The Real Face of Saudia Arabia Sadia,

If you think Saudi Arab is an awful place for sisters to be in then you ain`t seen nothin yet...there are worse possibilities: Read on what goes on in the land of pure whose citizens are working tirelessly for the human rights of Kashmiris, Chechens, Bosnians, Phillipinos, etc. etc. (except for the people of their own country)

In Pakistan, Women Pay The Price of `Honor`

By Pamela Constable

Washington Post Foreign Service

Monday , May 8, 2000 ; A01

GUJAR KHAN, Pakistan –– Zahida Perveen`s head is shrouded in a white cotton veil, which she self-consciously tightens

every few moments. But when she reaches down to pick up her baby daughter, the veil falls away to reveal the face of one

of Pakistan`s most horrific social ills, broadly known as ``honor`` crimes.

Perveen`s eyes are empty sockets of unseeing flesh, her earlobes have been sliced off, and her nose is a gaping, reddened

stump of bone. Sixteen months ago, her husband, in a fit of rage over her alleged affair with a brother-in-law, bound her

hands and feet and slashed her with a razor and knife. She was three months` pregnant at the time.

``He came home from the mosque and accused me of having a bad character,`` the tiny, 32-year-old woman murmured as

she awaited a court hearing last month. ``I told him it was not true, but he didn`t believe me. He caught me and tied me up,

and then he started cutting my face. He never said a word except, `This is your last night.` ``

Perveen`s disfigurement is extreme, but her case is standard in its basic elements. Thousands of Pakistani women and girls

are stabbed, burned or maimed every year by husbands, fathers or brothers who believe they have brought them dishonor

by being unfaithful, seeking a divorce, eloping with a boyfriend or refusing to marry a man chosen by the family.

If a victim dies, the crime becomes an ``honor killing,`` a term that has come to symbolize the cruel irony of a conservative

Islamic society that purports to shelter women, yet often condones savage violence against them in the name of male and

family honor.

The problem of honor killings in Pakistan, while far from new or unique, has aroused international attention since April,

when Samia Sarwar, 29, was shot dead in the law office of a leading human rights activist. It turned out that her parents had

ordered the killing because she had shamed the family by seeking a divorce.

In the past, elected Pakistani leaders have resisted taking action against honor killings, but last month military ruler Gen.

Pervez Musharraf launched a national human rights campaign, singling out honor killings for special denunciation.

Government officials said they are hoping to reduce Pakistan`s isolation abroad as well as increase domestic awareness of

the issue.

``The government of Pakistan vigorously condemns the practice of so-called honor killings,`` Musharraf declared. ``Such acts

do not find a place in our religion or law. Killing in the name of honor is murder, and it will be treated as such.``

Such crimes occur in countries across the world and among societies of all faiths; a jealous husband in the United States

may be driven to the same act of rage as one in Pakistan or Portugal. But such attacks tend to be taken more seriously by

authorities in developed countries, where women are more educated about their rights.

Moreover, because the concepts of male honor and female subservience are deeply ingrained in Islamic and Asian tribal

cultures, honor crimes including killing have occurred for years in Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Egypt and other Muslim countries,

including Pakistan, without provoking widespread outcry.

``The concept of honor killing does not exist in Islamic law, but conservative tradition is very strong in our culture. Islam

gives rights to women, but society snuffs them out,`` said Nayyar Shebana, a lawyer with the Aurat Foundation, a women`s

advocacy group in Islamabad, the Pakistani capital.

Only sketchy statistics are available on honor crimes, but the independent Human Rights Commission of Pakistan reported

that in 1998 and 1999, more than 850 women were killed by their husbands, brothers, fathers or other relatives in Punjab,

Pakistan`s most populous province. In many of those cases, the commission said, the woman was suspected of what was

considered immoral behavior.

Another common form of domestic violence against Pakistani women is burning. In 1998 and 1999, the commission

reported more than 560 cases of women burned at home in Punjab. In 1998, nearly half the victims died. Many cases were

suspicious, but there were only a handful of arrests. The Progressive Women`s Association, which assists attack victims,

tracked 3,560 women who were hospitalized after being attacked at home with fire, gasoline or acid between 1994 and

1999.

``We deal with these cases every day, but I have seen very few convictions,`` said Nahida Mahbooba Elahi, a lawyer and

women`s rights activist who represents honor crime victims. ``The men say the wife didn`t obey their orders, or was having

relations with someone else. The police often say it is a domestic matter and refuse to pursue the case. Some judges even

justify it and do not consider it murder.``

Since the outcry over Samia Sarwar`s killing, dozens of other cases have come to light, largely as a result of pressure and

publicity by women`s groups. In recent interviews, victims or their families described the following incidents of extreme

domestic violence:

* Perveen Aktar, 37, was severely burned in September when her husband, a fruit peddler in Rawalpindi, threw acid on

her. According to Aktar, whose face, chest and back are badly scarred, her husband wanted to return to his first wife, and

she refused. She said she went to the police, but that her husband paid them a series of bribes and they did not investigate.

He has since fled to another city.

* Zarina, 40, fled her home in Kashmir after her 20-year-old stepson shot her younger sister dead; the girl had wanted to

marry a boyfriend whom the stepson did not like. Zarina said her husband sided with his son, beat her and threatened to kill

their 2-year-old daughter when Zarina asked for a divorce. Zarina and her daughter are now in hiding in a private women`s

shelter.

* Kousar Perveen, a 32-year-old mother of four from Talagang, about 100 miles south of Islamabad, was allegedly beaten

and burned to death by her in-laws in February. According to her parents and sisters, the in-laws had forbidden her to leave

their house, even to visit her ailing parents or attend a cousin`s wedding, and she had quarreled bitterly with them.

``They killed my daughter. God help me,`` sobbed Manzour Hussain, 75, his limbs shaking violently with palsy as two

neighbors carried him to a protest organized by the Progressive Women`s Association at the Talagang courthouse in April.

The in-laws reportedly claimed she had been burned in a kitchen fire, but Hussain`s family said she had been tied up and

murdered. Two people are under arrest, but no trial date has been set.

According to lawyers and women`s rights advocates, many such cases are never brought to trial. They say police are easily

bribed or persuaded by the men`s families to dismiss the complaints as ``domestic accidents.`` Many victims, especially

uneducated women confined to their husband`s homes, are too intimidated to press charges. Moreover, under another

Islamic legal concept called qisas and diyat, a blood relative of a victim can formally ``forgive`` a crime in exchange for

payment, with specific sums prescribed for damage to each body part.

Police officials say that many domestic crimes are never brought to their attention, that the complaints are often without merit

and that they prefer to settle minor ones informally. But they insist that they pursue all violent crimes and murder charges

with equal vigor, no matter what the motive.

``We want to punish the man who has done this, and the authorities are committed to doing all we can to help,`` said

Ikramullah Niazi, a police magistrate in Talagang who reassured Kousar Perveen`s relatives outside the courthouse. ``But it is

difficult to collect evidence, and whether he is acquitted or convicted is a matter for the judiciary. There is only so much we

can do.``

Women`s rights advocates have praised Musharraf for his strong statement condemning honor killings, but they note it has

not been accompanied by any moves to bolster investigations or prosecutions. They also predict that such crimes will occur

with impunity as long as the laws that enshrine men`s superiority over women remain unchanged and as long as the popular

belief persists that a woman`s sexual sins must be avenged.

``Sections of society continued to regard any expression of independence by women as an infamy, and the only way to

restore the family`s honor was to promptly put an end to the life of the transgressor,`` the Human Rights Commission said last

year. The subordination of women was so ``routine,`` the group noted, that domestic violence was widely considered

``normal`` behavior--even by the victims themselves.

Zahida Perveen`s husband, a 40-year-old barber named Mahmoud Iqbal, does not deny that he carved up her face with his

razor on the night of Dec. 28, 1998. His defense is based on the Islamic legal concept of ghairat, or uncontrollable actions in

the face of extreme provocation--in this case, suspicion that his wife was being unfaithful. He took no action against the

brother-in-law with whom she was thought to be involved.

``I did these things, but I was going out of my senses,`` said the stocky bearded man, shackled to a policeman with thick iron

chains, as he stood on a balcony outside the Gujar Khan courtroom, about 20 miles from Rawalpindi, awaiting an evidence

hearing in the case. ``She was provoking me and ruining my life. What I did was wrong, but I am satisfied. I did it for my

honor and prestige.``

As Iqbal was taken to a police van after the hearing, several male relatives and acquaintances approached and shook his

manacled hand. Later, when journalists showed his wife`s photographs to a group of middle-class men in Islamabad, several

of them commented that she ``must have deserved it`` and that her husband ``did what a man has to do.``

Although Pakistani law does not condone murder in the name of honor, it does contain strict Islamic ordinances enacted in

1979 that prescribe harsh punishment for the crime of zina, which means committing adultery or having premarital sex.

Under these ordinances, men and women can be stoned to death or publicly whipped 100 times for committing zina, but

such charges are brought almost exclusively against women. Harsh penalties are rarely imposed, largely because it is very

difficult to prove that the alleged sexual acts have occurred. But women`s advocates say the law intimidates women,

prevents them from demanding their rights and encourages men to abuse them with impunity.

``Usually the women are eventually acquitted, but they may spend several years in jail meanwhile,`` said Shebana, the

women`s advocacy lawyer. ``Their families are happy to have them in prison, because they have disgraced the family by

eloping and they must be made to suffer for it.``

In Pakistani society, women who are accused of zina, or who seek divorce and are not living with their parents, are often

ordered to remain in jail or in locked government shelters while their case is pending. In theory, these shelters are intended

to protect unattached women, but in practice they also seek to protect society from them and to ensure they do not engage

in sex.

There are currently 28 women confined to the shelter in Rawalpindi. The doors and windows to their rooms are barred, and

only lawyers and relatives are permitted to visit them. They spend their days praying, studying the Koran, embroidering and

watching television.

One pretty girl in her early twenties ran away from home after she was forced to marry a wealthy man twice her age. Her

father filed a police case against her for eloping with a boy. In another case, a mother of five who sought a divorce said she

was kidnapped by her brothers and threatened with mutilation. A third inmate named Usma said her husband beat her and

took up with another woman but that her parents forced her to return to him.

``My parents say it is shameful for me to want a divorce,`` said Usma, who has been confined for more than a year. ``They

say it will ruin their reputation and that no one will marry me if I am second-hand. I don`t want to go home. I don`t want to

get remarried. I just want to be free.``

For Pakistani women who have been scarred by domestic violence, remarriage is almost unthinkable; sometimes suspicious

husbands disfigure them so they will not be attractive to other men. Zahida Perveen, a slim woman with curly black hair,

may well have caught her brother-in-law`s eye as a pretty young bride.

Now, her face is a scarred and sightless mask that evokes horror and disgust from strangers. But once in a while, when her

veil drops, it arouses other emotions. Last month, as Perveen crouched outside the Gujar Khan courtroom, an elderly

woman watched her silently and began to weep. The woman let her own veil drop, revealing a jaw and cheek that had been

badly burned 20 years before.

``It was an accident,`` explained a man who sat next to her.

``It was an accident,`` the woman repeated quickly, and readjusted the veil over her face.

In the Name of Family Honor

Culturally sanctioned killing of women in the name of preserving the family`s honor remains a serious problem in many

countries. Although little information is available, some groups have estimated honor-killing incidents:

Bangladesh: Between 1996 and 1998, about 200 women were reported to have been attacked with acid by husbands or

close relatives; deaths unknown.

Egypt: 52 violent crimes reported against women in 1997; in some cases the perpetrator was the victim`s mother or sister.

Jordan: 20 killings reported in 1998. Human rights and women`s activists have urged amendments to the penal code, which

exempts honor killings from punishment or reduces penalties in such cases.

Lebanon: 36 honor crimes between 1996 and 1998, mostly in towns and small villages; deaths unknown.

Pakistan: Hundreds killed each year. In Sindh province alone, more than 300 women were reported killed last year, and in

Punjab province 278.

Palestine territory: In the Gaza Strip, 177 women believed killed between 1996 and 1998 in 239 reported attacks. The

deaths were attributed to natural causes.

SOURCES: UNICEF, national women`s groups

Indian Airlines Plane Hijacked Ref Ummair`s post# 95: ``Pakistan won`t accept hijackers``

- REALITY CHECK -

ONLY COUNTRY THAT WILL ACCEPT HIJACKERS IS PAKISTAN - TALEBAN

[They (the hijackers) have started their journey under the monitoring of our people (the Taleban). Ultimately, their destination would be Pakistan,``

Taleban representative in the United States Hakim Abdul Mujahid told rediff.com this morning.

``It is not exactly known where they are headed, but since no other country wants them, the only guess is that they are headed towards Pakistan,`` he said.]

Resolving the Hijack Crisis ``Hijackers have dropped their demand for $200 million and the dead body of a militant because Taliban has convinced them that these are un-islamic demands`` See BBC/DAWN/etc...

Admitedly, I know little about Islam. But logical corollary to above is 1) Though Islam doesn`t allow cash ransom and exhuming a dead body, it does condone/allow/encourage taking innocent people as hostage, and 2) Taliban has power to convince the hijackers.

Can a mullah or moulvi on chowk, please shed light on what Islam and Quran has to say about hostage-taking. And, please don`t rationalize the act on the back of Kashmir. I just want to know where does Islam/Quran stand on such acts on ``absolute`` basis.

Also, I will be obliged if political masterminds like Ummair/Godot/Omar1974/etc may explain WHY these 2-bit-criminal terrorist, accused to be RAW agents by the great CE, act on Taliban`s advice.

Again, Desperate Times Ref # 405 / Umairr

I think you missed Fauziya`s point altogether. No where she tried to defend NS or ``his`` brand of democracy. All she is saying that before Pakistan demands right of self determination for Kashmiris, it should provide a ``real democratic`` system for its own people. It has to set a shining example of a system where people are exercising their right of self-determination (not a CE kind of referendum) without fear. And then it should get on its high horse of preaching value of democracy/plebiscite etc.

You say ``The issue is that no one should live their lives under occupation. Pakistan is not living under occupation of any other country.``

I ask why is it better to live under the occupation of one`s own Army than another country`s army? Occupation is occupation and not pardonable in any situation. But being an ex-military guy, your instinctive reactions to defend ``jernaille`` is understandable. (Namak halali is a good trait. Alas, CE doesn`t have a bit of it)

History is replete with instances where foreign armies treated people with more respect than their own. And if you believe that everyone in Pakistan is happy about the ``occupation`` then please take time to go through what PONAM have to say

From Dawn : ref. PONAM

``The council of the Pakistan Oppressed Nations Movement, at its two -day meeting which concluded here on Tuesday, described the military takeover as unconstitutional and ``naked usurpation`` of power, Sardar Ataullah Khan Mengal, convener of the PONAM, told a press conference. He called upon the armed forces to hand over power to the Supreme Court and return to the barracks. The council`s meeting was attended by 12 nationalist parties from Sindh, Balochistan,and Punjab. ``

P.S. And please stop the comments regarding Labeling Shnabeling… A ``chowkidar`` needs to have a thicker skin than you have…

Again, Desperate Times Ref: post #21 - Durdana

``If you know any thing about Afghan,they are totally different to deal with.They dont wear the Levis Jean, Nike sneakers,or Tommy hillfiger like your Hyderabad blues & Bombay Boys.``

Yes they are different to deal with. Brave people and no doubdt about that... But I have a suspicion that they have a ``stomoch`` too. Just read what Taliban foreign minister has to say:

{Meanwhile, Muttawakil issued a plea to U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan to end sanctions and ``take pity`` on the poor people of Afghanistan who have nothing after 20 years of war. Muttawakil made his plea in a letter to Annan before meeting de Mul.}

And I am quite sure that they will willingly adorn blue jeans too, only if they can afford to buy it.

(I believe western clothing was not so uncommon before the Taliban landed in Afghanistan)

I hope Afghans start seeing through the mindless macho bluster of Durdana`s type and start using their heads for a change. They have been used as pawns by so many for so long (russia, america, pakistan, taliban...) that it makes me sick to watch it anymore.

What is it that Pakistanis want? Ref. nashat

``Please refrain from using terms like Camel-Jockeys, Camelia, etc. for Pakistanis and Pakistan. Its not polite``

Men u r cracking me up. After all the rantings you have cheek to coolly wipe the froth and deliver a sanctimonious sermon. BTW what do have against camel and jockeys. Both work hard to make a living. But I guess ``aulad`` of Ghazni and Ghauri have little appreciation of hard work. Right??? Personally I think ``Lakadbaggha`` (hyena) or ``Lomad`` (jackal) fits more.

Time for a fresh start Re: Godot

I know Godot. I read him several times and chatted with him at Chowk where he was a contributor. He has an assuming personality (and a very ordinary vision, according to those who read his posts on Chowk) and does not come across as a brilliant scholar.

He has been manipulated by the system and people around him to get to where he is: knowing the wrong people at Pakistan (and now USA), knowing the journalist who quote him (the people who helped him have very unsympathetic view of India, and are quite pro-nothing-but-anti-every-thing-Indian). He was part of a War Game in which there was a nuclear stand-off between India and Pakistan. He was with the team that was Pakistan and like Mahmood Ghaznavi he single handedly inflicted nuclear anhillation on India and detroyed every Hindu. (gloat, gloat...)

That Hindu writers, and many American journalists, especially in the New York Times, try to create

a wonderful image of India and exact opposite of that for Pakistan for the American public is no

secret. Its infathomable that how these vile people can cast bad light on Pakistan, the ``Jannat`` on the earth. (he has only left this Jannat for the land of great satan to make room for other poor souls)

A writer in the Wall Street Journal, an Indian named Tunku V. (last name too long to spell

correctly), next day after the coup, wrote a very negative article about Pakistan that why America

should not support Pakistan. How dare he question the right of propriety of of martial-law over democracy. Its every Pakistani`s right to murder and rape democracy.

To Godot, the article was too stupid to be worthy of the Wall Street Journal, and the reflection in the mirror upset him so much that I am sure every one can see froth dripping from the corners of his mouth. But Tunku somehow has manipulated to become a writer for the Wall Street Journal. Damn it. Would somebody stop these guys. (more froth)

Thank goodness for the world that American policy makers and those at the State Dept are not as stupid and idiot as, say, ``Godot``.

:-) Attack the issue not the person

Time for a fresh start Ref UR`s post# 18

Its amusing to see the army loyalist cropping up on chowk so soon after the military takeover. More amusing is their attempts to whitewash the lavish lifestyles of these generals.

I guess UR, being an ex-army man, can provide some information on following:

- what is the pay structure in Pakistani army

- how much is the official salary of a general

- How is that children of most of the Army generals (and Lt. generals...) land into US universities. General Musharraf is no exception. In fact his brother too is enjoying the fruits of democracy in US.

It was quite sad to learn that pakistani public has been celebrating the official demise of democracy in pakistan. (ooops... military has declared democracy to be intact even after the takeover) Especially when the opposition was so close to overthrow the unpopular Nawaz government by democratic means. Political alliances were gathering strength and the sapling of democracy was taking roots. It takes a cycle of several good and bad governments to grow the democratic temprament in the psyche of the people (India and its repeated election is a glorious example).

Maybe democracy is the right system for pakistanis (or pakistanis are not the right kind of people for democracy)

A State of Confusion Ref: Ali (baba) :)

In light of recent massacre of shites in Karachi, I fervently and sincerely hope that you are either not living in Pakistan or you are not a shia.

Naaah... let me take that all back. There is no need for such concern... It was just an abberation. Nothing like that will ever repeat in the ``tolerent`` and ``minority friendly`` country like Great Pakistan. Right... right... please say so... because all mohajirs, shites, hindus, christians, ahmadias are shitting in their pants in this ``tolerent`` country.

Searching for my identity I guess everyone has one?s own view of hijab (burka, veil, etc...)

For Zehra its like ``miracle bra`` (Zehra, how about going to nude beach with veil on. It will be sensational)

For Zeemax its like ``Viagra`` (and it doesn?t cost the user a dime...)

For Godot its ``Islamic Identity`` (religion is so un-cool (read load-of-sh_t). A humane identity is a better goal)

For MCPs it is something that protects men from ``EVIL`` women body (they believe men are mentally challenged species, ready to mount a women at the sight of her face...basically dick-heads)

And for me... Its an evil concept that insults women?s body and a men?s mind.....

Searching for my identity Re. Zeemax

``Well in any event Hijab wearing girls look so incredibly attractive to me .. and elegant ..!``

Re. Daring

``Got that right, they do look beautiful.``

I don?t know what it will take to make these guys understand that women don?t exist on this earth for their viewing pleasures. They are LIVING beings for god sake... They have as much desire to live life freely as men. They don?t want to waste this precious gift of life tied down in the ``body bag`` of hijab. If a hijab covered women is so attractive to these guys then maybe then can get their kicks by covering a robotic mannequin with hijab and pretend that their is a women under there. I am sure most of the people won?t be able to tell the difference.

Zeemax and Daring should know that the hijabans look so attractive to them only because it gives them a false sense of power. Weak and sickos have always taken delight in other peoples pain and suffering!!!!

Re. SR

``You unfairly accuse him, because all he seems to be saying is that, `hey, its no big deal, let them do it if they want to, what the heck does it matter?```

Please don?t get fooled by a ``seemingly`` moderate stance of Godot. Its pure subterfuge. He is simply trying to whitewash hijab by making a sneaky apple and orange analogy. Where does he get off comparing Earrings and Hijab... Where do you see the similarity? Does an earring prevent a men from biking, driving, running, swimming, playing.....???? Does it? You have to wear hijab for one whole day to realize its horror. The moderate and ``rational`` appearing stance is basically a shrewd way to deflate the protest. And if Godot yearns for a different muslim identity then he should find another men?s shoulder to shoot his gun from. Spare the women... In this black-and-white issue there is no room for gray.

Searching for my identity Re: Godot

[Hijab is just another way, for ``MUSLIM WOMEN``, to assert their ``identity``, to be ``different``, to let

others know of their ``beliefs``.]

Ooops... Please replace ``MUSLIM WOMEN`` by ``MUSLIM MEN``

I am sure people like Godot(and tqs) gloat looking at a muslim women struggling in ``black body bags`` and say to themselves ``Yeah, we`re different, whach she`s gonna do about it, huh!``

Its an identity issue for the Muslim men but to the poor women its nothing more than ``Sati``.

Godots in yesteryear tried to justify ``Sati`` ritual in the name of ``expression of spousal love, devotion and identity`` because it was not they who had to sit on the pyre. Fortunately Hindus realized the shameful and horrible nature of that exploitation and moved forward.

The pyre of hijab is loosing strength and the talibanic savages are running scared. They can try to throw gas in this fire but soon it will burn the long beards of these Mullahs.

P.S.

Maybe a ``hijab-burning`` movement on the lines of ``bra-burning`` movment should be started...

Searching for my identity RE. tqs

``How can Hijab be a symbol of oppression.? Wearing Hijab is like saying that “ I don’t want to be

judged on my physical beauty or lack of it, I want to be taken seriously, I have mind too , I am not

a public property “. ``

If that is the case then why don`t Muslim men wear hijab as well. Isn`t there even a single muslim men would like to judged by what he is and not by his physical beauty. Or is it that Islam doesn`t recognize men to be capable of being beautiful? Does sexuality and physical attraction flows only men-to-women in Islamic world?

Looks like a pathetic attempt to whitewash the horrendous exploitation and suppression of hapless muslim women by patriarchial men in the name of a originally benign religion.

Bombs, Missiles and Pakistani Science shafqat wrote:

``Professor sahab,You`re a real complainer.``

I think Shafqat totally missed the point professor is trying to make. No where I get an impression that he is complaining about insufficient funding for scientific institutes in Pakistan. He has simply tried to point to the deception politicians are playing by equating bombs and missiles with ``scientific achievement``.

Pagans and Competitive Conversions Black Zero wrote

``For access to public roads and even for spaces to BURY the dead, they have to depend much on the capricious benevolence of their caste-Hindu neighbors``

``BURY`` the dead??? Since when Hindus started burying their dead??

Though most of the stuff Black Zero has written is true OR to be precise it WAS true. Not any more. Maybe Zero should visit India now. He will find things have changed radically. Fruits of democracy are ripening. In most of the states and even at the central government level it`s the Dalits and Backwards who hold the power. Massacre at Bihar, where Dalits managed to kill more non-dalits`` (probably for the first time) shows which way the wind is blowing.

To equate religion with society is nonsensical. Was slavery ever sanctioned by Christianity or Islam. But even till 19th century slavery existed in Christian USA. Will it be correct to castigate the Christian religion as the cause of slavery.

Pagans and Competitive Conversions Truth wrote

``To all the dim-witted Indians getting agitated by the reference to Timur:...``

How typical is the response from Truth. His ``boukhlahat`` at the questioning of the origin of Muslims in Indian subcontinent would be amusing had it not been so pathetic. His response is somewhat I have gotten used to and it doesn`t help a bit in enlightening this ``dim-wit``.

Truth says…

``Murad never said he was proud of it. Its just a point he was making from his name. ``

That`s absolutely right that Murad never said he was proud of it but it is clear to even a ``dim-wit`` that he sounds proud of his Timurish descent. The fact that Mirza sahib dropped his ``Timur descent`` totally out of context further corroborates the pride theory. If the discussion were on genealogy, history of India or famous people of central Asia, I would have understood the ``name-dropping``. But we were having discussion about religions, pagans, sufism… I fail to see what point one may want to make by bringing ``Timur`` in this context.

My Muslim friends and acquaintances range from Pakistan to southern India. One curious thing that keeps propping up in our conversation is the origin of Muslims in India. And the reason it keeps propping up is not because generally we are trying to unearth this ``secret`` but because of the ``name-dropping`` habit of these friends. We may be discussing future of Euro and its impact on US dollar, and suddenly one such gentleman will remind us of direct descent from Babar in an attempt to strengthen his argument. Not to be outdone by this claim another gentleman will quickly point to his Timurish legacy. And by now the digression would be complete. It is quite possible that a third gentleman may try to outsmart all other a spinning a totally ``bs`` story… A ``real-life`` example follows:

``You know sometime back we got an old well in the backyard of our ancestrol Lahore house cleaned up. In that cleaning process one laborer brought out a brick like rock with some kind of Arabic engraving on it. We got it cleaned and had it analyzed by an Arabic expert. The expert told us that it had the name of an Arabian clan leader.`` And then this fellow will continue to claim his Arab ancestry with a ``proof``. Not like the others without a proof.

A south Indian Muslim friend whose name has word ``Syed`` in it has repeatedly told me that he is a direct descendent of Prophet Muhammad family. Another friend with the last name of Siddiqui keeps harping about his Arabian blood. If in US, I had not had a chance to see Arabs, Turks, Mongols, Indians and Pakistani`s face-to-face and observed their facial features, I might have accepted that. But in view of conflicting physical evidence, it takes an effort to keep a straight face.

Another curious aspect of this picture is that in private, each of them try to undermine the claim of other guys ancestry while legitimizing his own claim.

I must say that Bangladeshi Muslim do not indulge in this ``name-dropping`` farce to that extent. They come out pretty proud of their Bangla culture and values.

Truth writes…

``Not every Muslim of India is a convert. For your info, as per historical records, three quarters of Akbar`s civil sevice was foreign-born. ``

By no means I am trying to say that ``every`` Muslim of India is a convert. There are people who might have no ancestry in Hindu India. Probably more so in Pakistan than India. And its quite possible that one person from that venerated civil service of Akbar has managed to retain his racial purity. But then he may be the only one. An exception… and exceptions do not define the countries and nations.

I understand that these claims to distinct ancestry are critical to the Pakistanis in particular. Without which the two-nation theory doesn`t look too viable. And that is the reason why the history books in Pakistan were re-written (by fiction writers and not historians). The fear of ``Akhand Bharat`` forces Pakistani Muslims to keep reveling in imaginary lineage. But for an Indian Muslim like Mirza Murad Ali Baig , this kind of name dropping is simply an expression of caste-system or elitism.

I can`t agree more with ``iconoclast`` statement

``So you are a descendant of Timur... and I am a descendant of a poor Hindu laborer . So what, who gives a damn ? ``

The elitist attitude may have a sanction in Hinduism, but Islam characteristically differs in that respect. Even the greatest detractor of Islam are impressed by its emphasis on ``equality of all``. Its really saddening when scholarly ``sounding`` people like Murad jump to any opportunity to offer their ``kadambosi`` of Timurs. One expects better from them.

After 50 years of partition people in both country have reconciled to two-country (if not two-nation) theory. Maybe its time Pakistanis Muslims accept the truth and Indian Muslims (the likes of Mirza Murad Ali Baig) stop acting ``better-than-you``.

I have never seen a black Afro-American, who may be having more German blood than African, (more German blood than a Pakistani can ever have from Changez Khan) claiming his descent from Hitler .

Folks …You are what you are. What you do in your life determines your identity. What your parent or their parents did has very little meaning, especially, in this age of information. Falling to the temptation of using the crutches of ``names`` to make one look bigger than one is, only makes one look smaller.

Peace…

a dim wit… maybe, but proud of what he is…and who doesn`t need the fancy names like ``Truth`` to embellish his words.