Girlfriends umm ... send your friends an email ... start writing a diary ... just don`t subject us to this rot.

Cosmetic Surgery ummm ... i was under the impression that gowns were introduced in khi uni to give the place a ``scholarly`` feel ... like `back-in-the-day` during the islamic renaissance ... i`m pretty certain it wasn`t to differentiate students from teachers ...

Times to Come... what rot.

Acidity - Novellete Part II i should stop expecting straight simple statements from you. khair, well done. you`re undoubtedly talented and i don;t mean to flatter you, i think you probably have a big enough head. i still don;t get most of what you write and i won;t pretend as if i do. (question: do you understand what you write?)
i like the way you string some words together, i don;t know if i like you. bits of it made me laugh, so now i`ll re-read them trying NOT to laugh, none of it made me cry but i`ll shed some tears for you.

Acidity - Novellete Part II nfp saheb, you can really string words well man. i`m truly envious. but i`m asking myself whether all this is just a joke on your end ...

Acidity - Novellete Part I once i`m over the initial shock of reading this, i`ll be better able to say whether i like it or not. it seems very intelligent, very provocative ... but it`s also a bit too ... too ... pseudo (??). theres a part of me that screams and flashes red warning signs whenever i read stuff similar to this ...

yet again. i can`t quite figure out how i`m reacting to it.

nfp: is there anything that you do like? or appreciate? or can`t look down upon?
just questions. don`t get sentimental on me.

LUMS -- Lahore University of mis-Management Sciences man, hassan, theres no comparison between the o`/a` levels and the matric/fsc system. undoubtedly, there are smart people in the local system and they`ll retain their ``smarts`` throughout ... but the system is absolutely pathetic. a million reasons for this: lack of funds from the centre, outdated syllabi, corruption in exam boards etc. one could write a dissertation on this.

as for primary schooling, well, my only masla with most primary schools is that they don;t place enough emphasis on english. because thats the medium of instruction for most subjects (barring urdu), someone who doesn;t understand english will be unable to comprehend whats going on in science or social studies or even mathematics. its really quite sad. i`ve met some very smart children who suffer at schools because they can`t speak and understand english properly. and then a sense of inferiority may develop blah blah blah. distressing.

LUMS -- Lahore University of mis-Management Sciences raza, hassan. you guys lost me along the way, totally. what are you arguing about?!?! and raza, what the hell are you thinking?!?! writing?!?! apnay hi paoon par kulhari wala scene hai ...

LUMS -- Lahore University of mis-Management Sciences tayyab,

1) i think i explicitly said ``of course, you can`t say this about everyone from these elite schools (hold your horses tayyab balagamwala;)) but its an argument that you can make ... somewhat``.
this does not imply that everyone and anyone from these `elite` schools is arrogant. i don`t see how this sentence can even convey that ... if it does somehow manage to imply that ``everyone and anyone`` from these elite schools is arrogant, i`d like it understood that that was not what i meant.

2) yes, lums is an elite school. i don;t see many students from the low-income cadre. exceptions abound, but let`s face it, by pakistani standards lums/giki/akuh are pretty elitist. the average pakistani can only dream of such a place.

3)i used elite and elitist interchangably in the last point, although i realise the difference. it just so happens that in pakistan, as elsewhere, they often tend to be the same.
of course, there are elite schools that aren`t elitist such as cadet college hasan abdal. there are elitist schools that aren;t elite ... i shouldn`t take names:) .... then there are school that combine the properties of both: Exclusivity and Distinctiveness. prime examples are aitchison and kgs. lums lags far far far behind in this list. i MEAN far.

we can continue to argue over little details and how i mis-implied something but i hope you get my drift ...

4) and my argument was meant to exonerate the arrogance of lums students. i said that the blame for that should be distributed amongst the many feeder-schools in the country. students from these schools and from a certain background are likely to be arrogant. even in amreeka. yes, tayyab, it does mean that amreeki unis have their fair share of arrogant, spoilt, conceited pakis.

i do think that it was a flaky argument (i even implicitly acknowledged it as such) that could be shot down a million times over but it was just an argument that was meant to question the sweeping statement that lums breeds arrogance. despite it`s weakness, it at least serves it function.

regards

LUMS -- Lahore University of mis-Management Sciences well said bilal. over the past few years, most lums alumni have noticed a downward trend in quality. quality of students, quality of faculty and quality of services provided. i`d like to believe that this is temporary, an effect that can be squarely pegged to the transition from a fledgling college to a proper university ... but i don`t know how true it is. i`m hoping though.

i can be cynical and argue that from what we`ve seen of most things in pakistan, quality is a temporary phenomenon. in that light, lums built up its rep and is now earning dividends. and the more the students, the greater the profit.
(let`s make note of one thing here. its not the b.sc. program at lums that ranks #23 in asia, its the mba program. those who`ve been at lums will agree that these are effectively two separate instituions with minimal interaction. and its not the mba faculty or students that have faced this downward trend in quality. lums is still very selective about who it takes into the mba, the faculty is still very well educated, and i presume the mba`s still have their own separate computer labs, hostels etc. so in that light, perhaps the b.sc batches were simply a money-making venture to finance the coveted and `in the red` mba program. perhaps.)

but like tayyab, i`d also like to point a few good things out about the place. i won;t go as far as to say that we`re better than most uni`s in amreeka. although many lums students firmly believe that our course load is a lot tougher (for many, tougher=better), especially due to the quarter system, it`s not the sort of statement you can make with a straight face. but, yes, we get an excellent education that is incomparable in pakistan and other developing countries. the course is diverse, the system is competitive (highly grade-oriented. not always a good thing i admit), there is ample focus on real world issues (development, politics, international relations etc.), emphasis on the arts (not enough but moreso than other colleges in paksitan barring nca and indus), and there is a high rate of college acceptance amongst top-tier foreign unis. all of my friends have entered respectable, if not kickass, universities for their masters or phds. (respectable. top 25. kickass. top 5. in the particular field of study).

but what is the best part of lums is its tolerance for opposing opinion. seriously, you can blaspheme in writing and get away with it. some of you, those in the west, may find this funny but thats the sort of stuff you get lynched for in this country. and remember, half of lums is mullah-controlled. its a great great deal, worth everyones respect. with this tolerance comes a degree of liberalism, which also is a good thing in this country, in these times.

as for the arrogance of lums students, alumni. well, i think theres one prime factor that accounts for this in the b.sc. program. i don;t think it applies for the mba though. firstly, most b/sc bachas, at least those that are vocal and make their presence felt, are from elite A level schools across pakistan. it wouldnt really matter where these general/ industrialist/bureaucrat`s kids went to for uni, they`d be haughty to a certain extent anywhere. of course, you can`t say this about everyone from these elite schools (hold your horses tayyab balagamwala;)) but its an argument that you can make ... somewhat. don`t put alllll the blame on lums. sprinkle some of it across the country.

lums is a great place. it offers a great education. there may be lapse in high quality standards, but it`s hopefully only temporary. i don;t think its the level of students thats falling by that much (after all in percentage terms lums lums accepts fewer applicants than it did in 97 when i got in. i refuse to believe that the extra number of applicants are all below par), its the quality of faculty and services provided. and both these things can be rectified. like tayyab, i`d tell you to have some patience. bide your time. the top echelons of lums faculty are generally sensible people, despite what you may think while you`re there. they don;t want to see a uni they created turn into a hollow shell either ... how else will they get their sabbatical at yale? ;)

Modern Armies and Their Invincible Plans watch out shandana!! you`ll give the govt. ideas!!

Black Days in Karachi it will take upto 8 years for the karachi coast-line to recover from the damage done to the environment. it is the breeding and hatching season for most marine species in the indian ocean, so much so an ecologically sensitive period that even our ignorant govt. bans fishing during the months of june-july!! the oil spill means that one generation of marine life will be wiped out.

marine life in sindhi waters was already under grave threat before this disaster. oysters have disappeared from manora channel, fish-stock has decreased by an estimated 70% with certain fish species hunted out of the arabian sea altogether, mangrove plantations - breeding grounds for shrimp and fish - have been cut down to an area half of what they used to be twenty years ago. and now this ...

and then the socio-economic impact.(oh god). even before this disaster, the incomes of small-scale Sindhi fisherfolk were declining, in some cases to below subsistence. entire fishing villages (such as rehri miani, just around the corner) had been forced into debt. for Sindhi fishermen (about 150,000 in about 14,000 boats), the loss of coastal marine life means inevitable poverty, not only for them but for their future generations ... and i don`t hear of any compensation for these people ...
in fact, the story`s a lot worse than this. labor, the ONLY asset of the poor, is dependent upon health and education. the oil spill will have an irreversible, inescapable impact on health for people living along the coast. bad health not only lowers the capacity of the poor to generate income (when was the last time you hired a laborer with a debilitating disease?) but is also a drain on extant finances (treatment waghera). this leads to a tranfer of poverty from one generation to the next...

and to counter this increase in poverty, what will poor fisherfolk do? increase the use of banned fishing nets (that net fledgling fish, turtles etc.) that degrade the environment even further ... leads to more poverty ... vicious cycle it is.

and what do the CNS and chairman-KPT have to say? that there`s no disaster? nothing averse will happen? what a load of crock.

ps. some experts believe that the oil spill will spread to about 40 km along the coast. yeah, sounds very ``under control`` to me.

Start the Commotion too true! ... these spoilt goras!! :)

Bus Baby yes bina, we know about ``imagination`` ... perhaps you could exercise some of it next time round :)

Bus Baby #25 temporal
i had gathered that the pov was of noor`s mother ... and directness etc. are apt in such a context ... the only masla is that bina is NOT noor`s motehr, has no idea what noor`s mother felt like and from what i gathered from her brief intro has no idea what motherhood (full-stop) is about!! how can she even begin to write from such a complex pov???
it`s basic writing 101 that the author should know what they`re talking about. in this case, bina shah evidently doesn`t.

as for her past posts, well i`ve read a few and haven`t been particularly impressed (i`ve been visting chowk since 99. joined as a member in 2002. i`m slow in just about everything i do). yes yes she`s prolific and has been published two and a hlaf times over ... so what? that doesn`t necessarily make her a writer in my opinion.god knows how many books harld robbins and danielle steele have published!! sorry temp, you`ll have to defend her better than that!!

and you say ``it is not meant to be a literary masterpiece…it is to facilitate discussion over this incident…``. i don`t buy that. it was sent out to chowk because it was `considered` to be a literary piece. noone wants to get a bad poem published!
and to facilitate discussion?? the incident is OLD news now. the discussion should have happened ages ago. too late now. and in any case, ``unplugged`` would have been a better place to `facilitate discussion`.

khair, i think we`ve all wasted enough energy on this piece ... NEXT!! :)))

Bus Baby i have no problem with the subject. truly.
noor`s case is worth a thought
what i assert/aver quite vociferously
is that bina`s poem is worth nought.

it reeks of excessive effusive emotion;
*sniff* tears rush forth as we hold hands.
Crapak calls it Literature!! WHAT A NOTION!!
Be exiled from these lands!!

the poem is almost as bad as a mills and boons.
in fact, it`s just about the same.
it strives to get us misty-eyed and swoon.
And hug and kiss. tsk tsk. bina. for shame

I`m happy`n`delighted`n`over-the-moon for the two year old.
i`m surely no sadistic boor.
but, Fox News comes to mind (if all truth be told)
when i read your ditty on baby noor.

even propaganda can be good art,
just look at the work of reifenstahl.
but bina, please, have a heart
give your poem an urgent overhaul.

tahmed32 jokes about the mafia and the `fix`.
i was in fits when i read his barbs
and his lingual phonetic poetic tricks.
i concur, we sure as hell ain`t bards :)

and yet again,as yesterday, i do maintain.
rhyming words make not a Refrain.