Peace in South Asia I had no idea that Bilal Ahmed was unwell. Please pass my condolences to his family.

There was one occassion that I used particularly foul language on Chowk - I did not regret that it was hurled at that specific Chowk member, I did regret that it was far below the standard that Bilal Ahmed had set on Chowk. In fact, I directed my apologies to Bilal Ahmed even though he was just a bystander in the interactions.

It behoves us to work for a better India, a better Pakistan as a tribute to Bilal Ahmed. He would not have been happy to leave us when we are still squabbling like petty children or when mobs of Hindus are slaughtering Muslims in Gujarat. He was both a measure of how good we could be and how far we are from that.

The Perfect Murder To old-time Chowkies:

Hello.

The Mahatma’s Progeny There is a rally on April 20 in Wash DC in support of justice for Palestinians.

Please try to attend.

http://www.iacenter.org/a20_orgcenters.htm

Cry, the Beloved Country Hard to be American with tacit US complicity in Israel`s crimes in the West Bank.

Hard to be Indian with a Prime Minister like Vajpayee.

Got to drop all group identities and try find a new one that one can be proud of. Any ideas?

Its depressing out here.

The Mahatma’s Progeny India should kick Gujarat out of the Indian Union, provide asylum for anybody who has a well grounded fear of persecution (read all Muslims & the sane Hindus) and impose a trade embargo on Gujarat. Gujarat can return to the Union after they show some collective sanity.

I know this is a rant.

I am ready for Sonia as PM.

Cry, the Beloved Country Mr. Mander:

Congratulations on resigning from the IAS. I would like to make a token gesture of support, in words and in kind.

A resignation from a job leads to loss of livelihood - I would like to make a token donation which you may use for personal expenses or to donate to charity as you think fit.

Please let me know a way to contact you. Thanks.

Visit to Krishna-Janam-Bhoomi I had never even heard of RamJanambhoomi growing up as a kid (in the 70s and 80s) but I had heard of Mecca-Medina. For me personally, this temple has no resonance - I did not grow up equating it with Kaaba. I couldnt give a damn if the temple was built or blown-up. If it is important for others, I dont grudge them their priorities. All I know is that never in a million years will I set foot in that temple, if it ever gets built. In fact, to anybody who will listen, I would say, dont touch that temple with a mile long barge pole. Its filthy.

An Equal Reaction Shammi #302:

I agree with your recommendations. For Vajpayee to personally apologize to the victims may not be necessary but I would applaud him if he did it.

The biggest test of Indian democracy, or at least Gujarati democracy, is going to be : ``in the next assembly elections, will rioters get punished or will they be rewarded for these riots?`` - I hate to admit it but I cannot tell which way the wind is blowing.

That I do not know the answer to the question is either an indictment of my judgement or an indictment of the state of Gujarat. I hope it is the former.

An Equal Reaction I am getting fed up with Vajpayee saying that the riots were bad for India`s ``image``. Nobody but a vain man cares about image - Vajpayee did not care about ``image`` when he went in for nuclear tests.

What the riots were really bad for were the lives of the victims and the sense of security of 150 million Indian citizens. All the rest is secondary.

The biggest problem facing India right now is a moral vaccuum among large sections of Hindus. In America, the moral code of Christianity has largely been replaced by the moral code of the US Consitution - the average American talks in terms of First Amendment, Fifth Amendment, Miranda rights, Separation of Church & State etc. With the pathetic state of law enforcement in India and a religion that is almost so loose as to be meaningless, many (not all but a significant meaningful minority)Hindus are falling into a moral abyss. This is why we have seen educated people participate in the Gujarat riots and very tardy efforts to prosecute them.

Indian reform must come through the enforcement of the Indian constitution - there is no other moral code that is largely acceptable in India. Every India must understand the basics of India otherwise Indian democracy is a vanity. I would say the average Indian understands ``One man, one vote`` at a grassroots level. But beyond that : ``freedom of religion, speech; innocent till proven guilty; no group guilt`` are not well understood concepts by many Indians. The development of that moral code is the need of the hour.

An Equal Reaction In addition to the Islamic Relief Committees in Gujarat, you can also send money to the America India Foundation - www.aifoundation.org - they were set-up in response to the Gujarat earthquake and they are involved with development projects in Gujarat. They are not specifically geared up for the riots but I believe they are an organization with their heart in the right place.

Given how disillusioned the rank and file Gujarati Muslim must be, it may be a good idea for Indians, especially Hindus, to direct the aid through Muslim groups.

An Equal Reaction It is nice to note that there have been no retaliatory attacks on Hindus in Pakistan (or Bangladesh). Hindus would have been easy targets.

There are one or two who may lob a grenade in a Church but mercifully there has been no instance of mob violence with the police looking on. God bless all Pakistanis for mantaining peace and sanity at this time.

Why Are We Killing Ourselves? mithuna:

i am trying to meet with some civil rights lawyers to see if there is anything i can do here.

Why Are We Killing Ourselves? Veeresh ``Real Name`` Malik:

I never said I had a problem. Nothing that you can help me with anyway. Wasn`t looking for a gardener.

Nice try on changinging the topic.

Regards.

``Pseudonym`` Truth

Why Are We Killing Ourselves? Hobbyty:

How is it that you, as a Pakistani, do not know the demographics of Pakistan pre-1947? Odd gap in the education system.

Hindus were a significant minority in pre-1947 Pakistan. So much so that some people claimed that Lahore proper was a Hindu-Sikh majority city.

Here is an extract from the foreword of ``Lahore 1947``, edited by Ahmad Salim. The foreword is written by Ian Talbot of Coventry University.

``[Lahore] was inhabited by around 240,000 Hindus & Sikhs who at the time of the 1941 census accounted for a third of its total population [Muslim pop of Lahore was 433,000]....

Virtually all the shops in the famous Anarkali Bazaar which stretched a mile outside the walled city from Lahori Gate to Nila Gumbad were in their hands... the area around Shah Almi Gate and Chuna Mandi were also non-Muslim.

In all, Hindus and Sikhs owned two thirds of the city`s shops and paid seven tenths of its urban taxes.... Lahore was not an Islamic city, but rather possessed a cosmopolitan feel.

....The award of Lahore to Pakistan was only made public the day after independence. By that stage, extensive areas of the city which had been inhabited by Hindus & Sikhs were in ruins following weeks of what has been termed the ``communal war of succession``. The cosmopolitan, ``Paris of the East`` was a distant and poignant memory.``

If Romair reads this, he will understand what I meant by ``Ab tumhare hawale watan saathiyon`` which he had labelled an ``interesting choice of words.

By the way, there is a rule of thumb among Hindus, if your name ends in ``-ani`` like Moorjani, Panjwani etc., you are from Sindh.

Why Are We Killing Ourselves? Veeresh ``deep seated inferiority complex`` Malik #120:

You are the most insecure person I have seen on Chowk when it comes to whites - you constantly bring them into every discussion, mineral water, merchant navy, cars everything. They are like a shadow hovering you and you have hundreds of anti-White racist posts to your credit. You do this in the guise of ``wouldnt it be nice if Hindus & Muslims got together and resisted whitey``.

When I talk of Hindu-Muslim violence or war, I look at the impact on the people involved - nothing more. But insecure, racist, pea-brained Veeresh has brought in a new theory to my post - that violence by Yanks is OK because I must consider them ``superior``. Not a word in my post would hint at that - how did he come to that conclusion? Because that idea is swirling there inside of him. Its age old - its called projection.

Bewakoof.

Why Are We Killing Ourselves? Veeresh ``Lazy Intellect`` Malik #120:

You think the Ahmedabad rioters have ``stood up`` to the Muslims who committed the Godhra carnage and I`m complaining about standing up! No, bewakoof, they have slaughtered any Muslims they could lay their hands on. This is your bigot definition of ``standing up``. And it is a definition shared by many in India.

You and your ilk, the bigots of India, look at an individual and say what religious group can I associate this guy with. So a Muslim in Mob = Muslim in Godhra = Muslim in Gujarat = Muslim in India. So it is easy to say ``standing up``. A fair man, looks at a rioting group and says who are the individuals in and behind this group and how can I stop them.