Citizenship and Identity in Pakistan manto, interesting article. discussion is very informative too. constitution is supposed to be supreme book of law in a nation. when with in this book another book is placed as higher and guiding, consitution book loses most of its power. as you observed if interpretors treat this intrusion by the other book only as respect for tradition or culture (lifazi) then fine and dandy but that can not be guaranteed for the long run. No matter how enlightened a nation, once in a while it will get a generation of people who would concentrate on that reference and interpret it differently and literally. Reference of Quran in Pakistani constitution is one example of that. others are ``pakistan was made for Islam``, ``Pakistan islam ka qilla hai``, ``ummah is higher than nation``...all these phrases might be great motivators for people at times to unite and work for building their lives in down times but along the line someone will come who will try to give them inzaam in literal sense.

I also noticed it took one post #33 to derail your train of thought in this thread...don`t let that happen to you. In my view there is no need for you to win that argument. let time take care of that.
well wisher.db

Militant Liberalism haaji,
pah`ji,
na tusiN mullaN na tusi qazi.
phir kiyoN ghazi waazi?

apnay mann wich mail na rakho
dil nu rakho raazi
je jittni tusi baazi, pah`ji

mullaNgiri vi maaRhi ay ji
maaRhi firkaybaazi
nafrat deh nu roagi kardi
rooH na rehndi taazi


gall karo koi saaz`ee (one in tune)
aakhanwala vi khush howey
sun`na wala vi raazi
aakhay wah ji wah ji

Bulleh shah de murshid ban jao
kiyoN ban`day O ghaazi, nazi
keh gaye Bulleh Shah ji
haaji, pah`ji.

Fake Killings: People as Trophies extra judicial killing, torture, abductions by police is a bad thing for any country for the long term and for the short term. I can`t believe it still goes on India...good thing is atleast there is public noise that will rein the police or at least make them think twice next time. It is also a very complex issue and may not necessarily be motivated by politics or secterian fanaticism...at the basic level it is mis-use of power by the police. A clerk in the office misuses his office to change the priorities of applications, teacher favors one student over the other, a policeman uses his gun to silense someone for whatever reasons. it is hard to save what motivated this killing or whether the guy was a bad guy (what if he was. does not deserve to be killed..unless this is the new law to kill bad guys by police)...on the other hand since it happens so often ..what is the big deal?

Fake Killings: People as Trophies extra judicial killing, torture, abductions by police is a bad thing for any country for the long term and for the short term. I can`t believe it still goes on India...good thing is atleast there is public noise that will rein the police or at least make them think twice next time. It is also a very complex issue and may not necessarily be motivated by politics or secterian fanaticism...at the basic level it is mis-use of power by the police. A clerk in the office misuses his office to change the priorities of applications, teacher favors one student over the other, a policeman uses his gun to silense someone for whatever reasons. it is hard to save what motivated this killing or whether the guy was a bad guy (what if he was. does not deserve to be killed..unless this is the new law to kill bad guys by police)...on the other hand since it happens so often ..what is the big deal?

Burqa Vaganza – A Satirical Backlash #332 Thanks Zeemax. My urdu reading skills are not that great but it does seem to say that in the last 2 sentences of the text. Is it a calcualted idealogical point he is making or regular muslim habbit of bringing allah and Islam into to the argument to make, whatever point it is being made, unrefutable? if it calculated point of principle put forward by teh CJ then you are correct. but my feeling is it was a figure of speech.

Militant Liberalism writer seems to be going through a serious crisis. dude nothing is going to happen. Pakistan is there to stay so calm down. just because some idiot is brainstorming in the state department does not mean his idea is feasible.
yes fanaticism is a problem but it is not end of the world. fanaticism is up in the world on average in last many years..I think people are fearful of losing what they have..idenities, religion, culture, language, money, power.

Icarus and The Filmmaker eh ki si?
story?
resume?
fundraising plea?
charity plea?
bragging?
autobiography?

par you are my ``mammer bhra``..so good luck with your hobby. May it save you some money for retirement.:-)

Burqa Vaganza – A Satirical Backlash #194 DM ji, I think it is the religious types and mullahs who are hypocrites in this respect. they don`t truly believe in the rule of the people, by the people...they want the rule of god and they have the rule book in their pockets BUT they pretend to participate in democracy to grab the power and then change the system. They have no intent to keep democracy once they have absolute power. some of them might be using religous sloganeering only to create political opportunities for themselves..which can be excused (as is the case with neocons, BJP types and Muslim leaguers etc) but most of them are hypcrites who pretend to participate in the system to end the system.

Burqa Vaganza – A Satirical Backlash can someone please post text of CJ`s speech in Lahore? or atleast confirm whether the sentence that Zeemax quoted was indeed spoken by him?

Reflections on the Virginia Tech School Tragedy duniyaN bhar de sharabiyO, ikk ho jao
duniyaN bhar de jihadiyO, pahjjO

Reflections on the Virginia Tech School Tragedy hamidm sahib would love this news....today is too late but tomorrow I promise to have my weekly pegg of wine to celebrate this.

``According to Daily Pakistan, a famous khatib of Jamia Faridia Ahle Hadith, Kasur, Maulana Barakullah, was invited to a house and his one foot long beard, moustashe and eyebrows were shaved at gun point. The culprits who sold liquor suspected him of providing information to the police. The amir and senator of Jamiat Ahle Hadith Pir Sajid Mir and other ulema were furious and wanted strict punishment for the culprits. Police arrested three culprits while the others are still at large.``
:-)

Reflections on the Virginia Tech School Tragedy Bulleya, happiest are the people who follow their hearts and at the end of the journey find out that their hearts were indeed in the right place and in right direction. Let me offer you best wishes that you find out 2 decades from now that your heart was on the right path. That is all that will matter.

In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth ``why don`t burgers evolve into growing teeth by themselves and start eating people.``

---

leave a billion burgers in a pile for about a billion years..provide enough water and sun light to the pile and then we will see if (something grows out of ) burgers (that) have teeth or not.:)

you gave God billions of years but want burgers to eat man in Mr Mcdonald`s life time?:-)

BTW one could agrue than many a man have been eaten by burgers already....remember that...
botlay sharab diye dass ni kameeniye,
main tainupeena aaN ke toon mainu peeni aiN?;)

Understanding the Death Fatwa on Taslima Nasreen samar, remember I am talking about being fair or unfair in legal matters like right to property, right to life, right to practice one`s religion peacefully and responsibilities to follow the laws and pay the taxes.....killing, systematic pogroms, interference in religious matters of others etc falls outside of that fair unfair scale....in a liberal democracy that does not happen. Indian democracy is not iberal yet and have many miles to go before it matures as one.

Understanding the Death Fatwa on Taslima Nasreen you guys are being unreasonable to demcoracy.
suppose kaalchakra`s skin color on scale 1 to 10 (1 is white 10 is black) is at 2. would you consider him black or white? if you consider him black it is incorrect. but if you consider him white, that is not correct either. but considering him white is more correct than considering him black. correct thing would be to say he is not black.

say certain law is fair to 95% of the people but very unfair to 5% (although it does not kill them)...would you call it an unfair law? that would be unfair to call such a law unfair in general when it is fair to 95% of the population most of the time...also the 5% that is getting unfavorable treatment under this law might get favorable on under some other law dealing with a different issue but in the same system.

liberal democracy is fair to 80% of the people most of the time....unfair to 20% of the people sometimes but it is never unfair to 100% of the people all the time.

it is very unfair that I get gasoline at most expensive price in USA but it is also very unfair that although I pay same federal taxes as people in chicago, I got never see snow or humidity like they do.:-) (that is unfair to peopel in chicago)

Understanding the Death Fatwa on Taslima Nasreen you guys are being unreasonable to demcoracy.
suppose kaalchakra`s skin color on scale 1 to 10 (1 is white 10 is black) is at 2. would you consider him black or white? if you consider him black it is incorrect. but if you consider him white, that is not correct either. but considering him white is more correct than considering him black. correct thing would be to say he is not black.

say certain law is fair to 95% of the people but very unfair to 5% (although it does not kill them)...would you call it an unfair law? that would be unfair to call such a law unfair in general when it is fair to 95% of the population most of the time...also the 5% that is getting unfavorable treatment under this law might get favorable on under some other law dealing with a different issue but in the same system.

liberal democracy is fair to 80% of the people most of the time....unfair to 20% of the people sometimes but it is never unfair to 100% of the people all the time.

it is very unfair that I get gasoline at most expensive price in USA but it is also very unfair that although I pay same federal taxes as people in chicago, I got never see snow or humidity like they do.:-) (that is unfair to peopel in chicago)