The Significant Unit of War Ursturly,

How do Hindus get Sikhs to join the Hindu army? Why not the Muslim army?

The Significant Unit of War Pakistan`s benevolence and banality......



India set to keep full press on Pakistan

By BRAHMA CHELLANEY

NEW DELHI -- The biggest question now is whether war will break out between nuclear-armed rivals India and Pakistan. Although no right-minded citizen in either country wants war, many forget that Pakistan has thrust an undeclared war on India for years, bleeding India noticeably. Thus the aim is not continued peace but a return to peace.

This undeclared war involves terrorism operations against India in the name of jihad on the pretext of the Kashmir issue. Pakistan`s president, Gen. Pervez Musharraf, is on record as saying his country`s low-intensity conflict with India would continue even if the Kashmir issue were settled. Now, under India`s threat of war, Musharraf is vowing to stamp out terrorism from his country and crush ``wicked, bigoted extremists.``

The current crisis will be diffused if the Musharraf regime is willing to go beyond symbolic steps against the terror groups that Pakistan`s military and intelligence have nurtured and directed for years. These terror groups -- instruments of what Pakistan calls its war of ``a thousand cuts`` against India -- have been established at religious schools.

Islamabad has exported terror as a cost-effective instrument of state policy to take on the militarily stronger India. Nuclear weapons serve to shield against Indian military retaliation, making India look like an angry but paralyzed elephant. The Pakistani military`s Kashmir jihad began in 1989 after its intelligence agency failed to trigger an uprising in India`s Punjab state despite having arming Sikh dissidents since the early 1980s.

For India, the cumulative economic and human costs of Pakistan`s undeclared war have been far greater than all the open wars it has had to fight since independence. In modern history, no state has pursued a sustained indirect war of the scope and extent waged by Pakistan against India. Nor has any state tolerated for so long a situation in which its security has been progressively impaired by clandestine war as India.

Can India allow itself to be bled further by a country that is seen internationally as a borderline failed state? The Dec. 13 attack on the Indian Parliament was an attempt to wipe out India`s elected leadership and lawmakers. If not for the exceptional courage of security personnel in the shootout, the resulting political chaos could have brought the world`s largest democracy to its knees amid the lack of clear lines of succession.

In terms of what the terrorists sought to achieve, Dec. 13 was probably worse than Sept. 11. It was the equivalent of a joint attack on the U.S. Congress and the White House. The near brush with death has left an indelible mark on the psyche of India`s main political class. It is, therefore, understandable that India should use Dec. 13 to shape its response to terrorism in the same way that Sept. 11 has defined America`s.

As poll after poll shows, the overwhelming majority of Indians feel that the country has reached the limits of its patience and that it now needs to go after the terrorists and their backers. Still, a large middle ground between the two extremes needs to be exploited before the nation considers military options.

Today, India is signaling that it has had enough and that the Pakistani military either must sever its ties with terrorism or face sustained, punitive Indian counteraction. New Delhi`s graduated approach seeks to penalize Pakistan not through immediate application of force but through nonmilitary steps up the retribution ladder.

The freeze on travel between the two countries and the downgrading of diplomatic relations are part of the new penal campaign against Pakistan. Meanwhile, as the troop buildup along the border indicates, India is also preparing for military action if the other measures fail to achieve results.

India has deployed its strike forces from Kashmir to the Arabian Sea. It has positioned a naval task force within striking distance of Karachi, Pakistan`s main port. The threat of force can yield the same results as actual force, if the threat mounted is credible and backed by the political will to wage war.

Under India`s credible threat of war, the Pakistani military has suddenly mellowed. The fire-spewing Musharraf, who periodically threatened to ``teach India a lesson`` and who recently warned New Delhi to ``lay off,`` is now meowing. And instead of nuclear blackmail, as it practiced during the 1999 Kargil war, Pakistan is dousing all talk of nuclear war, lest its first-use threat and unsheathed nukes provide an opportunity to U.S. forces to divest it of its ``crown jewels.``

Pakistan also finds itself under pressure from the United States. President George W. Bush publicly demands ``decisive`` Pakistani steps to ``eliminate`` the terrorists threatening India. India`s largest mobilization of forces since its last full-scale war with Pakistan in 1971 provides Washington an additional lever against Musharraf.

As U.S. special forces hunt for the al-Qaeda high command and many senior Taliban leaders in Pakistan, Musharraf has not been able to deliver on some key assurances to Washington. While the U.S. does not want a subcontinental war, the Indian military pressure on Pakistan is not adverse to its current regional priorities and interests.

Musharraf, even as he seeks succor from India`s other rival, China, has been left with little wriggle room. Islamabad is conveying through official sources that it intends to put the lid on Pakistan-based terror groups operating against India while continuing to support indigenous Kashmiri militant groups. It is not clear whether the Musharraf regime is serious about severing its ties with transnational terrorists or is just playing games to ease pressure.

India is likely to stay the course until it knows that Islamabad has ceased the export of terror. This means no early end to the present crisis. Indian military forces will continue to breathe down Pakistan`s neck. For India, the move from being the silent victim of an undeclared war to engaging in a declared war no longer seems impossible.

Brahma Chellaney, a professor of strategic studies with the privately funded Center for Policy Research in New Delhi, is a regular contributor to The Japan Times.

The Japan Times: Jan. 8, 2002

The Significant Unit of War Aisha,

Yours and other Pakistanis rhetoric on Kashmir suggests that Pakistan’s position regarding Kashmir is to solely to have Kashmiris granted their right to self-determinations; and everybody knows that is incorrect. I won’t lie and claim that India doesn’t have any share of blame for troubles in Kashmir, election rigging and what not, but a very, very, very large share of blame lies with Pakistan, terrorist funding, supporting, organizing, etc.

And let me also opine, your interviewee is a liar. According to him terrorists, which you convenient refer to as freedom fighter, are all Kashmiris. Even though I haven`t been to Kashmir recently and he has doesn`t mean that every thing he says regarding the situation in Kashmir should be taken as a fact.

Everyone know that large majority of terrorists foreigners, Pakistanis in particular. (I am yet to come to understand how a foreigner can be a freedom fighter. A foreigner by definition does not belong to a place where he is called a foreigner.)

I would personally like to know, do you believe your interviewee when he say all terrorists {:) are local or do you believe all the western news organizations when they report Paki terrorists operating in Kashmir? If you believe that all terrorist are local Kashmiris, do you disbelieve the scum Paki parents who proudly admit that their sons died as terrorists (shahid) in Kashmir?

And no, I personally never met any Paki parents that proudly proclaimed that their sons died terrorist in Kashmir, I only read them in the newspaper (SJ Mercury), who in my humble opinion has more credibility that your interviewee.

By the way, unlike you, I have been to Kashmir. That was back before Pakistanis started sending terrorist and I don`t remember seeing any army. Well, that is slightly untrue. I saw a lot of military, but then again I stayed in military guesthouses. And also unlike you, I do know people whom the terrorist killed in Kashmir.

Also unlike you, I have lived in a place (Punjab) when it was under attack by Pakistani sponsored terrorist. I have lived under martial law and I have lived under weeks long curfews. I didn’t mind terrorism that much in those days because it got me out of school and I didn’t really fear military either. I remember as a lad curiously touching their guns and them humoring us. I don’t remember seeing anyone beaten up by the military (there were other incidents I saw), and I didn’t hear of any rapes. But I do remember many people dying. I do remember young men claiming to be ‘attwadis’ getting arrested and interrogated (tortured). I do remember a son of my mum aquaintence getting attested. The poor chap, only 16 at the time, was running around the school yard proclaiming to be terrorist, got arrest on suspicion, got interrogated (One of the usual method forced to lie on a block of ice,) broke out of jail and was killed years later in Ambala as he tried to get out you Punjab. Yes terrorism is ugly, but this is not its most destructive side.

Terrorism is dead in Punjab for the last 10 years and much thanks goes to BB. Or was it the Pakis had all the fun they could have watching Punjabis die and now wanted to see Kashmiri blood.

The ugliest side of terrorism is that any fool, thug can become a terrorist. Leadership requires some qualities, terrorism requires only criminal instinct. Terrorists inject authority through fear, and those who oppose are killed. Terrorist are nothing more that criminal gangs. In Punjab they operated through fear and extortion. They kidnapped and threatened rich for money. The killed those who didn’t comply. They killed those you sought legal protection and their sympathizers always blamed the police or the army for defaming the Khalistan movment. According to the sympathizers, Khalistanis, bracelet-wearing slaves of God (awfully similar to Jihadis don’t you say) do not kill innocent. But yes, those terrorists did. They killed our intellectual, our liberals, and our modernists, because they want to saffronize Punjab (Sikhs wear saffron too). They killed Hindus and lots of them, they killed Sikhs and lots of them. They terrorized everyone. They created disturst within communities, they created HATE. They threatened our unity and killed our progress for more then ten years.

Let me share you an amusing story. Some time back in the 80’s terrorist stopped a bus and asked every one to get off. Then the separated the Hindus and the Sikhs. At this point Hindus are terrified that they are going to be massacred. The terrorist next separated the Sikhs in three sections, 1.) full turban and beard section, 2.) trimmed beard section, and 3.) mona section (the shaved lot.) They forced sections 2 and 3 in kookar (Kock) position and administered a beating with their shoes. Section 3 was beaten twice as hard and section 2. This time unlike other they didn’t kill Hindus. Most other times it was a hail of machine gun for Hindus.

The point is that there aren’t any good terrorist. They are all evil. Please believe the following, IN A TERRORIST’S VIEWS, EITHER YOU ARE WITH HIM OR AGAINST HIM, NO THIRD OPTION EXISTS.

Don’t be a apologist for any terrorist.

And by the way, it is easier and usually more effective to change the system from within. Kashmiris must come to terms with that. They can only gain what they want from with the Indian Union. They will not defeat the Indian military. As Tony Blair said regarding the Euro, he can take Britain into the Euro if either the media or the public was for Euro, he can’t when they are both against the Euro. Kashmir can only get what it wants if either the public or the government would support it. Right now they have no support, and will not gain any as long as terrorism persists.

Kashmiris have to get into the system and change minds. Pakistan can not deliver for Kashmir, United States can not deliver for Kashmir, and neither can angelic China. Only India can deliver for Kashmir and Indians are the only ones they must convince. India is a democracy with a lot of divisions, exploit it. Unless you believe that all of India is evil with the consensus desire to oppress Kashmir.

Running Naked Pakistanis want proof from India that many of their Pakis organizations are terrorists funded and backed by Paki government??????????

Wow....degree of your illusions are astounding. The whole world is aware that Pakis have been perpetrating terrorism. Infact you own leaders admit every now a then their terrorist endeavors. Remember Kargil....that according you are indigenous Kashmiri operation and now you (the nation of Pakistan) pays homage to Paki soldiers that died there. If Pakis want to continue to believe their own lies that is fine, the rest of the world isn`t going to. You will only achieve contempt from the world for repeatedly trying to insults its intelligence.

Pakis always want to talk. You do something outrageous and then to save your lacerated arse ``lets hold talks.`` Remember Kargill, send your army over the border and then say ``lets talk.`` Well phuck you! Shut up and mend it. Shut down the terrorists or face the consequences.

Urstruly Post 73

``...democracy is like tonsil...``

Is that typical muslis belief or your opnion? If it is a typical belief than you deserve the Pakistan you have and much worse:) Enjoy because you sure don`t have democracy now but you never know when some Kafir might force you to get some.

By the way, India has no obligation to listen to Pakistani jehadi terrorists.

Any just for you Urstruly I start the slogan....LONG LIVE THE TYRANICAL HOLY MUSLIM EMPIRE. Allah ho Akbar.

Here Are the Muslim Feminist Voices, Mr. Rushdie! Umer,

Bindrawala used ``The Golden Temple`` as his terrorist. The kunt hid behind religion kill and extort and had to be taken out by force. Indian Gov shouldn`t have waited as long as it did to take the kunt out....the longer youu give terrirsts the more people end up suffering.

Here Are the Muslim Feminist Voices, Mr. Rushdie! Ylh, (Reply to 137)

Read post 92 by Hamzad and you will know what I mean.

Here Are the Muslim Feminist Voices, Mr. Rushdie! By the way Ylh, is that you or your evil twin....

Here Are the Muslim Feminist Voices, Mr. Rushdie! Why to you people (muslims) find such glee in conversions? Is it that you want to justify that your conversion (ansestorial) weren`t political, economic, or security coersion but out of geniune faith??????????

Here Are the Muslim Feminist Voices, Mr. Rushdie! Aamir,

Your whole arguments were hollow to begin with, designed to extract applauses from other monkeys of your kinds, the ones you think are real muslims; but they shattered when you asserted 100% divorce rates in America.

You seem to be a product of 100% inbreeding.

Here Are the Muslim Feminist Voices, Mr. Rushdie! Hamzad, knock it off. You are getting as irritating as YLH.

Here Are the Muslim Feminist Voices, Mr. Rushdie! Dear Dr. Khan,

The world is vindicated to see that you want to again saddle the west with the ``White Man`s Burden``. ;)

Here Are the Muslim Feminist Voices, Mr. Rushdie! Hamzad,

Churches aren`t empty in America; infact, America is one of the more religious nutty nations.

The Price Sarwari,

Your post is a joke. I visited ``The Progressive`` and that site is a joke as well. Did I hear anyone complaining about US was in Kosovo? I wonder what happened to your type of pacifist them. If any one is to blame for current Afgan mess, it is Pakistan because it is your country that propped up Taliban and all the terrorists in the region, hell it still does.

When the Lights Hurt the Eyes Deepika, get a grip. I find a lot of things offensive in everyday life but many other don`t; and lots of people find lot of things I do offensive. Not all action are ment to give offence, so get over it.

When the Lights Hurt the Eyes My previous post should include...``Just don`t buy the video.``