Indian Airlines Plane Hijacked Dear Chowkies,

I read your many posts, news articles, opinions, and personal beef posted here.

It is unfortunate to see that our generation, either side of the subcontinental divide, has been raised and groomed to hate each other, scapegoat, and point fingers.

I don`t support terrorism of any kind, being victim of it myself. Many of you may not even realize what the victims and families are going through, but keep on giving your ``expert`` opinion on the whole situation. Be sensitive to the nature of this issue. It is about Human Rights, and not the great might of any state.

Still, I would like to mention an old adage ``One person`s terrorist is another person`s freedom fighter,``FYI.

Much has been said already, and I hope that the standoff ends soon, and the victims go home, safely.

Please inform through this great resource, not antagonize.

Regards

Defending Pakistan Amir,

I should appreciate that this paper of yours is a good try, but remians to be part factual, part emotional, and part opinion, and part thoretical.

It seems to me that not only are you a high proponent of indigenous production, you also support a conflict with India (Pak Platform vs. Ind. Platform).

It si one thing to say that Indian navy has aircraft carriers and harriers, Dehli destroyers etc, and another to find out their operational status.

Also, it is not as easy as one two three to install a land based SSM on to a naval ship, and there are a lot of issues involved.

India did lease a charlie class from Russia(INS chakra) but they still remain far from testing or inducting a Nuclear submarine, due to reactor development hurdles.

It is not that easy to pursue Ukraine or CA states for arms, as they use russian parts. Also, Grippen uses a GE engine, and they can`t export it till an American license is granted.

I hate to object further, but military feasibility, procurement, and acquisition is not as easy as you might think it is. Russia might be cash stripped, but they are not in the market for us.

Kargil: A view from Pakistan #FerozK

Beside the point I was trying to make, my answers are:

Styr AUG, correct. CQB, I don`t agree. There are two AUG`s, one is 9MM used for CQB, and the other is 5.56mm, used for field assault. We have the 5.56mm, but is not used by the general field forces, only by SSG unit from Attock and SSG(N) from Karachi. They have been in use for a while.

There is a difference between standard issue G3 (or G3A3) assault rifle and Sniper rifles. G3 fires 7.62 mm. Sniper rifles used by SSG N are H&K PSG1 and MSG90, both fire 7.62 mm round.

G3 and MP-5, MP-5K and other varients are manufactured in POF Wah cantt and are available to all military, para-military and police forces. Sniper rifles are imported for elite units only.

Even without a telescopic sight, G3(A3) fires beautifully from 100-200 yards on the range or under various conditions.

*My friend, it takes skills to shoot with a *rifle!!

I agree, but it takes practice to reach precision in firing any weopon in CQB, field charge or sniper assignments.

Kargil: A view from Pakistan As an outsider, I wish to say that Kargil was an engineered fiasco to fool both gullible Indian and Pakistani majorities in believing what`s not true.

Very strange that there are only ``Mujahideen`` fighting in the high altitude terrain, while two of my SSG coursemates never make it back, though one does manage to snipe 150 people before he runs out of bullets and get killed (martyred if you prefer).

As every military person in Pakistani MOD consider himself Deen Ka Mujahid, It is hard for me to believe that kashmiri fighters would have high altitude gear, acclamitazation, PRC-25 radios and Inmarsat SATCOMS, AUG rifles, NVGs (Gen III) SSG issue H&K sniper rifles and what not.

On the other hand, VJP is ousted and then made caretaker. Shells start pounding and brigades start moving, jets fly CAP and drop laser guided munitions, lose planes like moths, butcher their soldiers in uphill bunker raids. Then India ``wins`` the war when ``inflitators`` withdraw. The same week, elections are announced by the Kargil victors much in their favor with the public polls showing their support for kicking out the ``Punjabis.``

My friends on either side, open your eyes and don`t be exploited. What are your leaders doing to you?

I am going to miss my friends, they loved their country.

Please spare the poor animals this Eid! #Noor

Good to see a well read believer.

Basis of my argument was:

http://www.submission.org/Ismail.html

I hope that explains everything.

Shamsi

``shamsi@hotmail.com``

Please spare the poor animals this Eid! #Noor



I find the spirit of slaughtering more barbaric than the slaughter itself. Glorifying a god that asked someone to slaughter his son just for the kicks of it, and a person who was ready to kill his son because god told him so....sorry..I cannot understand this. And shaytaan , the voice of humanity and kindness in this myth, is pelted with rocks...

______

A

hem.... you sure have gotten things mixed up. By Eid Qurbani, you are not glorifying ``God``, you are learning to sacrifice a belonging, a virtue I believe, In rememberance of the will to sacrifice his beloved son Abraham had. ``God`` did not tell Abraham to ``kill`` his son, that;s biblical; according to Koran, it was a dream to sacrifice something beloved, and a ram was sent to save Abr. son`s life, a miracle within itself.

Pelting on stone is again a `ritual` rememberance or Satin`s everlasting efforts to disarray the believers.

Then my friends, I realize that (some of) my fellow chowkies are pretty agnostic, and don`t buy religious arguments. Ah Well, just my 0.03 $ anyway.

Please spare the poor animals this Eid! Funny, I guess this emotionless medium does not rightly convey the sarcasm in my speech. About pork, I wouldn`t know. If you think that pork and it`s relatives are delicious, good for you. I would stick with my steak and lamb(mutton).

You did not get me. I don`t sacrifice goats as it ``the thing`` to do. I do it as an Islamic ritual. I won`t try pork, or slitting a swine. How can you corelate? jeeeezzz. Sir jee, if you think this practice is barbaric, please refrain from it. I will not call you an infidel.

Accident Amber #44

ghalib also said:

Kaa`ba kis mooun say jao gay ghlaib

Sharam tum ko magar naheen aaatee

Please spare the poor animals this Eid! OK, Much said already, here is my $ 0.02.

Info about sacrificial meat being buried is dated. Saudi Arabia now ships the meat to all muslim countries for distribution, including Pakistan.

Among the `problems` of Qurbani, I miss my mom`s freshly made roast chops, roasted kalegi, the fun of collecting hides for charity, feeding goats or whatever, going from basti to basti in karachi to distribute meat among the poor, etc.

If you are in pakistan and complianing, enjoy the good aspects while you have them. For people away like me, I can`t wait to do Qurbani again.

Yes, I have been `savage` enough to cut a goat`s throat, hold it while it flutters it`s last breath, and then feel bad for hours later, and unable to consume the meat etc. I did it in the name of belief in the theology we all pretend to believe. Meat might be murder, but it tastes delicious.

Ashamed of India My account, went to a bank in Karachi last december 97 to get my draft for school here in the US, and despite my dad`s protest, wore khakis, and a T-shirt(60 degrees F was hot for my wisconsin climitization). Thirty minutes before bank closure timings, I was denied service as I didn`t look important. Wen`t back to daddy, made him call the bank manager, went to the bank after bank closure timings, got the draft made amongst apologetic comments:aap nay bataya he nahi kay aap ... sahab kay sahabzaday hain. Made me laugh later as how stupid of me to forget the tricks of the trade by jsut staying a few years in the US. I belive sardar jee whoever had spent enough time in the U.S. to forget most of the things that happen in our countries..

I Cheat Therefore I Am To the comments of ahmirza, you sound pretty naive to me. Please don`t critize for the sake of writing something or anything. If you don`t feel part of the `desi` group, then you aren`t. And the name mentioned is an alias. get it? Names on the net don`t mean anything, as there can be no confirmation. Why are you still stuck up with the notion of names? Still slave to the idea of `names` and their importance in society?

As many have mentioned, this piece only points out some very common incidents, that happen all the time in western geographic location `Desis` reside. It has its exeptions, but still this article is not totally untrue. Living in a university, and then a desi concentrated area of Chicago, I have witnessed many myself.

For eg. Does any one know why credit card calling is banned in Devon/Rogers Park neighborhood of North Side Chicago? Take a guess!

Bangladesh Memories Nice and reflective!

I read all the comments by various chowkees.

We can today blame army for all we want, and i condemn what happened in East P., but it was a game of punjabi dominated politics, that did not want power and autonomy vested in the east. Poor Army soldiers don`t have thinking power, they just kill on orders, similiar to Americans in Vietnam, where they could not not tell b/w vietcong and ordinary civilians, Army was insensitive b/e peacesul bengalis and Mukti bahaini liberation movement. The genocide that followed is not a surprise, as it has happened before in history. The irony was Muslims killing Muslims, in my opinion. I believe it was West Pakistanis who turned our brothers in the East from autonomous to seccesionist!

Don’t Go to the Bathroom in India! So it is all about stereotyping. Funny, how pedestrian are my fellow countrymen(women).

Meeting some friends at UIC, african americans suddenly became ``Kalla`s`` and ``Asian`` people became ``Chapta`s`` and so on. How can we object or blame any one for stereo typing when our ethnicity does it themselves. Think about it, desis in US flock together and stereotype others. Also, a majority own seven elevens, gas stations, and cabs. A lot of them speak a certain dialect too.(I don`t have an accent but i make one jsut ot entertain my friends some time, coz they think it is funny) that si no insult.

For all who have a problem with Sienfeld, deal with it. It depicts America as we see it, specifically NYC, and don`t tell me you don`t hear accents in Jakson heights NY.

Take Care

So, Are You Pakistan? I have been raised in Pakistan, sandpit, oyster rocks, hawkbay, muree, nathigalee, ayoobia, swat, lahore.....it`s all vivid memories. Have been in US for two years now, and have been asked, WHERE IS PAKISTAN than are you pakistan. With all our problems, and dark aspects, and social problems and taboos and what not, Pakistan is still THE homeland, and will remain... for life. I loved your article.

Indian Airlines Plane Hijacked I would like to say it again, many of us here are doing a amazing feat maligning each other. Great Job!

And a little IL for you.

International Law is formed on customary law, and requires participants. If India sees one individual as ``terrorist,`` Pakistan might not, so chapter closed. Read your media, ``India will not negotiate will terrorists.`` Now think about it, not only did they let them leave India under ``threats,`` they used the whole saga to malign Pakistan. The pilot went to the extent of saying the Ruppen Katyal`s death was Pakistan`s fault. It is interesting, because the same Pakistan allowed overflight through ``hostile`` territory, provided medical care in a ``rouge`` military hospital, and facillitated safe release fo passengers w/`fundamentalist` Taliban.

And what happed to Indian ``special forces`` to deal with Terrorists? Were they still busy in ``Kargil`` fighting ``Pakistani`` freedom fighters?

As it happened, India did negotiate with terrorists, and created a problem for others to deal with their own little insurgencies.

Atleast Pakistan does not shot down unarmed training planes that fall in ``Indian`` territory.

Media has already described that Mr Azhar was wrongfully accused, alongwith another ``terrorist`` who was infact a LSE student visiting India while arrest, jailed, and not released even after court orders. Some democracy you have!

Azhar is Pakistani, and if he chooses to be in Pakistan, that is none of anyone`s business.

And coming to probably the most important issue, pertinent to the Hijacking, is Human Rights. So it is okay for Indian BSF, and God knows who else, to rape, kill, pillage, and torture Kashmiri men, women and children because they never got the right of Self Determination, the basis of all human rights. Unfortunate for them, their Hindu Dogra Raja ran to India after Partition, and India, after the ``RadCliffe Award`` built a metaled road through Gurdaspur and moved her forces into Kashmir. Gurdaspur, was a muslim majority area too, FYI.