There is no ‘honour’ in killing Oh, allow me, you ignorant religious nutcase (re #14) …

Such issues should be the focus of the ummah … which is too busy chasing Ahmadis out of mosques and looking for apostates to kill on a Friday afternoon. And you zee MiaN, are in bed with these nutcases.

There really was no need to bring up religion here, you know … but you just couldn't help taking a cheap shot ...

Musharraf\'s Resignation and Beyond hamidm (#65),

I am not sure if I agree. Iraqi liberation has been extremely painful so far and there is little reason to think that sustainable improvement will come about in the foreseeable future. The execution of the war was just as competent as the justification leading up to the war. Do you really think this will bring about democracy in the Arab land? Yes, a few Arab leaders have abandoned nuclear plans … but how long can this situation be sustained? Things in Iraq have measurably deteriorated … but without much likelihood of improvement. Is this model of democracy supposed to be inspiring for the unwashed masses??

On the other hand, if Iraq invasion is justifiable, then so is the invasion of Pakistan and Iran. So while I disagree with you, I do think your reasoning is consistent.

tahmed, on the other hand, has switched positions more frequently than Bernanke on the economy. Sahib recently admitted that the US invaded the wrong country … while insisting that he still supports his article in favor of the war. Go figure!!

+++

tahmed, there is a fundamental flaw in your comparison of Iraq with Japan and Germany.

In the case of Japan and Germany, there was clear aggression against the world by these two nations. There was consensus in the world about who needs to be punished, and why. Furthermore, very importantly, Japan and Germany were entities with well-defined boundaries. On the other hand aggression by Iraq/Saddam does not come close to what Japan and Germany were up to during WWII. Furthermore, militant Islam is not a single country that may be easily invaded and defeated. It has a diffused existence in pockets here and there spreading from Turkey to Philippines and then some.

Let us know when you finally figure out … if US invaded the right country or the wrong country. You can always flip a coin .,. you know …

Musharraf\'s Resignation and Beyond tahmed,

You are missing the point. Go back and review your posts where you cheered Iraq invasion. What did you learn, if anything? This is a rhetorical, but serious question.

But it gets funnier. If I recall correctly, you recently acknowledged that … from the American viewpoint, USA invaded the wrong country. Then you quickly added that … but from the Iraqi viewpoint, USA invaded the right country since it eliminated Saddam.

Of course, every invasion is right from someone’s viewpoint. What’s next, Mr. Genius? Should we now invade Nigeria? The sheer idiocy of your comment was shocking. Oops, we invaded the wrong country. Sorry, I guess …

I’ll remind you once again - there’s no need to discuss anything. Your lack of forthrightness gives credence to masadi’s claims about you being a spineless something without moral fiber. And while we are on the subject, here’s another title for your article: “Iraq war: How I got conned!” …

Musharraf\'s Resignation and Beyond tahmed,

You are unnecessarily distorting the issue. Your writings are more meaningful than your bag of sorry excuses. There is no need for discussions against your wishes … so give it a rest!

Good intentions of fools cause many a havoc. You should consider writing another Chowk article. “The Iraq War: What I have learnt”. Try to identify flaws in your thinking and your abuse of self-righteous rhetoric of democracy …

[You may then go back to enjoying worrying about the future of mankind.]

… or perhaps you’d rather visit your dentist … I am not sure …

Musharraf\'s Resignation and Beyond
masadi,

If it’s any consolation … I think you are taking tahmed way too seriously. Not too long ago he was cheering the Iraq war while questioning sensibilities of those critical of the invasion. Now he’d rather visit his dentist than review his ignorance or the superficial, third-rate article he wrote on Chowk (you know which one) …

Furthermore, not too long ago Sahib was suggesting that while Zardari has looted the country, Nawaz has supposedly made his wealth honestly by setting up industrial units. This was another load of crap from our google scholar …

But I don’t think he is being dishonest deliberately. In all likelihood he really is that kind of a feel-good “baewakoof aadmi” … who is unable to think beyond snappy sound-bites. I am not sure if it is his fauji background ... or obsessive desire to lectures others on the Book … or his self-aggrandized hobby where he “enjoys worrying about the future of mankind” (rolling my eyes) … that have done him in. Take your pick …

K2, the Savage Mountain Ras,

... we also learnt a lot about Holland and Spain through Capstan commercials.

Men demand Capstan - we were told ...

The Indian Mujahideen – The Answer to BJP’s Pseudo-Secularist Fascism or a New Method to Spread Unrest?
DM,

From what I know, it is consistent with Ahmadi-Muslim viewpoint as well as my own: That the message of Quran can’t be justifiably separated from the person of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) … in a sense that his (pbuh) practices and conduct are exemplary for Muslims.

The Indian Mujahideen – The Answer to BJP’s Pseudo-Secularist Fascism or a New Method to Spread Unrest?
masadi (#233),

As a general comment, domain of truth stretches all the way to the boundary of falsehood. So “one step” may very well be what separates the two anyway.

“Mainstream Christianity” declares Jesus to be God Himself. On the other hand, while associating great importance to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), Quran makes it abundantly clear that worship is for Allah alone.

+++

And I am not sure that mission of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was to only “deliver the message, period”.

While Quran does remind Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) to “only deliver the message”, it does so in the context of disbelievers. That is, if people persist in disbelief, all the Prophet (pbuh) should do is to deliver the message and leave matters at that. This perhaps is a way to remind the Prophet (pbuh) and his followers to not force their belief on others and to let others choose as they will.

However, in the case of believers, role of the Prophet (pbuh) is expanded beyond that of only the conveyer of the message. He is declared the best example for followers. Furthermore, his mission comprises not only conveying the message, but also to purify the believers and to teach them scripture and wisdom.

+++

DM (#232), I am not sure which opinion you are referring to here … so will wait for you to clarify.

The Indian Mujahideen – The Answer to BJP’s Pseudo-Secularist Fascism or a New Method to Spread Unrest? masadi (#207),

You may be jumping the gun here a wee bit … by dragging in “Islam haters” and their motives. These are irrelevant factors that unnecessarily complicate the issue.

While a book teaches a lot … is it alone sufficient for perfect understanding? At this point I am inclined to say “no”. Arguably, man is a born imitator ... and his ability to learn and to understand may be enhanced by “examples” and “models” in real life.

While having access to all the books, a person is likely to learn and understand better if he has a teacher … either at school or at home. This goes a long way in explaining why there exist schools and colleges … and most people would rather attend these institutions than study books solely on their own.

Such a viewpoint is not inconsistent with message of Quran either … which refers to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as the best model and example for believers.

+++

I view ahadith as historical accounts. Like any other historical record, some ahadith are true, some are false, while some are partly true or false. Rejecting entire works of ahadith … is like rejecting all Roman history. Granted, some of it is incorrect or distorted, but this applies to every set of historical accounts.

If reason, reflection tell me that a certain hadith is likely to be correct, I stand to learn more from it … than by rejecting it.

Yes, people exploit conflicting ahadith to further their agendas. But people also exploit conflicting Quranic passages to do the same. You may argue that Quran is consistent … but others do not necessarily see it that way.

While agreeing that Quran is entirely consistent and adequate, two individuals will yet form different, even conflicting opinions on a given topic. Even one's own view on a given topic changes with time.

And that, while not being anyone’s fault, is just the way it is …

The Indian Mujahideen – The Answer to BJP’s Pseudo-Secularist Fascism or a New Method to Spread Unrest?
kaal bhai (#206),

I am not sure what Ahmadi argument you are referring to here … but I hope you can resist the temptation of getting into another Ahmadi pow-wow :-)

Moving on ….

”… there is no human way at all to know …

“To know” is a loaded term. Knowledge is not an “all or nothing” issue; arguably it has levels and degrees of understanding. Superficial knowledge of an issue, while correct, may be inadequate under a given circumstance.

For a believer like tahmed, a lot of what Quran says makes sense, esp. when supplemented with human ability to reason sincerely. Incidentally, human ability to reason is something Quran recognizes and emphasizes.

But there is more which he seems to be in denial of. One cannot ignore the importance Quran attaches to the Prophet (pbuh). That the message and the messenger are one … is made abundantly clear in Quran.

The Indian Mujahideen – The Answer to BJP’s Pseudo-Secularist Fascism or a New Method to Spread Unrest?
tahmed (others),

You are overlooking the close association that exists between “Islam” and the “personality of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)”. As suggested by the Quran itself, the two are very much intertwined.

Alleged character flaws of Muhammad (pbuh) would raise serious questions about authenticity of Quran, striking out the roots of Islam. You may deny this, but the content of Quran sufficiently validates at least certain aspects of the Sufi love for the Prophet (pbuh).

For example, Quran strongly suggests that the Prophet (pbuh) should be dearer to the followers than their own family … that there is double reward and punishment for Prophet’s wives … that believers are not to marry Prophet’s widows after his death … that believers should send blessings and salutations to the Prophet … those who annoy Allah and the Prophet are cursed by Allah … that the role of the Prophet (pbuh) is not only to convey the message but also to purify the believers …

Regarding marriage, Quran even makes a special provision for the Prophet (pbuh), which it admittedly denies other believers (33:50).

I could go on and on … but wouldn’t want to belabor the point. I am also skipping the references to keep things simple … but can dig them up if needed. The point is that … you should be careful when attempting to separate the message from the messenger. It is not as easy (or even possible) as you make it sound.

Concept of “Syeds” etc. may very well be a different topic altogether. However, a strong argument may be made that the personality of the Prophet (pbuh) is part of parcel of the message of Quran.

America\'s Opportunity in Pakistan\'s Tribal Belt
"... only 17.42% of the population is literate ..."

This is not correct; the actual figure is closer to 17.465% ...

Of Medical Students, Passports and Religous Tolerance tahir bhai (#416) … here we go again with make-believe stories. Your post is based on innuendo and propaganda … and lacks substance (sorta like “hashish in Qadian” – grin). Other than that you may have a point!

Mystic (#417), you may want to rethink what you are trying to say; I can't make head and tail of your comments. If you keep this up, you too may go blind …

Re #414: Note that early Muslims too cited persecution when they sought refuge in neighboring nations.

Gentlemen, it’s been fun. Watch out for Mirzaees under the bed when you go to sleep at night. Boo …

Of Medical Students, Passports and Religous Tolerance
tahir bhai (re #408), you'll go blind if you keep this up ...

Of Medical Students, Passports and Religous Tolerance tahir bhai,

Are you feeling alright? What would be the point of our meeting ...?

BTW, how is the thesis on "Hashish in Qadian" coming along? Then there is this "Ahmadi-Israeli-British connection" ...

Any other conspiracy theories you are working on in your spare time? Keep us informaed ... kaal bhai too is eager to find out.

Of Medical Students, Passports and Religous Tolerance
Shah bhai (#394),

What you say about Ahmadi-Muslims applies to early Muslims as well. You should carefully think things through.

Let the Africans and Asians choose as they will. Note the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) too was rejected … first and foremost … in his own homeland. Early Muslims too were characterized the way you are characterizing Ahmadi-Muslims. So your point remains invalid.

And don’t worry too much about Ahmadis. Instead, pay attention to the ummah … which is going down the path of social and political turmoil, fanaticism, and senseless violence. Try to get your own house in order first …