Action To Support Displaced Community in Gujrat ref: Karakoram #158

Mullah Omar, as Hanumanji! Never! After all, no Hanuman could have done what the Mullah did to the Bamiyan Buddha (the 10th incarnation of Vishnu), being devoted as he was to Rama, Vishnu the 8th. In any case, if every person with the mind of a monkey was Hanuman, how many hanuman`s could there be?

REf: ali1 #160

Yes, the barbequeing culture has stormed India. In Punjab, Kashmir, Gujarat, Delhi, Bombay, Godhra etc. people have taken to it in a big way, roasting and filleting their neighbours with gusto. There was even a case in Delhi, a few years back, of a husband making tandoori drumsticks of his wife!

...As for me, I just wish we could all go back to our traditional vegetarianism.

-narain

Action To Support Displaced Community in Gujrat ref: Sridhar #116

On the inclusiveness of Hinduism, here`s a true story. My friend came to the US for higher studies, and found company with a bunch of Pakistani undergrads. One of them persuaded her to attend a meeting on Islam. After the meeting she was introduced to the secretary of the association, who on finding out that she was a Hindu, promptly gave her a copy of the holy Quran. ``The only thing is,`` he said, ``you have to keep the book in a high and clean place``. ``Of course``, said my friend, quite innocently, ``I`ll keep it in my Puja with all the Gods``. Needless to say the Quran was snatched out of her hands, and she was uninvited from all future meetings.

But I sometimes wonder....what if the Prophet (PBUH) was actually the 11th incarnation of Vishnu? :)

-narain

The April Fool Referendum So Gen Mushurraf is the man chosen to bring true democracy to Pakistan. Well, isn`t he the one who justifies his holding power for the next 5 years to a referendum he himself admitted was fraught with irregularities? The people may not have spoken, and he was sorry but he had to go ahead and rule in any case.

Wasn`t he the one who decided to make large scale changes in the constitution, and asked the people what they thought about it? It was sad that they came out against these changes, but he had to go ahead and make them in any case.

Now he has asked the people to go ahead and vote their representatives in the new, improved real democracy. However he is sad, but they will not be allowed to alter the way he rules the nation.

Viva real democracy!!

Long live the savior of Pakistan!!

-narain

The Right To Bigotry I don`t have an opposing view. Indeed I feel that curtailing freedom of expression might be a good short term solution sometimes. My amazement however derives from the fact that the newspapers were obviously delivering something which their bloodthirsty audience wanted.

So what has introduced so much poison into Gujrati (maybe Indian?) society? And if it is not possible to fool all the people all the time, how come this poison has survived for so long? Does this mean that there are real issues involved which we dare not address?

And where do we go from here? If we are a democracy, should we let people really express thier views, knowing that these will destroy secular society as we know it? Or should we, like our freedom of expression, curtail democracy for a while?

-narain

Sex is Bad In terms of writing style, this article would be more suited to a porn magazine (``True Confessions of a Mosque-goer``). It is fun to read about teen anguish and sexual frustration though...always very entertaining!

-narain

Worldwide India-Pakistan peace movement begins? War is never an option, especially not in South Asia. However I feel that peace will be established between Pakistan and India only when a civilian govt. takes genuine control over the destiny of Pakistan, and its army scales back its objective to just defending the nation`s borders.

-narain

Of Evil Zionists and the Great Satan ref: Ferozek #133

Dear Feroze,

Even if one agrees that Musharraf is the greatest thing to ever happen to Pakistan, it may be good to remember that he will not last forever, but the system he is creating will. Thus arguments for or against his proposed constitutional amendments should be based on how well they will secure the people`s democratic rights and sovereignity, if for eg. Zia or Ayub rose from the grave and became President.

In any case, the army has already sown the seeds of discontent and discord in Pakistan for many years to come. What remains to be seen is only how bad things will actually get.

-narain

Of Evil Zionists and the Great Satan Just a thought: Isn`t it better to have democratic dictatorships (a la Sharif)? They at least have the advantage of being removable after 5 years. Its own dictatorship, that the army is pushing through in Pakistan, is designed to be pretty much permanent.

I think the general consensus is that the army has been the major player, directly or indirectly, in running Pakistan since its independence. In that time Pakistan has gone through three (and a half?) wars, lost half its territory, had all its institutions destroyed, its economy laid low, witnessed rising poverty, illiteracy and worsening human development indices, and is now facing a growing crisis of governance. How does its previous track record commend the army`s desire to have a permanent say in running Pakistan?

-narain

-narain

Shadowlines (Part I) It may be of some interest to the people who post here that the two nation theory was not originated by Mr Jinnah, but by Veer Savarkar. He wrote that all Hindus, Sikhs, Jains and Buddhists constituted one Indian nation since their religion originated in India, and was rooted in Indian culture. Islam and Christianity came from ``outside``, and thus muslims and christians were either minorities or communities living in India, but not part of the Indian nation.

Mr. Savarkar also happens to be the man who coined the term ``Hindutva``.

-narain

Kashmir Fatigue I was watching a Pakistani program recently and at the end the announcer said goodbye, and then ``Pakistan Paiyindabad!`` (or something like that). What does that mean, and what happened to good old ``Pakistan Zindabad``?

-narain

Dissing Ideologies ref: Dost-Mittar #437

No, I do not understand Hobbyty`s contention. He may however be alluding to the argument that the only way India will accept the Hurriyet as a ligitimate bargaining partner is if it performs well in state elections, while the Hurriyet cannot participate in said elections because it does not recognize the constitution of India under which these elections will be held.

However the situation seems to be that the Indian govt. has been holding parleys with elements of the Hurriyet and others to persuade them to participate in the upcoming elections. If this happens then the elements which choose to boycott the elections may soon find themselves irrelevant. On the other hand, if the hurriyet prevails and their boycott is successful, the Indian govt. may find themselves in a quandry. That is probably why Mr Lone had to go, and also why Shabbir Shah may be so important. In either case, whether it participates in the elections or not, the strength of the Hurriyet will become apparent after the upcoming elections.

-narain

PS: I actually meant the people of (Indian) J&K, and not all Kashmiris when I talked about the Hurriyet`s strength.

Dissing Ideologies Ref: Hobbyty 408

Lord Avebury is a British Parliamentarian who has taken an acive interest in the Kashmir issue for quite a few years. He is not known to be close to India on this issue. Indeed he has in the past made strongly critical statements about India`s conduct there, while being a guest of the Pakistani government.

I agree with you that every survey needs to be interpreted with some caution. You are also right in saying that a final judgment on its conlusions should be taken only after a fuller analysis of its methodology. My comment was only that I would trust an established company like MORI to have done due diligence before publishing its results, and avoided the usual, major shortcomings. I would also think that its professional integrity would have prevented it from deliberately biasing the results, so we can rule out mala fide in bringing out the results. In any case, this survey represents a first comprehensive look into the minds of the people of J&K, an input which had been missing in all discussion till now.

I am not sure what your point is about the Hurriyet. Firstly, on what basis do you conclude that the Hurriyet is the leading party in Indian Kashmir? As you well know from your own country`s experience with religious parties, that street power and the ability to make noise need not reflect electoral popularity. In the second instance how is people`s lack of faith in the established parties a reflection of their being ``captive``? That position would make any sense only if one assumes that the Indian govt. coerced people into making these statements or oterwise biased the results of the survey towards this result, circumstances for which there is no evidence. It may be that the majority is tired of the Hurriyet`s separatist and violent agenda, and the corruption or ineffectiveness of the other established parties and wants something new.

(My meaner nature compels me to take a swipe now: I have read that the MQM was created, supported and brought to power by the Pakistani army to counter the much more popular PPP in Sindh. To quote you then ``If we are take this as valid, are we wrong in asserting ``Captive Sindh``? Are we wrong in asserting ``occupation forces``? To be fair, I think , a response to this question is that it is not ``entirely`` unfair.`` :)

Your point about what ``democratic elections`` might mean to respondents is a good one. The answer to that might have to wait till someone decides to actually purchase the full survey, and read how the question was framed.

However I do wish to point out that the motivations of holding an election now are very different from Mrs Gandhi`s objectives in 1987, the rigged election which apparently triggered the unrest in Kashmir. Then Mrs Gandhi wanted a compliant and subservient government in J&K, much like she wanted them elsewhere. In the current elections however, the objective is to show the world that the Kashmiris are not ``captive``, and that they have the right to have their say. So even by that token, the elections are likely to be free and fair.

...and even the Hurriyet leaders currently in jail can contest in the elections. If they are that popular, this should not prove a problem to them. What I do find disturbing however is your criterion for a free and fair election: that the Hurriyet must win. AS I asked before, what is the basis for your conviction that the Hurriyet is the only party which represents the wishes of the people of J&K?

AS for the fact that no Hindus die in encounters of in custody, that is easily explained by the fact that the separatist movement remains largely confined to the heavily muslim Kashmir valley, and is almost completely muslim in composition. Since the terrorists are muslim, and the human shields that they use are also muslim, it is not surprising that muslims constitute the majority of casualities. To conclude from this that some people have more access to life and liberty than others is flawed. A final verdict on that will have to wait till the violence ends.

As for Kashmir entering the Indian union, this happened after a relatively long drawn process involving the creation of a Kashmiri constituent assembly headed by Sheik Abdullah and negotiations between him and the Indian government. It was this assembly which permanently and irevocably made Kashmir a part of India. The consitution of India still maintains a separate place for J&K, and gives it much more autonomy than granted to any other state in the Inidan union.

-narain

Kashmir Fatigue ref: Romair #26

Dear Romair,

I think you have not got the whole picture when you say that foreign observers will not be allowed to witness the election process in J&K. Please read the Election Commission`s comments in their entirety.

``Part of the strategy is to allow all diplomats stationed in the capital, except those from the Pakistan High Commission, access to the Valley and other parts of the state during the elections.

Similarly, the foreign media (again, except for journalists from Pakistan), which has been free to travel in Kashmir for some years now, will have unhindered access to reporting on the elections.

The catch, however, is that these diplomats and media will not be allowed to flaunt their pretended or real status of being ‘‘election observers’’ for any foreign organisation or country. They can freely travel within Kashmir as individuals, the sources said.``

http://www.indian-express.com/full_story.php?content_id=4556

Kashmir Fatigue Dear Mr Kafir K Khan,

Thanks for your lesson on why it is okay to uproot and massacre an entire people because you think they were exploiters. Maybe some one in the RSS will write to thank you for justifying Gujarat.

...also congratulations on 9/11. A real victory for the oppressed, wasn`t it?

-narain

Dissing Ideologies ref: Hobbyty #390

I think the methodology sounds reasonable. If it does not correspond to what you think is right, it at least has the advantage of being in the open. (I am not sure how you got information on the age spread though?) In any case, MORI being a recognized market research company, I would place my credence in its professionalism in certifying the survey results, irrespective of who commissioned the study and who MORI chose to carry it out.

It is true that there is a significant difference of opinion among the valley and Jammu, but there is also considerable opposition, it seems, to partitioning the state. I am not sure, therefore, on what basis you conclude that a religion-based division would be acceptable to the populace?

As far as democratic elections are concerned, it is true that the support for them is not as strong in the valley as it is Jammu and Leh. But still a simple majority (52%) does support them. That is a very good base to work upon.

You put ``democratic elections`` in quotation marks from which I infer that you find it doubtful that India would allow genuinely free and fair elections in the state. However the past is an inadequate indicator of future behavior, especially when one`s fingers were burnt before. In any case it would be wrong to condemn India as guilty before India has even had a chance to act. Also this time round, the eyes of the whole world are on the elections in Kashmir: figuratively and literally. The Indian govt. has decided to give free access to foreign observers and the foreign media to view the election process (without conceding them any official status) (more at: http://www.indian-express.com/full_story.php?content_id=4556)

As for the Indian army being an occupation force, this is a strange occupation indeed where the ``occupied`` have the same rights and even more priveleges than their captors, and where the captors are pushing for the Kashmiris to use these rights! At the same time the fact that the Kashmiris were able to obtain a very favorable dispensation for themselves from the Indian state at the time of accession, seems to point to a process of political give-and-take. This may indicate that the accession was not wholly involuntary. The help given to the Indian army by the local populace in the failed Pakistani aggression of `65 would also indicate a population not wholly alienated from India. The term ``occupation`` therefore seems a little far-fetched.

-narain

Dissing Ideologies Ref: Tahmed #372

Dear Tahmed,

First of all I was only quoting the MORI poll. I myself do not claim any spiritual or empathetic powers to be able to reach a judgement about whether the people of J&K are happy or not in India. However, I do find this poll a more convincing reflection of the popular mood than the assertion that because a gang of gun-toting (largely non indigenous (ref. BBC))militants exist and can throw their weight around, they reflect the wishes of the majority.

Secondly, just because some part of India is happy with being Indian is no reason to hold a plebscite. If this were so, we would be holding plebscites in UP tomorrow and Tamil Nadu day after. Now you may dispute Kashmir being ``some part of India``, but most Indian don`t. In light of the ratification of accession by an elected Kashmiri parliament, and the participation of the state in national affair and elections for 40 years (till 1990), The issue is considered settled and we do not see any need to hold a plebscite now. Maybe these reasons are not enough to convince you, but that is not India`s prime concern.

On the issue of oppression in kashmir, which is correctly everyone`s concern, may I note that the people of J&K have the same rights as any other Indian citizen. In particular they are free to elect representatives who can express their opinions for them. They will get this chance in October this year. If you are worried about the fairness of the elections, please do drop in. It seems foreigners will be given free access to see the election process. These representatives can then negotiate with the Indian government for an amicable solution. In my opinion giving this opportunity is not characteristic of an ``oppressor`` nation, nor do ``oppressed`` people usually get a chance to have their say.

I guess what I am trying to say is that India feels that J&K is part of it, and will never willingly give it up. Pakistan cannot make us do it. The Kashmiris can, but India is betting that once it atones for its past sins and gives the people the rights and privileges that they are guaranteed under the (Indian) constitution, they will not want to. The world seems happy enough with the status quo, especially if India can make the Kashmiris go along with it (but in all probability stopping the instability will be enough for it). If India still talks about a Kashmir dispute, it is only to keep Pakistan engaged. For it, Kashmir is a dispute only in the sense that the de facto settlement has not been given legal cover. Call this hypocrisy or whatever, it is a fact.

I hope I have complied with your wish not to be wishy-washy in my answer.

regards,

narain