Blessing in Disguise Abrar!

A good article.. but let me point out where ``A leader with guts, gal and moral uprightness`` is emerging from. Any guess !!! Its none other than the so-called religious extremists of MMA.

Its going to be very hard to swallow for the pseudo-liberals around here specially SameerBB and hamedm. But if you look at what has happened after the elections last october, MMA is the only party who is spearheading the fight for saving democratic traditions from meddling of the khaikis (Hubub over LFO in both the lower and upper house is an example). They are the ones reminding us of our lost national dignity and beating drums of ending corruption and bringing prosperity and justice to the common man.

Interested in a more elaborate picture of how this is coming about.. follow the link below, an article in washingtonpost.

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Secular Pakistanis, Upset by War, Turn To Religious Parties
By John Lancaster
Washington Post Foreign Service
Friday, April 4, 2003

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A23254-2003Apr3.html

Husain Haqqani at UC Berkeley REF arjun_m, JAY,

Atleast admit that HH is pointing in the right direction. He has managed to rid himself of the classical hatered for india which prevents pakistanis to think clearly.

I am not sure, ``enlightend`` people like yourselves, representing the educated class of indian can do likewise. Your posts are filled to the brim with hatered and malice and its sickening.

Instead of speculating on HHs survival after such a speech, ponder abt the orgy of massacre of thousands of Indian citizens in gujrat. I wonder, how many perpetrators were apprehended in this connection.

As for beating the drums of infiltration across kashmir, take the blame somewhere else. If the 1 million strong indian army cannot sucessfully seal the kashmir border, then their competence and chewing of exorbitant defence budgets needs reviewing.

Bottomline is, atleast people from pakistan have the courage to point out where the problem lies. I believe, peace in kashmir is vital for progress of both people however, as long as people like yourselves represent the mindset of indian elite its just an exercise of fancy.

Jihad – The Misperceptions Abrar Akbar,

Your`s is probably the most analytically correct article i have read on this forum. Great work at striking the nail on the head. The peice comprehensively summarizes the mentallity responsible for our ills.

To implement this visions of ... ``construction of the Petronas Towers, Kuala Lumpur, not the demolition of the World Trade``, each muslim nation needs a strong intellectual community, guiding the people as well as the governments in the right direction. Unfortunately, this in many Islamic countries is scarce if not non-existant. Whatever intellectually groomed individuals you find in these nations are more inclined towards bashing Islam and what it stands for. Given that they might be right in doing so, because of the blatant bigotry demonstrated by religous right in many such countries.

However, after a dispassionate look at the core issues, one reaches the conclusion that mere importation of western culture, social structure and norms would only lead to further chaos. To support this, we can look at the example of Turkey. The people over there finally got fed up an alien system.. though it took them more than eight decades.

The solution has to be indegenous. While keeping economic, educational, cultural progress as front line objectives ... the Islamic world needs also to preserve its distinct identity and social structure.

Note to sameerJB:

Incompatibility of Islam and progress is a false notion!!!!

Teasing or Torture? Bina !! a good job at bringing out a shadowy problem to light. people often dont like to talk about it but this phenomenon is even more frequent than load shedding.

However, i would like to ask, if you can highlight how this problem can be remedied. I am sure it has nothing to do with education as people from all starta can be found involved in this stuff. I see it stemming from moral decadance of an entire nation! Now how do u remedy that?? i dont think there is a way. ofcourse the onslaugth of cable, internet is also responsible in part to speed up the process.

Mullah`s solution even though simplistic .. may work.. provided that the environment is made conducive for young couples to find sufficient means of sustenance.

I would like to look at it in a more abstract manner. I think all our social problems like jahez, shadi, illiteracy, impoverishment and many more including the one u discussed arise from economic problems. lets hyphothesize here.. if a young boy or girl after recieving a decent education can find a good job.. i think they would be inclined towards getting married to someone of their or their family`s choice. Moreover, better economics is the key to empower the young generation with independence.. this leads to breaking away from the stranglehold of taboos, upheld by their parents.

We have all read and heard a lot about ``aurat ka istehsal`` in our society. That too arise from economic dependence of a female on her father, brother or husband. I think, given a cheaper education system and good economic infrastructure.. more and more girls could see wht they can achieve by putting in some effort. hell!! i would do anything to get a job of 25000 Rs/month.

Keep writing.. i really like your articles, both here and in dawn

M

Thirty-Eight Ref: # 15 LadyAna

Well the lamb came to the slaughter intently. Lets see wht the secularist moderates (or is it the other way around) have in their bags. I hope its a little more potent than wht your kins back home have to offer. I wonder wht the likes of najam sethi, asma jahangir, Cowasjee, ayaz amir r doing besides shivering.. of fear that is... oh I forgot to mention the late Eqbal Ahmed... he must have had some twists and turns ....

as for the secularist moderates.. Is there such an specie among us???????. I would think there are many in the west, but.. they always had all the genres... and why not, they got the blessed touch of mother modernity, contray to us missing her by decades... so only thing left for our SMs (reads secularist moderates) was a deep craving.... poor people had to immitate... however that also requires intellect. so all we r left with r wanna be SMs in a degenerate form.

Is say behtar to hum mullay hee achaay !!!!

Wassalam

Thirty-Eight A nice article. I wonder why you voted for Imran Khan. Was it his charisma as a cricketer or his newly found belief in bringing prosperity to this nation. I would presume its a mix of both. In any case it doesnt matter as he lost big time.

Your dislike for the Islamist MMA is evident. Ironically everybody on chowk have to reassure themselves of there secular leanings, all the time . Nobody is willing to take a dispassionate look at what the Islamist have to offer. If you ever read this post, your first reaction would be! duh Islamist = bin laden. Well in that case your naivette has no bound.

My dear lady, fortunately, you and your kind are a minority in Pakistan. People of this country have always wanted a theocracy except for the priviliged few who have nothing better to do than to ape the west. I am afraid the secularist have to live with this Islamic Shadow for many years to come.

Yeh Mulk bana tha Islami .... Yeh mulk rahay ga Islami

Wassalam

Bitter, Not Sweet Romair # 13...

I dont disagree with much of your criticism on sameerJB`s post. People who feel that their articulation skills give them the right to cirticise whatever they like can only be put in the category of educated bigots. Plus it is more than valid that a person who has done something to try solve a problem has the right to be its critic. I dont believe that he or anyone of his ilk have even raised a finger to help anyone except their own ........

however, you repeatedly try to acquit the pak army from the ills inflicted on pakistan. An f-16 pilot or a soldier manning his post may not be indicted. But the policies pursued by the army brass have brought nothing but problems for Pakistan. I dont need to reiterate our army`s conduct for the past 50 years. Their crimes are very well known. They have turned pakistan from an state with an army to an army with a state... practially the definition of a banana republic. Whenever the generals have tried to take matters into their own hand, it has back fired onto them. But they never seem to quit making the same mistakes again and again. The army should stick to its job of protecting the country from any aggressor and let the politicians do their job of running the country. Its a very simple matter.

It must refrain from trying to use its military wisdom to solve a nations problem. It will never work.. never has..

Bitter, Not Sweet Ref # 4.. sameerJB

I cant think of one reason, why you always have to bring Islam and muslims in the mess that politicians create. That verse from Iqbal is not meant for zia ul haq or for that matter musharraf. It represents and ideal human bieng according to a faith, that u happen to resent. Islam has been abused by all who have lived in pakistan for 50 years. The leaders have used it to satiate their hunger to play king makers and wht not and the public has used it to vent its fury of despair. Bigorty, intolerence and self righteousness are symptoms of a disease called ``collective frustration``. They have acquired the name of Islam in pakistan.

In your blind appreciation of all that is western, you easily forget that Islam and its empires have provided a stable mode of goverence and social structure to the people of this world for centuries.

Only thing wrong with this era is that muslims never had a chance to evolve to accept challanges of modernity. And that is only because of constant meddelling of those western powers in their affairs since the world war. Why dont they just leave the miserable people of this religion alone. They have installed, nourished and supported the most tyrinical and oppressive regimes in these countries for more than half a century.
(The big bogey man, Osama bin ladin.... was brought into the lime light... none other than the CIA during the afghan war. Saddam was SUPPLIED and encouraged to use chemical weapons in its eight year war against Iran.)

Yes, Imperialism, profanity, decadence, pornography, alcohol, pork, .... are denounced by anything Islamic and for good reasons. I dont believe that any civilization needs the above as its corner stones. (these might be your personal predilictions!!)

As for liberalism, western culture, godless science.... they can be viewed in an skeptical light and can be assimilated to some extent into an Islamic society. But such a transition would take a long time to come about. Specially with people like.. arafat, mubarak, musharraf, various kings of the arab world.. choking the very life out of their subjects.

Were We Too Hijacked by 9/11? Dr. hoodbhoy,

Your analysis on US turning into an imperial power is under-estimating. The US was always been an imperial power, it had just put on a veneer as ``protector of the free world`` after the second world war. In wake of september 11th, its shedding its more civilized skin and saddeling into the traditional role of an expansive empire, just like the one that britain or france played during the colonial era.

However, to expect a ``humane`` and ``just`` behavior from an ``empire`` is wishful thinking or may even be futile. The US has earned its place as a super power and nobody can challenge its exercising those powers to preserve or expand its interests.

If the rest of the world is raking over coals for what the US has been doing, its like begging for compassion from a predator. Only way to keep it at bay is to grow horns or what ever. The crux of the story is, if you want to live as an independent and respectable nation in this world, you have to become stronger, both militarily and economically.

However belligerent it may sound but the americans enjoy peaceful lives in their homeland only because of the might of their nation.

Organized Irrelevance Mr Haroon, a very good job at articulating the impotence of OIC. But your conclusion to push for a meaningful organization stands in question. Given the fact that it would most certainly be another inter-governmental institution, i fail to see how would it be any better than the current one.
Moreover, why would the people have any say in determining the goals that you stated. I dont think, the common man in Islamdom, has the strength or the inclination to pursue such noble objectives.

The problem lies within. The real demon haunting the Islamic world is within itself. I dont think threats like Israel, India or western hegemony can even come close to the oppressive and incompetent regimes ruling these nations.

Muslim world unfortunately, was sitting on the sidelines when the west was going through its painful phase of Modernistic maturity and it gave up a lot of blood to achieve this. I dont think Muslims can achieve the same so easily.

ISNA 39th Annual Conference Ref Reply #2 SameerJB

I couldnt seem to figure out where your animosity was directed. Towards the conference, the community or to the religion. I guess it must be all three. The alternatives to attending the conference as u described were spending the money on vacations or charity. I would assume that the people who attended the conference had the same objectives in mind. I am sure you completely failed to see that.

As for your last comments OIC and ICNA, i would recommend that you take these ideas to the ``world leaders``.. they would be more eager to listen to your insecurities arising from a deeply ingrained inferiority complex.

I can understand your liking for western norms, ideals and social practices, however deriving a stronger sense of association with it, by demeaning another community and its habbits doesnt suit any civilized individual.

The Ruined Breakfast Celebrating another one of general`s ``victories``!!!! Well i am sure there are many more to come so dont get toooo enthusiastic abt it. we can expect nothing less from the pak army but a series of never ending victories.

the gullible pakistani public had to again bear the torture of going through a mock referrendum. and why not, the general articulates his successes on the national front very elegantly.

He is going to bring progress and moderation as opposed to extremism. but if my memory serves right, wasnt it the army that injected this virus in our national main stream in the first place.

Ah, i almost forgot, the greatest diplomatic achievement in history i.e. the alignment with the west in its war against terror. It needed a certain ingenuity to come to this decision, which only the general and his cronies possessed.. not to mention the gimmick of completely erasing from history the cultivating factor of the taliban... i.e. king making spirit of the great army....

our history is tarnished with such great victories. Some on the way might be the re-instatement of MQM (still unmatched in its terror tactics.. second only to bin ladin). a cheap deal with left overs of peoples party and nawaz group and then we will all be back in business... i.e maintaining the status quo.

I am sure we as a nation have a great future.. with the GREAT ARMY looking after our well being.

We, The Muslim Americans A very well written article reflecting the aspirations and difficulties of a growing muslim community in the united states. However, the subtle distinction between the overall american system within the US and its influence abroad also needs to be understood.

The term Islamic Terrorism has become so un tangibly coupled with Islam and Muslims that even a mild and justified criticism on American Foreign policy may invite the wrath of american security agencies. From the American standpoint this hysteria might be justified as they have suffered extremely at the hands of so called Islamic Fundamentalists. But the essential problem of a biased and un justified foriegn policy that needs no re-iteration, still remains.

The american muslims must prove from their actions that they are a freedom loving and humane part of this great society. However as the time progresses, it is also vital for them to point out the fatal flaws in the american policy and the mindset of its makers. This can be done in any form or shape that is permitted by the constitution of this country. But the effective expression of this point would go a long way for the betterment of lives of our fellow countrymen back home and would give a more meaningful definition to our Islamic Identity.

The Wages of Obedience The article is well written and addresses the contrast in viewpoints that emerged after the attacks of september 11th. However, the author only suffices to criticize some political analysts for their hawkish attitude both pre and post 9/11. It would be worth while to indicate that such analysts are/were merely pawns of the establishment that hires them to sooth public opinion in favour of its policies.

Since the invasion of Afghanistan in 1979, the Pakistani people have been indulged in a fantasy that the nation is capable of playing a Pan Islamic Evangilical role on the world scene. Although there can be reasons to argue in favour of such a role but it would be heavily depenedent on the resources available and the influence the nation can exercise by cashing on its strategic expedience. But most importantly the sucess would rest upon how skillfully this task is administered.

The faliure of the strategy pundits to do the same has resulted in the eventual abandonment of their beloved (& severly expensive) Afghan and Kashmir Policy.



The policy towards taliban was extremely futile and rigid, with short sighted goals. All regional states considered Taliban as a threat to the stability of the region and even to their own soverignity. In course of its support for the Taliban, Pakistan ended up in a quagmire of severe isolation and lost all avenues of coorporation with the central asian republics, Iran and Turkey. The policy was so audacious, that even our so called best friend China had to distance itself from the whole affair. No wonder the people of Afghanistan have deep rooted hatred for us.

The objective behind the taliban policy was based on the premise of secure western border. There were ambitious plans of building oil pipelines from the central asain states through afghanistan to the port of karachi. But as we all witnessed the events from 1991-2000, Pakistan lost all its peripheral strategic objective in its blind persuit of supporting a so called friendly regime in Afghanistan. Moreover, the wounds that the taliban inflicted on the poeple of Afghanistan has left a shadow of guilt in our national psyche. The Jehadis were another by product of this adventure, whom the ISI nurtured for carrying out similarly futile endevours in kashmir plus exporting this culture to other states.

In the aftermath of 9/11, General Musharraf was seen tirelessly chanting the mantra of a broad based government in Afghanistan and explaining how a regime baised towards one faction would be severly dangerous.

Ironically, he and his predecessors followed exactly the opposite course for 10 years as bieng proponents of the bloody and pushtoon majortiy taliban. The intolerence exhibited by taliban towards minorities and their denial of a peaceful solution to their conflicts with opposing factions only led to a ten year civil war inflicting untold misery on the population.

May be the general was warning that since he got his hands burnt playing with fire, others should follow a wiser course. The radical turn around on afghan policy that was forced and not a contemplated decision does not aquit the establishment and army of Pakistan of its crimes.

It was astonishingly shameful how easily the mullahs were declared the prime culprits for all our ills. I am unable to imagine the extent to which the people even as naive as us can be bluffed. Now the whole nation has in its heart a warm feeling abt the policies of musharraf regime. They have just turned a blind eye to the fact that it was the army and its rowdy agencies who brought us to such a dismal state. I would go as far as saying that this ``king maker`` syndrome has left stains of innocent and poor afghan blood on our hands.

Even shameful and humiliating is to see our heroic president as being declared a courageous and principled man by his newly found allies.