Between Musharraf and Mullahs—Who Won? I personally think Mush could have come to a better understanding with the PPP if he had done two things..
1) Allowed th majority party in Sindh to come to power (aka the PPP )

2) Released Zardari on jail..

With that done ...the 17th amendment would have passed...with minimum grief.

p.s: Whats wrong with Chowks editors? I`ve e mailed them twice and had no response?

Between Musharraf and Mullahs—Who Won? arjun: I don`t believe any Indians came out during Indira Gandhis Emergency to protest..weren`t they all arrested? The only reason Indira Gandhi held elections was because her intelligence sources told her she`d win..

Between Musharraf and Mullahs—Who Won? The Indian Supreme Court has a similar check on the use of dismissal powers. All Parliamnentry democracies have some form of dismissal powers granted to the Constitutional figure head...wth time the practice falls into disuse. In Pakistan`s case any check or balance is open to abuse as long as you have people who see things in the light of power grabs.

Seducing The Devil The MMA has in the ned taken a very pro democracy stance in this whole issue. While negotiations with the PPP stalled because of the BB-Zardari factor, solely. The MMA did what any responsible opposition party would have done it negotiated an exit strategy for the Army, as has been the practice of every civilian parliament since teh first martial law. Surprisingly the MMA accepted clauses in the LFO which reversed Zia`s Islamisation..like the joint electorate..the increase in womens seats and so on....irrespective of their political idealogy..I think they have come out of the whole story as a nationlly recognised political force..which may deliver dividends in Punjab and Sinh come next election.

Will Persecuting Hashmi Help? lol nice choice of quotes, but I believe that`s every Pakistani leaders swan song as a way of getting aid...

I don`t agree with the New York Times article in it`s entirety but one comment made in it struck me as something which saddened me ..

Farouk Adam Khan had been chief prosecutor during the initial period of crusading. One Sunday night, I found him in his law office, sitting under the dim light of a single desk lamp. ``Pervez Musharraf had a great opportunity,`` he said, ``but he lost it in the pursuit of power.``


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

All i can think of is et to Mush?

Who will be the next PCB Chief >>>>>>>>>>why not to appoint Imran Khan as Corps Commander Lahore<<<<<

Actually PML(N) MPA said something similar he wanted to make the late Nawabzada Nasrullah the COAS lol. I think Tauqir zia should have left a long time back, unfortunately few people know when is the right time to bow out. This whole PCB mess shows quick fixes just don`t work and nothing can replace long term institutional strength. Unfortunately what with Ramiz Raja, Amir Sohail and co having their present tantrums expect things to get worse before they get better.

My Pakistan
Interesting...sounds like India is providing shelter to terrorists?


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/3246066.stm
Maoist leaders are said to be using India for shelter.

India is also a member of Interpol and, like Nepal, has branded the Maoist rebels as terrorists.

The Central Bureau of Investigation said India had no reports that Nepali Maoist leaders had taken shelter in the country.

My Pakistan pmishra: Islamophobes..like yourself do truly represent the best of secular thought :)

My Pakistan Mantolives: I thought I`d add something about your point about Cunningham, first to quote from one article, by A R Siddiqui:

``In Waziristan all the Maliks and Khassadars were Muslims as well as a large section of the regular army. That compromised Ipi`s claim as the sole defender of the faith in Waziristan, without either affecting or diminishing his hostility towards Pakistan. His only redeeming feature was that in no way would he actively associate himself with the Kabul-inspired Pukhtunistan bogey. Until his death on April 16, 1960, he went on to lead his band of tribal hostiles without creating any major problem for either the provincial or the central government. According to one theory the legend of the Faqir as an irreconcilable recalcitrant was kept alive by Qayyum Khan to keep the Centre in perpetual awe of the Frontier tribes whom Qayyum Khan alone knew how to handle and control.``
http://www.khyber.org/pashtopeople/faqiripi-crossbordernexus.shtml

Secondly I have checked Alan Warrens book on the Faqir of Ipi, although he semed to have a broef flirtation with the Pakhtunistan movement in and around 1950 at no point does it mention any link between either Khan brother and the Faqir of Ipi.

Lastly, with regard to Cunnigham, he may have been an impartial person, but he was only as good as the Intelligence he was provided and factually it seems the targetted victiomisation of the Frontier Congress had less to do with seccession and more to do with power grabs and personal enmities.

My Pakistan Mantolives: As I mentioned ..the alleged accusations of Ghaffar khan being in league with the Faqir are precisely those...alleged :)..

Also, while you may believe the MMA lot could be worse than the BJP, factually presently something like a thousand people in Gujarat may disagree with you. Similarly, I believe the Christian community has been targetted as well....so to be fair the BJP/RSS are very fair and balanced in their approach...towards all significant religious minorties.

#80 by bharatvaasi:``It is not indians who get involved in terrorist activities. ``

^ Nope only state sponsored terrorism, ...or Invasions..I mean, supporting the Mukhti, the Tamil Tigers and other groups..is support for terrorism isn`t it? Proviidng Shelter to terrorists in the early 70`s against Pakistan and against Sri Lanka is fine...but God forbid, the peace loving Indian people or their government ever be equated with doing the same?..Talk about being self righteous :)

My Pakistan Dear Mantolives,

Thanks for the interesting discussion, I gues one cannot claim to be right or wrong in these issues, the ``Khan brothers`` greatly miscalculated when they asked for the removal of governor Olaf caroe, who is to know if Cunningham`s reports were accurate? I can imagine either side could be right..but it is a debate which deserves more research.

Attacking Jinnah personally was common practice, even more so by the Feudals in the Unionist Party, the difference is they knew when to switch sides! Jinnah was human in the end and not above criticism. To expect the ``Khan brothers`` to see Pakistan from the exact point of view as the Muslim League is also unfair, the KK tehrik was an anti colonial movement, the Muslim League was a pro muslim movement, the two are not neccessarily synonymous. the League used the ``Muslim/Islam in danger from the majority`` card extremely well, but that had little resonance with the Frontier, initially, because it is a Muslim majority area and there was no fear of another ethnic group dominating. It was only when the campaign heated up and the call was that fellow Muslims had been attacked did the mood swing towards the league. As a result you will always find a very difefrent view of partition amongst many people in the Frontier.

Lastly, before I wrap up this conversation, perhaps you should read ``The Pathan unarmed``, it is written by an Indian (Indians still seem fascinated by the KK movement) and is a very good read on the movement prior to 1947. Also I believe the PPP and NAP had come to a certain a djustment initially post 1972 but it was ZAB`s personal antagonism for Wali Khan ( used to call ZAB Adolf Bhutto) and Mengal, as well as the opposition in general! which forced the NAP towards other opposition groups. It`s a lesson which most Pakistani politicians in opposition have since remembered, when it comes to an overpowerful leader entrenched in Islamabad, all political opposition groups should be treated as allies, because on their own none would suceed.

All the best!

Zakk

My Pakistan Mantolives: I do not intend to to turn this into name calling :) we all live and learn and if I am wrong and there is enough evidence to prove so I will admit it. I prefer a debate over facts, or individuals perception of facts rather than atatcking people personally.

Two Pakistani references on Ghaffar Khan and Wali Khan, one being Sherbaz Mazaris book, the other The Frontier Gandhi: His Place in History by
Muhammed Soaleh Korejo. These are distinctly Pakistani view points on both father and son. Incidentally, Wali Khan is no disciple of his father, he was in fact influenced in politics more by his Uncle Dr Khan Sahib, who preferred dealing with the Pakistani establishment, his reward was becoming Chief Minister of West Pakistan and a subsequent assasination.

Ghaffar Khans politics in the Pakistani context can be understood in another light, who did he associate with soon after Jinnahs death? Mian Iftikharuddin and other secularist Muslim Leaguers in the Pakistan Azad Party. Scarcely the move of one supporting Shariah law?

Factually what could be said is Cunnigham and Qayyum Khan suspected a possible link between the Khan brothers and the Faqir of Ipi..but in the end it was an unproven allegation? Even so Qayyum Khans targetted atatcks on the ``Congressities`` was exceptionally brutal and totally disproportionate. But, to be fair Qayyum was behaving true to himself, he neither spared fellow Muslim Leaguers nor did he spare the ``congress`` when it came to a challenge to his position of power.

Again Mantoliives this is no defense of all of ghaffar Khans actions, he committed a major blunder by not working an accomodation with Jinnah.


Being in jail is no excuse. Many great leaders have led movements from the jail, >>>>>and despite what you say about Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, his government was never >>>>>colonial, raj like or South African. Wali Khan and his party were part and parcel of >>>>>PNA, are you suggesting that he would have backed out of the PNA had he been out >>>>>of the jail?

I`ll diverge if I get into a debate about ZAB ( his brilliance aside he was exceptionally brutal towards his opponents and friends alike), again as I said Wali Khan and the Baluch leftists like Bizenjo were in jail and the NAP under massive government pressure had effectively ceased to exist. There is also no evidence to say Wali khan supported the Nizam-e-Mustafa tehrik.

I also find it hard to believe if the situation had been normal, that the NAP and religious parties would have worked so closely, circumstances forced them to do so. While the fact that religious party workers used the opposition platform to promote their own agenda is not in doubt, but that again is very different from all constituent parties supporting it. The NDP`s leadership in fact had opposed the Nizam-e-Mustafa slogans as Sherbaz Mazari stated in his book.

Maybe I am confusing Wali Khan with Ajmal Khattak... who is after all a leading light >>>>of the ANP, a committed follower of the Bacha Khan and even looks like him... he is >>>>a secular left wing politician... but his deliberate back stabbing of the honor killing >>>>resolution makes sense when you look at ANP as a purely Pushtoon movement.

I don`t think Ajmal Khattak looks like ghaffar Khan lol, his nose is much smaller ;). The anti honour killing resolution was as dead as a door nail primarily because Wasim Sajjad and co ensured it`s defeat. What I would say about some elements in the ANP backing for the defeat of the resolution is someting more simplistic than Pakhtun traditions, the person involved in the killing of Samia Sarwar, was close friends with several members of the ANP including one MNA who has now rejoined the PPP after switching between the ANP and PPP for most of the last decade, as well as several associates of Ajmal Khattak. Cowasjee has written about the whole incident several times.

http://www.dawn.com/weekly/cowas/990808.htm

So factually Wali khan has never supported honour killings, and the ANP`s offical stance in the whole issue is stated in this old press release. excerpts quoted after the link:

http://www.karachipage.com/news/Aug_99/080599.html

According to a participant, Senator Ajmal Khattak who had gone against the party line >>>in the Senate and supported the honour killings, gave the excuse that he was quoted >>>out of context and he had not in actual terms supported the killings.

My Pakistan Mantolives: I am not defending Ghaffar Khans political motives or Wali Khans, My argument is on the historical accuracy of what you are saying.

Ghaffar khan did make the third option on the referendum at a very opportunistic stage, he was in the end betrayed by the Congress Party, and his subsequent failure to accept Pakistan was a major political mistake. Qayyum Khans opposition (his being a highly personal enmity between himself and the KK) to any detente between Jinnah and Ghaffar Khan was well known, I believe he told Jinnah that there was a plan to assasinate him..as a way of preventing the summit..

1)The original Khudai Khidmatgar movement was an anti colonial social reform movement. Giving the conservative nature of Pashtun society I wouldn`t be surprised if both the ``khan`` brothers had supported the Faqir of Ipi at some stage, but with time the Pakistan Azad Party and the NAP became secular left wing parties. They did not believe in the mixing of religion with politics, and senior ANP politicians have a very low threshold for ``mullahs``.

2) In the NAP`s case it`s support for the JUI was a case of realpolitik, the same way the PPP brought the JUI into the government in 1973. Or the MMA`s support for the PPP post 2002 elections in Sindh. The NAP-JUI alliance was in the end strengthened because of the PPP`s victimisation of the opposition, the same way the PPP-PML alliance has been.

3) Again I believe your comment about the Nizam-e-Mustafa is an historical inaccuracy. Wali khan was in jail at the time, along with other NAP leaders after being targetted by the PPP government in an trumped up conspiracy case (the Hyderabad conspiracy). The NAP itself had been banned and it`s successor party the NDP was led by Sherbaz Mazari. Which as part of the PNA allaince had to accept the decision by other groups pushing the Nizam-e-Mustafa. Whether practically if the allaince had won, it is very doutful if they would have supported any ``Islamisation push``. So being in jail and effectively having little say in the NDP how could Wali khan support the Nizam-e-Mustafa tehrik?

4) I don`t recall any statement by Wali Khan supporting honour killings, you may have confused him with Ajmal Khattak during the infamous Samia Sarwar resolution? At the same time I do remember Rhode Scholar Wasim Sajjad supporting the rejection of condemnation of honour killings?

I also remember the present Foreign minister Khurshid Kasuri approaching Asfandyer Wali for support in a bill against honour killing sometime in 1998. Which Asfandyer had promised to do....

Like I said, I am no supporter of the Wali`s (although I think asfandyer has the potential to be a real national leader) but, I do know many people associated with the ANP, and your comments seemed a bit inaccurate.

My Pakistan YLH: You seem to be making some big assumptions about Ghaffar Khan and Wali Khan. Firstly, if they were so pro MMA as you seem to believe, why did the ANP leave tyhe ARD over the US attack on the Taliban. the ANP stated it believed the Taliban were bad for the people of Afghanistan. Secondly please confirm where did Ghaffar Khan associate himself with a Shariat movement? Again the Nizam-e Mustafa movement was a PNA act, and Wali khan was in jail at that time, so he had little to do with his supporters throwing their lot in with the combined oppoistion in a move to ha;t a civilian dictator.

Secondly, the MMA and Pashtuns in general have no histpory of Modi style pogroms, state sponsored pogroms in the 21st century so far only have happened in India.


Realistically, practical politics has forced the MMA to modify it`s extremist ideas. I would still not vote for them given a chance though..

My Pakistan Ahmadzai, Akhtar dhay umbaraksha I assumed you had written this piece?

Just a point, left wing/secular parties vote bank was surprisingly not affected by the MMA, in real termsa there total number of votes they polled was higher than previous elections, I think the MMA in the end will be jduged by their eprformance, and I am afraid that`s been found wanting. Unless they do a Modi ...

Punjabi Heroes that History Forgot YLH/Mantolives: >Islamic efforts he was supported by the Khudai Khidmatgars and the >great Bacha Khan (who ironically is held to be a great secularist by some of our Indian >friends and some of our misled Pakistani friends like NHK)

Well in part I agree with you, you don`t call a movement Khudai Khidmatgar and then state your a secularist, but the fact is the NAP, NDP, and ANP were secular parties. But, bacha Khan was never a part of those parties..as far as the Faqir of Ipi is concerned I don`t think he had much association with the KK movement..the KK, was never a strong force in Southern NWFP.

Wali Khan s/o Bacha Khan, another great `ethnic` leader was part of the `Nizam-e->Mustafa`

A bit of an exaggeration, Wali Khan and his colleagues in the NAP were under arrest during the PNA movement, and factually all parties had united to oppose a civilian dictator, as they did in the 60`sagainst Ayub Khan and in the 80`s against Zia. the NDP`s leadership Sherbaz Mazari were not Islamists by any stretch of the imagination...

outlaw Honor killing in NWFP .. Historically the ethnic forces in NWFP have coopted >religion... Wali Khan had helped Mufti Mahmood create the first Mullah Government in >NWFP.

Well yes, they agreed to co-operate with each other at the Provincial level in both provinces. But, to call the JJui-NAP government a Mullah government in the same league as the MMA NWFP one is a gross exaggeration, it is the equivalent iof calling Benaris alliance with Fazlur Rehman an example of her religious credentials.

I am not aware of MMA`s efforts to `Urdufy` NWFP... I don`t see that to be the case and I ?>have followed the politics there closely. Maybe Jamaat e Islami might try to do that being >a more of an Urban party,

No, in the 70`s the JUI and NAP passed a bill declaring urdu with English the Provincial langauge of NWFP (a fact which many Pashtun nationalists have not forgiven Wali Khan and co for.) similarly a bill was passed again decklaring Urdu the only language of NWFP..and the MMA has opposed bills declaring Baluchi and Punjabi provincial langauges ..more recently in the Baluchistan Assembly and Punjab Assembly.

http://www.dawn.com/2003/08/25/nat10.htm
http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/aug2003-daily/29-08-2003/oped/o5.htm