets face it guys - with a cheap tinpot military dictator for a leader, a run-down economy and deadly terrorists as the main exports, you can`t seriously expect to have a positive image.
As long as impressionable generations are fed with Goebellian venom about India, this status quo will persist.
A new beginning is the need of the hour. Give up the imperial dreams of annexing your neighbour`s property. If India is a formidable foe, it can also be a faithful friend.
Until then, all those with green passports will continue to stand in seperate lines everywhere.
Would Devolution Empower “We the People”?
I don`t know very much about Pakistan, but I feel having military personnel in political positions may not be a very bad idea. Musharraf may have got off on the wrong foot, but I think he has got the discipline and application which many professional politicians lack. This is true of politicians in India too, but in our country military rule is simply not an option.
As far as I can tell, Musharraf has outlined a plan for economic growth. My feeling is that it is not workable as long as Pakistan spends so much on maintaining the armed forces.
The current setup will work if:
1. The general decides to cut down on military expenditure. For this, he has to give India a sense of security eg. shutting down some terrorist camps, encouraging trade with India etc. Not a popular choice I`m sure.
2. The general decides to appease some western powers by giving in to some of their demands. Again, an unpopular choice.
3. After devolution, he appoints a steering commitee of representatives of all political parties and makes himself the president. That way, he maintains control as well as he can oversee how the administration is being run.
Posted by
ratiocinator
Sep 5, 2000 10:40 am
I don`t know very much about Pakistan, but I feel having military personnel in political positions may not be a very bad idea. Musharraf may have got off on the wrong foot, but I think he has got the discipline and application which many professional politicians lack. This is true of politicians in India too, but in our country military rule is simply not an option.
As far as I can tell, Musharraf has outlined a plan for economic growth. My feeling is that it is not workable as long as Pakistan spends so much on maintaining the armed forces.
The current setup will work if:
1. The general decides to cut down on military expenditure. For this, he has to give India a sense of security eg. shutting down some terrorist camps, encouraging trade with India etc. Not a popular choice I`m sure.
2. The general decides to appease some western powers by giving in to some of their demands. Again, an unpopular choice.
3. After devolution, he appoints a steering commitee of representatives of all political parties and makes himself the president. That way, he maintains control as well as he can oversee how the administration is being run.
The Ongoing IT Revolution and Security Implications for Pakistan
My two-cents :
Stick to your strengths - whether it be selling sugar or stitching footballs or whatever. Soon you will make a name for yourselves and once your self esteem as a nation grows, these anti-India feelings can be exorcised.
If you do want to compare yourselves to others, select someone of your own size. For eg, with respect to Burma or Sri Lanka, you guys are doing really well.
In the future, I hope to see a strong India acting as a protector/powerhouse for South Asia, which will mean all types of benefits - economic, political, military etc. for all our neighbours.
Posted by
ratiocinator
Aug 31, 2000 10:23 am
This article has nothing to do with IT. It could have been the cement or the batata-wada business. When Indians do well, it does not mean Pakistan(is) will be at the losing end.My two-cents :
Stick to your strengths - whether it be selling sugar or stitching footballs or whatever. Soon you will make a name for yourselves and once your self esteem as a nation grows, these anti-India feelings can be exorcised.
If you do want to compare yourselves to others, select someone of your own size. For eg, with respect to Burma or Sri Lanka, you guys are doing really well.
In the future, I hope to see a strong India acting as a protector/powerhouse for South Asia, which will mean all types of benefits - economic, political, military etc. for all our neighbours.
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