The Laying to Waste of the World: a Memory of I.H Burney Studebaker, #233

``The American president George Buch shakes hands with the Russian president Vladimir by aorta in the White House by Washington yesterday``

Is this what is meant by a ``heart-to-heart talk``??!

A World Upside Down Re: Post #275

Hilarious read...! I hear this was originally supposed to be the script for Amir Khan`s new movie, but was shelved because there is no part in it for a Bollywood starlet. But the rumblings are that Shahrukh Khan has no such misgivings. However he has asked for a rewrite of the script (even though it was very industriously written) because it is too similar to his own attempts at writing a thriller novel ...

A World Upside Down (harimou # 32)

(Sob! sob!) I wuz WRONG! Soooooooooooooo WRONG! (Sob!) It`s been India that has been the sole bastion of freedom and l-o-v-e all along in South Asia and I`ve mistakenly thought her policy of also using the army and police to torture individuals was a bad thing. Now I find out she has been the shining light all along. (Bawl!) The TRUTH that it is India who is wronged, maligned, recently-jilted, overwrought, overfed, unsupported ... well, forget the overfed bit ...

(never mind the ``WE``RE HIJACKED BY THOSE UNWASHED PAKISTANIS! ... What? Oh. Um.... never mind......we just wanted some attention ... and try to get the US to blame those Pakistanis). Never mind the kaboom (or Ka-bumb!) that killed the poor unfortunate souls in Kashmir this week. ``IT``S THOSE UNWASHED PAKISTANIS WHO DONE DID THIS!!(conveniently enough JUST when India needs a handy bomb explosion or two and the LAST thing that is in Pakistan`s interests, we get a made-to-order ``militant`` attack. Let`s have the Jaish-e-whatever take the credit by calling it in. Never mind that they vehemently deny it... we`ve already called in their admission ... we just want to blame those Pakistanis) The policy of raping Kashmiri women to create fear and humiliation among the Kashmiris was actually the beatification (perhaps even the beautification ...) of Kashmiris ... oh HOW could I have been soooooooooooooo WRONNNNNNNNNNGGG! (Many more sobs!) And now, horror of horrors! It is actually -(let me repeat this!) It is ACTUALLY - Islam that is at fault! Oh joy!! I see the mystical glow of enlightenment already .... no, wait! Sorry, it was the mystical glow in Bin Laden`s eyes ...

Jihad: Paradoxes and Defining Moments I`m a bit surprised YLH has not rebutted a couple of posts here, re ``Shame``. That book WAS written by Salman Rushdie. I have it in front of me on my table, and a must read it is, too. Now, Taslima Nasreen may also have a book by the same title, I don`t know about that. But I think YLH is referring to Salman Rushdie`s ``Shame``

Islams Challenge Aisha Sarwari, glad you were able to see the interview of Musharraf on CNN. I thought that while he was not as freely relaxed as in the Agra coverage (understandably so - he is under intolerable pressure, the likes of which I doubt any other leader in the world today would be able to handle as well as Musharraf has. He has shown exceptional selfless courage. Christiane Amanpour said on the BBC that he has put his neck on the line. Larry Goodsen, on CSpan said he watched Musharraf in stunned silence. He (Goodsen) said he saw a man sign his own death warrant) - yet he came through with his straightforwardness and clear presentation of his direction.

You (and others here as well) will want to see another interview of him on the BBC program ``Hardtalk``. I thought this was even better, taking into account the hard questioning the BBC reporter was pursuing. This will repeat throughout Tuesday on the BBC (3, 8, 11 GMT). Hope you are able to see it.

Explaining it to an American Friend Harimou, (ref # 341). There is no need at all for you to make derogatory remarks about our Prophet Mohammed. It makes you sound like a drooling extremist, and we know you wouldn`t want that (drooling or otherwise)... Please apologize for the remark.

Caught In Between For info: Christiane Amanpour interviews President Musharraf on CNN at 11 am Sunday.

Islams Challenge For info: Christiane Amanpour interviews President Musharraf on CNN at 11 am Sunday.

Islams Challenge Mass-mak, what is the matter with you? Are you not able to think? Lack of knowledge (in other words: IGNORANCE) is the reason for this. Lack of knowledge creates bigots who then spread hate. Lack of knowledge about their own religion causes people to be at the mercy of the mullah-types. Lack of knowledge is why you are begining to sound like the media - they make the same judgements about Islam over and over again even though there are western writers who have proved those statements prejudicial.

To help you with getting the knowledge I am talking about, I will give you a suggestion: I won`t tell you to read the Quran. I won`t tell you to read some book by a muslim or a middle eastern or a south asian author. Instead I want you (and others who feel similarly to you) to get two books by a woman. A British woman. In fact, a British woman who was a nun for 7 years. Get ``Mohammed`` and ``A History of God`` by Karen Armstrong. Read these books, and I tell you that if after reading them you STILL feel the same way about the religion of Islam, then I will convert to whichever religion you suggest to me.

Breaking News: September 11, 2001 sridhar #131

It just cannot last ... compassion for the poor victims can only go 4 - 5 posts befor some Indian decides to try to somehow pin this on Pakistanis and sling some more crap around...

Here is what you say: ``Exactly what i have been saying all along as an argument against Jehad in Kashmir. Do you now realize how unjustified this and similar acts of terrorism are? Can you blame USA if it strikes with full force against perpetrators of this crime? Of course, the group which has committed this ghastly act may claim justification (couched in moral and religious jargon)as they usually do. Soon, the world will be divided into those who support terrorism (covertly or overtly)and those who oppose it. It will be interesting to see where Pakistan stands.``

Talk about being self-righteous! Of all the looney tunes .... Let India look in the mirror. That is Indian state terrorism you are looking at. Terrorism against innocent Kashmiris! Yes, the world indeed will take a stand against terrorism. And yes, it will be interesting to see where India stands ...

Breaking News: September 11, 2001 gowardhan, incredibly, I actually AM seeing celebration. Gleeful, opportunistic, celebration. I see it in your post. Shame, Shame, Shame on you. Human beings, brothers, mothers fathers sisters - for GOD`S sake - LITTLE children have died here. All you can do is salivate about how to blame Pakistanis for this. Shameful.

Breaking News: September 11, 2001 nameless and gowardhan in particular: Are you guys for real? There will be time to point a finger at those it should be pointed at. If it is your intention deliberately target Muslims and Pakistanis, then you have made it plenty clear in the posts. If ever I heard prejudice and malignancy it was there. Be very clear in your minds that we Pakistanis are shocked and stunned by this news in NY - there is no support for terrorists among us.

Top Ten South Asian Pieces of Music Tantralogician, (in post #131) you really must READ before going off like a blunderbuss in a Yosemite cartoon. Here is what I said:

``He came to Pakistan, his land of dreams, and lived in LaluKhet til he died.``

Where does this say anything about his lack of love for Delhi? I talked with him and he expressed a deep love for Delhi. He also expressed his hopes and dreams for Pakistan. It is a tragedy that we in Pakistan did not value him as we should have, and in fact there are many other musicians/artistes TODAY, that we in Pakistan do not value. I consider these treatments criminal. Ustad Bundoo Khan lived a poor man in the slums of LaluKhet. He had to feel bitterness at his treatment, yet he only expressed love for Pakistan. So don`t go giving me any crap about fantasies/schmantasies. I am angry enough at the way we treat our artistes. Besides, this is a MUSIC forum. Keep it this way. I want to hear about MUSIC, not another mudslinging match. I really have no patience for it.

Top Ten South Asian Pieces of Music My deepest apologies: How could I possibly leave out Attaullah Khan Esakhelvi? Or Noor Jehan? Or Iqbal Bano? Or Mehdi Hasan?

I have been listening to these as I write:

``Mujhay Tum Nazar Sey ...``

``Wo Ishq Jo Hum Sey Rooth Gaya ... ``

``Mohabbat Karney Waley Kum Na Hongay ...``

Top Ten South Asian Pieces of Music This demands not just the older songs be listed, but the newer ones as well. And we have been given real gifts in the singers that have come out in Pakistan:

Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan: Simply head and shoulders above anyone else. Iran has a singer, Shahram Nazeri, who performs Rumi`s poetry, and sings it as no one else I have heard. He is worth listening to. Once, in a conversation with him, he said of Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan: ``A singer like him comes along once every 500 years. We don`t know how fortunate we have been to have had him in our lifetime. We are not going to see anyne close to him for another 500 years.`` While the 500 years is just a number, I think the spirit of what he was trying to say has meaning. (As an aside, another Iranian singer not to be missed is Sima Bina, who sings folk/sufi poetry).

Even with the presence of Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan (to whom I listen every single day), there are others I would not be without:

Pathana Khan. What he did with that one single performance in Multan, one warm evening in April, moving us incomparably with his rending, poignant ``menda ishq wi toon ...`` has forever left a mark within me.

Abida Parveen. What an incredible, incredible treasure she is!

``Hairan`` Shah: singing Sindhi kafis with a wild, whirling mosaic of voice and movement, in the desert of Larkana,well into the early hours of dawn, til his voice was softened gravel, and his kurta had torn loose as he tried to pull out his very emotions from within his chest ...

Hadiqa Kiyani, Mussarrat Nazeer, Nayyara Noor and Munni Begum, intoxicating us with the shaeiri.

Sajjad Ali, who somehow brought to me the exact same memory and feeling of days in Clifton, Bath Island, of such wonderful innocence.

Junoon, who have suddenly done what I thought would be done by Sajjad Ali: They have come up with a mix of modernized traditional poetry that is an anthem. Just listen to ``Rohnde naina``, ``Ghoom, ghoom`` from ``Parvaaz``.

I have some treasured old 78 RPM`s (handed down) of Surayya Multanikar and Mohammed Rafi and one by Ustad Bundoo Khan who can shift your equilibrium by his performance on the Sarangi. I was told his story, when he came to perform as a backing musician for Ustad Amanat and some others (a performance in the mid-1930`s) No one thought much of this small, frail figure, carrying a still smaller, more delicate instrument. But when he began to play, he simply overpowered everyone and took over. His eyes closed, and the sarangi produced a range and harmony of sounds that had the audience stunned. It was said that when Ustad Bundoo Khan played, his Sa-Rangi became a Sau-Rangi! He came to Pakistan, his land of dreams, and lived in LaluKhet til he died. I went to see him there, and saw him with his beloved instrument. He never left it. It was always with him, in his arms, in his eyes.

(As an aside, based on some of the interacts,for those who are interested in Iranian movies - run, walk, drive - somehow get to see ``Drunken horses``, ``Gabeh``, ``Red Balloon``. Each is wonderful, though difficult to take emotionally (especially ``Drunken Horses`` - THAT was hard for me to watch, emotionally speaking.). ``Two Women`` (Do-Zan) is a ferocious, feminist movie - definitely a must see, although a bit skewed in its portrayal. We Pakistanis could learn from the Iranians. The Khomeini revolution has done wonders for the Iranian cultural and movie industry (who would have thought?!). Someone on this thread suggested we freely encourage Indian movies and that we join them. I hope to God we don`t! I can think of few things more embarrassing, more cheap, more vulgar than the Indian movies. What an embarrassment! I do think that the older Indian movies were very good though and I would go along with that.)

War Now and, Forever? rsridhar (#116) ``...Md Ali Jinnah would be a sad man today. All he wanted was a secular, muslim majority county at peace with itself and with India. Look how that country has evolved.``

The evolution has just begun. Come back in five years time and then look at us ...

Jiyaeee Pakistan!