Why We Need Islamization of Science Manto # 272,

``The confusion is for the feeble minded``

On both sides of pakistan, viz Iran and India, I do not see people being confused about what governing system their respective countries stand for. In case of pakistan, however, newspapers, politicians, army and mullah are still debating `Pakistan ka matlab kya`.

You seem to be focussed on extensive literature written during independence. I`m trying to relate todays reality with the actions of your nations founder. You don`t seem to be interested to explain why was religion used as a tool to create a newfound nation only to discredit the same tool. This is the seed of confusion in my opinion which has guided the destiny of pakistan. Please don`t quote me any more books.

The ideologues whom you`ve labeled as nationalists in your mind are theocratic. How come the secularists are not labeled as nationalists, if these were the people who created a separate nation?

I`m trying to point out a genuine reason for this dichotmy in pakistani psyche. You cannot stand for secular ideals and claim that religion is a personal matter while using it the same time to drive a wedge between people of common heritage. You might be convinced that secular ideals are the best and the destiny of pakistan. But try explaining to an islamist, why was a separate nation created for muslims. You cannot have the cake and eat it too.

Adios

Why We Need Islamization of Science Manto #248,

I fail to understand how this would be the view of nationalist ideologues in pakistan. If you use religion as an ideology to separate from the majority then how do you espouse secularism in the same breath. Does this contradiction mean anything to you? This ideology would in fact challenge the reason for pakistan`s existence. The only ideology that logically could carry forward the notion of a separate state is one of difference based on one`s belief. Jinnah did that. If personally he remained a secular individual and wanted pakistan to become secular after independence, then he sowed seeds of confusion for the nascent state. He wanted to form a secular state, but justified the use of religion to create another nation.
Adios

Why We Need Islamization of Science Manto,

I`m happy that the partition occured. There are many indians like me who thank jinnah for that. Neither jinnah nor any pakistani can deny the fact that was it not for islam, pakistan would not have been created. To varnish anything else over this fact under the garb of any other ideology is something that is accpeted by people who only read books, but cannot see.
i don`t think any nation has a perfect system or has been perfect in governance. But for people to claim their nation`s foundations were based on something they never followed, is surprising. But that`s the trend i see. Islamicisation of everyhting...if jinnah had expected anything else from his newfound country, I would`ve seriously doubted his IQ.
For people who say, we don`t follow jinnah`s ideology properly, all i can say is thats the logic given by islamists too....``We don`t follow islam correctly``.
Adios

Why We Need Islamization of Science Manto,
#241 was not an argument, just an attempt to run away from the facts. And thats fine by me.

Why We Need Islamization of Science Manto # 236,

``... the idea was to modernize and rationalize Islam... ``

And for that we need a separate nation, because others are a hindrance to modernization to islam. I agree with you, and the results speak for themselves.

Adios

Why We Need Islamization of Science Dear Kamran,

I don`t understand why this fuss about your article on this board. I agree with you and hope that there are more people like you in pakistan. God speed to their desire for islamicisation of sciences.

Don`t bother yourself with these ignorant people around, who don`t understand why pakistan was created in the first place. It was by islam, for islam and of islam. Islam has conquered every facet of existence, except for science. Please conquer over this too and stamp the label of islam on this one too, before its too late.

Romair # 233,

You`re right about kansas. But kansas don`t make the whole of the USA, and if others were to follow suit, they would be in trouble soon. Don`t bet on it.

Adios

If Godhra did not happen… Farzana Aunty,
Namaste.
Replace BJP here with congress and a striking similarity arises vis a vis 84 riots. An incident causes riots and then the victime never get justice. I think too much of muddling of the facts by the media and different governing parties for their interests atleast ensures one fundamental fact. To hell with the victims.
I would like to see some nice investigative journalism done for a change. More specifically ``The Hindu`` style. Perhaps the last vestige of honest journalism left in India. I think your theory of suicide squad is a little too far fetched. Hope you don`t mind.

adios

The Real Blasphemy I missed out on so much fun!!

Bina,
What do you think motivates people like van gogh to make this kind of stuff. He does it from his perspective. I think creators of religion too express themselves from their perspetive. Its their choice. Just leave it at that.

hamidm,

``may god(s) help us ``.
I think it was his unwanted, imposed help that got us into what we are today. First they all cannot resolve between themselves, who is better, on top of it we are left to battle for them. Not fair.

Adios

Letter to Prime Minister of India Manish # 63,

Thanks for your response.

I don`t believe that any opposition to any government based on an ideology can be discounted so easily. Just that the opponenets usually get discounted themselves by the methods they choose. Like the saying `` You are what u eat``, so it would be apt to say ``your ideology is what you practice`` ( sorry for the bad analogy... but you get the import).

If you look at Kondapalli Sitaramiya`s writings, you`ll note his extensive analysis of the scoial fabric on the one hand and extreme emotional attachment which led him to found People`s War Group (PWG). Within a few years of PWG taking shape, he was sidelined by the organization into a nothing. Later he resented having been the ideologue of such an outfit whose only philosophy was terrorising by indiscriminate murder of innocents.
One has to agree though that social disparity between rich and poor has not reduced due to the tactics used by PWG.

In a similar fashion what would you think of Prabhakaran, the LTTE supremo. Do you think life of Tamilians in Sri Lanka is any better because of him? Do you see any signs of LTTE problem being resolved amicably in sri lanka?

I don`t doubt that people in india are suffering on a daily basis on many counts. Religion, region or language are the last worries of a poor man something which no terroristic outfit is even capable of thinking of a solution. They want to become the messiahs themselves, but land up becoming a bigger distraction to the problem.

Adios

Letter to Prime Minister of India Manish Bhatia,

I would like to know whether Mr. Daljit singh ever expressed any concerns for the murders of thousands of citizens of india in the name of khalistan. Or was that all, a way of showing sikh pride.
Regarding the discussion on this site...
Across the sub-continent, various ethnicities when angry, somehow equate the majority community as being part of indian government. Whatever grievances they have with the authoritarian, bueauracratic babus and netas of india, is displayed by pulling people from the bus and murdering them. Kinda like george bush fighting osama by killing iraqis and hoping it would have an effect on al qaida. Now a terrorist in india may sugar coat with any nonsense about their religion or ethinicity or any other dried crap they want, but it ain`t gonna stick for long.
The best part is that the government in india is least concerned about the innocents dying at the hands of any such terrorists. The government acts against the terrorists only when their power is threatened. Not only that, the government then is complicit with communal elements in creating mass murder at opportune times.
Look at the rise of shiv sena in maharashtra. They detested the outsiders coming and taking up their jobs. So maratha pride becomes an issue. Would that justify them to create a murderous outfit to fight non-maratha innocent citizens of india? I guess not.
I think what remains is people of rajasthan should start fighting the center in the name of their cultural destruction and rajputana heritage. All the rajasthanis should pick up Ak`s and shoot the film stars from all over india who come to make cheap songs with some of the world`s best forts and palaces. And mind you Rajputs are very distinct from the rest of the Hindus in terms of their culture, language and rituals. I`m sure they too can invent enough resons to be upset about the hegemony of some urban indian culture masked as hindi culture.
Ten years down the line chowk staff will be glad to publish letters from some rajput terrorists on the nuiances of running government in india. Thats our national character... a sweeper may be unable to perform his role of cleaning up the street, but he`ll bloody well tell you how to run the country. What`s worse there are enough morons who are willing to become his bhagats.
Enough of this nonsense of my ethnicity/religion not getting its due share at the center stage. Think about your food, shelter and personal dignity being taken care of. The above three still are in short supply across the communities in india.
There`s no one in india including the hindi belt people who can have a complete say in all matters. People who are having more say today in india are doing so not by virtue of their ethnic background, but by their educational and economic background. India is moving ahead from having dissents due to tribes, languages and religions, and making economic and technological differences as cause for gaps in communities.
I`m getting fed up of people just making their respective religions as victims of everyone else and there by carving a distinct identity for themselves.
Adios

The Doll’s House Farzana,

That was well written.
Frustrations of many indians be it on social or political issues cannot always be coloured in communal terms.
I`m sure there was no communal angle when diana was killed being chased by Papprazis. Try not to inject your frustrations which are also a represntative of general muslims in india, always through the same angle. We indians in general are over-expressive about our respective religions, languages etc. Ask a north indian living in southern india or vice versa about adjustments to various things. Ask a desi grocery shop owner in US why he has to diaplay american flag after 9/11. The minority vs. majority issues are common throughout the world. Yes the degree varies certainly. Some adjustment to majority is always required everywhere.
We had the partition of india for the same reason, as some people were not willing to adjust to a changed reality. Your problem is that muslim community which remains backward due to its own reasons alos is unwilling to look at skihs, jains and christians who are growing and developing faster than majority community. Indeed partition, in the minds of indians have created some problem for the muslims in india. I`m against this nonsense of proving one`s loyalty to a nation. But reality anywhere is largely a fleeting emotion caricatured by events fresh in the minds of people. I`m sure sept. 11 has created immense problems for US muslims who are having to prove there loyalty to US in more ways then one.
On a different note though, do you believe that Gudiya would have been allowed to have her own say if Zee were not present?
Adios

When Pigs Fly Adnan,

Thanks for spreading some smile to chowkies.
Adios

The Company Bahadar Sameer #50,

I`ve never justified mis-management, poverty, misery in the name of culture, faith etc. in india. And I understand your post being close to mine, But you draw different conclusions than i do...
Facts about british or moghuls can be presented (both good and bad) in today`s context. But the larger picture which arranges these facts to complete the puzzle, is what compells me to speak the way i do. You mentioned about the Britisher`s record keeping etc. I don`t believe loot is ever accounted for with proper book keeping. The condition of oppressed and their wealth whether in iraq today or india once upon a time remains the same. Even today the US government and the army does not acknowledge civilian deaths in iraq, the amount of oil they are trying to export etc. They are leaving faster only because, now they know its not profitable in iraq anymore. Whether in india or anywhere else, the british remained as long as it was profitable. Unless they should be foolish enough to run a country at a loss to themselves. Countries like portugal were not remotely as smart as britain was. The portugese enjoyed pludering the temples and were driven by greed for spices and evangelism without any long term plans. The british were quite focussed and never resorted to tactics that could antagonise the locals unneccsarily. After all without these natives, their machinery would never be effective.

I`ll continue later...
Adios

The Company Bahadar Harimau # 37,

I don`t believe my statement on SN Bose mentioned that he discovered the class of particles called Bosons. Reading comprehension issues are meant to be resolved upto high school.

``The fact is that a British judge could apply the law among the ``natives`` without fear whereas people did not necessarily receive justice in the princely states and under the Muslim sultans. You might find it hard to swallow that the British were fair at least in cases involving only Indians on both sides``.

I don`t find it hard to accept that in matters that did not affect them, they have tried to demonstrate superiority and fairness, which pea brained people can easily take it as their all encompassing virtue in every sphere of life. In any case their own nation suffered from discriminatory laws against the poor and low class.

``Adios

Fcuk You``

I understand now why you throw insults at interactors. Though its not your fault. It has to do something with your upbringing. Perhaps the substitute for Adios or bye in your family has been Fcuk you.

In that spirit, Adios Harimau!!

Now go and pray at the Khushbu temple for more sense.

The Company Bahadar Sameer # 28,

``It all boils down to philosophy``

I think it all boils down to perspective. A recent study has shown that Africa had not known poverty or other problems, until the white man arrived. Please go to the archives of PBS or NPR to find that article. The british propagated the idea of civilizing the sub-human blacks in their own country for recruitment purposes. Once the white man arrived in Africa, the local social system or rather the entire way of life was turned upside down. The new system imposed, was meant to optimize profits for the white man. Poverty, natural disasters and other problems started taking its toll on the local population, resulting in an africa that we know of today. I think there`s a lot of merit in Dr. Amartya Sen`s thesis about natural disasters. His theory implied that the bengal famine and the deaths of millions thereafter were definitely a result of britsh policies. Bear in mind that, the british never allowed food grain distribution to the famine stricken, despite having a surplus in their hold.

In india, the kings/sultans had their own oppressive machinery in place. The british indeed bestowed a little more freedom and justice to attract locals to their fold. Even so, their purpose to occupy or rule india was never altruistic in nature. The system they had in place was to maximize exploitation of our resources with apathy towards locals or their affairs. It took people like raja ram mohan and others to persuade the british to end some filthy practices in our society. But unfortunately, an indian mind still gives the credit to the british for such changes. Since there weren`t many such muslim social activists, the britsh allowed them to stagnate in that condition, and that created a disparity between the two largest communities.

I don`t blame the britsh for divide and rule policy. We were anyway divided by the local princes/nawabs due to their own whimsical attitudes towarads each other. The british merely used that opportunity to maintain a staus quo between these various rulers and benefit themselves by becoming arbiters in their disputes. The moment you allow an outsider to arbritrate for you and your neighbour, real power drifts towards the arbiter.
Their genius was in convincing us that they alone could remain free and fair towards us all. While behind this fairness and justice (which we held so dear, due to our obsessive fights with each other), they silently looted us all. If a thief steals your wedding ring and openly flaunts it the next day, you`ll be tempted to call him so. But then Queen of england still remains Mallika despite the kohi-noor or other looted stuff. I don`t know whether to admire the british or pity our state.

India is labeled one of the richest in culture and languages. We`ve got atleast 22 of them. And yet every indian language is slowly dying. Only because we cannot see one indian language take precedence over others, while allowing everyone to flourish as well. The alternative we`ve preferred is to have a foreign language, which is resulting in the demise of all local languages slowly. The only exception is Kerala, where the local culture and language is still flourishing in parallel with everything else.

I hope you get my point.. though its too long.

Adios

The Company Bahadar Harimau,

SN Bose will be forever remembered due to a class of particles called Bosons.

Unfortunately for you, there weren`t many people like you in british india, who could have persuaded them to stay back and hand over proper justice to all. Imagine, we would have become the most unique country in the world, asking our masters to stay back. Well its too late now, but atleast you can apply for british immigration and remove this unsatisfied longing for a perfect rule ):.
Adios